Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECIDE
#10323
03/08/04 03:57 PM
03/08/04 03:57 PM
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good answer, but rough rod forgings don't have much extra mass in them. the outer surface you see on the H beam is about the same as what you end up with even after the rest of the machining is done. the final machine process is what really makes the difference in the end anyway.
plum, what do you want? if i posted about failure rates from my own experience, it would be worthless to anyone except me, and ridiculed by some as well. many peoples experiences are based on 1 or 2 engine builds or by the friends they know. my experience has been from over 30 years (whoopty do LOL) building at least 50-70 motors a year. i've said over and over which rods i prefer, and the reasons for my choice. i don't expect anyone to agree with my opinion, or my findings, but if they do, thats great. of course, if they don't, i probably won't change their mind and thats okay too.
all of the rods above are good rods, some are better than the others. if the final machining on those rods was equal, it would make my choice harder on which ones to use by just a tiny bit.
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Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECIDE
#10324
03/08/04 04:02 PM
03/08/04 04:02 PM
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Thanks Dan. And I must agree with one thing.. Considering my next crank is going to be $1300, a couple hundred more for what an experienced builder deems the better rod is chump change!
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Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECID
#10326
03/08/04 04:36 PM
03/08/04 04:36 PM
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patrick
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I see the manley's needing a lot less block clearancing on strokers compared to the eagles and especially the cats (:
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECIDE
[Re: JohnRR]
#10327
03/08/04 04:38 PM
03/08/04 04:38 PM
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ZIPPY
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The Manleys were my first set of aftermarket rods, and I thought they were pretty darned nice for the money. Of course all the small ends had to be honed, but that was expected. The big ends were dead nuts, and needed no work. I put them in and was happy...
Then a couple months later I saw my first set of Eagle rods in person, and I thought "well they're kind of the same basic shape, but they sure are alot uglier."
Not very technical, and I doubt I'm making enough power to break any of them...but it's comforting to know I got the right ones to begin with. One less thing to mess around with later! Thanks for the pics, Dan.
Rich
Rich H.
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Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECIDE
[Re: ZIPPY]
#10328
03/08/04 04:58 PM
03/08/04 04:58 PM
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Quote:
The Manleys were my first set of aftermarket rods, and I thought they were pretty darned nice for the money. Of course all the small ends had to be honed, but that was expected. The big ends were dead nuts, and needed no work. I put them in and was happy...
that's a pretty commom scenario with the small ends. in past years i've noticed that wrist pins can sometimes have a pretty wide variance in actual O.D. the pins we used in the enginemasters, which came from venolia showed an overall difference of .0006" thats why once a pin/piston/rod combo is clearanced they should all be kept together IMO. i also belive the trend in the industry is to leave the small ends a few tenths small to allow for proper fitting. different applications will need different clearance.
it's a rare occasion that i have to touch up a set of manley rods. the eagles by far have been the worst. the cats are hit and miss. i have a set i just checked and the big ends were within spec, barely. i've had very good luck with the scat rods as well. checking rods is the same as checking crankshafts, if you don't have the right equipment to do it, forget it. a dial bore gauge or an inside mic is not adequate. the sunnen (or equvelent) fixture is the only way to go IMO. anything else is too error prone for two reasons, user error is one, secondly, the accuracy of the instrument. i hope this thread helps to enlighten or educate in one way or another.
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Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECIDE
[Re: CHRYCOFAN]
#10330
03/09/04 06:03 AM
03/09/04 06:03 AM
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good decision on your part IMO.
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Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECIDE
#10331
03/09/04 07:34 AM
03/09/04 07:34 AM
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LA360
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Thanks for taking the time to do this post Dan. I have had Eagle, Scat and CAT H beams in my hot little hands before. The Eagle's were a little rough for my liking, but I bought a set anyway, it was what was available to me at the time. I have since sold them anyway. I liked the look of the Cat rods, the cutout along the beam is much cleaner than the Eagle's. I cannot honestly say anything regarding the Scat's , my engine builder had problem's with their sizing a few years ago, and has since steered away from them. I think he has started to order them in again. From the pics, if I was to buy any of the three, the Manley's look the best. When the Scat's arrive, I would be keen to see what they look like. Thanks again Dan, AL...
Alan Jones
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Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECIDE
#10332
03/09/04 10:52 AM
03/09/04 10:52 AM
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440Jim
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Very good post. I am a numbers guy, so could you give nomimal measurements of the dimensions in my attachement? ie. E1, E2, C1, C2, M1, M2? Also, is the beam the same size in the other direction?
It appears that the Manley rod (right) has the outer part of the bolt area machined straight, while the CAT (center) is tapered toward the total width, is that right?
Do all these use the same bolt length? It appears that the part the bolt threads into are different lengths. Is that right?
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Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECIDE
[Re: 440Jim]
#10333
03/09/04 11:03 AM
03/09/04 11:03 AM
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E2= .098" C2= .089 M2= .080
I'll have to remeasure the other area's. i won't trust my memory on those, LOL. i'll post back when i get them.
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Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECIDE
[Re: 440Jim]
#10335
03/09/04 12:47 PM
03/09/04 12:47 PM
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Molloy
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I've heard several of you mention the differences in surface quality between the rod manufacturers. Since cracks and failures often initiate from a surface flaw, like a nick, divit, or pit, then the surface quality should be a seriously considered as well, shouldn't it?
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Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECIDE
[Re: 440Jim]
#10336
03/09/04 01:56 PM
03/09/04 01:56 PM
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i agree that sometimes extra weight is just that and nothing more. a perfect example would be to take a look at an oliver rod. they keep the weight down but those rods can handle 1400 hp without even breaking a sweat.
surface finish is more important in the critical area's IMO. area's around the bolt holes, threads etc. i think all of the pictured rods have sufficiant strength for the normal combos in the 7-800 hp range. after that things do get critical. lighter mass if done properly is alway's your friend on those motors. i guess the fact of the matter from what we typically see listed on this board is that very few actually put any connecting rods to the limit. on the other hand, i do a number of "serious" motors every year and rod choice becomes even more critical.
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Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECIDE
[Re: CRIKEY]
#10339
03/10/04 09:10 AM
03/10/04 09:10 AM
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Posts: 6,142 Melbourne , Australia
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Any high dollar rod steel rod is an I beam, their weight to strength ratio is believed to be higher than the H beams. With most of the Nascar teams etc running them, I would be inclined to agree. Here's a pic of what can happen to a Eagle SIR rod when over stressed If I was running an engine with a light piston and not revving it past 6500, I wouldn't be too stressed about running them. If you're swinging a heavy ol TRW slug, or you're turning it hard, that would be a different story. AL...
Alan Jones
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Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECIDE
[Re: LA360]
#10341
03/11/04 04:16 PM
03/11/04 04:16 PM
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what surprises me is that all the guy's that jumped on the bandwagon to say all of these rods are the same have disappeared. i wonder where they went? maybe all of a sudden they no longer feel the need to bring attention to themselves, LOL.
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Re: EAGLE, MANLEY, CAT RODS, DIFFERENT ? YOU DECIDE
#10342
03/11/04 04:32 PM
03/11/04 04:32 PM
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I sent you the promised info
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