Tubular UCA options

What options do I have?

I'm close to buying a set of Firm Feel arms from Dick to replace my CAP units which will be thrown in the trash.

Hotchkis is a close second, is there a good option I'm missing?

The SPC arms from Bergman Autokraft, only ones I know of with Delrin bushings. When my RMS arms wear out i'll be getting some from Peter.

Thanks Emil. The SPC arms are the only double adjustable arms on the market. They offer the largest adjustment range because each leg of the arm is like a tie rod sleeve. They have delrin bushings and my own mounting sleeves and spacers included. BAC Store

Our arms are the only ones on the market that correct all of the deficiencies in the factory suspension and are designed to work with modern spring and shock rates as well as tires. Our suspension is on the fastest Mopars across the country! We'll have the the EMax at the Carlisle Chrysler Show in July to prove it!

Anyone heard/had any issues passing safety inspections with these aftermarket a -arms? Are they certified for on road use?

I don't believe those arms fit with alex's brakes (gen 3 viper on 360mm srt8 rotors).

Peter & Emil - do the BAC SPC arms fit with the big brakes?

I think Peter runs the same front brakes as us Wade?

I still find it odd that we didn't see the same fitment issue on Kevins 76 Dart. Either way, it would be a simple fix to clock the caliper out of the way.

Very true Dan.

No issues using this arm with the gen 3 viper caliper and SRT 14" rotors.

I told Rob about it on my car and I think he's going to have Corey check it out. I believe Kevin's calipers are, physically, smaller than mine.

Dan, can you elaborate a tad on the factory deficiencies that have been remedied?

Camber change, bump steer, compliance, etc? I noticed you have extra bracketry with your arms but would like a little detail on how those are benefitting the system.

I've done Firm Feel suspension going on 10 years now. Mostly A body with a few 71 B bodies. My 71 RR has a complete Firm Feel suspension and it's like riding a roller skate.

For the street and a occassional autox or road race that's the way to go. If you want the full adjustability to fine tune and adjust based on track conditions then Hotchkis. I've never owned a car with their product however I have ridden and driven cars running the Hotchkis system. I think the two are comparable however a lot of R&D goes into Hotchkis. Firm Feel's experience with their systems has been mainly customer improvement suggestions from actual track time. Not sure on the R&D. You may want to talk with Dick at Firm Feel.

Not a problem! We've covered it a few times in discussion on this forum, so I'm going to cheat a bit and do a copy/paste from our site

"Hotchkis Sport Suspension 1110 Dodge B and E Body Geometry Corrected Tubular Upper A-Arms. Dramatically improve the cornering performance traction and steering response of your Dodge with Hotchkis Sport Suspension Tubular A-Arms. Specifically designed to correct the excessive caster gain and create the proper negative camber curve this kit features a Hotchkis exclusive Laser Cut Pick Up Point Relocation Bracket and TIG-welded Light Weight A-Arms which are fully gusseted for strength and feature High Articulation Rod Ends for maximum adjustability. Finished off with high quality ball joints and a lustrous nickel look powder coated Finish blending form and function. Features: TIG-welded Lightweight 1 1/8 in. Tubing with laser cut reinforcement gussets. High Quality 5/8 in. High Articulation Rod Ends and Ball Joints installed. Laser Cut CNC Bent Bolt In Relocation Bracket corrects excessive caster gain. Lustrous Nickel Look Powder Coated Finish. Benefits: Dramatically improves traction and steering response. Lightweight Tubular A-Arms improve camber curve. Laser Cut Pick Up Point Relocation Bracket corrects excessive caster gain. Reduced Bump Steer Bolt In Installation

How does the geometry corrected arm work?

The A-Arm pivot bracket we provide is part of our solution for reducing bumpsteer. The stock upper A-Arm configuration has such a steep inner pivot angle. This causes the caster to change rapidly as the suspension travels up and down causing excessive spindle geometry-point movement. Our new pivot location reduces this caster change and allows the upper lower and steering arms to translate more harmoniously throughout its travel. This change in conjunction with our steering tie rods help minimize unwanted bumpsteer. In addition the upper arms themselves have more negative camber and more positive caster built into them to maximize tire contact patch while cornering."

Thanks Dan, any numbers you can share?

Camber change from X°/in-heave to Y°, bump steer from X to Y, roll center migration from this to that, etc? Keeping it generic as % improvement or the like would be helpful even.

I'm trying to read through the marketing lingo and get to how much improvement we talking about here.

Changing the UCA is a must for our cars; at the least would be changing UCA bushings to the Moog offset design.

Beware of what you buy -- some sanctioned race groups/classes have restrictions to the type of replacement parts (UCA, etc), as well as the attachment points. Read your intended club's rule books before you spend $$$.

Can't get too far into the specifics but here is a great video that shows the improvements...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzxPWrdPlt0&index=13&list=PL068F425A23F0F118

I don't know what rock I was hiding under- but I missed the fact that yall change a mounting point on the B and E body UCA's! Very nice Dan! That puts yall in a league of your own.

They bring the front of the arms down which, if done right, will kill some caster gain( also effects toe change through travel)through travel and at the same time should "flatten" the upper arm when looking at it from the front, and that in turn helps camber gain on up travel, which is actually more negative camber during UP travel. Make sense???

I'd assume by the response that they are not?

I don't think many parts are regulated by any sort of governing body. Besides lighting [DOT], safety components [DOT?], tires [DOT]..I can't think of much else...except emissions components [EPA].

Consider all the modified 4x4's for a second, there are hundreds of thousands of them throughout the states with aftermarket control arms, tie rods, drag links...even some that are completely home-brewed that go through inspections without hesitation.

There are some states that Heim joints are ILLEGAL for safety inspection....its been discussed on here before. A lot of jeep guys used to use them and were not passing safety so they had to go back to a bushing style system. The new johnny joints are not in the same class as a heim so they were not restricted. Tim

What states mandate vehicle inspections in the first place?

Here the list I found that require vehicle safety inspections.

• Delaware
• District of Columbia
• Hawaii
• Illinois
• Louisiana
• Maine
• Massachusetts
• Mississippi
• Missouri
• New Hampshire
• New Jersey
• New York
• North Carolina
• Pennsylvania[
• Rhode Island
• Texas
• Utah
• Vermont
• Virginia[
• West Virginia

Damon

He's in Canada, not sure how attentive the safety inspections are up there, but in TX they are a laugh.

Yep I'm in Canada ( Ontario)I have the Hotchkis arms on now for 4 plus years. I'm just wondering if push comes to shove if these are " legal" ?
The MTO ( ministry of transportation) does random inspections are they are relentless on justifying their outrageous salaries and retirement plans. They usually are not mechanics and have very little training/knowledge just lots of authority....

Bet that authority also says if it doesn't have an official piece of paper saying it is legal and safe, then it is not?

Put the protective booties on there. They will probably never notice that they are rod ends on an UCA.

Now, the Hotchkis tie rods that are rod end...not really sure about being able to hide those. I am not running those. With that being said my Hotchkis sway bars, UCAs, and subframe connectors were nice pieces. Car drives amazing now.

We have booties for the end links too. Makes them "look" like a standard ball joint.

The more I look at it, I'm beginning to agree that the Hotchkis arms are the best thought out on the market.

I assume all aftermarket arms will say ""for race use only" thereby relieving the party of legal action if a fault occurs

THERE ARE NO WARRANTIES, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF
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EXTEND BEYOND THE DESCRIPTION ON THE FACE HEREOF. ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES ARE DISCLAIMED TO
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OR INDIRECT DAMAGES. HOTCHKIS’ MAXIMUM LIABILITY UNDER THIS WARRANTY SHALL IN NO EVENT
EXCEED THE PURCHASE PRICE OF THE PRODUCT. Some states do not allow limitations on how long an
implied warranty lasts or the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages and in such
states the above limitations or exclusions may not apply. This limited warranty gives the purchaser
specific legal rights and the purchaser may have other rights that may vary from state to state.
Technical Information
Hotchkis Performance makes every effort to ensure that you are provided with the most accurate and
up-to-date technical information. However, all technical information is approximate and may vary
upon application. Additional suspension components may be needed in some applications, depending
upon the make, model, engine and chassis of the vehicle. Hotchkis Performance is not responsible for
any consequences resulting from manufacturer’s technical mid-year changes. Hotchkis Performance
products should only be installed by a qualified, licensed auto mechanic experienced in the installation
of such products.
Warranty Claim Procedure:
The answer to ALL the following questions should be YES before making a warranty claim:
ƒ Is the product appropriate to your application?
ƒ Did you carefully and thoroughly read the instructions provided along with the product?
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ƒ Was the product properly installed by a qualified, licensed auto mechanic?
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If the answer to all these questions is YES, please contact our Customer Service Department at (562) 907-
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12035 BURKE ST. SUITE 13
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I really don't like this. So for most of us there is no warranty. I probably know more about the car than pretty much any licensed mechanic ever will (I actually design car parts).

If you can talk the talk and walk the walk we can usually figure it out pretty quick.
If you want us to pay your medical bills and repair your freshly restored car because you installed a leaf spring upside-down; it snapped in half and poked out your eye, it isn't going to happen and we have to cover our butts. Its the sad litigious nature of the world we live in these days.

AS you or anyone professional should, because if you don't all takes is one to shut your doors and we have no more parts to buy, nobody wins,

As far as the "licensed" requirement, I wonder if there is indeed a license requirement or availability in all 50 sates your products are sold in. I would think dropping licensed and changing the requirement to "experienced" would be a compromise, allow a lot of latitude for interpretation from both sides and be practical.

ASE Certified technician, or equivalent, would be the better choice of words... unless that's what the legal jargon is attempting to express.


However, there are some ASE Certified technicians that should not be allowed to work on any vehicles based upon their experience.

Competent, that should cover it.

I'm glad the Moparts Legal Jargon Investigation and Recommendation Committee has found this thread.

I have a Genuine Federal DOT Mechanics license, but its not good in any state.....

, because if there is any sort of problem, its easy to say, that's proof enough the installer was not competent as required.

Good luck with that. Competent is subjective. What is compentent to one person could be incompetent to another. You need something objecttive to measure against.

Agreed, which is why ASE, for all it's issues, is about the only nationwide certification setup that'll be relevant. A judge isn't interested in anecdotal "I am competent, no you're not" arguments. All that will matter is that some third party "recognized" authority says you are, and for all intents and purposes that is ASE.

Because competent can be argued both ways, and if one says they are competent, they have to prove it, and one says you are not they have to prove it. Judge doesn't care, he only cares who proves their point by 51%. Of course its subjective, that is the point. If you want 100%, don't buy or sell anything.

Read the ASE test thread, doesn't sound like it proves anything to me.

Sounds like a scene in "Idiocracy":

Lawyer: "are you a competent installer?"
Witness: "I have an ASE certification"
lawyer: "Did you install the plaintiffs A arm upside down?"
Witness: "I have an ASE certification"

I wonder if being an A&P would qualify me as competent? Need to work 30 months as an apprentice and 6 exams before getting my license to learn...