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Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight?

Posted By: RylisPro

Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/18/14 06:35 AM

Was doing some research and found the FABO thread
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/archive/index.php/t-106670.html
It says Gen 3 Hemi's weigh 533 lbs. & LA 340's weigh 525 lbs.
Is this fairly accurate?

I would figure that the LA 340 weight is with iron heads and intake. My engine has alum. heads and intake though.

Anyone know accurate weights on a Gen 3 Hemi and an alum. top end 340?

Thanks
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/18/14 06:41 AM

They are over 500 lbs. for sure. The blocks are freakin heavy!
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/18/14 10:53 AM


Are ANY ov the new hemis all aluminum? Aluminum blocks seem no big deal for Ford, but Dodge... who sure could use a weight break, sticks with iron?
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/18/14 12:48 PM

The Gen 3 Hemi 427 crate motors are (4.125 bore x 4.00 stroke) all aluminum.
Supposedly 100 lbs. less
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/18/14 02:33 PM

Bare 6.1 block on my scales is 190-195 lb.

So maybe 30 lb heavier than a 340 block and 30 lb lighter than a 440 block


I don't think you'll see much weight difference between the three when set up similarly.



The aluminum block is 75-100 lb less than the iron block. $4300. More bore available.
Posted By: 70blackfish

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/18/14 07:40 PM

my friends all alum. 6.1 really a 7.0 is 425lbs

Attached picture 8304390-IMG_0831.jpg
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/18/14 08:33 PM

Im not going to a Gen III for the weight break lol.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/18/14 09:02 PM

Quote:

Im not going to a Gen III for the weight break lol.




Me either, there are many...many other reasons to upgrade from an LA to a 3rd Gen.
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 01:53 AM

Quote:

The Gen 3 Hemi 427 crate motors are (4.125 bore x 4.00 stroke) all aluminum.
Supposedly 100 lbs. less




Lets call it a 426. I dont care if its 1cid bigger... 427 is a Chevy/Ford engine.

190lb blocks? Christ. Things are supposed to get BETTER with technology... not worse. Who thought this one through in the design stages? You can find big block blocks that weigh that if you weigh a few...

I thought those new 7L hemis weren't available?
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 02:00 AM

Ill take a heavy block any day of the week that doesnt have cap walk and try to spit the crank out when you get towards 700hp.
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 02:02 AM

Actually its more of a 428 (CID= 427.65)
They are available if you have $15,000.00 and that is with Compstar H-beam con rods
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 02:03 AM

I have a '06 5.7 block here that I can pop the crank out of and weigh it if the need is there.
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 02:07 AM

Hey Goody do you have your car's weight before you pulled your LA small block?
When you put in your Gen 3 and your T56 Magnum, please weigh your car.

That's the real weight I want to know
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 03:08 AM

Quote:

Hey Goody do you have your car's weight before you pulled your LA small block?
When you put in your Gen 3 and your T56 Magnum, please weigh your car.

That's the real weight I want to know





I'll let you know. My iron headed/alum intake 318/904 weighed as follows. I'll be at least a year out on my swap.

Attached picture 8304907-scale_weight.JPG
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 03:18 AM

Do you happen to remember how much gas you had in the tank at the time?
Great info! 55/45 front rear at 3400 lbs. is pretty good for an E body!
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 03:31 AM

I had 13gal or so in the tank. I'm also adding A/C to the car.
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 09:26 AM

Quote:

Ill take a heavy block any day of the week that doesnt have cap walk and try to spit the crank out when you get towards 700hp.



Ford's 20 year old 'Teksid' aluminum 4.6 block (96-99 Cobra) weighs about 90lbs, and is tried, tested and true to 1400HP. Their later ('01) domestic block was 5lbs lighter and still good for 1000 or 1200HP... i forget. They're already getting staggering numbers from the new 5.0 Coyote blocks. You can keep your 200lb block... whoever came up with that one is still livin' on 70's time...

I had no idea they were so heavy. Would have figured Dodge would have gone aluminum by now too? Even for iron... that seems overly heavy.
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 09:30 AM

Quote:

Do you happen to remember how much gas you had in the tank at the time?
Great info! 55/45 front rear at 3400 lbs. is pretty good for an E body!




Not bad at all. My bone stock survivor/stripper 70 6-cyl Challenger was 60/40 at 3000lbs...
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 01:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Ill take a heavy block any day of the week that doesnt have cap walk and try to spit the crank out when you get towards 700hp.



Ford's 20 year old 'Teksid' aluminum 4.6 block (96-99 Cobra) weighs about 90lbs, and is tried, tested and true to 1400HP. Their later ('01) domestic block was 5lbs lighter and still good for 1000 or 1200HP... i forget. They're already getting staggering numbers from the new 5.0 Coyote blocks. You can keep your 200lb block... whoever came up with that one is still livin' on 70's time...

I had no idea they were so heavy. Would have figured Dodge would have gone aluminum by now too? Even for iron... that seems overly heavy.





I agree, production high hp aluminum blocks are out there for Ford and Chevy. Typical Mopar is always behind in some form or fashion...Unfortunately it's the best thing we have going at the moment.
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 01:18 PM

I am just grateful that they have aluminum Gen 3 blocks at all. I would love to lose 75-80 lbs. off the front end to balance out the car. I really feel that with our crap +40 year old chassis that you can't really utilize more than 500hp cornering at the track anyways.
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 02:26 PM

Quote:



Ford's 20 year old 'Teksid' aluminum 4.6 block (96-99 Cobra) weighs about 90lbs, and is tried, tested and true to 1400HP. Their later ('01) domestic block was 5lbs lighter and still good for 1000 or 1200HP... i forget. They're already getting staggering numbers from the new 5.0 Coyote blocks. You can keep your 200lb block... whoever came up with that one is still livin' on 70's time...



Put one in your Mopar then. Get it to 50/50. You've got a few months till the shootout race. You can prove the superiority of all things aluminum {sarcasm}

Quote:

I am just grateful that they have aluminum Gen 3 blocks at all. I would love to lose 75-80 lbs. off the front end to balance out the car. I really feel that with our crap +40 year old chassis that you can't really utilize more than 500hp cornering at the track anyways.




75-100 lb is no big deal IMO. And the chassis is fine. If you're having trouble with the 'crap' chassis you should tune it. Dial it in. Change some spring rates. Change alignment. Change the way you drive. Spend some quality time on a Skidpad (if your oiling system is up to it).
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 02:39 PM

With the "crap chassis" I meant was how it was put together at the factory compared to today's standards which I assume would have better quality control. My cage builder said it was the worst car he's ever worked on as nothing really lined up body wise. He said there were 1 inch differences left vs. right.
My car must have been built on a Friday haha!
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 07:26 PM

So when you add all the power adders that are required to make Ford 4.6 worth 2 S$$t's how much does it weigh? No advantage to those engines whatsoever.
Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 08:13 PM

Mopar Action magazine had a bit where they spoke with a 3G engineer. They had plans to build the 5.7 from aluminum but found that cast iron suited the needs better in terms of long term durability. Remember, the "Coyote" engine didn't get installed in the F-150 for 300,000 mile durability.
The 5.7 Hemi was expected to be a long lasting engine in the same vein as the Slant six and 318. I say "mission accomplished". My 2007 has 210,000 and still idles and runs like new. It burns some oil but is otherwise solid as a rock. I can only imagine how an aluminum block would have failed after the stresses of towing, running in 110 degree heat and 200,000 + miles of use. Look at the Cummins Diesel engines. THOSE are as heavy as you could ever imagine, again for durability and longevity. Granted, the high compression and vibration of Diesel engines impart greater stress, but you get the idea, right?
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 08:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hey Goody do you have your car's weight before you pulled your LA small block?
When you put in your Gen 3 and your T56 Magnum, please weigh your car.

That's the real weight I want to know





I'll let you know. My iron headed/alum intake 318/904 weighed as follows. I'll be at least a year out on my swap.



Impressed with those numbers. Any other things done/modified lighter than stock?? Like: alum/brass radiator, headers, aftermarket front seats, manual brakes, front mounted battery etc.



My 68 Barracuda was 3412. But with all iron 360/727 including 69-down cast iron water pump, factory brass radiator, 340 hipo ex manifolds, heavy A-body console, 11.75 disks.

Mine did have Toyota front seats, aluminum master cly.

Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 09:03 PM

Quote:



Impressed with those numbers. Any other things done/modified lighter than stock?? Like: alum/brass radiator, headers, aftermarket front seats, manual brakes, front mounted battery etc.



My 68 Barracuda was 3412. But with all iron 360/727 including 69-down cast iron water pump, factory brass radiator, 340 hipo ex manifolds, heavy A-body console, 11.75 disks.

Mine did have Toyota front seats, aluminum master cly.





Aluminum radiator
Full length headers with a pretty heavy 3" exhaust
Trunk mounted battery
Electric fan
Manual brakes w/alum master but also 11-3/4" fronts...which are pretty heavy.
8-3/4" rear
Full interior
17" and 18" wheels, rears are 295/45/18. I don't have the weight off hand, but the wheels are just plain American Racing, nothing light or intended for racing.


I wouldn't say it is/was much lighter than the average ride.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/19/14 09:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:



Impressed with those numbers. Any other things done/modified lighter than stock?? Like: alum/brass radiator, headers, aftermarket front seats, manual brakes, front mounted battery etc.



My 68 Barracuda was 3412. But with all iron 360/727 including 69-down cast iron water pump, factory brass radiator, 340 hipo ex manifolds, heavy A-body console, 11.75 disks.

Mine did have Toyota front seats, aluminum master cly.





Aluminum radiator
Full length headers with a pretty heavy 3" exhaust
Trunk mounted battery
Electric fan
Manual brakes w/alum master but also 11-3/4" fronts...which are pretty heavy.
8-3/4" rear
Full interior
17" and 18" wheels, rears are 295/45/18. I don't have the weight off hand, but the wheels are just plain American Racing, nothing light or intended for racing.


I wouldn't say it is/was much lighter than the average ride.



40 lbs battery in rear will shift rear weight bias 1.8% to rear. Most 700CCA batteries are 45 lbs.

Headers weigh significantly less than stock cast iron. Especially if they are not Dougs or TTI's.
Posted By: topbrent

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/20/14 09:07 AM

Quote:


My 68 Barracuda was 3412. But with all iron 360/727 including 69-down cast iron water pump, factory brass radiator, 340 hipo ex manifolds, heavy A-body console, 11.75 disks.

Mine did have Toyota front seats, aluminum master cly.





Steve, was that 3412lb scaled weight with you in the drivers seat or empty?
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/20/14 09:30 AM

Quote:

Quote:


My 68 Barracuda was 3412. But with all iron 360/727 including 69-down cast iron water pump, factory brass radiator, 340 hipo ex manifolds, heavy A-body console, 11.75 disks.

Mine did have Toyota front seats, aluminum master cly.





Steve, was that 3412lb scaled weight with you in the drivers seat or empty?



Empty. With 15x8 steel rim spare tire too.

Just prior to putting on the Hotchkis TVS setup. Which should have shed a few pounds. Did not weigh afterwards.

Bouncing the car to get it to settle on scales...

Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/20/14 10:17 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Ford's 20 year old 'Teksid' aluminum 4.6 block (96-99 Cobra) weighs about 90lbs, and is tried, tested and true to 1400HP. Their later ('01) domestic block was 5lbs lighter and still good for 1000 or 1200HP... i forget. They're already getting staggering numbers from the new 5.0 Coyote blocks. You can keep your 200lb block... whoever came up with that one is still livin' on 70's time...



Put one in your Mopar then. Get it to 50/50. You've got a few months till the shootout race. You can prove the superiority of all things aluminum {sarcasm}



You know... at this point i probably would if i could. Dont suppose you want to wire it up for me...


Quote:

75-100 lb is no big deal IMO. And the chassis is fine. If you're having trouble with the 'crap' chassis you should tune it. Dial it in. Change some spring rates. Change alignment. Change the way you drive. Spend some quality time on a Skidpad (if your oiling system is up to it).



I agree with you on the chassis bit... but 75-100lbs 'no big deal'...??? Did you hit your head? To some racers finding 10 unneeded pounds in one spot is a big deal, but close to 100...??? right over the notoriously nose-heavy front end ov these cars...??? Would you run a serious race with a 100lb passenger? How about if they were strapped to the hood...???

On an E-body (the worst) this an even bigger deal.
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/20/14 10:31 AM

Quote:

So when you add all the power adders that are required to make Ford 4.6 worth 2 S$$t's how much does it weigh? No advantage to those engines whatsoever.



The 20 year old 4.6DOHC will make enough RWHP with bolt-ons to run a 3500lb Mustang well into the 11's. Actually build the bottom end (with some compression and better rods) and you can dip tens. Actually spend some money... and i'm talking no more money than the average Mopar build here... and you can make 400-450RWHP. Again, in a 3500lb Mustang, thats enough power to run 10's. Its kinda ov odd the numbers never quite seem to impress... yet, the performance does. Maybe mods are like Buicks... ('Buick math is different')? They god damn RUN. Why does it seem take the average Mopar 500HP to run into the 11's, yet a 281cid Ford can do it with so much less? I could care less about the dyno brag at this point... If my theoretical 4.6 swap happened (it wont), that'd be one fast car. To say nothing ov the advantages it would have cornering... with that 410-425lb engine up front. Thats over 50lbs lighter than a slant-6...

Thats not even getting into the already proven over and over and over superiority ov the new Coyote (with its mind blowingly huge 302cid). No boost or NOS needed. Mods are ALLLLLLLL about N/A power as far as i'm concerned. I dont expect to win any coverts here, but dont tell me those aren't wicked little powerplants.

Ignore technology at your own peril. Hell... even the import guys are catching up... and they've got NOTHING to work with cid-wise...
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/20/14 10:38 AM

Quote:

Mopar Action magazine had a bit where they spoke with a 3G engineer. They had plans to build the 5.7 from aluminum but found that cast iron suited the needs better in terms of long term durability. Remember, the "Coyote" engine didn't get installed in the F-150 for 300,000 mile durability.
The 5.7 Hemi was expected to be a long lasting engine in the same vein as the Slant six and 318. I say "mission accomplished". My 2007 has 210,000 and still idles and runs like new. It burns some oil but is otherwise solid as a rock. I can only imagine how an aluminum block would have failed after the stresses of towing, running in 110 degree heat and 200,000 + miles of use. Look at the Cummins Diesel engines. THOSE are as heavy as you could ever imagine, again for durability and longevity. Granted, the high compression and vibration of Diesel engines impart greater stress, but you get the idea, right?



Yes, thats all elementary. Ford didn't put any aluminum into its trucks either. They had iron blocks for trucks, and aluminum for the performance cars... hell, even the T-Birds. I also understand that Ford has 7000 times as much money as Dodge, but holy HELL those SRT cars could use a weight break! Would a semi-limited run have killed them?

Someone told me last week the new Hellcat weighs 4450lbs... That CANNOT be right...
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/20/14 11:18 AM

I got into the 11's with 365 rwhp. So what that it was with a $3000 station wagon motor. We could go on for days about cheap and fast this and that. I do it my way because it isnt like other people and doesnt follow the masses. I cant wait to get my over weight Gen III HEME running.
Posted By: amxautox

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/20/14 08:14 PM

Quote:

I got into the 11's with 365 rwhp. So what that it was with a $3000 station wagon motor. We could go on for days about cheap and fast this and that. I do it my way because it isnt like other people and doesnt follow the masses. I cant wait to get my over weight Gen III HEME running.

How much torque did that station wagon motor make?

And what was the torque range?
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/20/14 08:19 PM

Never dynoed it, it went 11.96 at 112 weighing 3420 at 2300ft.
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/20/14 08:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



Ford's 20 year old 'Teksid' aluminum 4.6 block (96-99 Cobra) weighs about 90lbs, and is tried, tested and true to 1400HP. Their later ('01) domestic block was 5lbs lighter and still good for 1000 or 1200HP... i forget. They're already getting staggering numbers from the new 5.0 Coyote blocks. You can keep your 200lb block... whoever came up with that one is still livin' on 70's time...



Put one in your Mopar then. Get it to 50/50. You've got a few months till the shootout race. You can prove the superiority of all things aluminum {sarcasm}



You know... at this point i probably would if i could. Dont suppose you want to wire it up for me...


Quote:

75-100 lb is no big deal IMO. And the chassis is fine. If you're having trouble with the 'crap' chassis you should tune it. Dial it in. Change some spring rates. Change alignment. Change the way you drive. Spend some quality time on a Skidpad (if your oiling system is up to it).



I agree with you on the chassis bit... but 75-100lbs 'no big deal'...??? Did you hit your head? To some racers finding 10 unneeded pounds in one spot is a big deal, but close to 100...??? right over the notoriously nose-heavy front end ov these cars...??? Would you run a serious race with a 100lb passenger? How about if they were strapped to the hood...???

On an E-body (the worst) this an even bigger deal.



Sure, I'll help you wire it.

I've hit my head a lot of times. But 75-100 lbs for $4300 at or below the COG is not worth it for a 3600 lb track day car that has yet to reach it's potential.
Posted By: SRT6776

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/21/14 01:43 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The Gen 3 Hemi 427 crate motors are (4.125 bore x 4.00 stroke) all aluminum.
Supposedly 100 lbs. less




Lets call it a 426. I dont care if its 1cid bigger... 427 is a Chevy/Ford engine.

190lb blocks? Christ. Things are supposed to get BETTER with technology... not worse. Who thought this one through in the design stages? You can find big block blocks that weigh that if you weigh a few...

I thought those new 7L hemis weren't available?



According to a very vocal engineer on another large mopar site, to make an aluminum block as rigid as an iron one means it almost weighs the same when its all said and done. You need X amount of aluminum material to = iron strength, and it's apparently quite a bit.

For the cost and 100# savings, I can see why they've been avoiding it.

Regardless, I am sure this is the last iron V8 from Chrysler as weight savings is the name of the game now, costs be damned.
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/21/14 02:18 AM

Quote:

Regardless, I am sure this is the last iron V8 from Chrysler as weight savings is the name of the game now, costs be damned.


So are we going to see production all aluminum engines in cars and hopefully all aluminum crate engines as well?
Maybe volume sales will drive down the costs
Posted By: SRT6776

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/21/14 02:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Regardless, I am sure this is the last iron V8 from Chrysler as weight savings is the name of the game now, costs be damned.


So are we going to see production all aluminum engines in cars and hopefully all aluminum crate engines as well?
Maybe volume sales will drive down the costs




They already make aluminum block G3 crates - you'll see the cost issue first hand though X10..lol

I figure the next gen V8 will lose the hemi name and be named EcoTorque or something equally as silly, but be aluminum, direct injected etc
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/21/14 02:35 AM

Quote:

They already make aluminum block G3 crates - you'll see the cost issue first hand though X10..lol

I figure the next gen V8 will lose the hemi name and be named EcoTorque or something equally as silly, but be aluminum, direct injected etc


Yeah I am getting quotes from Arrow Racing Engines...it's not funny haha!

How far off would next gen all aluminum engines be in production cars?
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/21/14 04:03 AM

Quote:

According to a very vocal engineer on another large mopar site, to make an aluminum block as rigid as an iron one means it almost weighs the same when its all said and done. You need X amount of aluminum material to = iron strength, and it's apparently quite a bit.

For the cost and 100# savings, I can see why they've been avoiding it.

Regardless, I am sure this is the last iron V8 from Chrysler as weight savings is the name of the game now, costs be damned.



As we used to say in Baja, "Aluminum may way 1/3 less than steel, but it's 1/3 as strong."
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/21/14 09:51 AM

Quote:


Sure, I'll help you wire it.




Cool. I'll hold you to that. I have trouble tracking down a starting gremlin in a car with no accessories but an alternator...
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: Gen 3 Hemi vs. LA 340 weight? - 10/21/14 10:02 AM

Quote:


According to a very vocal engineer on another large mopar site, to make an aluminum block as rigid as an iron one means it almost weighs the same when its all said and done. You need X amount of aluminum material to = iron strength, and it's apparently quite a bit.

For the cost and 100# savings, I can see why they've been avoiding it.



Actually, i was wrong. The Teksid 4.6 blocks weighs only 85lbs. They dont seem to have any issues with reliability? In fact, it might be one ov the most over-engineered parts to ever see an American car. They were cast in Italy by a company that makes blocks for Ferrari though... so perhaps its engineering and quality control Mopar lacks? They seriously look like a mini Keith Black...

You've got me curious now... for comparisons sake (to a 426 Hemi) how much does a Keith Black Hemi (water) block weigh? Seeing as they are clearly superior to iron Hemi blocks, according to your friend they'd have to be almost as heavy? I'm guessing they are not.
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