Re: Borgeson steering box install complete
[Re: AndyF]
#3096452
11/23/22 01:29 AM
11/23/22 01:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Wow, you've had more than your share of teething problems with the new parts. The brake setup that you have should work okay with a manual master cylinder. If you want to debug it you might start by verifying the brake line pressure at both ports on the master cylinder. Verify that the rear port is feeding the front brakes. You could have a bad prop valve so bypass the prop valve and any other valves in the system. Another way to tackle the debug is to verify brake line pressure at each wheel. That test will show you a kinked line or a stuck prop valve or something like that. A super cheap test is to just put some marks on the rotors with a felt pen and see if all four brakes are working. What you describe sounds like either the fronts or the rears are not working which would point me towards a bad check valve or a bad prop valve or a kinked line or something like that. I felt that something was wrong and I may have stumbled upon it. Today I got the manual MC out and the booster in. As I was bench bleeding the 1 1/8" MC, I noticed that the front port got the fluid first and the bubbles first. The rear port only started pushing fluid about 1/3 the way into the stroke. Usually, the front port serves the rear brakes while the rear port serves the front. With the brake lines connected the traditional way, the REAR is getting pressure before the front. This can't be right. I tested a stock iron 15/16' MC and front and rear get pressure at the same time. I tested the Dr Diff aluminum 15/16" MC and it was exactly like the larger 1 1/8" version: Pressure and bubbles at the front port before the rear. There was no tech sheet in the box with these master cylinders but Mancini Racing includes this sheet:
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Re: Borgeson steering box install complete
[Re: Kern Dog]
#3096454
11/23/22 01:33 AM
11/23/22 01:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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This really sucks and is a DISservice to the consumer. I had the aluminum 15/16" MC in the car and really thought I had everything right, yet the car didn't feel right. I pulled that out and put the power booster and vacuum pump in today, THEN find that the ports might be reversed. The manual setup probably would have felt much better had there been SOME instructions like Mancini Racing includes with their MCs.
Last edited by Kern Dog; 11/23/22 02:32 PM.
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Re: Borgeson steering box install complete
[Re: Sniper]
#3096573
11/23/22 02:39 PM
11/23/22 02:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
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OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Since you don't tell us the application for the master cylinders in question any further help is guess work.
Dr Diff supplied the 15/16" aluminum MC. He doesn't state what the original application was for it but he lists that it works for both disc-drum and 4 wheel disc. It could be a Raybestos unit but there are no markings on it to determine that. The reservoir is divided somewhat but when I fill one side, the other does fill up as well. The 1 1/8" unit is a Raybestos model. It came in a Raybestos box. It is OEM for a Dodge D and W 150 from 1979-1993. It even is OEM for many vans of the same era.
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Re: Borgeson steering box install complete
[Re: Kern Dog]
#3096588
11/23/22 03:18 PM
11/23/22 03:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,440 NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,440
NW Chicago suburban area
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I thought this thread was about "Borgeson steering box install complete"... perhaps another new thread should've been started on brake pedals and MC, etc.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: Borgeson steering box install complete
[Re: Mopar Mitch]
#3096689
11/23/22 11:56 PM
11/23/22 11:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND
69Cuda340S
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,333
MARYLAND
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I thought this thread was about "Borgeson steering box install complete"... perhaps another new thread should've been started on brake pedals and MC, etc. Yeah the write on the wiped cam was good though....
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Re: Borgeson steering box install complete
[Re: Kern Dog]
#3098192
11/29/22 07:59 PM
11/29/22 07:59 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,161 Los Angeles, CA
JF_Moparts
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,161
Los Angeles, CA
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That is like dating a fashion model, then dumping her to date a Wal Mart cashier. Haha, well I would first say that having dated women across a wide spectrum, sometimes the cashier is a better bargain than the model! Your mileage may vary. I ran the Borgeson with their own pump, a cooler, the Bergman coupler, and the fast ratio arms. I LOVED the ratio and for the most part, the feel. The ratio was like 10.5:1. The lighter weight was nice too. The S&G box I have is the best stock box I've ever driven. Carmen (at S&G) built me a nice one. Just about zero slop in the middle, a nice firm feel, and he used the T/A stops for my fast ratio arms. I'm going to buy another for my RR.
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Re: Borgeson steering box install complete
[Re: JF_Moparts]
#3099145
12/03/22 08:48 AM
12/03/22 08:48 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,681 Florida
BDW
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,681
Florida
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That is like dating a fashion model, then dumping her to date a Wal Mart cashier. Haha, well I would first say that having dated women across a wide spectrum, sometimes the cashier is a better bargain than the model! Your mileage may vary. I ran the Borgeson with their own pump, a cooler, the Bergman coupler, and the fast ratio arms. I LOVED the ratio and for the most part, the feel. The ratio was like 10.5:1. The lighter weight was nice too. The S&G box I have is the best stock box I've ever driven. Carmen (at S&G) built me a nice one. Just about zero slop in the middle, a nice firm feel, and he used the T/A stops for my fast ratio arms. I'm going to buy another for my RR. But the Walmart cashier doesn’t have that whinny annoying voice, My Borgeson install has the loud noise some people complain about, funny thing is, it wasn’t as noticeable with my 340. The 5.7, although much more power, is a smoother quieter motor. I may have to lengthen or change the lines, or live with it.
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