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Disappointing first time out #1016993
06/20/11 03:47 PM
06/20/11 03:47 PM
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South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline OP
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We had just finished installing a 440 in my friends' '65 Coronet. We pulled his 383 that ran a best of 12.5 something. Using the same cam, heads, carb, headers and drivetrain, we were looking for at least a .5 decrease in ET. The car ran the same as with the 383. We picked up .3 only when we dropped the exhaust at the collectors. It has a 3500 stall converter, 4.30 gears and 28" tall slick. The car launches a lot better, but seems to slow down from around half track on. I'm thinking this thing should be 60'ing in the low 1.6 range instead of 1.7-1.8 and running at least low 12's to high 11's. Any suggestions?


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: 68LAR] #1016994
06/20/11 04:00 PM
06/20/11 04:00 PM
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Western NY
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maxi426 Offline
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Check fuel pressure? Motor might be making a little steam, and now has a fuel supply issue?

Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: 68LAR] #1016995
06/20/11 04:12 PM
06/20/11 04:12 PM
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Sk. Canada
RemCharger Offline
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440s have a lot extra weight flapping around in there. Not really surprised they run the same.



j/k

I would look at compression differences and maybe cam timing?

Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: maxi426] #1016996
06/20/11 04:15 PM
06/20/11 04:15 PM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

Check fuel pressure? Motor might be making a little steam, and now has a fuel supply issue?




I would look at the fuel supply

Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: 68LAR] #1016997
06/20/11 04:23 PM
06/20/11 04:23 PM
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dennismopar73 Offline
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not a big enough change 383-440 ,
12.50 and you only did the swap to the 440,
12.teens 12.20s good air 12.0s
you could actualy have a fuel issue, which could have held the 383 back??

Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: dennismopar73] #1016998
06/20/11 04:30 PM
06/20/11 04:30 PM
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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How the trap RPM ? I use 4.30's with a 30" tire on my old 440 and would shift at 6200 and trap higher then that. The short stroke 383 liked the gears but with 28" tires and 4.30's it may like 4.10's or a taller tire better depending on the cam and heads. Ron

Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: 68LAR] #1016999
06/20/11 04:58 PM
06/20/11 04:58 PM
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Posts: 43,228
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:

We had just finished installing a 440 in my friends' '65 Coronet. We pulled his 383 that ran a best of 12.5 something. Using the same cam, heads, carb, headers and drivetrain, we were looking for at least a .5 decrease in ET. The car ran the same as with the 383. We picked up .3 only when we dropped the exhaust at the collectors. It has a 3500 stall converter, 4.30 gears and 28" tall slick. The car launches a lot better, but seems to slow down from around half track on. I'm thinking this thing should be 60'ing in the low 1.6 range instead of 1.7-1.8 and running at least low 12's to high 11's. Any suggestions?


Several thnings, on the cam did you install it at the same lobe centers on the 440 Or did you advance, retard or just stick it in on the dots If you guys just stuck it in you need to degree it or at least check and set the intake lobe centers Second thing ,what do the spark plugs look like now from the 440, if you put new ones in Lots of ways to slow cars down, even when your not trying to do that Let us know what you find and do to correct it


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: Cab_Burge] #1017000
06/20/11 06:20 PM
06/20/11 06:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline OP
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Cam was degreed to a 105* on a 106* recommended. My first thought was fuel pressure, but he doesn't have a guage visable from the cab, so it could be monitored. He runs a blue pump with 3/8"
line. If it would go low 12's we both would be happy. This is, as I stated, where we were hoping to be on the first outting. Trap RPM is 6000, but it takes a seemingly long time to gain rpm between shifts. Plugs looked good, no fouling or over rich indications.


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: 68LAR] #1017001
06/20/11 06:33 PM
06/20/11 06:33 PM
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United Socialist States of Ame...
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How are the valve springs?


Need your rear end checked out? Contact Grizzly!!
Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: 68LAR] #1017002
06/20/11 07:23 PM
06/20/11 07:23 PM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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Did you ever run the 383 with the exhaust removed? How bigs the carb and cam?

Even though you ran the same heads the pistons depths difference between the two motors could change the compression abit or a bunch.

Also like stated with the volume of air and fuel being pulled through with the extra cubes you could be running out of fuel.

Witch intakes are on each motor. A good tell tale sign of the second half loss of ET would be the MPH difference between the 1/8th and the 1/4. At the 12.5 zone it should be about 24 to 25 mph.

As simple as the change seems , theres still lots to consider.

Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: 68LAR] #1017003
06/20/11 07:36 PM
06/20/11 07:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 778
Sherwood park, Alberta.
go green Offline
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Quote:

The car launches a lot better, but seems to slow down from around half track on.




Your heads will only support so much power , by raising your cubic inches you are making it sign off earlier.



6.50 @ 226 MPH 4.25 @ 186 MPH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX86DHGKBo0
Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: go green] #1017004
06/20/11 07:43 PM
06/20/11 07:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
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Quote:

Quote:

The car launches a lot better, but seems to slow down from around half track on.




Your heads will only support so much power , by raising your cubic inches you are making it sign off earlier.



x2, and the converter probably flashes higher due to new found torque making it launch better. But you could find more ET in it if you start optimizing the rest of the combo.


Jim

Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: Bigcube] #1017005
06/20/11 08:22 PM
06/20/11 08:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline OP
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Never ran with the exhaust uncorked with the 383 as far as I know. We wanted to keep everything the same just change engines. Of course the intake had to be changed. The 383 had an M1. The 440 has a Torker II. Carb is a Demon 850. Valve springs are Comp 928. 150 closed 371 open. Cam is also a Comp. Solid flat tappet, 252* @.050 with .540I lift. The 383 had dome pistons at 11.2:1 compression. The 440 is .030" over and has flat tops at 10.5:1 compression. Quench is .054". Pistons are .015 in the hole and .039" gasket. I think he should go a little bigger with the cam, maybe to a 259* or 260* and more closer to .600 lift. He does run race gas.

Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: 68LAR] #1017006
06/21/11 12:06 AM
06/21/11 12:06 AM
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Canton, Ohio
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Sport440 Offline
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You left out the head info

And the MPH change between the 1/8 and 1/4.

Last edited by Sport440; 06/21/11 01:03 AM.
Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: 68LAR] #1017007
06/21/11 12:13 AM
06/21/11 12:13 AM
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State of confusion
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Quote:

Cam was degreed to a 105* on a 106* recommended. My first thought was fuel pressure, but he doesn't have a guage visable from the cab, so it could be monitored. He runs a blue pump with 3/8"
line. If it would go low 12's we both would be happy. This is, as I stated, where we were hoping to be on the first outting. Trap RPM is 6000, but it takes a seemingly long time to gain rpm between shifts. Plugs looked good, no fouling or over rich indications.


I would NEVER drive or race a car w/out a fuel pressure gauge visible. If I didn`t have my gauge in view, my car would be jacked staying in it at ZERO pressure. I`d mount in in view and go from there.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: Thumperdart] #1017008
06/21/11 12:21 AM
06/21/11 12:21 AM
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Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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Did you change the carb at all when switching from one motor to the next?


Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: 68LAR] #1017009
06/21/11 02:17 AM
06/21/11 02:17 AM
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dennismopar73 Offline
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Quote:

Never ran with the exhaust uncorked with the 383 as far as I know. We wanted to keep everything the same just change engines. Of course the intake had to be changed. The 383 had an M1. The 440 has a Torker II. Carb is a Demon 850. Valve springs are Comp 928. 150 closed 371 open. Cam is also a Comp. Solid flat tappet, 252* @.050 with .540I lift. The 383 had dome pistons at 11.2:1 compression. The 440 is .030" over and has flat tops at 10.5:1 compression. Quench is .054". Pistons are .015 in the hole and .039" gasket. I think he should go a little bigger with the cam, maybe to a 259* or 260* and more closer to .600 lift. He does run race gas.




jmo bet the 440 has 9.1 comp add the weight of the 440 over the 383,
point comp , yep ran the same or close , the 383 should been quicker
see previous post

Last edited by dennismopar73; 06/21/11 02:22 AM.
Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: Sport440] #1017010
06/21/11 09:00 AM
06/21/11 09:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline OP
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Quote:

You left out the head info

And the MPH change between the 1/8 and 1/4.



Sorry 'bout that. Heads are 906's with home port and big valves. 2.14/1.81. Only slightly shaved to get them level. MPH at 1/8 was around 88. 1/4 MPH was 110-111.
Like I said, everything was the same as with the 383,except for the intake. We wanted a true comparison. When it ran the same, this is what was dissappointing. Ya' the 440 is slightly heavier, but it also gives 53 more cubes and a bunch more torque.


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: 68LAR] #1017011
06/21/11 09:37 AM
06/21/11 09:37 AM
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dennismopar73 Offline
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75-?100 lbs down on comp, the 50 plus cubes off set the weight & compression diff
something tells me the 383 wasnt running correct either,
something was amissed there? may be the same reason the 440 doesnt run alittle better, timming /shift point fuel delievery,convert/ trans issue?
the 440 does have a little more torq # yes,
if everything the same, the 440 would run slightly better,
not no half sec, jmo
hard to say what yo have going on over a keyboard , could be several issues??

Re: Disappointing first time out [Re: 68LAR] #1017012
06/21/11 12:04 PM
06/21/11 12:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,703
Mohnton, Pa
DodgeCharger Offline
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Was the mph the same as the 383 also?

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