The yellow wire going to the relay has 12 volts when in crank position , the car starts when you jump battery terminal to the starter wire (the wire that is attached by the screw clamp terminal on the relay , I found a new relay at the local auto parts store but was for a automatic (I was lucky to get that one) I guess the other terminal has to be grounded when it is for a automatic car , I grounded that terminal and now it cranks and starts fine , I guess my old starter relay was bad? thanks for all your help , I hope it is finally fixed , we started it several times and no problems , thanks again for all your help now and in my previous discussion about this matter.