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Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install

Posted By: MuuMuu101

Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/20/14 08:53 AM

So, in the next couple of weeks I am going to make the leap and start taking the Dart apart so that I can install my TVS, Doctor Diff front brakes, and 8 3/4 rear end. I'd just like your opinions, advice, and parts you think I'll need (I may be forgetting some) so that I can eliminate as much down time as possible. The goal is to get the car running again before October. So here I go...

Chassis and Suspension:
So, as far as chassis and suspension goes, as mentioned earlier, I already have the Hotchkis TVS. I also purchased their subframe connectors and LCA pivot shaft and bushing kit. I was thinking about just installing the UCA, strut rods, and steering rods while holding off on welding the sway bars and subframe connectors till after the car is driving. On the side, I purchased a set of 1.06" T-bars from Firm Feel that should be swapped in at the same time since the LCA have to come out for new bushings. Are there any other parts I'm forgetting that I need to replace to completely rebuild the front suspension?

Brakes:
So for the front brakes, I will be using Dr Diff's 13" rotor kit with the "Brembo-style" calipers. I already have them at home, but what would be the easiest way of assembling that? Should I install the spindle first or put the brakes on the spindle and install the whole sub-assembly with the UCA? Also, does anyone have any recommendations for MC's? The one I have is a 2-bolt 1 1/32", and I'm not sure if that will cut it. And since I have the KH discs and am eliminating the drums, do I need to change out the distribution block? I'm still uncertain at this point.

The rear brakes are almost done. Everything's bolted on, but I just need to figure out how the 11.7" kit with Cobra calipers connects to my stock brake lines. Or, do I need to modify them? Anyone have pictures or help? Cass gave me the the hardware and connections with some instructions, but I'm a visual learner. I have parking brake lines too.

8 3/4 Rear End:
The 8 3/4 has 3.55 gears and an Eaton TrueTrac in it. I just completely assembled it, adjusted for play, and filled it up with oil on Friday. It just needs a break in. I installed a 7290 yoke on it but am unsure at the moment of what the yoke is on my driveshaft. I'm guessing it may be a 1350 and I believe Dr Diff sells a proper U-Joint. I know I'm going to have to get my driveshaft cut but I'll probably get to that when the rear end is back in the car. I'm guessing the shop is going to want the driveshaft measured their way.

Is it possible to install the 8 3/4 at the same time as the leaf springs or should the leaf springs be bolted on beforehand?

Wheels and Tires:
For wheels, I was going to purchase an 18x9-10" set with 275/35/18 tires all the way around. They're going to be two piece wheels so I can set my ideal back spacing/offset. I'm just unsure about the best means of doing so. I'm guessing, bear minimum, I may have to roll my fenders to get everything to fit.

Luckily, I've got a lot of people who want to help me with this car. I've got my uncle (retired body work guy), my friend from the baja club who was helping me 2 years ago, and a couple of my coworkers so I won't be doing some of this alone.

I don't work Friday-Sundays and finish work at 2pm everyday so, luckily, I've got some time to work on this. I know I kind of just threw out a bunch of information at you guys but I appreciate your guys' knowledge and support. Thank you for everything.
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/20/14 02:12 PM

Exciting stuff!

Suspension and chassis:
Have you recently replaced ball joints and pitman/idler arms? And are you using factory LCA's? You could brace the LCA's (AR Engineering kit from firm feel). You could also weld up and brace the k member, if you want to go so far as to take it out (AR engineering kit from firm feel)

Brakes:
I'm not familiar with the piston sizes in those brembo calipers. The cobra calipers are well sized for the rear. I would recommend no distribution block. Just a straight line back. And a t fitting for the front.
Find out front piston sizes and run the math sheet.
Your master may be fine. I run a 15/16 2 bolt I got from dr diff. The 15/16 might be a better size for you. Though If I were you, I would start with the master you have and change if you feel you need it after running.
Rear brakes: I run braided lines to my rear calipers for ease of working on them. Did dr diff send you a set? If not, see if the front braided brake line part number will work (I used same PN braided on all 4).

Wheels:
You're going to have to nail your back spacing if you're going to get 275/35/18's to fit square. I'm unfamiliar with 2 piece wheels- but don't you need new cylinders to change offset? Sounds expensive to swap sets?
What size wheels do you have now? How do they fit?
I run 265/40/18 square on the street (I like the taller tire), and 275/35 fit as well. I'm running +45mm offset in the front(7.2" back spacing), and they rub the frame and the wheel well at about the same time (around 1.25 turn of wheel). I lost turning radius. If you don't go so low, you can run less offset.
The rears are tight as well both inner and outer wheel tubs have tire rub marks from tire rubbing. 60.5" width rear with +45mm offset there as well. Also running dr diff offset leaf spring hangers (would be in leaf springs if not)

Cheap way to find perfect fit is to get a high offset wheel of the size and tire you want, and use spacers until you find the 'perfect' location in the wheel well. Subtract the spacer width from the offset and you're done. Where are you located? I have a 18x9.5 +45 spare laying around.

Hope that helps a bit.
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/20/14 02:24 PM

I just did what you are about to do to your car earlier this year. I had a local shop tackle most of the suspension stuff though but here are some suggestions. Mind you I have an Ebody but pretty much using similar parts

Front end Hotchkis:
Get some grade 8 or higher button head bolts for the tie rods because you might need them in case you need clearance at the wheel due to the tie rod bumpsteer spacers. I ended up not using the hotchkis aluminum spacers and was able to get shorter steel spacers at the hardware store. I am using a 10.5" wheel so you might not need this for a narrower combo. I would also get the rubber booties for the rod ends as well.


brakes:
I used an aluminum MC from a dodge truck but I have hydroboost though. The pedal feel is great but I can't heel toe anymore as it grabs way too quick. I just changed my driving style. I still have to swap to Carbotechs

Cass sent me another distribution block to use, I would email him again.

8 3/4:
only thing I did different was get 1350 u joints on both ends.

wheels:
I would get 2 rain wheels and tires with deepest offset and using a variety of aluminum spacers to find the exact offset you need front and rear. You might be surprised that a wider tire might fit! I rolled my fenders too.


Hope that helps!
Posted By: jcc

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/20/14 03:21 PM

To OP, I also use 1350's, but in all honesty, I think they are overkill for non drag use. I suspect though 1330 alternatives are slim, and 1310 not an upgrade from OEM.
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/20/14 04:39 PM

The front and rear suspension installation is a weekend project.
If you were closer I'd swing by and help you knock it out.

The rear brakes lines will require a double flare tool to attach them to the calipers. You will need to find a flexible (rubber or (preferably) braided) line to connect each side to the calipers. That will allow them to move about (they are sliders) without breaking the line.

I've got everything you need to do the install and the shop space to do it.
Bring it on out here and we'll get it done.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/20/14 11:39 PM

Quote:

Exciting stuff!

Suspension and chassis:
Have you recently replaced ball joints and pitman/idler arms? And are you using factory LCA's? You could brace the LCA's (AR Engineering kit from firm feel). You could also weld up and brace the k member, if you want to go so far as to take it out (AR engineering kit from firm feel)



I haven't rebuilt anything suspension wise that's why I was wondering what else I'd need to replace as my coworker asked me about replacing my LCA ball joints. And yes, I'll be using the factory LCA's. I also have an entire front end assembly (drum-to-drum) with all the suspension components and steering linkages from a '71 Demon if I need to steal parts. It wouldn't be difficult to brace the LCA's when they come out. I just need to make sure one of my friends has a welder handy. As much as I'd like to weld up and brace the k-frame, I think I'm going to hold off on that till I do an engine swap.

Quote:

Brakes:
I'm not familiar with the piston sizes in those brembo calipers. The cobra calipers are well sized for the rear. I would recommend no distribution block. Just a straight line back. And a t fitting for the front.
Find out front piston sizes and run the math sheet.
Your master may be fine. I run a 15/16 2 bolt I got from dr diff. The 15/16 might be a better size for you. Though If I were you, I would start with the master you have and change if you feel you need it after running.
Rear brakes: I run braided lines to my rear calipers for ease of working on them. Did dr diff send you a set? If not, see if the front braided brake line part number will work (I used same PN braided on all 4).



I just went to the garage and measured the pistons with my digital caliper. The reading was kind of iffy because my batteries were dying but all of the pistons were about 36.5mm in diameter (1.43").

I know Dr Diff recommends the 15/16" bore but when I checked on his website a couple days ago, I think he said the MC was out of stock. I don't think I have feets' brake calculator saved to my laptop. I could probably do a quick search for it.

Dr Diff sent me some hoses, brackets, and hardware to install with the lines. I'm just not sure how they go on as it's the first time I've worked with rear discs. I can post pictures of what I have later.

Quote:

Wheels:
You're going to have to nail your back spacing if you're going to get 275/35/18's to fit square. I'm unfamiliar with 2 piece wheels- but don't you need new cylinders to change offset? Sounds expensive to swap sets?
What size wheels do you have now? How do they fit?
I run 265/40/18 square on the street (I like the taller tire), and 275/35 fit as well. I'm running +45mm offset in the front(7.2" back spacing), and they rub the frame and the wheel well at about the same time (around 1.25 turn of wheel). I lost turning radius. If you don't go so low, you can run less offset.
The rears are tight as well both inner and outer wheel tubs have tire rub marks from tire rubbing. 60.5" width rear with +45mm offset there as well. Also running dr diff offset leaf spring hangers (would be in leaf springs if not)

Cheap way to find perfect fit is to get a high offset wheel of the size and tire you want, and use spacers until you find the 'perfect' location in the wheel well. Subtract the spacer width from the offset and you're done. Where are you located? I have a 18x9.5 +45 spare laying around.

Hope that helps a bit.



So, story on the wheels... OzHemi's has a wheel "guy" who supplies him outters. I believe, the same guy also took a set of the centers on OzHemi's Torana and decided to replicate and manufacture a cast set of them. I've seen his ad on CL a couple months ago, but he stated I could get any width between 4-13" (or something) for the 18" wheel, any offset, in any bolt pattern for $1650. So, pretty good deal. If he doesn't have the cast centers anymore, OzHemi also has a supplier for forged centers and I'll just have to bite the bullet and get those. Only problem with going with off the shelf wheels is that I think the rears are going to need less of an offset than the fronts since it's an A-body rear and not a B-body. I just measured and it's ~58.5" rotor-to-rotor.

With regarding to tire size, I know it's doable. If it's going to be that difficult to get a 275/35/18 on there, I can go one step down to 265/35/18 (losing some sidewall) or I can probably try to fit a 255/40/18 which may offer a more comfortable ride.

Now, on my Stealth, I do have some aftermarket wheels on them. They're MSW Type 11's. I don't recall completely but I think they were 17x7's or 17x8's with 5.7 bs (45mm or 38 mm offset). I was using 245/45/17 wheels on that. I could probably tell my mechanic to remove one of them and I could try using one as a mach up; however, I'm not sure if they'll fit on the fronts with the big brakes or center register. If they do fit, I could probably just put some new tires on those and hold off on wheels for awhile.
http://www.ozracing.com/car_wheels_var/MSW/25190/AVANTGARDE/MSW%2011/25536.aspx#

I'm located in Covina, CA 91724.

Thanks for your help.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/20/14 11:50 PM

Quote:

I just did what you are about to do to your car earlier this year. I had a local shop tackle most of the suspension stuff though but here are some suggestions. Mind you I have an Ebody but pretty much using similar parts

Front end Hotchkis:
Get some grade 8 or higher button head bolts for the tie rods because you might need them in case you need clearance at the wheel due to the tie rod bumpsteer spacers. I ended up not using the hotchkis aluminum spacers and was able to get shorter steel spacers at the hardware store. I am using a 10.5" wheel so you might not need this for a narrower combo. I would also get the rubber booties for the rod ends as well.


brakes:
I used an aluminum MC from a dodge truck but I have hydroboost though. The pedal feel is great but I can't heel toe anymore as it grabs way too quick. I just changed my driving style. I still have to swap to Carbotechs

Cass sent me another distribution block to use, I would email him again.

8 3/4:
only thing I did different was get 1350 u joints on both ends.

wheels:
I would get 2 rain wheels and tires with deepest offset and using a variety of aluminum spacers to find the exact offset you need front and rear. You might be surprised that a wider tire might fit! I rolled my fenders too.


Hope that helps!




I wish I had a lathe handy because I could probably make my own steel spacers if needed be. As for the rod end boots, I already purchased a set and they came in on Monday.

Was the front disc kit supposed to come with a distribution block? If so, I didn't get one. I was holding off on ordering it till I figured out how it works, but I like uhcoog1's idea for just having a T for the front and a line that goes to the back.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/20/14 11:53 PM

Quote:

To OP, I also use 1350's, but in all honesty, I think they are overkill for non drag use. I suspect though 1330 alternatives are slim, and 1310 not an upgrade from OEM.



I honestly don't know what yoke is on my driveshaft; however, I know for a fact I've got the 7290 on my 8 3/4.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/20/14 11:57 PM

Quote:

The front and rear suspension installation is a weekend project.
If you were closer I'd swing by and help you knock it out.

The rear brakes lines will require a double flare tool to attach them to the calipers. You will need to find a flexible (rubber or (preferably) braided) line to connect each side to the calipers. That will allow them to move about (they are sliders) without breaking the line.

I've got everything you need to do the install and the shop space to do it.
Bring it on out here and we'll get it done.



Well, a weekend project for most people is like a 2-4 week project for me.

I've got at least one friend who has the double flare tool that could probably help me out. And the kit came with rubber lines.

I wish I could bring it out but I don't think work would be too happy with me taking a 1 week vacation with the mess that's going on. Plus I don't have a truck and trailer.
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/20/14 11:57 PM

With getting the right back spacing...you can also get an idea what you think will work, then just have him heat the outer up and drop the center in without welding it. You can try it out and he can move it around as needed until you get it spot on then they can be together.

When I had the initial set built for the Torana.. I had a center I bolted onto the car and some slightly oversized (ID diameter) outers that I could slide back and forth and got it just where I wanted it.

I have a spare set of wheels here too that I had made with the last of the forged centers, and went with the wider in back and slightly changed the back spacing on too. Just haven't gotten around to the wider tires yet.

If you didn't have wheel studs you could hold a wheel of mine under there...with the 265/35-18's on them. (no studs since mine is 5 on 4 3/4" of course )
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/21/14 12:03 AM

Quote:

With getting the right back spacing...you can also get an idea what you think will work, then just have him heat the outer up and drop the center in without welding it. You can try it out and he can move it around as needed until you get it spot on then they can be together.

When I had the initial set built for the Torana.. I had a center I bolted onto the car and some slightly oversized (ID diameter) outers that I could slide back and forth and got it just where I wanted it.

I have a spare set of wheels here too that I had made with the last of the forged centers, and went with the wider in back and slightly changed the back spacing on too. Just haven't gotten around to the wider tires yet.

If you didn't have wheel studs you could hold a wheel of mine under there...with the 265/35-18's on them. (no studs since mine is 5 on 4 3/4" of course )



Is your wheel guy still making the cast wheels?

And as for your wheel, we could just drill/bore a giant hole through the centers to make the mach up work.
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/21/14 12:05 AM

As far as I know he is...I can give him a call..


How about we just angle grinder off all your wheel studs? Or convert your car to Chevy bolt pattern to make it easier.
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/21/14 12:08 AM

Oh and if you need driveshaft stuff at all... the place around the corner here is awesome.. Powertrain Industries in GG..
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/21/14 12:28 AM

Quote:

Oh and if you need driveshaft stuff at all... the place around the corner here is awesome.. Powertrain Industries in GG..



That's who I was planning on using.
Posted By: 340duster340

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/21/14 03:17 AM

for the rear install, since the housing is all assembled (and heavy), i would mount the front spring hangers first, with springs attached.

roll the housing over the springs and elevate it on jack stands -- way up.

then raise and install rear spring hangers

lower rear on to springs, u-bolt it down.
Posted By: jcc

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/21/14 03:24 AM

That sounds a lot easier then from my experience. Are we talking with the center installed, because it is so front heavy, it is awkward to rotate into position and hold while bolting up. I install with the springs and slightly loose U bolts.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/21/14 05:06 AM

These are all good notes!

Some pics from last week. Quick Mach up of what the brakes would look like...


After I assembled my 8 3/4 on Friday...
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/21/14 05:55 AM

On the wheels I would get 4 fronts and just use thin billet spacers on the rear. The ability to rotate front to back helps a ton on the pocket book.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/21/14 07:13 AM

I thought they were rubber last time I looked at them. Looks like their braided lines. Same with the front. Anyways, this is what's left of my Dr Diff kit to put on the rear (minus the parking brake cables). There's an L-bracket in the bag that's supposed to hold the line, I believe, but I'm not sure where that's supposed to bolt. I also have no idea what the other hardware is for.

Attached picture 8247172-unnamed.jpg
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/21/14 07:29 AM


Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/21/14 07:38 AM

Quote:

On the wheels I would get 4 fronts and just use thin billet spacers on the rear. The ability to rotate front to back helps a ton on the pocket book.



That would be great. My only worry is how "thin" the spacer will need to be.
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/21/14 09:21 AM

Here is a picture of the hose routing in this recent thread. The L-bracket which retains the hose, bolts to the caliper bracket:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8189403&Main=8188020
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/21/14 09:26 PM

Quote:


I know Dr Diff recommends the 15/16" bore but when I checked on his website a couple days ago, I think he said the MC was out of stock. I don't think I have feets' brake calculator saved to my laptop. I could probably do a quick search for it.




Feets calculator:
http://3gduster.com/brakes.html
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/22/14 07:00 AM

Quote:

Here is a picture of the hose routing in this recent thread. The L-bracket which retains the hose, bolts to the caliper bracket:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8189403&Main=8188020



Thanks for the response and the email! I saved the picture on my laptop.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/22/14 07:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:


I know Dr Diff recommends the 15/16" bore but when I checked on his website a couple days ago, I think he said the MC was out of stock. I don't think I have feets' brake calculator saved to my laptop. I could probably do a quick search for it.




Feets calculator:
http://3gduster.com/brakes.html



I was fiddling around with it last night and tonight. Seems like if I'm going to get 1000+ psi of MC pressure, I'm going to have to exert 130 lbs with my current MC as opposed to 110 lbs if I were to get the 15/16" bore. I know I'll have shorter travel with my current MC, I just don't know how much shorter.

Click on "Attachment" above for a bigger picture.

Attached picture 8248058-Untitled.png
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/23/14 01:58 AM

Does anyone have MOOG part numbers for replaced ball joints and pitman/idler arms? I'd like to order some from rockauto today.
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/23/14 02:08 AM

Assuming you have the 73+ A-body knuckles, you just want to order the parts for a '73 Dart 318

Inner Tie Rod:ES401L
Outer Tie Rod:ES401R

Left Lower Ball Joint: K783
Right Lower Ball Joint: K781
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/23/14 02:15 AM

Don't forget to compare the price of them at Amazon too..with free prime shipping, it can work out cheaper than Rock at times depending on what the stuff is and where rock is shipping it from.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/23/14 02:42 AM

Quote:

Don't forget to compare the price of them at Amazon too..with free prime shipping, it can work out cheaper than Rock at times depending on what the stuff is and where rock is shipping it from.



That's what I was just doing; however, my sister would have to order them because I don't have a prime account. They seem to be the same price but with no shipping.

So, this is what I got,

LCA Ball Joint:
Left Lower, #K7023
Right Lower, #K7021

or

Left Lower, #K787
Right Lower, #K785

I can't seem to notice a difference on these besides part number...

Idler Arm:
#K7042

Pitman Arm:
#K7074

Does anyone know if I put 1 in the quantity that 2 idler/pitman arms will show up or do I have to put 2 in the quantity?
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/23/14 02:43 AM

Quote:

Assuming you have the 73+ A-body knuckles, you just want to order the parts for a '73 Dart 318

Inner Tie Rod:ES401L
Outer Tie Rod:ES401R

Left Lower Ball Joint: K783
Right Lower Ball Joint: K781



Doh... Totally forgot to mention I was using 73+ A-body knuckles. Thanks for catching me.

Now, the TVS comes with adjustable tie rods, does that mean I'm not going to need one of the two tie rods?
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/23/14 02:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Don't forget to compare the price of them at Amazon too..with free prime shipping, it can work out cheaper than Rock at times depending on what the stuff is and where rock is shipping it from.



That's what I was just doing; however, my sister would have to order them because I don't have a prime account. They seem to be the same price but with no shipping.

So, this is what I got,

LCA Ball Joint:
Left Lower, #K7023
Right Lower, #K7021

or

Left Lower, #K787
Right Lower, #K785

I can't seem to notice a difference on these besides part number...

Idler Arm:
#K7042

Pitman Arm:
#K7074

Does anyone know if I put 1 in the quantity that 2 idler/pitman arms will show up or do I have to put 2 in the quantity?



You only need 1 idler arm and 1 pitman arm per car. Pitman is on the steering box, idler is on the k-frame. You were probably thinking tie rod ends.

All parts sold individually
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/23/14 02:47 AM

So...In your case just so we're clear.

Pitman and Idler arm for your original application, '68 Dart
Tie rods could be for either '68 or '73, they are the same
Lower Ball joints are 73 with disk brakes.

Hope your TVS has the large ball joints for the later application.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/23/14 03:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Don't forget to compare the price of them at Amazon too..with free prime shipping, it can work out cheaper than Rock at times depending on what the stuff is and where rock is shipping it from.



That's what I was just doing; however, my sister would have to order them because I don't have a prime account. They seem to be the same price but with no shipping.

So, this is what I got,

LCA Ball Joint:
Left Lower, #K7023
Right Lower, #K7021

or

Left Lower, #K787
Right Lower, #K785

I can't seem to notice a difference on these besides part number...

Idler Arm:
#K7042

Pitman Arm:
#K7074

Does anyone know if I put 1 in the quantity that 2 idler/pitman arms will show up or do I have to put 2 in the quantity?



You only need 1 idler arm and 1 pitman arm per car. Pitman is on the steering box, idler is on the k-frame. You were probably thinking tie rod ends.

All parts sold individually



Just to make sure I get this right. This is a a front end assembly out of '71 Demon I have at home... The TVS comes with adjustable tie rods, tubular UCA (for larger ball joints), and strut rods. So would I need to replace the inner and outers? What's considered the inner and outers?

Here's a link to the TVS instructions manual. If I think, what you think, the inner and outer tie rods are, I don't think I need them...

http://www.hotchkis.net/_uploaded_files/80113.pdf

Attached picture 8248816-20140209_093823.jpg
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/23/14 03:08 AM

Yeah, you got it.

So you'd only need idler and pitman arms and some lower ball joints. I forgot about the full TVS having the rod end tie rod setup. I wasn't planning on using that on my own car (buying components only)
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/23/14 03:18 AM

So final parts list:

Ball Joints: #K783 and #K781
Idler Arm: #K7042
Pitman Arm: #K7074
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/23/14 03:55 PM

The tie rod assembly you have circled is made up of an inner tie rod, an adjusting sleeve, and an outer tie rod.

If you're rebuilding your front end it makes sense to replace these parts. The joints will get sloppy with wear, just like a ball joint.



Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/23/14 05:47 PM

Quote:

The tie rod assembly you have circled is made up of an inner tie rod, an adjusting sleeve, and an outer tie rod.

If you're rebuilding your front end it makes sense to replace these parts. The joints will get sloppy with wear, just like a ball joint.







I figured that out when I took a look at them in the garage but the TVS comes with tie rods...

http://www.hotchkis.net/mopar_abody_adjustable_steering_rod_kit.html
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/28/14 05:57 AM

Got the rest of my front end parts yesterday. I'm trying to see if I can find a friend who's free this Friday and Saturday to help me take it apart and hopefully start putting it back together, but I may end up doing it alone. For now, I'm going to be looking at some Youtube videos and my service manual.

Thursday I'll take it to the local car cruise one last time and then drive it over to the local do-it-yourself car wash and clean out as much gunk as I can from the bottom.

Then the tear down begins. I'm not going to lie, but I'm a little nervous.
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/28/14 06:01 AM

The front end is easy if you have the correct suspension tools. I have the American Muscle Suspension Tool kit and its a piece of cake!
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/28/14 06:14 AM

Quote:

The front end is easy if you have the correct suspension tools. I have the American Muscle Suspension Tool kit and its a piece of cake!




Yeah, I know I don't have the right tools. Looking at that kit, I don't know how many of those I'd need right now besides maybe the T-bar remover, LCA sleeve remover, and LCA pivot remover. I probably should order it and try to get it in soon. I think I'm going to get stuck on this portion because of lack of tools unless I can try borrowing some from a friend.

How do you remove the lock ring on the T-bars? Should I be installing new boots?

Would it be a bad idea to just remove the UCA, brake, and spindle assembly as one piece just for ease? I'm not going to be reusing any of those parts for the Dart.

I found these videos to be pretty decent refrences...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YNoYLVX7TE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxi_bOTfrM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ-K6BiKido
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/28/14 06:23 AM

Yeah I would get the proper suspension tools, doesn't have to be that tool kit but the right tools always makes life easier. You can make a torsion bar remover just make sure not to nick the bar itself. I actually had to get longer bolts to get 1.12 bars in. I used needle nose pliers to get the clips off the torsion bars I never had lock rings. New boots would be nice to have. I would remove everything in one piece also.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/28/14 06:44 AM

I think I may give my uncle a call. He may have some tools and I'd assume he's bored out of his mind these days and wants to work on something.

I'm thinking I may need to dissassemble the front suspension this weekend and put it back together later next weekend. I still have to install the bushings in the LCA. Maybe I'll just look for a good, local machine shop and drop them off after work one day and pick them up the next day.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/29/14 06:17 AM

I called my uncle and we're going to try to find a day to get it torn apart this weekend. I just realized it's labor day weekend. If I had a press, I could have done the LCA bushings and pins and started the reinstallation.
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/29/14 10:42 PM

Quote:

If I had a press,




<cough>


<cough>



Posted By: PHJ426

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/29/14 11:09 PM

Actually I have done the LCA bushing removal without a press. Been awhile but get the largest size threaded rod that fits through the LCA bushing, some pipe nipples the inner LCA bushing can be pushed into, then a pipe reducer bushing of some kind to step that into or a pipe cap with a hole for the threaded rod to pass through, an assortment of washers and nuts.

You can push the old center of the bushing out like that with an impact. If I stumble upon this in my toolbox I will post a picture of it.

This will leave the original LCA bushing shell in the LCA if you do it right. If your replacing with OEM rubber LCA bushing then you can bend the shell of the bushing in with some chisels and a persuader.

Don't let not having a press intimidate you.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/29/14 11:15 PM

Quote:

Actually I have done the LCA bushing removal without a press. Been awhile but get the largest size threaded rod that fits through the LCA bushing, some pipe nipples the inner LCA bushing can be pushed into, then a pipe reducer bushing of some kind to step that into or a pipe cap with a hole for the threaded rod to pass through, an assortment of washers and nuts.

You can push the old center of the bushing out like that with an impact. If I stumble upon this in my toolbox I will post a picture of it.

This will leave the original LCA bushing shell in the LCA if you do it right. If your replacing with OEM rubber LCA bushing then you can bend the shell of the bushing in with some chisels and a persuader.

Don't let not having a press intimidate you.



Too bad I don't have threaded rod, pipe nipples ( ), a pipe reducer bushing, or an impact.

They're not rubber bushing. They're Hotchkis' polyurethane bushings.
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/30/14 12:53 AM

I did mine with a Benzomatic in the alley......
Posted By: PHJ426

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/30/14 01:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Actually I have done the LCA bushing removal without a press. Been awhile but get the largest size threaded rod that fits through the LCA bushing, some pipe nipples the inner LCA bushing can be pushed into, then a pipe reducer bushing of some kind to step that into or a pipe cap with a hole for the threaded rod to pass through, an assortment of washers and nuts.

You can push the old center of the bushing out like that with an impact. If I stumble upon this in my toolbox I will post a picture of it.

This will leave the original LCA bushing shell in the LCA if you do it right. If your replacing with OEM rubber LCA bushing then you can bend the shell of the bushing in with some chisels and a persuader.

Don't let not having a press intimidate you.



Too bad I don't have threaded rod, pipe nipples ( ), a pipe reducer bushing, or an impact.

They're not rubber bushing. They're Hotchkis' polyurethane bushings.



You first have to remove the factory rubber bushings before installing the poly....

They do have hardware stores by your house? You can put all that together at a local Home Depot or Ace for well under $15.00

An Impact can be rented or just muscle it out with a 1/2" breaker bar.....

Since your going with the Poly bushing you need to leave the outer sleeve in the LCA for the poly to be pressed into.

I just pulled a set of rubber bushing out of a rack and pinion rack using the above described method once again last week. These were smaller and I used a larger 1/2" drive socket to push the bushing into....used a 3/8" ratchet and a combination wrench to muscle them out ....it's not that difficult .
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/31/14 05:05 AM

So I got a lot of work done today. I called my friend over, he's got a '71 Demon, and in 4 hours we tore apart the entire front and rear suspension. The car is a hovercraft now. Anyways, when I was taking apart the front, I noticed the LCA bump stop was just chilling on the driver's side and the spot welds that held that bracket on the LCA had broke. Luckily I've got extras or could have my friend reweld them on. I figure since the LCA's are out, I might as well get stiffening plates. We also are going to have to make new lines in the front. The fittings that connect to the front brake hoses were rounded off so we had to cut the line. The way we're probably going to do it is run the line around the core support to clean up the firewall a bit. We might even add a line lock just for fun. Besides that, there were really no bad issues. Everything was pretty straight forward. I've got a lot of degreasing to do under there because it's disgusting. We were black afterwards.

A friend of mine also has some Bullit Mustang wheels lying in his garage. They're 17 x 8" and have 245/45/17's on the front and possibly 275/40/17's on the rear so they'd be good wheels for a mach up.

Next weekend, we'll probably install the rear end and leaf springs.

I just have to remember that anything I order, I have to make sure it gets in by Friday.

So things on the To Do List...
1) Degrease/clean
2) Plate and install new bushings in the LCA's
3) Redo the front lines and possibly add a line lock
4) Install 8 3/4 rear end with leaf springs.
5) Cut and balance driveshaft
6) Install front suspension and brakes
7) Borrow friends Bullit Mustang wheels and measure wheel size.

I just have a couple questions...

Since I'm going to be ordering some parts, should I install new/smaller bump stops? Does anyone know which bumpstops to purchase from Summit? I found these Energy Suspension ones for the LCA's, I believe... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ens-9-9121g None are in stock apparently so can/should I hold off on that?

Also, for sure, do I need a distribution block? I can just insert a T-fitting for the fronts and have my rear lines continue to the rear?

Does anyone know where I can purchase some CAM bolts? Mine are pretty greasy and gunked up.

Is there anything else you think I'm forgetting or you would like to add?

Thanks for all your help and support.

Attached picture 8256454-unnamed.jpg
Posted By: PHJ426

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/31/14 01:57 PM

Line lock is not required if you have the HP to turn the tires you should have enough HP do a standard brake torque to slip past the drum brake. Unless your engine is making extremely low HP and your installing some 11 inch slicks in the rear I think your fine without it.

I would use the factory bump stops since your going will all stock components.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 08/31/14 10:13 PM

Quote:

Line lock is not required if you have the HP to turn the tires you should have enough HP do a standard brake torque to slip past the drum brake. Unless your engine is making extremely low HP and your installing some 11 inch slicks in the rear I think your fine without it.

I would use the factory bump stops since your going will all stock components.



Well, I do plan/hope on fitting a 255 to 275 series tire under there. Still not sure about future engine and trans possibilities.

I just thought I should probably get shorter LCA bumpstops since I'll be lowering the front of my car at least an inch or so.
Posted By: moparpollack

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/02/14 05:28 AM

Quote:

I did mine with a Benzomatic in the alley......



My friend was a front end and frame mechanic for forty years it's the only way to do it.

As far as taking it apart it unscrews and a BFH des the rest.

It is to far now but why not only do one end at a time?
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/02/14 05:39 AM

Quote:

It is to far now but why not only do one end at a time?



It was a spur of the moment decision. We wanted to get as much work done as possible so each of us worked on either side of the car. Anyways, it wouldn't have mattered because then one side would have been bbp while the other sbp.
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/02/14 04:39 PM

Don't let it stall. Get that car back on the ground ASAP.
Posted By: 340duster340

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/03/14 12:47 AM

Quote:

Don't let it stall. Get that car back on the ground ASAP.



agreed 4 jack stands = kiss of death for many projects
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/03/14 03:14 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Don't let it stall. Get that car back on the ground ASAP.



agreed 4 jack stands = kiss of death for many projects



I know... I know... The added pressure doesn't help. I'm still a little scarred from the last time I did the brakes. The plans for Friday are installing the 8 3/4 (w/ leaf springs of course) and getting a majority of the lines figured out and redone.
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/03/14 05:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Don't let it stall. Get that car back on the ground ASAP.



agreed 4 jack stands = kiss of death for many projects



I know... I know... The added pressure doesn't help. I'm still a little scarred from the last time I did the brakes. The plans for Friday are installing the 8 3/4 (w/ leaf springs of course) and getting a majority of the lines figured out and redone.



Leave the rear end alone. That's the easy bit.

Get the hard stuff out of the way now while you have a bit of momentum.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/03/14 07:04 AM

Quote:

Leave the rear end alone. That's the easy bit.

Get the hard stuff out of the way now while you have a bit of momentum.



Define "hard stuff" so I have an idea of what I should be worried about.
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/03/14 09:09 PM

The rear diff, springs, and brakes are easy. You can knock that out in an hour if you know what you're doing and have all the parts.

The front end is more complicated due to having more fiddly bits and dealing with alignment. A seasoned pro can knock one out quickly but someone just starting out will likely take a full day once everything is on hand.

One thing I will suggest is a quick and dirty alignment. Once the tires look like they are more or less straight up and down you need to look at toe.

Lift each front tire off the ground. Grab a screwdriver and hold it steady. Spin the tire and let the pointy tip of the screwdriver drag along the tire somewhere in the middle of the tread. Done right it will scribe a line around the tire.

Do this on both sides.

Put the car on the ground and bounce the suspension a bit to settle things.

Slide a tape measure under the car to your friend on the other side.

Measure the distance between the marks on the tires in the front and rear. Adjust your tie rods until the measurements are the same.

*POOF*

You just did a quickie alignment good enough to get you to an alignment shop without trashing your new tires.

Note that the marks do not have to be on the same portion of the tread for left and right. As long as you scribe a perfect ring and don't wobble about you're fine.
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/03/14 10:43 PM

Quote:

...
Put the car on the ground and bounce the suspension a bit to settle things.
...



I would add to roll the car forward and backward a few feet before the front suspension and wheels take a settling.
Posted By: Birdturd

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/03/14 11:11 PM

Jumping back to your brake lines if you add a tee to to supply the rear you might look at getting an brake bias adjuster plumbed in, that way you can dial in how much rear brake you need.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/04/14 02:47 AM

Quote:

The rear diff, springs, and brakes are easy. You can knock that out in an hour if you know what you're doing and have all the parts.

The front end is more complicated due to having more fiddly bits and dealing with alignment. A seasoned pro can knock one out quickly but someone just starting out will likely take a full day once everything is on hand.

One thing I will suggest is a quick and dirty alignment. Once the tires look like they are more or less straight up and down you need to look at toe.

Lift each front tire off the ground. Grab a screwdriver and hold it steady. Spin the tire and let the pointy tip of the screwdriver drag along the tire somewhere in the middle of the tread. Done right it will scribe a line around the tire.

Do this on both sides.

Put the car on the ground and bounce the suspension a bit to settle things.

Slide a tape measure under the car to your friend on the other side.

Measure the distance between the marks on the tires in the front and rear. Adjust your tie rods until the measurements are the same.

*POOF*

You just did a quickie alignment good enough to get you to an alignment shop without trashing your new tires.

Note that the marks do not have to be on the same portion of the tread for left and right. As long as you scribe a perfect ring and don't wobble about you're fine.



Thank you... Those are all good to note and I like your quick-e alignment job. There's a pretty good alignment shop about 2-3 miles from my house.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/04/14 02:50 AM

Quote:

Jumping back to your brake lines if you add a tee to to supply the rear you might look at getting an brake bias adjuster plumbed in, that way you can dial in how much rear brake you need.



I've asked this question a couple times, both here and in the Q&A forum, and it is so hard to get a straight answer. So T fitting for the front and an adjustable valve before the rear distribution T for the rear, correct?
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/04/14 02:58 AM

Quote:


I've asked this question a couple times, both here and in the Q&A forum, and it is so hard to get a straight answer. So T fitting for the front and an adjustable valve before the rear distribution T for the rear, correct?



Yes, you can do that. I would keep the factory distribution block as it makes it easier (and keeps the brake warning light). Just make sure you take out the factory prop valve (a separate brass piece mounted in the rear line after the distribution block since you have the K-H disks) and replace it with the adjustable valve.

Also, remember that the output from the Master Cylinder nearest to the firewall is the front brakes.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/04/14 03:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:


I've asked this question a couple times, both here and in the Q&A forum, and it is so hard to get a straight answer. So T fitting for the front and an adjustable valve before the rear distribution T for the rear, correct?



Yes, you can do that. I would keep the factory distribution block as it makes it easier (and keeps the brake warning light). Just make sure you take out the factory prop valve (a separate brass piece mounted in the rear line after the distribution block since you have the K-H disks) and replace it with the adjustable valve.

Also, remember that the output from the Master Cylinder nearest to the firewall is the front brakes.



I knew there was supposed to be the factory prop valve further down the line as I've heard of other people's woes when they try the KH swap; however, my friend told me that the lines going to the rear look fairly new so I'd have to check to see if the previous owners moved it over or just got rid of it (you know the quality of their "engineering"). So really, there's no need to swap the factory distribution block, because if not, that's one less thing to change/purchase.

Also, my friend made lines that on his Demon that had the lines moving from the distribution block, to the core support and then coming back to the passenger side instead of snaking through the firewall. If I do it this way, should I be worried about line pressure as the line going to the passenger side may end up being a couple feet longer. Basic fluid dynamics state the longer the line, the more losses a fluid endures as it travels it.
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/04/14 03:17 AM

Quote:


I knew there was supposed to be the factory prop valve further down the line as I've heard of other people's woes when they try the KH swap; however, my friend told me that the lines going to the rear look fairly new so I'd have to check to see if the previous owners moved it over or just got rid of it (you know the quality of their "engineering"). So really, there's no need to swap the factory distribution block, because if not, that's one less thing to change/purchase.

Also, my friend made lines that on his Demon that had the lines moving from the distribution block, to the core support and then coming back to the passenger side instead of snaking through the firewall. If I do it this way, should I be worried about line pressure as the line going to the passenger side may end up being a couple feet longer. Basic fluid dynamics state the longer the line, the more losses a fluid endures as it travels it.



Right, the factory block is basically empty and is basically a convenient T fitting with a warning light unless its a 73+ car.

As far as the length of the line - you are mentioning the resistance to flow caused by length and bends, but this really isn't a concern with incompressible fluids and relatively small amounts of flow. We're talking a front caliper using maybe 4cc of fluid at 200 bar. The longer line may cause a very small amount of hydraulic delay, but I would not be concerned. Pressure will of course be the same in a steady state apply. The current 300/Charger/Challenger have very long TMC to ESC module pipes and also pipes that run from the ESC module to the left front wheel that are also very long and run across the core support.

That being said, I see no reason to remove them from the firewall. If anything, the firewall allows you to use less tube, has hangars, and is less likely to flex ever.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/04/14 03:21 AM

Quote:

That being said, I see no reason to remove them from the firewall. If anything, the firewall allows you to use less tube, has hangars, and is less likely to flex ever.



The guy in question is a perfectionist and gives a lot of time and attention to detail. When he did his Demon, he virtually wanted to have the cleanest firewall possible.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/04/14 03:36 AM

Can anyone recommend me an adjustable valve I can purchase? Summit maybe? Or is this something I can pick up at Autozone?
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/04/14 03:54 AM

Quote:

Can anyone recommend me an adjustable valve I can purchase? Summit maybe? Or is this something I can pick up at Autozone?



Summit seems to sell these kits with a knob I guess you mount on your dash. They look interesting to say the least. I doubt I'd adjust it much at all unless I get serious at the track.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/depar...Order=Ascending
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/04/14 04:00 AM

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3905

That's really all you need. It's identical to the wilwood one. I have the older version.

You'll only need to really set it up once. A wet or loose stone road...make sure the fronts lock with the rears or just slightly before the rears.
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/04/14 04:11 AM

Quote:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3905

That's really all you need. It's identical to the wilwood one. I have the older version.





That's what I had in the hot rod.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/04/14 04:28 AM

Quote:

Quote:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3905

That's really all you need. It's identical to the wilwood one. I have the older version.





That's what I had in the hot rod.



Sweet! Exactly what I was looking for.
Posted By: 340duster340

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/06/14 04:17 AM

there is another style prop valve that has the rear adjust and front T integrated into one unit

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-260-11179/overview/

but...FWIW, if it were my car, i would run a 73-6 disc prop valve (you can get them new on ebay for $79), and order pre-bent lines for a 73 duster and get the thing back together.
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/06/14 04:54 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3905

That's really all you need. It's identical to the wilwood one. I have the older version.





That's what I had in the hot rod.



Sweet! Exactly what I was looking for.



If you haven't ordered it yet, think I might have an old one you can have I had pulled out of some car or other.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/06/14 07:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g3905

That's really all you need. It's identical to the wilwood one. I have the older version.





That's what I had in the hot rod.



Sweet! Exactly what I was looking for.



If you haven't ordered it yet, think I might have an old one you can have I had pulled out of some car or other.



I already ordered it and it came in today.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/06/14 07:44 AM

I didn't get as much done as I wanted to today, but any progress is better than no progress. We started just checking everything on the calipers and making sure everything cleared. I ended up removing all my caliper spacers as we noticed that the rotors would hit the inside of the caliper. After that we started working on redoing the rear lines. My friend's flaring tool (manual/mechanical) didn't like the plastic coating it's got on the lines. We even sanded it off and tried it but the flares were sub-par. So we're going to borrow another one of my friend's hydraulic flaring tool and hopefully that should do the trick. We also decided to throw the rear end under the car. It was actually quite a bit more work than expecting but we finally fit it.

Tomorrow our goal is to finish the lines that go on the differential and start the lines up front. I decided to just copy the factory lines and have it follow the path on the firewall. The new proportioning valve and line-lock (burnout button) came in today as well as some bump stops and other small goodies.

Attached picture 8262492-rearendin.jpg
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/06/14 07:44 AM

Another one head on. I know... that exhaust has got to go in the near future.

Attached picture 8262493-discbrakeincar.jpg
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/06/14 10:44 PM

Got a little more work done today. We finished the lines on the differential, installed the shocks, and torqued everything down. We were having trouble removing the lines from the distribution block up front. There's not much room to clear a wrench between the steering box and the exhaust. So, we may just end up cutting it and going over to the original idea of bringing the line around the frame rails and core support with a T-block. While we're at it we're going to have to redo the lines that go from the front to the rear to the car as they cross the path of the subframe connectors.

I also am going to start cleaning the LCA's sometime this week. I've still got to remove the strut rods (don't have the tooling to get enough torque to remove the nut), weld on a bumpstop bracket (the spot welds broke off), weld on the stiffening plates, and install the pin and bushings. Once the front lines are done, the front suspension can slowly be assembled.

All the work isn't going to get done before the September 25th, but hopefully we can finish it off before Fall Fling, October 25th.
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/06/14 10:56 PM

Cut the lines off near the nuts and then put a socket over them. You're tossing them anyway, so why not?
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/06/14 10:57 PM

Quote:

Cut the lines off near the nuts and then put a socket over them. You're tossing them anyway, so why not?



Good point...
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/09/14 02:48 AM

Got a little more done today... My friend made the lines that go from the MC to the prop valve and line lock for a quick mock* up. The mounting bracket will be a plate connected to the MC bolt and sandwiched between the two. We ran out of lines and fittings today so tomorrow we're going to head to NAPA and see what they've got. We've already emptied out Autozone over the weekend even though they didn't have much.

I also started cleaning up and degreasing the LCA's. The stiffening plates should be here tomorrow so hopefully we can have the new bushings, pins, and plate welded in by Wed or Th.

While I was removing the distribution block today (after all the lines were cut), I wasn't paying attention while I was unscrewing the bracket that holds the block and it fell on my head. I only bled for a minute or so.

Attached picture 8264898-MC,Linelock,andPropValve.jpg
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/09/14 04:10 PM

Quote:

I wasn't paying attention while I was unscrewing the bracket that holds the block and it fell on my head. I only bled for a minute or so.



To bad it wasn't heavy enough to knock some sense into you.

Posted By: moparx

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/10/14 03:01 AM

how bad did the bracket get bent up ? my old man always said to me : "i didn't feel a thing !" and : "it will feel good when it quits hurtin' !"
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/10/14 04:53 AM

Quote:

how bad did the bracket get bent up ? my old man always said to me : "i didn't feel a thing !" and : "it will feel good when it quits hurtin' !"




Well, the bracket was connected to the distribution block so it felt like someone dropped a distribution block on my head. After the hit I felt my head and saw "red stuff" on my fingers. By the time I looked at the mirror 30 seconds later there was blood dripping down my forehead about 2" wide. It stopped soon after that. I tried to find the cut today and it was super tiny.
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/10/14 06:50 AM

Head wounds bleed we out of proportion to their size. You'd be surprised to know how small an opening is for a typical nose bleed. The blood just comes out with enthusiasm.

Wait until you're under the car and move quickly. You bang your head on something, instinctively jerk away, and smash your head on the concrete.

Owies on both ends of the noggin are no fun but it's all part of being a car guy.
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/10/14 09:26 AM

I would say it's time to increase the space between car and concrete and just get a car-lift.
Although if you then smack your head against the car AND the concrete, you'll have more serious injuries to worry about...
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/10/14 05:25 PM

Quote:

You bang your head on something, instinctively jerk away, and smash your head on the concrete.



That is why working on carpet tiles is sure nice.

Next time you are at an airport I highly recommend grabbing a handful.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/12/14 04:37 AM

So, I stopped by an offroading shop today to buy the last of the brake parts. I bought my T block and some "clips" to hold the hard lines across the body. The clips are way over built (they're machined aluminum parts) and were extremely stupid expensive so I hope I don't use all of them so I can return a majority of them.

I also went to OzHemi's house today after work and had him weld up my LCA braces and one of the bump stops that broke off one of the arms. It's crazy how there was literally no slop in either of the arms.

Attached picture 8268089-LCAbrace.jpg
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/12/14 05:07 AM

I've seen better welding by a red headed step...


Oh, nevermind.






The LCAs should not have any notable flex in them before welding. If they do move about I've move 'em to the curb!

The stresses placed on them in operation will twist them around a bit. The plates reduce that movement a wee bit.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/12/14 05:18 AM

Quote:

The LCAs should not have any notable flex in them before welding. If they do move about I've move 'em to the curb!

The stresses placed on them in operation will twist them around a bit. The plates reduce that movement a wee bit.



The "slop" I was referring to was with regards to the torsion bar mount/adjuster pivot. Before we welded them there was no slop. I'm curious how much better these will help. It will definitely be hard to notice since I'm redoing the whole suspension.
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/12/14 02:47 PM

Mine had a bit of slop on one side and a minimal amount on the other.

Yours could either be in good shape or squished a bit. There's no telling what happened with those bits hanging under the car for 50 years.
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/12/14 06:03 PM

Quote:

I've seen better welding by a red headed step...


Oh, nevermind.








The fumes of burning the old bushings out didn't help..
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/13/14 06:59 AM

Got some more work done today. I spent some time with the suspension while my friend worked on the lines a little bit more.

So suspension wise, my focus was on the LCA's. I was able to paint them, install the bushing and greasable pins, and install the bump stops (itty bitty ones from Energy Suspension). They came out pretty darn good. (The flash in a dark room makes them look like there's primer everywhere).



I was also able to install some rod end boots on my UCA's just as a little security precaution...



So for the brake lines we decided to go with the frame rail idea and here's the path we took...







The front to rear lines are going to mount on the inner side of the subframe connectors and connect to the back. The passenger side still isn't done but it's going to be made similar to the driver side.

Also as a cool, quick, little fact. I had 0.87" T-bars (which I believe are 340 car size) in my car just because it had AC. I just thought that was kind of neat.
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/13/14 03:14 PM

Quote:








You're going to need someone with a bigger foot to mash the gas in that thing.


Posted By: PHJ426

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/13/14 03:54 PM

On the subject of LCA's that need to be tightened up refer to Jim Lusk's video here. Some can be repaired don't throw em all away.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwes-SP8u4w
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/13/14 04:47 PM

Quote:

You're going to need someone with a bigger foot to mash the gas in that thing.






Well, my legs are the size of tree trunks so I think I should be fine for now.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/13/14 04:48 PM

Quote:

On the subject of LCA's that need to be tightened up refer to Jim Lusk's video here. Some can be repaired don't throw em all away.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwes-SP8u4w



I've seen Jim's video quite a few times.
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/14/14 12:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

You're going to need someone with a bigger foot to mash the gas in that thing.






Well, my legs are the size of saplings so I think I should be fine for now.




Posted By: moparx

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/14/14 02:11 PM

that's a pretty neat line splitter you used for the front brakes. where did you get it ?
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/14/14 05:35 PM

Quote:

that's a pretty neat line splitter you used for the front brakes. where did you get it ?




You're talking about the red T-block, right? I got it from an offroading shop near me called McKenzies. It was around $10 or so. They don't list it on their website that I can see.

http://www.mckenzies.com/default.asp
Posted By: roadrunninMark

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/14/14 10:15 PM

Muu, are you using the hydro boost with the 15/16 m/c? What did you get the hydro boost out of?
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/15/14 06:08 AM

Quote:

Muu, are you using the hydro boost with the 15/16 m/c? What did you get the hydro boost out of?



Right now, no hydroboost. I've got a 1 1/32" bore MC on there now. If the pedal is too stiff, I'll probably go down to a 15/16" MC and go from there.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/19/14 02:03 AM

Was doing some work on the Dart today. Got some brake clips in to hold the hard lines. Unfortunately I messed up and set myself back another week. Before I bought my brakes I had bought "restored" 73+ A body Drum brake spindles thinking they'd work with the Doctor Diff kit. Nope, I was stupid and didn't look over the website carefully. Now I've got to order some Repro disc brake spindles tonight. Anyways, after closer inspection, the threads on the spindles I have were a little banged up and had parts of it had been grinded. I've also been stressing too much over which wheels I should get.

This is going to be difficult. School starts a week from today. I've got to get this car on the road before Oct 25 (Fall Fling).
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/19/14 03:36 AM

you can still basically put the entire front end together minus the spindles and tensioning the torsion bars. Once the spindles arrive, it will be cake. All that would be left is installing the brake kit and welding on the sway bar tabs in the front. You could have the rear complete as well before then.

Just keep plugging away at it.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/19/14 05:34 AM

Quote:

you can still basically put the entire front end together minus the spindles and tensioning the torsion bars. Once the spindles arrive, it will be cake. All that would be left is installing the brake kit and welding on the sway bar tabs in the front. You could have the rear complete as well before then.

Just keep plugging away at it.



I just ordered the spindle should be here in 3 business days, so I'm assuming around Wed next week.

We already hand tightened the pitman and idler arm to the steering linkages and K frame. Tomorrow we're going to install the LCA and strut rods (maybe even the torsion bars). One problem we had with the LCA pins is that the pins kept on spinning in the bushing (already greased) when we tried tightening it. We figured that the pin wasn't completely seated in the bushing and are going to try to seat them tomorrow. The rear of the car is already completely complete.

We'd like to do the front brakes off the car and on the spindles as it's easier to work with. Besides that, I need wheels and tires (been stressing me out lately for whatever reason), I need a new driveshaft cut/made, and subframe connectors welded in (our new brake lines are going to mount to them). Sway bars can hold off for a little while as they shouldn't effect the alignment after installation.
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/20/14 12:05 AM

The combination of the Knuckles, hubs, bearings, rotors, calipers, and lower ball joint together is one big heavy mess, probably in the 60-80 lb range. Personally, I'd mount the knuckles up first and assemble from there, especially considering the LBJ has to be assembled first and the taper points up.

For the LCA pins, you'd probably want to use a block of wood and try to bash them in a little bit to get it to stick on the taper until you can tighten.

The whole wheel thing is complicated because of the A-body rear axle...the front track is probably still a significant difference from the rear. After reading your other topics, looks like the Darts have less room in both the front and rear than a Duster. I'm looking to measure with my wheel-rite and probably go with 275-35-18 on 18x9 +35 offset (6.4 backspace) wheels, and maybe a small spacer with my factory 11.75 fronts.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/20/14 12:33 AM

Quote:

The combination of the Knuckles, hubs, bearings, rotors, calipers, and lower ball joint together is one big heavy mess, probably in the 60-80 lb range. Personally, I'd mount the knuckles up first and assemble from there, especially considering the LBJ has to be assembled first and the taper points up.



Thinking about it, the hub and rotor assembly was already pretty heavy.

Quote:

For the LCA pins, you'd probably want to use a block of wood and try to bash them in a little bit to get it to stick on the taper until you can tighten.



We're working on it right now. Hitting the LCA with a mallet trying to get the pins to stick. I may pm Dan real quick.

Quote:

The whole wheel thing is complicated because of the A-body rear axle...the front track is probably still a significant difference from the rear. After reading your other topics, looks like the Darts have less room in both the front and rear than a Duster. I'm looking to measure with my wheel-rite and probably go with 275-35-18 on 18x9 +35 offset (6.4 backspace) wheels, and maybe a small spacer with my factory 11.75 fronts.



I'm still on the hunt. The offset thing is definitely a PIA. I'm thinking 18 x 9.5" for now with a 245/40/18.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/20/14 12:49 AM

Through some research, apparently vice grips are required for the pins.
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/20/14 01:11 AM

Just shot a reply to your PM. If you'd like, you can share it here. I forgot to copy it before I sent it.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/20/14 01:14 AM

Dan's reply to the pins...

Quote:

You'll want to install the Torsion bars and then bang them in with a large punch from behind. Make sure the pin is fully seated. Then tighten the best you can (but not all the way). Load the suspension (weight of the vehicle) then fully tighten the pin. It can get fun, best of luck.



Too bad my friend just left. He had to go home to attend to his dogs (no one's home) but I think we're just going to leave this for next week when the spindles come in. Brakes shouldn't take too long so I'm going to need wheels asap.
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/20/14 03:21 AM

Ive never had the pin issue, I have FF pins and just hit them with my impact, zip zoop done.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 09/23/14 01:33 AM

Got some more work out today. I removed the driveshaft (making a big ATF mess ) and my friend and I cut the ends, measured what we need to, and the ends should be shipped to member Old Goat to have a new driveshaft made.

Also, we brought out a punch and a BFH for the pins and started hammering the back side so that we'd can start tightening them down. This method did work out great. Only problem we had was at a point the nut bottomed out on the threads before the pin fully seated in the K-frame so we added the oem washers underneath the Hotchkis washers. We still have full thread engagement on the nut (about 3-4 threads showing).

I've been juggling back and forth between Cass and I regarding tracking numbers. He had to drop ship them from the supplier so they may get here later in the week. Hopefully brakes will probably be done by Saturday. I'll do some quick measurements and I'll order my wheels.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/20/14 03:09 AM



Attached picture 8367685-20141219_161809.jpg
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/20/14 03:32 AM

Looks good! Don't shoot your car
We have all been (or still are) there and know the frustration
when you finally get everything together though the feeling is awesome!
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/20/14 04:13 AM

I like how Hotchkis positioned the upper ball joint, at droop it isn't pretty but still OK, but at a lower than stock ride height I bet it is in the sweet spot.
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/20/14 04:35 AM

Quote:





You sure that's on the right side?

Might be an optical illusion but it looks like negative caster to me.
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/20/14 04:44 AM

Watch your clocking on the strut heim as well. You should tighten everything down at or about ride height and make sure that all the heims are in a neutral position.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/20/14 05:01 AM

Quote:





I wanna see this with rear mounted high performance brake calipers. I've never seen an A-body Hotchkis Upper Control arm with anything but a stock caliper and rotor 11.75" or 10.75"

BTW you cant run rear mounted 11.75" stock pin caliper setup with the Hotchkis Upper Control Arm.
Posted By: 340duster340

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/20/14 05:20 AM

its hard to tell from the pics, but is the bolt head for the lower ball joint facing in or out? it should be facing out. with the nut on the inner ball joint side.

either way, nice progress. its definitely a hurdle point so you'll back back on the road soon.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/20/14 09:44 AM

Quote:

its hard to tell from the pics, but is the bolt head for the lower ball joint facing in or out? it should be facing out. with the nut on the inner ball joint side.

either way, nice progress. its definitely a hurdle point so you'll back back on the road soon.



You saw it right. I thought that's how they were on my old brake package but it's an easy swap. Nothing is torqued down. Anyways, next week I'll call over my friend and we'll finish brakes and maybe suspension. Wheels won't ship till the 30th apparently.
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/20/14 04:15 PM

Quote:


I wanna see this with rear mounted high performance brake calipers. I've never seen an A-body Hotchkis Upper Control arm with anything but a stock caliper and rotor 11.75" or 10.75"

BTW you cant run rear mounted 11.75" stock pin caliper setup with the Hotchkis Upper Control Arm.



http://www.doctordiff.com/images/detailed/0/big-brake-kit2.jpg

I'd be test fitting the caliper on there stat because I'm kind of doubting it's not going to hit. My 11.75 Sliders hit basically 1/4" above full droop and I had to swap them to the front.

I know the Dr. Diff Cobra calipers will fit since there is a front mount option. Not sure about these.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/21/14 07:21 PM

Quote:

Watch your clocking on the strut heim as well. You should tighten everything down at or about ride height and make sure that all the heims are in a neutral position.



I didn't get around to clocking the strut heim and nothing is torqued down. Thanks for the heads up!
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/21/14 07:24 PM

Quote:

I wanna see this with rear mounted high performance brake calipers. I've never seen an A-body Hotchkis Upper Control arm with anything but a stock caliper and rotor 11.75" or 10.75"

BTW you cant run rear mounted 11.75" stock pin caliper setup with the Hotchkis Upper Control Arm.



Good point. I didn't think about that till you mentioned it. I know someone put this brake kit with the Cobra Calipers on a Duster, but I don't recall which UCA's he used. Maybe FirmFeel.
Posted By: prrc

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/21/14 11:14 PM

Why can't you run aftermarket rear mounted calipers with Hochkis UPC?
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/22/14 12:55 AM

Quote:

Why can't you run aftermarket rear mounted calipers with Hochkis UPC?



I don't know anyone that that's ran rear mount aftermarket. Muumuu is on uncharted ground.

But I have tried rear pin mounted caliper with 11.75" factory rotors and it did not work. It's because the rear leg of the Hotckiss UCA takes a rearward curve where most others are straight or slightly curved.
Posted By: prrc

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/22/14 05:01 AM

Hmm. Interesting. I have 13 wilwood 6 piston brakes going on a 65 Dart. I also have Hotchkis and SPC UPC arms. Have not mocked up either of them yet. But will more than likely us the SPC arms.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/22/14 05:22 AM

I'll try different configurations. If not, I'll try front mounting them and hopefully they shouldn't interfere with the sway bars.
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/23/14 06:26 PM

Quote:

I'll try different configurations. If not, I'll try front mounting them and hopefully they shouldn't interfere with the sway bars.



I doubt it would hit the hotchkis sway bar...if anything it would hit the strut rod. Doctor Diff says they must be rear mounted on the website. Maybe he knows the exact reason for that?
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/24/14 03:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I'll try different configurations. If not, I'll try front mounting them and hopefully they shouldn't interfere with the sway bars.



I doubt it would hit the hotchkis sway bar...if anything it would hit the strut rod. Doctor Diff says they must be rear mounted on the website. Maybe he knows the exact reason for that?



If that's the case, I'll have to either sell this brake kit and either buy a Viper/Wilwood kit or I'll have to sell these UCA's and install a Firm Feel or large ball joint set with MOOG offset bushings. I still have my large ball joint drum spindles. My friend and I are going to test fit the calipers tonight before we proceed with anything else.

Edit: Still waiting for my friend to arrive, but I bolted up the caliper. It definitely looks like the UCA is going to hit the caliper. Just by looking at it for a couple seconds, it doesn't seem like front mounting the calipers will interfere with the strut rods. I don't think it would be much of an issue so long as I keep my bleeders pointing up.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/24/14 03:40 AM

Calipers definitely hit. Can disc brake spindles be swapped from one side of the car to the other? According to my eye balls, it doesn't seem like the UCA ball joint is aligned with the spindle center.
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/24/14 04:08 AM

Quote:

Calipers definitely hit. Can disc brake spindles be swapped from one side of the car to the other? According to my eye balls, it doesn't seem like the UCA ball joint is aligned with the spindle center.



Yes, you can swap them...they are symmetrical.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/24/14 04:58 AM

So, my friend and I worked on the car for a couple hours tonight. While waiting for responses we were able to install the driveshaft made by Moparts member "old goat."

We roughly adjusted the tie rods so it wasn't toed out so much. We swapped spindles from side-to-side and mounted the calipers up front. At full lock, there was about 1-2" of room between the caliper and strut rods between full droop and full compression so it seems like it would work. Some brake lines will have to be remade though.

Attached picture 8371944-20141223_184611.jpg
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/24/14 05:24 AM

Quote:

Calipers definitely hit. Can disc brake spindles be swapped from one side of the car to the other? According to my eye balls, it doesn't seem like the UCA ball joint is aligned with the spindle center.



Yes you can switch spindles and your calipers will be mounted in the rear.

I was really worried 3 years ago when my stock rear mount calipers hit those Hotchkis UCA's. Hotchkis saw the interference first hand. I thought they were going to add that info to assembly instructions.

I just hoped an aftermarket caliper would clear. But I've been looking at Wilwood and DrDiff setups at shows for years and just knew I was hoping a square peg would fit a round hole.

My plan is to run front air ducts with rear mount aftermarket calipers. Running air ducts to the front is much cleaner than the rear. And I don't even think there is room with the shock to get a 3" duct to the rear.

This S*CKS
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/24/14 05:34 AM

Quote:

Yes you can switch spindles and your calipers will be mounted in the rear.

I was really worried 3 years ago when my stock rear mount calipers hit those Hotchkis UCA's. Hotchkis saw the interference first hand. I thought they were going to add that info to assembly instructions.

I just hoped an aftermarket caliper would clear. But I've been looking at Wilwood and DrDiff setups at shows for years and just knew I was hoping a square peg would fit a round hole.

My plan is to run front air ducts with rear mount aftermarket calipers. Running air ducts to the front is much cleaner than the rear. And I don't even think there is room with the shock to get a 3" duct to the rear.

This S*CKS



My friend jokingly asked me, "If you want, we can machine your caliper." I took a look at it and said, "What are you going to do, machine off the entire bleeder?" It was pretty bad. At full droop, the caliper didn't hit the UCA, but they overlapped by an inch or so.

What would be the issue with running a brake duct to the front of the rotor beneath the caliper?
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/24/14 05:52 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yes you can switch spindles and your calipers will be mounted in the rear.

I was really worried 3 years ago when my stock rear mount calipers hit those Hotchkis UCA's. Hotchkis saw the interference first hand. I thought they were going to add that info to assembly instructions.

I just hoped an aftermarket caliper would clear. But I've been looking at Wilwood and DrDiff setups at shows for years and just knew I was hoping a square peg would fit a round hole.

My plan is to run front air ducts with rear mount aftermarket calipers. Running air ducts to the front is much cleaner than the rear. And I don't even think there is room with the shock to get a 3" duct to the rear.

This S*CKS



My friend jokingly asked me, "If you want, we can machine your caliper." I took a look at it and said, "What are you going to do, machine off the entire bleeder?" It was pretty bad. At full droop, the caliper didn't hit the UCA, but they overlapped by an inch or so.

What would be the issue with running a brake duct to the front of the rotor beneath the caliper?



Is there that much room there to do that? Could you take a pic from the inside when you get the rotor on.

Also, a 3" duct will sit very low with the caliper up front. Most likely below the LCA.

What is also bad is if a customer was running a Hotchkis UCA with stock or non Hotchkis aftermarket front sway bar that mounts to the stock sway bar mount on the LCA. Those customers (potential customers) typically run the calipers to the rear. There are 4 combinations of that rear caliper setup:

rear pin calipers 10.75" rotor
rear pin calipers 11.75" rotor (I've tested, does not work)
rear slider caliper 10.75" rotor
rear slider caliper 11.75" rotor

I haven't tested the 3 other combinations. IMHO, it's a higher than 50/50 chance are they will not work.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/24/14 06:29 AM

Quote:

Is there that much room there to do that? Could you take a pic from the inside when you get the rotor on.

Also, a 3" duct will sit very low with the caliper up front. Most likely below the LCA.



I'll take some pictures when I put it together, possibly sometime next week. But I see what you mean, the brake ducts will hang a little low. How low is the question.

Quote:

What is also bad is if a customer was running a Hotchkis UCA with stock or non Hotchkis aftermarket front sway bar that mounts to the stock sway bar mount on the LCA. Those customers (potential customers) typically run the calipers to the rear. There are 4 combinations of that rear caliper setup:

rear pin calipers 10.75" rotor
rear pin calipers 11.75" rotor (I've tested, does not work)
rear slider caliper 10.75" rotor
rear slider caliper 11.75" rotor

I haven't tested the 3 other combinations. IMHO, it's a higher than 50/50 chance are they will not work.



I agree, it should be put in there instructions. My friend and I discussed that as he could see it wouldn't be able to work with his Demon. I believe Tomwheels has 11.75" disc brakes on his Valiant, but I don't recall if they were front or rear mount, pin or slider. He's got the full TVS.
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/24/14 06:46 AM

That is ALOT of money for arms that don't let you run calipers however you want.
Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/24/14 07:11 AM

Quote:


I agree, it should be put in there instructions. My friend and I discussed that as he could see it wouldn't be able to work with his Demon. I believe Tomwheels has 11.75" disc brakes on his Valiant, but I don't recall if they were front or rear mount, pin or slider. He's got the full TVS.



We built Tom's car with front mount calipers.
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/24/14 07:13 AM

You can run the calipers toward the front only if you swap the transfer line and bleeder valve locations.

Otherwise, the staggered piston diameters will cause the brake pads to wear at an angle.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/24/14 07:14 AM

They run the wide bend so the tube is inline with the spherical rod end. That puts the ball in the spherical inline which is best to reduce wear and loading.

Magnumforce does the same thing with one of it's upper control arms.





I've seen this setup below on other production aftermarket, circle track and other type race cars. It's just more costly to manufacturer which drives the selling price to customer up. And Hotchkis is pushing the price point already.

Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/24/14 07:15 AM

Quote:

You can run the calipers toward the front only if you swap the transfer line and bleeder valve locations.

Otherwise, the staggered piston diameters will cause the brake pads to wear at an angle.



Ok, good to know.
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/28/14 08:01 AM

Quote:


My plan is to run front air ducts with rear mount aftermarket calipers. Running air ducts to the front is much cleaner than the rear. And I don't even think there is room with the shock to get a 3" duct to the rear.

This S*CKS






Attached picture 8375958-SLRsuspension.jpg
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/28/14 08:02 AM



Attached picture 8375959-SLRbrakecooling.jpg
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/28/14 09:10 AM

Quote:

Quote:


My plan is to run front air ducts with rear mount aftermarket calipers. Running air ducts to the front is much cleaner than the rear. And I don't even think there is room with the shock to get a 3" duct to the rear.

This S*CKS









Looks like two ducts? One larger to the caliper and rotor and one to the ?front of the rotor? ?

Sure it's nice when it's all made specifically for a big dollar supercar.

This commonly and inexpensive brake duct flange can easily be modified or just wired to the existing dust shield bolts thru-holes.

I've got it mocked up here on a FMJ spindle. So disregard the FMJ steering arm on it. It will work the same on an 73-76 A-body spindle.

Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/28/14 04:52 PM

The pics were intended to spur thoughts.
The smaller duct blows on the spindle. That pushes the air from the center of the rotor outwards.
Is that something you can do with your setup?
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/28/14 10:01 PM

Quote:

The pics were intended to spur thoughts.
The smaller duct blows on the spindle. That pushes the air from the center of the rotor outwards.
Is that something you can do with your setup?



I just don't have a lot of room to snake a 3" flex duct between the frame and shock THEN make the turn to a rear duct.

AND I just like the look of a front caliper on the rear. I know that's just esthetics, but It's a lot of money for the big brakes, rims, and suspension setup. So yes, I want it to look good.

I think being compatible with aftermarket big brake kits that are front or rear mounted is reasonable. Most are intended for rear mounting. Especially when many other competing company's setups allow for this.


You go to the Hotchkis website and see this great testimonial for a "before and after" suspension build. That build-up was on the cover of Mopar Muscle magazine.

But if you have an A-body you can't build it that way...

http://www.hotchkis.net/press_release.html?ID=11

Posted By: 340duster340

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/28/14 11:16 PM

Autoxcuda, who makes that duct you pictured?
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/29/14 02:19 AM

Can you still fit a smaller duct into the center of the rotor?
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/29/14 03:44 AM

Quote:

Autoxcuda, who makes that duct you pictured?



Oval Craft 60002: http://www.ovalcraft.com/products2.htm


60001 might work as well or better.

These seem same too as 60002: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/kys-100-4786/overview/

Might look at these too:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all42116
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all42115/overview/

Duct adapted to fit particular car: http://tempusfugitgarage.com/front-suspension-progress/
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/29/14 04:05 AM

Quote:

Can you still fit a smaller duct into the center of the rotor?



In the rear or in the front with the caliper?

With the suspension in full droop getting a 2" hose between the shock, frame and UCA bumpstop is probably too tight.

I might be able to mount a duct under the caliper. It's just real low and will sit 3" to 2" below the LCA and not very protected. Like this...

Attached picture 8376784-DrDiffBigBrakeMockUp2.jpg
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/29/14 05:28 AM

RMS A-arms. I don't have any complaints other than the ball joint boots don't have a lip to snap onto, but these are not the ball joints that come in Bill's arms either.

Attached picture 8376872-004.JPG
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/29/14 07:19 AM

Quote:

RMS A-arms. I don't have any complaints other than the ball joint boots don't have a lip to snap onto, but these are not the ball joints that come in Bill's arms either.



So those are rear mount big brake and the A-arms just have a simple curve into the heims.

...geez rub it in why don't you.


Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/29/14 07:57 AM

Yeah salt to a wound, my bad, wont happen again.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/29/14 08:07 AM

Quote:

Yeah salt to a wound, my bad, wont happen again.



no, no...more info the better.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/29/14 08:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah salt to a wound, my bad, wont happen again.



no, no...more info the better.



My friend and I were also discussing this while working on my Dart. He's got the RMS UCA's, but he still didn't think they'd clear in his '71 Demon. But the bend in the RMS's arm doesn't seem nearly as drastic as the bend in the Hotchkis arm.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/29/14 08:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah salt to a wound, my bad, wont happen again.



no, no...more info the better.



My friend and I were also discussing this while working on my Dart. He's got the RMS UCA's, but he still didn't think they'd clear in his '71 Demon. But the bend in the RMS's arm doesn't seem nearly as drastic as the bend in the Hotchkis arm.



72swinger's caliper seems mounted even higher. But maybe different room in the back of it?

72swinger, what kit is that from? I thought that was a DrDiff kit also?
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/29/14 08:48 AM

It is one of the last 14" kits he made before ditching them. His new calipers are pretty close knockoffs to the Viper caliper though. I never checked how close these got to the control arm but I can go to the steering stops on my 72 lower control arms.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/29/14 08:53 AM

Quote:

It is one of the last 14" kits he made before ditching them. His new calipers are pretty close knockoffs to the Viper caliper though. I never checked how close these got to the control arm but I can go to the steering stops on my 72 lower control arms.



You may have 14" rotors, but I think my calipers are physically much larger than yours.
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/30/14 07:57 AM

The new calipers are 2" longer than the Viper version. I lowered the mount 1" so the top of the caliper will clear the UCA by the same amount.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/30/14 08:41 AM

Quote:

The new calipers are 2" longer than the Viper version. I lowered the mount 1" so the top of the caliper will clear the UCA by the same amount.



Could you lower it any further and still mount them in the rear? (steering arm)
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/30/14 02:14 PM

Unfortunately, even if the caliper hit the steering arm, I don't think it would clear the Hotchkis UCA.
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/30/14 04:49 PM

Surprised nobody wanted to know about my sweet shocks.
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/30/14 06:58 PM

Quote:

Surprised nobody wanted to know about my sweet shocks.



We've all seen Gabriel Hi-Jackers before,
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/30/14 09:47 PM

Quote:








Can you get the caliper ducting from the parts desk? How pricey is it?
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/31/14 03:40 AM

Got some work done today...

Attached picture 8378841-frontbrakewithrotors.jpg
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/31/14 03:43 AM

Quote:

I might be able to mount a duct under the caliper. It's just real low and will sit 3" to 2" below the LCA and not very protected. Like this...



Let me know where you want me to take pictures. I doubt this is a shot you want but this is a view from the front of the car. Caliper hangs pretty low. Sorry for crappy cell phone picture.

Attached picture 8378848-forautoxcuda.jpg
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/31/14 04:41 AM

Quote:



Can you get the caliper ducting from the parts desk? How pricey is it?



Yes you can.
Keep in mind this is a Mercedes SLR. The calipers say AMG. Add More Green.
Last time I priced them they were around $300 without the hose.
Posted By: dangina

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/31/14 05:11 AM

does anyone make the caliper ducting for the 2nd gen viper caliper bigbrake upgrade?
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/31/14 06:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Can you get the caliper ducting from the parts desk? How pricey is it?



Yes you can.
Keep in mind this is a Mercedes SLR. The calipers say AMG. Add More Green.
Last time I priced them they were around $300 without the hose.



Thanks. I'll stick to center register / hub ducts. That's where my heat issue is anyway.
Posted By: Consulier

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/31/14 05:06 PM

Quote:

does anyone make the caliper ducting for the 2nd gen viper caliper bigbrake upgrade?



Mancini has some 1st Gen caliper stuff on closeout...

Viper Kit
Posted By: BergmanAutoCraft

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/31/14 06:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



Can you get the caliper ducting from the parts desk? How pricey is it?



Yes you can.
Keep in mind this is a Mercedes SLR. The calipers say AMG. Add More Green.
Last time I priced them they were around $300 without the hose.



Thanks. I'll stick to center register / hub ducts. That's where my heat issue is anyway.



I agree, the knuckle mount air ducts are cheap and easier to adapt.

I'll be adding stuff like this to my site soon.
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/31/14 07:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

does anyone make the caliper ducting for the 2nd gen viper caliper bigbrake upgrade?



Mancini has some 1st Gen caliper stuff on closeout...

Viper Kit

wow that is a nice setup, that box is huge.
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 12/31/14 10:48 PM

Quote:

Regular Price: $1,991.00
Sale Price: $350.00




yeah, as if a price drop like that makes the current sale price sooo much more justified... lol
Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 01/01/15 04:21 AM

Quote:

Let me know where you want me to take pictures. I doubt this is a shot you want but this is a view from the front of the car. Caliper hangs pretty low. Sorry for crappy cell phone picture.





Samy, that socket and ratchet better be back in that case! Don't make me come take inventory.



























Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 01/01/15 04:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Let me know where you want me to take pictures. I doubt this is a shot you want but this is a view from the front of the car. Caliper hangs pretty low. Sorry for crappy cell phone picture.



Samy, that socket and ratchet better be back in that case! Don't make me come take inventory.







I actually cleaned the garage up last night after I finished working on the car. It was a pain walking over boxes and finding other tools. That tool set still has all of its original tools and more.

Btw... That was my friends ratchet.
Posted By: moparx

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 01/01/15 01:38 PM

cleaning the garage of boxes and junk, plus picking up your tools is called "garage aerobics "........ it's the only way i get my exercise.

Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 01/01/15 05:04 PM

Quote:

cleaning the garage of boxes and junk, plus picking up your tools is called "garage aerobics "........ it's the only way i get my exercise.





I give him flak about the tools because when I sent them to him I included a note about keeping them all in the case so he could take a quick immediate inventory and know if something was missing.

He also gets a bit for being the "kid" around here.


Samy, clean up your room!
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/01/15 04:43 AM

So today I decided to stop thinking about the things that are stressing me out more in life and focus on a different, but arguably, less burdensome task.

I finished putting together the entire front suspension and brake setup. I toqued everything but I haven't fiddled with my camber bolts because I'm not sure how to set those properly. I also installed my Hotchkis, Fox Adjustable shocks and right now I set them to the softest setting. I just hope when I start driving this thing it will be painless and I won't find things I overlooked or forgot.

Right now, what I need to do is remake a couple of the front brakelines to make up for the front mounted calipers, swap out my rear shocks, install subframe connectors and sway bars, send it to an alignment shop, and some fluid based maintenance (oil change, add trans fluid, flush radiator, etc.)

Attached picture 8414648-SuspensionCompleted2.jpg
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/01/15 04:45 AM

O yeah... Test fit of new wheels to see how they'd look. Torsion bars and shocks were already installed so I couldn't get it any lower.

Attached picture 8414651-WheelTestFit.jpg
Posted By: 4speeds4me

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/01/15 05:35 AM

I'm not a big fan of big wheels on older musclecars, but that's looking pretty sharp!
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/01/15 05:49 AM

Quote:

I'm not a big fan of big wheels on older musclecars, but that's looking pretty sharp!



Thanks, this was the 4th wheel I ordered before something actually got to my doorstep. I did a lot of research and eventually this is what I came up with. I'm quite happy with it. I also chose to go with a taller tire. They're 255/40/18's which are about 26" tall. My mock up wheel and tire, a Mustang Bullet wheel with a 17x8" wheel and 275/40/17 tire, was practically the exact same size and only hit the frame rail at full droop and full lock. So, I got a very small spacer to make up for it. The back is really tight between the leafs and the fender lips. We'll see if there's any rub. Or should I say how much rub? Lol.

Attached picture 8414729-WheelTestFitRear.jpg
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/01/15 05:52 AM

How the wheel looks when not washed out by the camera.

Attached picture 8414735-sc_5.jpg
Posted By: Tomswheels

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/01/15 06:02 AM

Looks great Samy!
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/01/15 06:13 AM

Quote:

Looks great Samy!



Thanks Tom... Hopefully the car will be running again in a month or two. Although this quarter has been extremely harsh as it's my last quarter and I'm overdosed on classes, overworked at my internship, and am doing research for my senior project. I'll graduate in March so I'll have free time then.
Posted By: Brian

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/01/15 06:15 AM

Very nice, what width, backspace and offset on the wheels?
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/01/15 06:22 AM

Quote:

Very nice, what width, backspace and offset on the wheels?



Sorry, I forgot to mention that. The whole suspension is a Hotchkis TVS. The rear is a stock A-body width 8 3/4 with bbp axles, and Dr Diff's 11.7" disc brake kit. All wheels are running an 18x9" with a 255/40/18 tire (it's pretty damn tight). The fronts are +32mm offset and the rears are +22mm offset, but I'll be running a 5mm spacer on all 4 corners (+27mm and +17mm offset respectively). The wheels were designed for Mustangs so it's got that smaller centerbore if you're using the Mopar hub.

I'm running a spacer up front because when I test fitted my mock up wheel (a 17x8" wheel with +30mm offset and 275/40/17 tires) it barely rubbed the frame at full lock and full droop. The wide tire on the short wheel made this setup practically the same size as my setup.
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/01/15 03:21 PM

Very nice!
Posted By: Mopar Mitch

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/02/15 07:10 PM

Sammy -- Nice progress!
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/03/15 12:47 AM

Quote:

Sammy -- Nice progress!



Thank you everyone! Although there isn't much to do. I still think it's going to take me some time before it's on the ground and running again.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/15/15 06:42 AM

I know it's towards the end, but I'm throwing in the towel. I've got the wheels on the car and put the car on the ground. Definitely an awesome moment and all I could think was how bad @$$ it was. Well, next weekend, I'm going to be sending the car over to my mechanics. I'm going to have them redo a couple brake lines, do some regular maintenance, set its alignment, and weld in the sway bars and subframe connectors.

Hopefully it will be done sometime before April and I'll be able to take it to the Hotchkis Autocross and/or Spring Fling.

One thing I was upset about was that one side sits higher than the other. Whenever I fiddled with the passenger side adjuster the ride height changed. No matter how much I tightened or loosened the driver side torsion bar adjuster the ride height stayed the same so now my car has a little gangster lean to it. The whole driver side is taller than the passenger side. Overall, I like the ride height of the passenger side.

Also, it looks like there may be some interference with the top passenger quarter panel brace. I don't have that problem with the driver's side because the brace tore off sometime in its lifetime... No, seriously, the mounting points are gone, sheared.

Due to the wheels, the GT trim is starting to grow on me. I really don't know why, but not too long ago I wanted to throw it all out. Now I wish I kind of had the driver's door trim and all the trim was in better condition.

So here are some pictures... I edited on my phone, increasing the brightness and adding a filter to see more of the details. That's why there's an interesting hue to it.

Driver's side:

Attached picture 8429567-Car1.jpg
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/15/15 06:43 AM

Passenger side:

Attached picture 8429569-Car2.jpg
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/15/15 06:43 AM

Driver's Front:

Attached picture 8429570-Car3.jpg
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/15/15 06:44 AM

Driver's Rear:

Attached picture 8429571-Car5.jpg
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/15/15 06:44 AM

Passenger Front:

Attached picture 8429572-Car6.jpg
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/15/15 06:45 AM

Passenger Rear:

Attached picture 8429575-Car4.jpg
Posted By: 4speeds4me

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/15/15 07:44 AM

Quote:

One thing I was upset about was that one side sits higher than the other. Whenever I fiddled with the passenger side adjuster the ride height changed. No matter how much I tightened or loosened the driver side torsion bar adjuster the ride height stayed the same so now my car has a little gangster lean to it. The whole driver side is taller than the passenger side. Overall, I like the ride height of the passenger side.



That would bug me too. The passenger front picture looks nice!
Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/15/15 08:35 AM

Quote:

The whole driver side is taller than the passenger side. Overall, I like the ride height of the passenger side.


I think that is kind of a good thing. When I set the ride height on my car I had the driver side just a tiny bit higher than my passenger side because when you sit in the driver seat, the driver side has your body weight to support and it balances everything out. When I sit in my car it is even left to right. I also sat in the driver seat when I got an alignment.
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/15/15 10:55 AM

Don't sweat the ride height until you bounce the front end a few times and roll the car back and forth as well as steer the tires a couple times. It takes a few cycles to take a set.
Posted By: Uhcoog1

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/15/15 03:05 PM

Looks good man

One turn of the torsion bar adjusters should equal about a 1/4" ride height adjustment.

Is there tension on the drivers side bolt? Can you confirm the lever arm is actually on the bolt head as it should be?
Posted By: goldduster318

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/15/15 04:55 PM

I like it. I was going to say keep/replace the trim as well.

You will want to check to see if the ball end of the adjuster bolt is actually in the cup on the adjuster.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/15/15 06:48 PM

Quote:

Looks good man

One turn of the torsion bar adjusters should equal about a 1/4" ride height adjustment.

Is there tension on the drivers side bolt? Can you confirm the lever arm is actually on the bolt head as it should be?



Yeah, that was me being stupid. Last night I was focusing more on tensioning it (thinking I was loosening it). I backed it off quite a bit and now ride height is about where I want it to be.
Posted By: moparpollack

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 02/15/15 06:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Looks good man

One turn of the torsion bar adjusters should equal about a 1/4" ride height adjustment.

Is there tension on the drivers side bolt? Can you confirm the lever arm is actually on the bolt head as it should be?



Yeah, that was me being stupid. Last night I was focusing more on tensioning it (thinking I was loosening it). I backed it off quite a bit and now ride height is about where I want it to be.



Must of had puppies on the brain! Take it one day at a time finish up school first.
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 03/13/15 06:33 AM

So, I've been extremely busy lately due to school, work, and my senior project so I've had no time to even look at the Dart; however, I'll be done with my last final of my undergraduate career (hopefully) the morning of Fri March 20th (7 days from now). After that, I'm still negotiating with work with regards to time off between the time I graduate and me being hired full-time, and if I'm still working 20 hour weeks (or on "vacation"), I may be able to get the Dart "done" in time for some events if I work hard and fast enough. I don't really want to take it to my body shop because they're going to be really slow since they can't make much money off of this car (most parts are already bought and normal fender benders make the money, not old cars).

So, the events I'm trying to make it to are the NMCA Hotchkis Autocross (3/28 and/or 3/29, 8 days from 3/20) and Spring Fling (5/9 to 5/13, 19+ days from 3/20). I'm not sure if I'll be able to make it to the track event on Thursday or if my car will be "safe" enough to run.

So here are the things left on my list of things that need to get done:

-Replace one rear shock (mine came installed with a shim in the bushing and I haven't had time to press it out at school).
-Grease all ball joints and u-joints on driveshaft (I've never done before)
-Redo the front brake lines from the distribution block to the caliper (due to front mounting calipers).
-Wire in the line lock (or remove it and make another brake line to take its place for now).
-Oil change, add ATF, add PS fluid, and radiator flush. (most of which I've never done, personally, before).
-Bleed brake system.
-Front End Alignment needs to be done (I'm probably going to need a shop to do it).

So, here are my safety concerns:
1) Currently, the brake lines going from the distribution block to the rear of the car are dangling unsupported in the car as my friend wanted to tie them to the subframe connectors that were eventually going to get welded in. I'm assuming it wouldn't be a good idea to run those without being supported by something.
2) Subframe connectors and sway bars probably won't be welded in (not that big of a deal but it will help balance the car).
3) I need to install a speedometer cable (unfortunately, with 26" tall tires and 3.55 gears, it won't be very accurate). I bought one years ago, but it had the wrong input to the transmission.
4) I am having what I believe a grounding issue for my temp and fuel level gauge as they come in and out whenever they choose. (I've been ok without them so far, but if I'm going to be racing the car, I want to know if I'm running at a safe temperature).
5) I still have low compression in one cylinder from 1.5 years ago (average was about 120-150 psi while cylinder 2, I believe, was running around 60 psi).

So, would it be even safe to say that I could get some of the issues sorted out to get this car on the road, running, and possibly competing/attending at some of these events?

I know I'm new to doing a lot of things. I really don't know how to grease all of the ball joints. I tried using my Autozone grease gun (which leaks from every crack), placed it on the little valve-thingy, and tried to pump grease into it, but I don't think it worked as the grease was just oozing out. Also, I've never done an oil change myself, but I assume it's as easy as removing the oil filter, dumping the oil, installing a new filter, dropping in new oil. Then there's the fact that I've never bent my own brake lines. I know I'm going to need a Dremel and a tubing bender tool.

I know this is a long shot, but is there anyone close-by that could possibly lend me a hand during the week of the 23rd? I know OzHemi is busy loading containers and Tomwheels may also be busy (and quite further down south). Should I just call Hotchkis in Santa Fe Springs and see what they can do? To be honest, I'm tired of seeing my Dart just sitting in my garage not doing anything but collecting dust.
Posted By: 4speeds4me

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 03/13/15 07:59 AM

You need a 36-tooth speedometer pinion for those tires with those gears...
Posted By: MuuMuu101

Re: Hotchkis TVS, Brakes, and Rear End Install - 03/14/15 04:39 AM

Quote:

You need a 36-tooth speedometer pinion for those tires with those gears...



That's good to know.

It seems like after finals are done, I'll be working 20 hours a week till we get my full-time employment figured out.