Moparts Forums >> Moparts Question and Answer

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)
VITC_GTX
super gas


Reged: Mar 22 2003
Loc: Tri-Cities, Washington
Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
      #4522035 - Mon Jun 30 2008 05:28 PM

My GTX has the 284/484 Mopar cam. During recent discussions on the board I was told by many that they really disliked this cam (their opinion was the stock 440 cam was just as good under certain circumstances).

Anyway, I currently have a low stall converter (~2100 rpms) and a 3.55 suregrip. If I swap in a Dynamic or PTC 3000 rpm converter would that wake the cam up or should I change the converter and cam together? If so, what cam?

This is a 100% street car.

--------------------
Van

"Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups"

1970 Vit-C GTX
1971 Demon - 12.76 @ 104.50
1969 Coronet 500
1971 Sebring Plus
1969 Barracuda Notchback - 12.41 @ 109.05
1970 Sport Satellite


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wings471
enthusiast


Reged: Mar 17 2005
Loc: pacific northwest
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: VITC_GTX]
      #4522105 - Mon Jun 30 2008 05:49 PM

I've read all of those ..opinions.. myself. I have that cam in a alum. head 383 with quality parts thru-out. The motor maybe makes 450-475 hp in a '68 Coronet Boat. I had a low stall converter which made the car unfun to drive. I called Andre @ Edge racing converters and gave him the specifics. He built a 3000 stall for me. It's great from a dead stop and it is civilized in traffic. For a boat it is surprising how strong that combo is and it just keeps pulling. Before with the 2000 stall it was ugly from a dead stop. I like that cam with the correct converter I also run 3.55's with 29" tires.

--------------------
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm136/wings440/P8050125-1.jpg
"Uhmmmm......I got nuthin'."

Edited by wings440 (Mon Jun 30 2008 05:51 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
VITC_GTX
super gas


Reged: Mar 22 2003
Loc: Tri-Cities, Washington
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: wings471]
      #4522151 - Mon Jun 30 2008 06:05 PM

Thanks, that reassuring.

I'm only running 28" tires so that should help me a little too.

Any other opinions?

--------------------
Van

"Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups"

1970 Vit-C GTX
1971 Demon - 12.76 @ 104.50
1969 Coronet 500
1971 Sebring Plus
1969 Barracuda Notchback - 12.41 @ 109.05
1970 Sport Satellite


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mike s
mopar addict


Reged: Jan 07 2007
Loc: Mi,U.S.A.
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: VITC_GTX]
      #4522189 - Mon Jun 30 2008 06:17 PM

If you have a real 9.5-1 comp in your engine they work fine.( the latest 114 c/l version works better) The newer Comp XE cams or Lunati VooDoo series are a better choice for all around street use.The newer fast ramp cams really beat them up in the low and mid range where most street geared , mild torq converter cars run. A 2600-2800 rpm converter is more than enough with the 3:55.For most cars the 280 / 470 MP cam is a better choice if you want to stay with the MP cams.

--------------------
Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Anonymous
Unregistered



Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: mike s]
      #4522313 - Mon Jun 30 2008 07:08 PM

Running that cam in a 30 over 440 six pack motor 475-500 hp with a 2200 - 2400 stall converter and 410 gears and 29" tires and it is in a 3800 lb car and it is a hand full. Couldn't be more happpier with the set up.The only cam I ever ran in all my 440 motors

Thanks Moparts


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Proto Type Pacer Owner


Reged: Oct 06 2004
Loc: Canada
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: VITC_GTX]
      #4522345 - Mon Jun 30 2008 07:23 PM

Not sure who disliked them cam, but I sure like it. I've used it over a dozen times, I had the 484/284 P4120235 in my Demon, it not only performed VERY well it also passed our BC AirCare emissions testing with NO detuning whatsoever, WITH the engine exactly as you see it....



I've ran the cam in different compression ratio engines, 383 to 440s, so long as the engine is fairly good shape and decent compression with heads that flow decently I have always LIKED the MP 484 cam.

There's ALWAYS a group that doesn't like a particular part, or a particular brand, etc etc...

--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Anonymous
Unregistered



Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
      #4522695 - Mon Jun 30 2008 09:08 PM

I have the same cam in my 383 powered '71 RR. Motor is about 10.25/1 compression, mild head work, 4:10 gears and 28 inch tall rear tires, it's a nice combo. BTW torque converter stalls around 2800-3k.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
VITC_GTX
super gas


Reged: Mar 22 2003
Loc: Tri-Cities, Washington
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: mike s]
      #4522882 - Mon Jun 30 2008 10:09 PM

Sounds like I have a decent combo (compression/ported heads/3.55's/28's") I just need a converter to wake everything up.

Time to call Kenny at PTC I guess. Hopefully I see a significant difference.

--------------------
Van

"Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups"

1970 Vit-C GTX
1971 Demon - 12.76 @ 104.50
1969 Coronet 500
1971 Sebring Plus
1969 Barracuda Notchback - 12.41 @ 109.05
1970 Sport Satellite


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mr.Yuck
Not delicious


Reged: Jan 21 2003
Loc: Brookeville, Md
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: VITC_GTX]
      #4523151 - Tue Jul 01 2008 05:08 AM

They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
451Mopar
mopar addict


Reged: May 19 2008
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
      #4523441 - Tue Jul 01 2008 08:05 AM

I mentioned in a simular post, that the 284/484, and 292/509 purple shaft cams were designed for beacket racing. These were the cams of choice in the Mopar Performance catalogs if you were building a bracket race car (hi-stall converter, open headers, and 4.10+ gears.) The 108 lobe seperation angle tends to create a strong, but narrow torque curve in the mid to upper RPM range.
Because of the increased overlap, the idle is choppy, vacuum is low, and low end torque is fairly weak below 2,500 RPM.

The newer "street performance" cams use a slightly wider lobe seperation angle and split intake/exhaust duration to provide a wider torque curve that will still perform good in the upper RPM range, but they may not have as much "peak" torque as the Mopar purple shaft cam.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mr.Yuck
Not delicious


Reged: Jan 21 2003
Loc: Brookeville, Md
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: 451Mopar]
      #4523570 - Tue Jul 01 2008 09:17 AM

Quote:

I mentioned in a simular post, that the 284/484, and 292/509 purple shaft cams were designed for beacket racing. These were the cams of choice in the Mopar Performance catalogs if you were building a bracket race car (hi-stall converter, open headers, and 4.10+ gears.) The 108 lobe seperation angle tends to create a strong, but narrow torque curve in the mid to upper RPM range.
Because of the increased overlap, the idle is choppy, vacuum is low, and low end torque is fairly weak below 2,500 RPM.

The newer "street performance" cams use a slightly wider lobe seperation angle and split intake/exhaust duration to provide a wider torque curve that will still perform good in the upper RPM range, but they may not have as much "peak" torque as the Mopar purple shaft cam.



that's what I should have said..lol


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Proto Type Pacer Owner


Reged: Oct 06 2004
Loc: Canada
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
      #4523734 - Tue Jul 01 2008 10:23 AM

Quote:

They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.




Great assessment.

Just not ACCURATE.

Have you ever actually ran a 484/284 in a car? Give us the specs on the engine.

I've ran a ton of them, my Demon had the P4120235...

LESS than 10.1 to 1 compression
Pulled VERY good down low. (with a tunnel ram and 2x4bbl too)
Made tons of low end power.
Idled solid as a rock in neutral and in gear.
EXTREMELY drivable, it was a great package.
Pull "zero" vacuum? Get real, my Demon had POWER BRAKES, it never had a hard pedal in the 10 years I regularly drove it on the street.

The car was fairly well known as I had it out all the time, in the middle of winter in 6" of snow even. I drove it year round for close to a decade. My wife went shopping in it quite a bit.

Could it be you guys who don't like the MoPar Performance stuff are setting up your cars WRONG, then blaming the parts instead of the tuner..?


Take a look- 484/284, tunnel ram, two four barrels and it passed AirCare emissions testing without detuning at all every single year, from 1991 until 2000.

I raced alot of cars in that time in the lower mainland of B.C., ask around how poorly my combo worked, most people asked if the car was a roller cam, and we would all laugh.



--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Proto Type Pacer Owner


Reged: Oct 06 2004
Loc: Canada
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: 451Mopar]
      #4523746 - Tue Jul 01 2008 10:30 AM

Here's my wife's old daily driver for years, it was a 484/284 cammed 440 too. Power brakes with a K car booster, and it had a tunnel ram and 2x4bbls too. Rain, snow, it was her transportation to work, and at play. Ask the poor fool on Pemberton in North Vancouver with the Grand National if it was a good street performer...

And my WIFE was driving at the time!




--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Proto Type Pacer Owner


Reged: Oct 06 2004
Loc: Canada
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
      #4523752 - Tue Jul 01 2008 10:34 AM

My buddy's 9 to 1 440 with a 484/284 was a mild street driver too- he went 12.80 on the motor and 11.63 on a small bottle at Ashcroft.

WITH 2.76 GEARS!!!!! And 29" tall slicks!
He had power brakes too.

I just wonder what the tuning was like in your cars, toss some specific parts etc at us and let's see if we can figure out where you guys went wrong or not...




--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mr.Yuck
Not delicious


Reged: Jan 21 2003
Loc: Brookeville, Md
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
      #4523771 - Tue Jul 01 2008 10:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.




Great assessment.

Just not ACCURATE.

Have you ever actually ran a 484/284 in a car? Give us the specs on the engine.

I've ran a ton of them, my Demon had the P4120235...

LESS than 10.1 to 1 compression
Pulled VERY good down low. (with a tunnel ram and 2x4bbl too)
Made tons of low end power.
Idled solid as a rock in neutral and in gear.
EXTREMELY drivable, it was a great package.
Pull "zero" vacuum? Get real, my Demon had POWER BRAKES, it never had a hard pedal in the 10 years I regularly drove it on the street.

The car was fairly well known as I had it out all the time, in the middle of winter in 6" of snow even. I drove it year round for close to a decade. My wife went shopping in it quite a bit.

Could it be you guys who don't like the MoPar Performance stuff are setting up your cars WRONG, then blaming the parts instead of the tuner..?


Take a look- 484/284, tunnel ram, two four barrels and it passed AirCare emissions testing without detuning at all every single year, from 1991 until 2000.

I raced alot of cars in that time in the lower mainland of B.C., ask around how poorly my combo worked, most people asked if the car was a roller cam, and we would all laugh.






yes i have. Will the car run? sure it's a 440. last one was a67 coronet 9:1 440 906 heads with a little work, 2200 convert, headers, CH4B intake 750 Eddy car and 3.55's it was a DOOOOOOG. Put in a Summit 488 cam and it ran great. The old style 484's and 509's like to run form 3k up. I also had a 69 Charher w/ a stock 73 440 that somebody put a 509 in...doooog.
Glad yours worked. what gear? what stall?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
kenworth_goose
pro stock


Reged: May 13 2006
Loc: ky.
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
      #4523805 - Tue Jul 01 2008 10:57 AM

All I can say is if you had a doooog with a 484 or a 509 you had other issues. I've used many in both small blocks and big blocks with bone stock bottm ends and they screamed. The last was a 68 dart with a 508 stock bottom end, stock heads with a good intake carb ign etc. went 12.40's all day long in 90 degree heat and a stock convertor with 3.91's, with street tires and full exhaust. Maybe you need a new tuner?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Paul_Fancsali
super gas


Reged: Jan 21 2003
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
      #4523806 - Tue Jul 01 2008 10:58 AM

Idon't think the problem is the cam in itself as I have owned and still own both cams. The Mopar cams from the days gone by are just that dinosaurs.The 284 -292 all pull like crazy on upper end and are good race cams they are not good on the street. I know as I drove one for close to 20 years. Can they be made to work YES, but right now I'm using a Racer Brown custom grind that to say the least is fantastic. has all the bottom end and high end I want and pulls right to 6500, it can also break the tire loose from just flooring it in 1st and sec gear.and actually gets a legit 14mpg. The 292 and 284 are lucky to get 8-10mpg on a good day. As I said use them if you got them but face facts the new generation of cams are far better. And with fuel at $4.30 a gallon I still want to drive my car just my 10 cents

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Proto Type Pacer Owner


Reged: Oct 06 2004
Loc: Canada
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
      #4523824 - Tue Jul 01 2008 11:05 AM

I've ran 484 and 509 cams in all sorts of cars personally, and most of my buddies have too. I've had over a dozen cars I put the cams in myself...

Did you degree your cams or just install them stright up on the timing gears? (What timing gears? )

My buddy had the worst gearing IMO, he had 2.76 gears with 29" tall tires, it was a 63 Dodge that was known locally as "The Lobster". It ran 11.63 at 118mph at Ashcroft on a small powershot kit, he just barely got out of second gear. I have it on tape somewhere, the whole stands starts to laugh when the car's numbers came up on the board, they knew what was in the car.

My wife's Cordoba was a 484 with a STOCK torque converter, she drove it every day. She could fry the tires at will.
Most of my cars were steeper geared but taller tired, however I did run highway gears on a few of them, no problems. I ported the heads myself, degreed the cams myself, built the engines myself, and never had any issues with any of the cams. I've never seen any of my local Mopar buddies ever "complain" about the cams the way they are complained about in this thread, I'll have to show them this. We all had good bottom end power and all had good vacuum, the vast majority of the cars had power brakes too. Small pot reservoir power brakes to boot.

A 1973 Charger was an 8.2 to 1 engine on PAPER, did you ever figure out the true compression ratio on what you were running? I'm willing to bet it wasn't what you thought! A 509 cam and a sub 8 to 1 compression engine that's not in great shape aren't exactly a "recipe for success" if ya know what I mean?
Combine that combo with highway gears and a heavy car and for SURE the car SHOULD be a "dog", IMO anyways..?

--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mr.Yuck
Not delicious


Reged: Jan 21 2003
Loc: Brookeville, Md
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: kenworth_goose]
      #4523835 - Tue Jul 01 2008 11:10 AM

Quote:

All I can say is if you had a doooog with a 484 or a 509 you had other issues. I've used many in both small blocks and big blocks with bone stock bottm ends and they screamed. The last was a 68 dart with a 508 stock bottom end, stock heads with a good intake carb ign etc. went 12.40's all day long in 90 degree heat and a stock convertor with 3.91's, with street tires and full exhaust. Maybe you need a new tuner?



yeah maybe small block what? comparing a small block to a big block is silly. Typically 340's don't starting running well until 2500-3000 rpm. So one of those cams would work better in a SB. You had 3.91's so you'll get to the rpms quicker. if you had 3.23's in the car it would have been a dog, also if you had a more modern split duration cam in the car it'd run better too. Would my 2 cars do cool burn-outs?? yeah but those cams weren't designed for mild street applications. Funny cam swap only dropped me over a 1/2 second and had much better throttle response and created a longer powerband.
I had a well worked 383 in a 68 dart that I used a 509 in. That car ran great 11.80's but it was far from a mild street engine and the car had 4.30's and a bunch of other goodies.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
kenworth_goose
pro stock


Reged: May 13 2006
Loc: ky.
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
      #4523849 - Tue Jul 01 2008 11:24 AM

My 68 dart was a 360 and went 12.40's all day long. If you had a 383 dart and it runs 12.80's you need to do some tuning. It should run much better than that. I had 3.91's and a stock convertor. Engine had a stock bottom end as well.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Dragula
super gas


Reged: May 02 2004
Loc: Taxes R-US, NY
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
      #4523866 - Tue Jul 01 2008 11:29 AM Attachment (121 downloads)

Gone 11.99-12.0's with my pump gas street car 8.5:1 compression 340 with that cam....I currently run one in my '78 dodge truck, and its stil awesome.

There are two key issue to making that cam work....
1. Fast advance distributer, and as much timing as the engine will take without pinging.

2. It does not like the stock convertor. If you have to run the stock one, there is a comparable Comp Cams .525 lift cam that has the duration to accomidate a stock convertor. You need at least a 2500-3000, or it won't be very happy with the 484. I had a tight 8" 4800 in my '72 Cuda running 12.0's with a 340 pump gas and that cam and its currently in my '78 with a 360 in it, and the street manners are fantastic.

Now if a 484 has bad street manners, you really would not want to ride in my other street car! That cam is plane nuts.See attached.

--------------------
2013 Champion Nostalgia Mod Gas Winner
http://www.gasserracingseries.com/modified-pts#!__modified-pts
'71 Duster Pump Gas 512RB With Fastest Pass 9.81/6.14 1.32 60ft 135.97mph


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Proto Type Pacer Owner


Reged: Oct 06 2004
Loc: Canada
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Paul_Fancsali]
      #4523871 - Tue Jul 01 2008 11:29 AM

Quote:

The 284 -292 all pull like crazy on upper end and are good race cams they are not good on the street.




Mine were all good on the street, every single one. My buddies cars that ran on the street were excellent drivability too?

Quote:

I know as I drove one for close to 20 years.




We have alot more than 20 years under our belt, and alot more cams than just one. Maybe it's your setup, or tuning, cam install, etc etc?

Quote:

The 292 and 284 are lucky to get 8-10mpg on a good day.



I musta had alot of "good days", cause every 484/284 I ran got pretty impressive gas mileage. My Demon got better than 8-10mpg when driven mildly, and that's with gears, tunnel ram, two four barrels, etc etc...

Quote:

As I said use them if you got them but face facts the new generation of cams are far better.



I don't have enough experience with the new flat tappet hydraulics to give any great insight here, but I would hope in 30 years of advancing technology some gains could be noted. I'm pretty sure when you suggest a 484 will get "8-10mpg on a good day", and that your similar specs Racer Brown cam gets a "legit 14mpg", I have to wonder how you achieve an extra 4-6 mpg just with a cam swap from very similar grinds. It's not possible IMO, but if you believe it- I'm not here to rain on your parade. A few tenths sure, but not a 50% increase in gas mileage, IMO anyways...


Why stick with ANY flat tappet hydraulic cam if technology and mileage are what you are after anyways- isn't ANY hydraulic cam nowadays a "dinosaur"? No zinc in the oils lately only compounds the problem..
A hydraulic roller would be the way to go over any flat tappet hydraulic cam nowadays IMO. Why compromise?

Quote:

And with fuel at $4.30 a gallon I still want to drive my car just my 10 cents




I drive all my cars at $5.00 a gallon, I think you would be better looking at EFI and hydraulic roller cams (or a 4 speed auto/OD tranny) than a different hydraulic flat tappet for gas mileage worries, IMO anyways??


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mr.Yuck
Not delicious


Reged: Jan 21 2003
Loc: Brookeville, Md
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: kenworth_goose]
      #4523879 - Tue Jul 01 2008 11:32 AM

11.80's with a weak 750 Eddy carb and a so-so trans. Bottom ends aren't as critical as heads, converter, and gear.
They are good cams for what they were designed for. Bracket racing. and the 73 440 was out of a Police Fury origanlly. Guy was going to put it in a Duster and ran out of $$. All he did was have a valve job, t-chain, 509 cam and used some old Offy intake w/ the T-quad. Car ran great on the highway.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Posest
super stock


Reged: Feb 26 2008
Loc: Montana
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: kenworth_goose]
      #4523884 - Tue Jul 01 2008 11:34 AM

I had one in my 340 and loved it. 3.55 and a 4 speed tho. Changed to a 292 when I freshened it up and it was also a good cam.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mr.Yuck
Not delicious


Reged: Jan 21 2003
Loc: Brookeville, Md
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: VITC_GTX]
      #4523947 - Tue Jul 01 2008 12:07 PM

Quote:

My GTX has the 284/484 Mopar cam. During recent discussions on the board I was told by many that they really disliked this cam (their opinion was the stock 440 cam was just as good under certain circumstances).

Anyway, I currently have a low stall converter (~2100 rpms) and a 3.55 suregrip. If I swap in a Dynamic or PTC 3000 rpm converter would that wake the cam up or should I change the converter and cam together? If so, what cam?

This is a 100% street car.




Easier to swap out the cam than pull the trans. A few cams too think about: LUN-337A1LUN 220/220-485/485 Idle-5500, XE268 224/230-477/480 1600-5800, XE262 218/224-462/470 1300-5600
I used the Summit 488 cam 224/234-465/488 ran 12.90's in a "junk yard" 440 I also ran it in a bone stock 67 GTX w/ 3.55's logs and on radails to 13.80.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ZIPPY
Get-Real! Get-X!


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: S.E. Michigan
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: VITC_GTX]
      #4524155 - Tue Jul 01 2008 01:49 PM

Ran one for about 13 years in the 440 I used to have in my GTX. Worked great in that application with 8.8:1 compression (it was a stock 1973 motor I re-ringed and milled the heads on). Low buck, low maintenance, best ET of 12.53 at 108mph. At that time it had an 850 carb, 1&7/8 headers, 4000-ish stall, and 3.91s....but it also had 29.3" tires.

--------------------

11.0 @ 123 so far


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Anonymous
Unregistered



Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: ZIPPY]
      #4524179 - Tue Jul 01 2008 01:55 PM

I have the comp version of the .484 but my motor isn't all together yet.

Anyone have sound clips of this cam in a 440?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Paul_Fancsali
super gas


Reged: Jan 21 2003
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
      #4524180 - Tue Jul 01 2008 01:57 PM

I have used both of these cams and yes they do run all right on the street, but to just street drive one with newer cams that are available is questionable. They love to drink gas especially in town driving. By the way the older 292 cams from the 70s and the 284 for that matter were made by racer brown. Like I said whatever floats your boat but newer cam designs have as you said 30 years on these models my car runs 4.10s and 25 tall tires so it has plenty of gear and a 2.82 1st 4 spd as well

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jeepers007
member


Reged: Dec 08 2004
Loc: TX
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: VITC_GTX]
      #4524247 - Tue Jul 01 2008 02:28 PM

It's fine. Ran one for years in my '68 Coronet.
383, 452 ported heads by Muscle Motors, hedders, etc.
2800 stall 12" converter
3.23 gears.
26" tires

Pulled hard from the start. No hesitation.

Definitely change the converter, and put in a shift kit.

my .02


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Blown_Hemi
master


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: Palm Coast, FL (near Daytona B...
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: jeepers007]
      #4524558 - Tue Jul 01 2008 05:19 PM Attachment (51 downloads)

I have one in my 1978 4X4 Ramcharger. 440 + .030, 9.75:1 compression, 3.55:1 gears, 29" tires, 1.6:1 rockers and a 2500 convertor. Not really a good mileage around town cam but sounds great and makes plenty of power in the higher rpm's. Pulls about 10" of vacuum in park and have no problems stopping with power brakes.

--------------------
Ask me my opinion of Frank Mitchell....... A Mopar crook!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
71valiant
enthusiast


Reged: Apr 21 2007
Loc: NE Oklahoma
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Blown_Hemi]
      #4524737 - Tue Jul 01 2008 06:35 PM


I just built a 360 with stock pistons and mildy ported heads. The only thing I did to slighty bump the compression was a mopar perf thin head gasket. Edelbrock air gap , carter 625cfm, headers etc. I run an elgin cam 484/484 lift 292/292 duration 230@.050. It has a nasty idle, and runs excellent with 3:91 gears and a 2500 stall converter. Its probably not the best choice for my motor, but overall I'm very satisfied.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rrunner
master


Reged: Nov 08 2006
Loc: S.E. Florida, USA
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
      #4524866 - Tue Jul 01 2008 07:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.




Great assessment.

Just not ACCURATE.

Have you ever actually ran a 484/284 in a car? Give us the specs on the engine.

I've ran a ton of them, my Demon had the P4120235...

LESS than 10.1 to 1 compression
Pulled VERY good down low. (with a tunnel ram and 2x4bbl too)
Made tons of low end power.
Idled solid as a rock in neutral and in gear.
EXTREMELY drivable, it was a great package.
Pull "zero" vacuum? Get real, my Demon had POWER BRAKES, it never had a hard pedal in the 10 years I regularly drove it on the street.

The car was fairly well known as I had it out all the time, in the middle of winter in 6" of snow even. I drove it year round for close to a decade. My wife went shopping in it quite a bit.

Could it be you guys who don't like the MoPar Performance stuff are setting up your cars WRONG, then blaming the parts instead of the tuner..?


Take a look- 484/284, tunnel ram, two four barrels and it passed AirCare emissions testing without detuning at all every single year, from 1991 until 2000.

I raced alot of cars in that time in the lower mainland of B.C., ask around how poorly my combo worked, most people asked if the car was a roller cam, and we would all laugh.






yes i have. Will the car run? sure it's a 440. last one was a67 coronet 9:1 440 906 heads with a little work, 2200 convert, headers, CH4B intake 750 Eddy car and 3.55's it was a DOOOOOOG. Put in a Summit 488 cam and it ran great. The old style 484's and 509's like to run form 3k up. I also had a 69 Charher w/ a stock 73 440 that somebody put a 509 in...doooog.
Glad yours worked. what gear? what stall?



Do you degree your cams? I have had very good luck with the old 484's & 509's


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Proto Type Pacer Owner


Reged: Oct 06 2004
Loc: Canada
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: rrunner]
      #4525019 - Tue Jul 01 2008 08:16 PM

Quote:


Do you degree your cams? I have had very good luck with the old 484's & 509's




Not all of them. I've tossed them in straight up on a Cloyes chain many a time. I have seen guys try running them both advanced/retarded before, but they were starting from a timing set stamping, not actually degreeing the cam at all. Some have worked, others have been pulled and degreed, the stock "straight up" position isn't always "straight up".


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sinitro
super gas


Reged: Jan 20 2003
Loc: So Cal
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: VITC_GTX]
      #4525064 - Tue Jul 01 2008 08:30 PM

Which 284 484 cam...
There is original 0235 and the later one 07697. The later one is much more streetable with less overlap. We have run the 0235 in a couple of different engines with good sucess, its downside is low vacuum so if one has power brakes...
Check it out..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Proto Type Pacer Owner


Reged: Oct 06 2004
Loc: Canada
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Sinitro]
      #4525134 - Tue Jul 01 2008 08:52 PM Attachment (74 downloads)

Quote:

Which 284 484 cam...
There is original 0235 and the later one 07697. The later one is much more streetable with less overlap. We have run the 0235 in a couple of different engines with good sucess, its downside is low vacuum so if one has power brakes...
Check it out..




I have ONLY ran the P4120235 cam, never tried the newer one...
Power brakes with small reservoirs in most of the vehicles. No hard pedal, ever. K car boosters.... 68 A body boosters, you name it.

This was my wife's daily driver, it's booster is straight out of a K car.




--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
451Mopar
mopar addict


Reged: May 19 2008
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
      #4525479 - Wed Jul 02 2008 02:08 AM

I hope you don't think I said the purple shaft cams are bad? I just was pointing out the design and application differences.
I have used the 284/484 in a 318, a 383 and a 440, and the 292/509 in a 360.
Some good points about the Mopar cams are they are inexpensive, and easy on valve springs, and usually have plenty of piston to valve clearance making them easy to install in nearly stock engines. They also make good power in their RPM ranges.

My point is most newer grinds are designed to have a wider power curve, and better idle quality, while making just as much or more power (even though you may need a dyno to see the differences?)

As for the engine combination, the 318 with the 284/282 was a mostly stock 9:1 compression engine with a Edelbrock streetmaster 318 intake and 600 cfm Holley, headers with thrush mufflers and 4.10:1 gears. The problem was my TransKing hi-stall converter broke, so I ran the '67 Coronet with the stock converter. Did I mention this was built around 1978-1979? The idle was very choppy, and with the stock converter the car was slow off the line, but at 3,000 RPM it rocked.
I actually won many races with that car because it took off so slow, it would spot the other guy a car length or so before it got into the cams RPM range ant ran the other guy down on the top end.
The 360 with the 292/509 cam was a stout engine using 11:1 compression pistons, ported heads, headers, Torquer II intake and 750 Holley. The engine was in a Challenger with a 3,000+ stall converter and 4.10:1 gears. As you can tell from the combination this one ran well.
The 383 with the 284/484 was again a mild, near stock engine with 9:1 pistons, Mopar template ported heads, weiand intake and carter 750 cfm carb. I ran it with both manifolds and headers.
This was my '71 Charger with 3.23:1 gears and a factory Hi-stall converter, but it would stall around 1,800 rpm. This engine gave me problems for quite some time untill I found a problem with the carb, but the car still needed a higher stall converter.
The 440 with 284/484 I built for a friend. The engine has 9.5:1 compression, ported heads,headers,converter, etc. The large 440 runs good with this cam, but with 440 CID it's hard to overcam the engine.

In the mid 1980's to mid 1990's I used some of the Crower Compu-Pro cams. These were some of the first cams to take advantage of the larger 0.904" tappet diameter offering faster ramp rates, wider lobe seperation, higher lift per duration, and using the split intake/exhaust lobe durations where the exhaust lobe was slightly larger than the intake lobe.

Since then I have been using the Hughes Engines cams or solid roller cams (various manufacturers.)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mr.Yuck
Not delicious


Reged: Jan 21 2003
Loc: Brookeville, Md
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
      #4525524 - Wed Jul 02 2008 05:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Do you degree your cams? I have had very good luck with the old 484's & 509's




Not all of them. I've tossed them in straight up on a Cloyes chain many a time. I have seen guys try running them both advanced/retarded before, but they were starting from a timing set stamping, not actually degreeing the cam at all. Some have worked, others have been pulled and degreed, the stock "straight up" position isn't always "straight up".




The only one I installed was the 509 in the dart. That went in straight up. and I'm sure the others did too.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
VITC_GTX
super gas


Reged: Mar 22 2003
Loc: Tri-Cities, Washington
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Sinitro]
      #4525761 - Wed Jul 02 2008 08:10 AM

Quote:

Which 284 484 cam...
There is original 0235 and the later one 07697. The later one is much more streetable with less overlap. We have run the 0235 in a couple of different engines with good sucess, its downside is low vacuum so if one has power brakes...
Check it out..




I'll have to check the receipts to see which one. I do know it was bought in the mid eighties though, so it's an old one.

--------------------
Van

"Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups"

1970 Vit-C GTX
1971 Demon - 12.76 @ 104.50
1969 Coronet 500
1971 Sebring Plus
1969 Barracuda Notchback - 12.41 @ 109.05
1970 Sport Satellite


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Proto Type Pacer Owner


Reged: Oct 06 2004
Loc: Canada
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: 451Mopar]
      #4526023 - Wed Jul 02 2008 10:19 AM

Quote:

I hope you don't think I said the purple shaft cams are bad? I just was pointing out the design and application differences.
I have used the 284/484 in a 318, a 383 and a 440, and the 292/509 in a 360.
Some good points about the Mopar cams are they are inexpensive, and easy on valve springs, and usually have plenty of piston to valve clearance making them easy to install in nearly stock engines. They also make good power in their RPM ranges.

My point is most newer grinds are designed to have a wider power curve, and better idle quality, while making just as much or more power (even though you may need a dyno to see the differences?)

As for the engine combination, the 318 with the 284/282 was a mostly stock 9:1 compression engine with a Edelbrock streetmaster 318 intake and 600 cfm Holley, headers with thrush mufflers and 4.10:1 gears. The problem was my TransKing hi-stall converter broke, so I ran the '67 Coronet with the stock converter. Did I mention this was built around 1978-1979? The idle was very choppy, and with the stock converter the car was slow off the line, but at 3,000 RPM it rocked.
I actually won many races with that car because it took off so slow, it would spot the other guy a car length or so before it got into the cams RPM range ant ran the other guy down on the top end.
The 360 with the 292/509 cam was a stout engine using 11:1 compression pistons, ported heads, headers, Torquer II intake and 750 Holley. The engine was in a Challenger with a 3,000+ stall converter and 4.10:1 gears. As you can tell from the combination this one ran well.
The 383 with the 284/484 was again a mild, near stock engine with 9:1 pistons, Mopar template ported heads, weiand intake and carter 750 cfm carb. I ran it with both manifolds and headers.
This was my '71 Charger with 3.23:1 gears and a factory Hi-stall converter, but it would stall around 1,800 rpm. This engine gave me problems for quite some time untill I found a problem with the carb, but the car still needed a higher stall converter.
The 440 with 284/484 I built for a friend. The engine has 9.5:1 compression, ported heads,headers,converter, etc. The large 440 runs good with this cam, but with 440 CID it's hard to overcam the engine.

In the mid 1980's to mid 1990's I used some of the Crower Compu-Pro cams. These were some of the first cams to take advantage of the larger 0.904" tappet diameter offering faster ramp rates, wider lobe seperation, higher lift per duration, and using the split intake/exhaust lobe durations where the exhaust lobe was slightly larger than the intake lobe.

Since then I have been using the Hughes Engines cams or solid roller cams (various manufacturers.)




I think we see things pretty much the same, maybe slightly different experiences.

I believe swapping out a cam will usually result in minor gains or losses when comparing similar sized cams. Differences best found on a dyno, as you say.
I don't think a cam swap from one similar cam to another similar cam - even ballpark specs- will result in 50% mileage increases or tremendously great power gains.
Swapping from a flat tappet hydraulic in a 12 to 1 engine to a roller cam will be possible to net a tremendous gain, but not what many of the above scenarios suggest.

The newer hydraulics might provide very modest gains, but I don't see why the modern hydraulic rollers wouldn't be looked at for performance gains, unless it's initial cost...? Taking the zinc out of our oil sure isn't flat tappet friendly!

--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
451Mopar
mopar addict


Reged: May 19 2008
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
      #4526492 - Wed Jul 02 2008 02:16 PM

Quote:


I think we see things pretty much the same, maybe slightly different experiences.

I believe swapping out a cam will usually result in minor gains or losses when comparing similar sized cams. Differences best found on a dyno, as you say.
I don't think a cam swap from one similar cam to another similar cam - even ballpark specs- will result in 50% mileage increases or tremendously great power gains.
Swapping from a flat tappet hydraulic in a 12 to 1 engine to a roller cam will be possible to net a tremendous gain, but not what many of the above scenarios suggest.

The newer hydraulics might provide very modest gains, but I don't see why the modern hydraulic rollers wouldn't be looked at for performance gains, unless it's initial cost...? Taking the zinc out of our oil sure isn't flat tappet friendly!






We are in agreement here. A big part of my considerations when choosing a cam for a street driven car is the Altitude here in Denver kills the vacuum signal, and makes an engine that has weak low end power even worse. A stock enging that should read 20" vacuum at sea-level is lucky to see 15" vacuum at this altitude.

I have been looking at the hydraulic roller cams because of the oil quality problem, but the price of the lifters is pretty steep. I think cam and lifters cost close to $1,000!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)



Extra information
12 registered and 72 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  moparts, SanityLost, tboomer, LTDan, 70Cuda383, Hotwheelsjr, not_a_charger, Eric, Al_Alguire 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 8850

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Info | Privacy statement main index

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.2