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Re: several questions about 451 parts and driveability
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#1027812
07/10/11 11:21 PM
07/10/11 11:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't have the deck clearence specs on KB215s, sooo
Do they give a "compression height"?
There's ways to find it out indirectly.
If so, you can calculate the "in the hole" depth from the block height. If you can "mock-up" an old crank,rod & piston you can find out the "actual" deck height too.
I listed that piston in an earlier post, It shows the comp. height.
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Re: several questions about 451 parts and driveability
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#1027815
07/11/11 11:58 AM
07/11/11 11:58 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Valencia, España
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IF, the link I posted with specs is for real, where says piston to deck clearence is 020, will be on 015 rate ( block was decked once since block is sleeved ) gasket is metallic, so must be on 020 rate heads are 452 NOS so must be on 90-92 cc. Maybe will be just resurfaced if everthing of that is for real, then I would get around 9.9 to 10.1 Now, how to play with that and quench if between gasket and deck clearence I'm already on .035, and combustion chamber is open and untouched ? Will be around 0.09 or so!!! I still can't imagine how do you do to build a "quenched" enchine being flat top pistons, or even domed, on gas pump friendly engine. Would require dished pistons to get quench! ( 91 and 95 octanes unleaded here ) I still can't imagine how to get a 10:1 engine with quench 
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: several questions about 451 parts and driveability
[Re: NachoRT74]
#1027816
07/11/11 12:56 PM
07/11/11 12:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,070
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,070
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
IF, the link I posted with specs is for real, where says piston to deck clearence is 020, will be on 015 rate ( block was decked once since block is sleeved )
gasket is metallic, so must be on 020 rate
heads are 452 NOS so must be on 90-92 cc. Maybe will be just resurfaced
if everthing of that is for real, then I would get around 9.9 to 10.1
Now, how to play with that and quench if between gasket and deck clearence I'm already on .035, and combustion chamber is open and untouched ? Will be around 0.09 or so!!! I still can't imagine how do you do to build a "quenched" enchine being flat top pistons, or even domed, on gas pump friendly engine. Would require dished pistons to get quench!
( 91 and 95 octanes unleaded here )
I still can't imagine how to get a 10:1 engine with quench
Nothing to imagine , it's not happening with an open chamber head and a flat top piston without a ton of milling .
also it's wishful thinking that your quench will be .090 , you have a .021 gasket and a head depth that will be anywhere from .110 to .125 , I just did a 440 with an NOS 452 head and the casting was anything but straight across from end to end , ended up wit ha custom Diamond piston wit ha 2.060 compression distance , a quench dome that is .145 above top of the piston and a 20ish CC D dish , 89cc heads and a .041 gasket came in about 9.5.
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Re: several questions about 451 parts and driveability
[Re: JohnRR]
#1027817
07/12/11 01:43 AM
07/12/11 01:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
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yeap of course... I know won't happen with NOS heads and flat tops without mill a lot the heads, but then, if try to do, will raise compression maybe to 11 ? isn't that too much on iron heads street car and gas pump ?
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: several questions about 451 parts and driveability
[Re: NachoRT74]
#1027818
07/12/11 09:04 AM
07/12/11 09:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,070
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,070
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
yeap of course... I know won't happen with NOS heads and flat tops without mill a lot the heads, but then, if try to do, will raise compression maybe to 11 ? isn't that too much on iron heads street car and gas pump ?
Yes that is too much , unless you want to spend money for custom pistons or buy closed chamber heads you need to FORGET about quench and build for no more than 9.5 compression and hope for the best 
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Re: several questions about 451 parts and driveability
[Re: JohnRR]
#1027819
07/12/11 09:49 AM
07/12/11 09:49 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,096
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Valencia, España
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buy closed chamber heads ? GOD, but that will raise the CR buddy!!! thats allmost the same effect than a heavy mill down job on heads! Closed chambers will get me maybe on 11.5 CR!
I still can not understand that advice being CR is not friendly on iron heads and street gas pump. Unless talking about aluminium closed chamber ( and still some risky )
Of course I will forget about quench! Just dished pieces reachs the quench goal!!!
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: several questions about 451 parts and driveability
[Re: NachoRT74]
#1027820
07/12/11 10:35 AM
07/12/11 10:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,070
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
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U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
buy closed chamber heads ? GOD, but that will raise the CR buddy!!! thats allmost the same effect than a heavy mill down job on heads! Closed chambers will get me maybe on 11.5 CR!
I still can not understand that advice being CR is not friendly on iron heads and street gas pump. Unless talking about aluminium closed chamber ( and still some risky )
Of course I will forget about quench! Just dished pieces reachs the quench goal!!!
I thought you said you were going to forget about quench?
What makes you think that closed chambered heads are going to make your compression as high as milling maybe as much as .130 off of your open chamber heads?
Aluminum might be the better way to go , 84 cc heads , you'll be fine.
There is a lot of work involved with building a quench engine with open chamber heads, I had about 50hrs total into making sure the heads had uniform chambers to get the same piston to head distance on both sides of the block.
I wonder where all the supporters of quench being overrated are ?
Just build it with 9.5 compression and run the highest octane you can get at the local gas station and you should be fine.
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