500 Inch Gen III will be possible soon.

This was just announced tonight, I thought you guys might want to read about it.

Reminds me of the video of Steve Morris racing engines about water and sleeves and wet decks...

Thank you for posting this!

mmx block...15g probably?

Hard to say. From what I gather it is a factory 6.4 block with sleeves installed. Looks like their heads must be used with the block to make a running engine. Interesting to say the least.

Have a friend getting one of the first Dart Gen III Hemi blocks.

Should be interesting.

Any idea on the price for the Dart?

https://www.jegs.com/i/Dart/301/31612211/10002/-1

Wow. Now how to upgrade EVERYTHING else to handle that power.

Was hoping for chevy $3200 pricing, but $3900 isn't bad....471 cubes at 12:1 compression would make a pretty nasty engine.

Dart had an unfinished block on display at PRI. Looked pretty stout. Only thing I didn't like was it had Chevy style 4 bolt main caps. The #2,3,4 were splayed outer bolts with no side bolts. Unless it was a prototype I don't see why they wouldn't do the bottom end like a KB block. The architecture is already there. AFR and Muscle Motor Extreme are coming out with heads. Was hoping for someone else to come out with rockers but did not see anything new. Jesel and T&D.

Something to think about for the guys who want taller deck blocks. The way the cam and lifter bores are arranged on the new Hemi's would require a lifter angle change if the deck was taller. If the lifter angle was not changed you would have to clearance the heads for pushrods so much they would end up in the water jackets or ports. Head castings could be re-cored to have material in the pushrod tube areas. Changed lifter angle means different cam cores. Intake manifolds would be different. Just food for thought.

Goes back to Steve Morris.....He is of the same thinking in that the 90* cross bolts the KB blocks use do little against the direction of the load on the caps.I think you will see more aftermarket blocks like this as they have proven good to +2khp already...

Is there anything like this where you can just run a 4.25 piston without quiite as long stroke and funky heads required?

4.460 bore center minus 4.250 bore leaves .210 between bores. Not good unless its already a siamese bore block. Even then its pushing it. Darton offered sleeves for a 6.1 for a while but I know it wasn't 4.250 bore.

What more do you need? They have the market covered. The only reason most want anything different is because of price point and I don't see that changing, unless it comes from overseas. Rockers for Gen 3 Hemi's (or any Hemi for that matter) aren't cheap to make, due to the amount of machining, hence the cost of the current offerings. When I was working on my own Rocker design, I found that out first hand.

Ya, I know. But one can hope. I really like the individual shaft set ups. Just have to save my pennies!🤣

Ric3xrt has been doing LS and R5 sleeves in to the BGE and 6.1 blocks since 2016....finally some one else caught on

Dartons 6.1 M.I.D sleeves were designed to go 4.155, which leaves .192 of wall left.

A few years back Ric had one with the Darton mid system, bored to 4.25 , leaves .145 of cylinder wall left , the test mule ran a real short stroke, was between 389-392CI. ran 6.5XX length rods , Idea was to keep the side load down , block had a little bit of hard block to help keep it stiff. I know he's done 2 or 3 with a 4.20 bore and 4.25 stroke, once with a 4.30. and one with a 4.40 winberg crank , the 516ci mule is a billet block with a 4.40 winberg

The Darton LS2/3/7 will work, need to trim the bottom , with the LS sleeve you have more side wall left, .220 if I remember @4.20 bore , I know at his old job they did a few 4.32 bore LS7s with the Darton sleeve and 1 G3 BGE 4.32 bore , paper thin wall , jacket was full of hard block.

Were they Darton MID sleeves for LS2/3/7??
If so what did they do to accommodate the difference in bore spacing?
LS has 4.400 bore spacing, so at 4.32 bore that leaves .08 between bores, .040 wall thickness per sleeve, what did they do for head gaskets in this type of build?

Yes Darton LS2/3/7 sleeves, I asked once about bore spacing , his reply is ," you just move it to what you need silly" , with the M.I.D system your basically cutting the deck out of the block, the end result is a piston guided thrust set up, 4.5 bore spacing Billet Canted valve head
There were doing it for years with SBC's before the 4.5BS and 4.6BS blocks came out, When I picked up my 488 he had a 4.5 space SB2 headed 454 there

Head gasket, I keep getting this cheep Chinese accent and the quote" Ancient top fuel secret" , so I'm thinking copper gasket and "O" ring deal.

Asked him why can't we do it to a G3 and he said , "You cut the check and I'll get it done".....hence my 488 I just picked up. 4.25X4.30 , Crank is a Winberg, Thitek heads BAM 3.5inch long lifters and Jesel Rocker system. cam is in the low .800s lift want to do a Holly hi Ram but the 2x4 top doesn't fit under the cowl of the truck, so drag pak it is.

I know what the dyno says, but I'm keeping that to myself till I get some runs on the truck, will see if the track times get close to the dyno #s right now my best was a 9.59 with the 463 , that was the run that the camshaft snapped on ,right behind the 1st journal. hopping for low 9s maybe crack an 8.99. with the 488.

So they just leave a .060 water gap between the 2 sleeves when using LS MID sleeves in a G3?

Honestly I don't know, He left for Germany last night and will be there till mid Jan, I can ask him when he's state side again

I know on the LS applications the Sleeves are milled on the side so they can "siamese" bore, I don't see why he wouldn't do the same with the G3 ,

Yes, the surface that meets an adjacent sleeve is flatted and designed to nest against that sleeve with the flat. When adding .060 to the borespacing there would be a gap between the flats when the LS kit is installed in a Hemi. Just curious how they worked around it. RTV? Weld?

We don’t mill the flats,we trim the length to fit , when theses are in a stock LS block you essentially turn it in to a 4.46 BS, I milled the sides of the sleeve once for a street build last sleeves in a 6.1 block, had . 100 between the sleeves.

Any pictures?
After reading the instructions for the Darton MID LS sleeves and the Darton LS dry sleeves they both recommend maintaining a bore center dimension of 4.400 +/-.0005
What Darton part number did you use in the Hemi blocks?

So I see the price has jumped to over +$4240 now, and I don't know anyone who has even bought one yet...Anyone purchased one?

The OEMs beg to differ, and they have alot more actual Engineering behind their decisions.

Exactly! There's a reason why Ls and others have 4 bolt main caps with side bolts. Thats the bottom end design that SHOULD be in Darts block.

The OEMs place different value on certain design considerations than racers. The cross bolts aren't to support the caps, they're to tie the sides of the relatively flimsy stock block together. It allows a lighter, less costly block as well as other benefits. On a good aftermarket block, material use (cost) is less of a concern and the block is beefed up, not needing the cross bolted caps to improve rigidity. This is where the superior clamping and locating ability of the splayed 4 bolt caps sitting in a register shines.

They might have more data, but is it relevant? I mean these blocks are going to go way past any production Hp levels, so data at 500hp isn't really a factor at 1500hp. I have no data myself, but guys that blow these things up at that level.....They would know best at what holds together.