How much rust/scale is too much? UPDATE W/PICS
#1017077
06/20/11 05:15 PM
06/20/11 05:15 PM
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Anonymous
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I have my B440 down to a bare block and there is alot of scale rust around the cylinders. I haven't cleaned it all out yet but I was surprised by the amount. When I send the block off for inspection/line boring/cylinder resizing and decking will this scale come out with their cleanup process? Will they be able to tell me whether the block is too far gone or not? I don't want to be filling my radiatior with sludge or popping a leak from the block to the cylinder after rebuild. This is my first engine overhaul and I would appreciate the input. The cylinders look pretty good except 8 has a light scuff. The crankshaft and bearings have some light scoring on 1,3 and 4. Nothing deep enough to catch a fingernail. I told my wife if the block is shot and the crank is shot then I invested $400 six years ago on scrap iron. 
Last edited by WES__HUTCHINSON; 06/21/11 05:09 PM.
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
#1017078
06/20/11 09:00 PM
06/20/11 09:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,234
Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX
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I Live Here
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Looking for a way out of Middl...
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Quote:
I have my B440 down to a bare block and there is alot of scale rust around the cylinders. I haven't cleaned it all out yet but I was surprised by the amount. When I send the block off for inspection/line boring/cylinder resizing and decking will this scale come out with their cleanup process? Will they be able to tell me whether the block is too far gone or not? I don't want to be filling my radiatior with sludge or popping a leak from the block to the cylinder after rebuild. This is my first engine overhaul and I would appreciate the input. The cylinders look pretty good except 8 has a light scuff. The crankshaft and bearings have some light scoring on 1,3 and 4. Nothing deep enough to catch a fingernail. I told my wife if the block is shot and the crank is shot then I invested $400 six years ago on scrap iron.
Rust on the block is OK.
Rust in the cylinders, on the head surface or main bearing caps/saddle can be bad if it starts to pit or cause the surface to be irregular.
Here are a few tips.
1. Find a machine shop you can trust. Shady shops abound get good references when possible.
2. Clean every thing you can out of the block core plugs, oil gallery plugs etc. The less for them to remove the better it will get cleaned. I even pressure wash it before it goes in myself.
3. Don't think that if the crank isn't scored it doesn't need to be ground. Same with the cylinders. they are often out of round and need to be ground/bored to get them true again.
From the description I think you are OK but pics would be nice.
A good machine shop will be able to look at it and tell you if you are in trouble rust wise. Cracks must be magnafluxed to be found and out of round must be measured.
Invest in a set of micrometers and expanding bore gauges in the future to give yourself a piece of mind.
Now that I may have made you nervous I am pretty sure you are OK.
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
[Re: Neil]
#1017080
06/20/11 09:30 PM
06/20/11 09:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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simple solution....invest more money to see if you have scrap or not.
have the block hot tanked, and then sonic check the bores. find out how thick the cylinder walls are. as long as they're at least .150 on the major thrust side, it's good for a solid street build up to 500-ish hp.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1017081
06/21/11 02:40 AM
06/21/11 02:40 AM
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Thanks fellas, I was talking about the water jacketed side of the cylinders. The bores themselves look pretty good. I will go ahead and find a shop to hot tank and sonic check the block. All the expansion plugs and galley plugs are removed and I will go ahead and pressure wash the passages before I haul it to the machine shop just to see for myself the extent of corrosion.
Maybe tommorow I will take a couple pics and post them.
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
#1017082
06/21/11 05:06 AM
06/21/11 05:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda
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Take the freeze plugs out yourself and clean it. I did that before I took it to the machine shop. You'll need some picks/screwdrivers/hard wire, bottle brushs, and an air gun (long nosed would be nice) I have no cooling issue with my new motor. And I don't even have a fan shroud on it yet. Ran it at 6,000 rpm for about 50 laps throughout day with 150 miles on the new motor. Did the same thing in 1994 with the 340 motor before this and never had cooling problems driving across the desert in the summer at 3500+ rpm all day.  
Last edited by autoxcuda; 06/21/11 05:10 AM.
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1017083
06/21/11 05:10 PM
06/21/11 05:10 PM
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
#1017084
06/21/11 05:11 PM
06/21/11 05:11 PM
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
#1017085
06/21/11 05:12 PM
06/21/11 05:12 PM
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
#1017086
06/21/11 05:13 PM
06/21/11 05:13 PM
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
#1017087
06/21/11 05:15 PM
06/21/11 05:15 PM
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
#1017088
06/21/11 05:15 PM
06/21/11 05:15 PM
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
#1017089
06/21/11 05:16 PM
06/21/11 05:16 PM
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
#1017090
06/21/11 05:18 PM
06/21/11 05:18 PM
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I havent pressure washed this block yet, most of the moisture is from degreaser applied to the exterior of the block. 
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
#1017091
06/21/11 06:58 PM
06/21/11 06:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
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Memphis
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When the block is hot tanked the tank will remove all this crap.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: How much rust/scale is too much?
[Re: Golden-Arm]
#1017093
06/23/11 06:26 PM
06/23/11 06:26 PM
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I went ahead and hauled the block to the high pressure car wash and thoroughly blasted the passages with hot soapy water, they look much better. They are pristine toward the 1,2,3,4 end and become more scaly at the 5,6,7,8 end. I went ahead and wiped down the cylinder,cam,crank and lifter bores with 5/30w synthetic oil as I had a partial container. I also sprayed all the threaded holes and the block in general with wd-40. Is this ok? Might be a couple months before I haul it to the machinist.
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