Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Help with cam selection - high altitude 440 #2978424
10/25/21 11:07 PM
10/25/21 11:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
HemiSportFury Offline OP
mopar
HemiSportFury  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
I know this question has been asked many times, but I haven't found the answer to the questions I have for this build, so I hope some of you can provide some insight. I'm building a 440 to put in my 57 Belvedere. What makes this one unusual are the following factors: I live at 6,700' elevation in a very dry climate: I will be running cast iron manifolds (non-HP) and a full exhaust, and: I'm running a 2.76 rear gear with a pushbutton 727.

With that in mind, my goal is a good cruiser with good low end torque and driveability. Obviously I'm not worried about peak hp with the restrictive exhaust system. The 440 is 0.030” over with KB 237 pistions and Stealth heads so the CR will be around 9.5. My thinking on the cam is relatively short duration and higher lift. That seems to limit the selection since it looks like duration and lift go hand in hand in most selections. Two cams I am looking at are Hughes SEH1016BL-12 ( 210/216 - 0.480/.500) and Hughes SEH1620BL-12 (216/220 – 0.495/0.503). Both cams are 112 LSA and 108 installed CL. I'm thinking the first one would provide better low end torque but would the longer exhaust duration and higher lift with the second one be a better choice? Are there other options out there that would be better? I not really considering a custom grind since I've got plenty of other places to spend money on this car.

Also, what stall speed torque converter should I use in this combo. The 57 Belvedere is slightly less weight than a B-body.

Thanks for your help!


'64 Sport Fury, 528 Hemi, FiTech EFI, 4-speed, 4.10 Dana 60
'57 Belvedere 2dr sedan, current project in process
'19 Cherokee Trail Hawk Elite
'03 Ram 2500 CTD HO, 6-speed 214,000 miles and still going strong
Re: Help with cam selection - high altitude 440 [Re: HemiSportFury] #2978480
10/26/21 08:03 AM
10/26/21 08:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
lift doesn't necessarily have to be provided by the lobe. rocker ratios are a good tool to look at. i'm with you on short duration. i've used the comp cams magnum replacement at 700ft sea level and thought it was too short for a 440, but may be ok for 6000+ altitude. i used a summit 6400 in a 9+:1 383 at 700ft altitude and was surprised at how nice it ran. i wouldn't do an aggressive lobe for what your building. they can be more misery than fun.

i like those old fin cars. learned how to drive in a '57 plymouth, my first car was a '58 plymouth. got any oic's?

Re: Help with cam selection - high altitude 440 [Re: lewtot184] #2978529
10/26/21 10:37 AM
10/26/21 10:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,645
So Near, Yet So Far
topside Offline
Too Many Posts
topside  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,645
So Near, Yet So Far
Based on similar cams I've used in 406" SB & 446" RB street cars, either should be fine for that application, and the larger of the two will easily be absorbed by 440".
Lift (within reason) is kind of "free power", meaning it doesn't typically have the low-RPM laziness side-effect that too much duration gives.
Limiting factor to some extent is the manifolds, but for this kind of application I wouldn't lose a minute's sleep over it.
I'd stick with a fairly tight converter with that gear & weight & usage, pretty much stock; did that with the 406 car (Duster, AC, 3.21 gear, 28" tire) and it was very responsive in street driving, pulled 17MPG.
I'd also in that application lean toward a Thermoquad unless you have the budget & desire for EFI.
9.5 with Stealths @ 6700 feet is plenty safe even with those fairly small cams, which tend to give good dynamic CR.

Agree on photos, love the fin cars; 1st car I ever drove (age 12) was the parents' '57 Sport Suburban (which had a 383 swap).

Re: Help with cam selection - high altitude 440 [Re: lewtot184] #2978531
10/26/21 10:40 AM
10/26/21 10:40 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,176
nowhere
S
Sniper Offline
master
Sniper  Offline
master
S

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,176
nowhere
When the factory considered high altitude running cam specs weren't changed, just tuning specs. Pretty sure drag racers did the same as well, might talk to a few of those and pick their brains.

Your engine combo will have more of an effect than altitude and with the planned exhaust, mild cam is a better choice.

Me?, with your stated goals and build I'd just run the stock 440 cam.

Re: Help with cam selection - high altitude 440 [Re: Sniper] #2978561
10/26/21 11:53 AM
10/26/21 11:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,239
north of coder
moparx Online content
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Online Content
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,239
north of coder
stock 440 cam installed a few degrees advanced perhaps ?
a well tuned t-quad would work well with that combination.
the factory torque converter for the pushbutton transmission [727, correct ?] will work good as well.
just my opinion. your mileage will vary.
beer

Re: Help with cam selection - high altitude 440 [Re: moparx] #2978608
10/26/21 02:27 PM
10/26/21 02:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
HemiSportFury Offline OP
mopar
HemiSportFury  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
Originally Posted by moparx

a well tuned t-quad would work well with that combination.
the factory torque converter for the pushbutton transmission [727, correct ?] will work good as well.
just my opinion. your mileage will vary.
beer
I've never messed with a T-quad, so excuse the dumb question, but why would it be better than say a Holley?

I should add that I have upgraded the input shaft and support on the 727 so I can run the later torque converters. Not much of a selection for the early style input shaft.

The body is still at the hot rod shop getting painted but should be ready to come home soon. I've still got a long way to go, but making progress.

20211021_110609.jpg

'64 Sport Fury, 528 Hemi, FiTech EFI, 4-speed, 4.10 Dana 60
'57 Belvedere 2dr sedan, current project in process
'19 Cherokee Trail Hawk Elite
'03 Ram 2500 CTD HO, 6-speed 214,000 miles and still going strong
Re: Help with cam selection - high altitude 440 [Re: HemiSportFury] #2978644
10/26/21 04:26 PM
10/26/21 04:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,309
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
master
BSB67  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,309
Prospect, PA
That is so cool!

Re: Help with cam selection - high altitude 440 [Re: BSB67] #2978655
10/26/21 04:50 PM
10/26/21 04:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
love it!!!!!!!!! use a stock 11 3/4" converter with that tall gear.

Re: Help with cam selection - high altitude 440 [Re: lewtot184] #2978736
10/26/21 08:53 PM
10/26/21 08:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
I would look for and use 12 inch motor home converter up scope Maybe a 383 11 inch two barrel converter if you can find one up
OP, I remember riding in a 1957 black Savoy that a local guy had put inline stock dual quads on it, I'm not sure if it was 318 or a 305 Plymouth poly but I was not impress with that motor down
My first decent car was a 1959 Dodge Coronet with a 326 C.I. Poly 2 barrel motor (it was just like the 318 Plymouth Poly motors) with a Powerflyte, talk about no bottom end power whiney
It got me every where I wanted to go without breaking down bow up That car was the start of me liking and using Mopar cars, the next two cars I bought was a 1957 Chrysler (SP?) New Yorker for my wife and two years later a 1957 Chrysler 300C hardtop for us as a family car boogie
I was hooked then and was very lucky to find and be able to buy a original 1963 Plymouth two door sedan Belvedere 415 HP M.W. 727 car several years later, that rascal was a real joy up
It Kick a lot of Chevy and Ford tails hammer devil haha

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/26/21 08:55 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Help with cam selection - high altitude 440 [Re: HemiSportFury] #2978748
10/26/21 09:25 PM
10/26/21 09:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,060
Atlanta, GA
M
mgoblue9798 Offline
super stock
mgoblue9798  Offline
super stock
M

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,060
Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by HemiSportFury
Originally Posted by moparx

a well tuned t-quad would work well with that combination.
the factory torque converter for the pushbutton transmission [727, correct ?] will work good as well.
just my opinion. your mileage will vary.
beer
I've never messed with a T-quad, so excuse the dumb question, but why would it be better than say a Holley?

I should add that I have upgraded the input shaft and support on the 727 so I can run the later torque converters. Not much of a selection for the early style input shaft.

The body is still at the hot rod shop getting painted but should be ready to come home soon. I've still got a long way to go, but making progress.



Other than better gas mileage, you might want a Thermoquad because some of them came from the factory with altitude adjustment valve to keep them in tune at various altitudes. Only carb I am aware of that has that feature.

Re: Help with cam selection - high altitude 440 [Re: mgoblue9798] #2978876
10/27/21 12:02 PM
10/27/21 12:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,239
north of coder
moparx Online content
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Online Content
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,239
north of coder
Originally Posted by mgoblue9798
Originally Posted by HemiSportFury
Originally Posted by moparx

a well tuned t-quad would work well with that combination.
the factory torque converter for the pushbutton transmission [727, correct ?] will work good as well.
just my opinion. your mileage will vary.
beer
I've never messed with a T-quad, so excuse the dumb question, but why would it be better than say a Holley?

I should add that I have upgraded the input shaft and support on the 727 so I can run the later torque converters. Not much of a selection for the early style input shaft.

The body is still at the hot rod shop getting painted but should be ready to come home soon. I've still got a long way to go, but making progress.



Other than better gas mileage, you might want a Thermoquad because some of them came from the factory with altitude adjustment valve to keep them in tune at various altitudes. Only carb I am aware of that has that feature.



i was going to mention the altitude adjustment valve, but you beat me to it. up
to the OP : that car looks great ! bow will be stunner going down the road !
beer

Re: Help with cam selection - high altitude 440 [Re: HemiSportFury] #2978899
10/27/21 01:08 PM
10/27/21 01:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,060
Atlanta, GA
M
mgoblue9798 Offline
super stock
mgoblue9798  Offline
super stock
M

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,060
Atlanta, GA
As far as the cam goes, I would give Mike Jones a call. Keeping cylinder pressures up at that altitude might be best done with a custom grind.







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1