Moparts

Power Steering Pump help needed!

Posted By: JSR1485

Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/13/13 03:03 PM

I have a Stage 3 Firm Feel box in my Duster and I am using a Saginaw pump, I am on my third pump! They are all bleed correctly , I get no noise or steering problems like binding at all. All the pumps start to leak after use. When I take them apart the seals are all torn?
Any idea? Too much internal pump pressure? getting to hot? I am about at a loss at this point.

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Posted By: Mopar Mitch

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/13/13 03:27 PM

JS -- nice ride! Consider changing ps pump brand suppliers?... different store??
Posted By: JSR1485

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/13/13 03:43 PM

I just got another one , I am going try one from Rock Auto.
If this one fails , I guess I have no choice but to buy a KRC set up
http://www.krcpower.com/ecommerce/comple...tor-bracket.asp
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/13/13 04:33 PM

You don't have to go full on KRC, I'm using a circle track pump with a mounted reservoir,CV?, $200 shipped off eBay with a sh chev head mount and a couple homemade brackets.
Posted By: JSR1485

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/13/13 05:12 PM

72swinger I would like to see pictures of that
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/13/13 05:59 PM

Here it is on my BB.

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Posted By: JSR1485

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/13/13 06:31 PM

Thanks that is very cool setup!
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/13/13 09:47 PM

Reseal the pump yourself. The kit is like $15-20. The rebuild kit just come with a replacement bronze plain bushing/bearing that presses in. Then you can inspect the vanes and guts. Vanes don't really go bad unless you completely blow it and parts scatter all over the inside.

Inspect the surface on the can were it seals to the large O-ring. Rust or dents can cause leakage.
Posted By: ahy

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/13/13 11:59 PM

FF rebuilt my Saginaw pump. It was a premium over a parts store but has been trouble free. That said, I haven't heard of widespread problems with parts store pumps. I've used them without problem on other projects.

I wonder if there are any other problems? Signs of debris, kink in the return line, heating/foaming ect?
Posted By: JSR1485

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/14/13 02:03 AM

There has been no other problems-no foaming , no kink in any lines.
The first pump I did my self and it was fine for a very short problem, then the front O-ring blew out and I found the can was out of round, next I picked up a Mopar NOS pump and can and that blew out the rear O rings that seal it to the can and now I picked up a complete pump from Rock Auto.
The only thing I can up with is either the fluid eating the O-rings
I have too much internal pump pressure or it is getting hot and boiling the fluid.
It is more than a drip, when I come back from driving it the K-Frame is dripping with oil
Posted By: Sinitro

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/14/13 03:10 AM

Before installing a new pump..
Be sure to purge the lines to get all the scraps out..

Just my $0.02...
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/14/13 04:05 AM

Are these all with a new pressure relief valve as well?
Posted By: JSR1485

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/14/13 02:42 PM

Yes all new valves , new lines and the box is brand new.
I have being some research and the fluid I was using was what they call TOP OFF fluid and has stop leak in it and I think it might have been making the seals & o rings soft. So this time I am using regular factory power steering fluid.
Posted By: ahy

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/15/13 12:48 AM

Quote:

Yes all new valves , new lines and the box is brand new.
I have being some research and the fluid I was using was what they call TOP OFF fluid and has stop leak in it and I think it might have been making the seals & o rings soft. So this time I am using regular factory power steering fluid.




Good idea. The older grates of ATF (Dexron, type F) work fine in the PS pump also. On the debris, NAPA and probably others have an in line filter for the return line. It may be worth running one for a while until you are sure any bits of seal have been captured.
Posted By: JSR1485

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/17/13 11:14 PM

This pump has no leaks I put Lucas power steering fluid in and got a new cap also seems to be 100%
Posted By: BradD

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/23/13 02:07 AM

I put the driveline in a friend/customers 66 Charger. 383/edelbrock EFI/833 4SPD./Paxton Novi 1500/Doug's Headers/TTI Exh./Chrome Saginaw pump. I burnt up 2 pumps before I remembered the Saginaw has to have the larger fitting into the steering gearbox. And you have to use the proper size pressure hose to the box. The car originally had a Mopar/TRW pump which uses the 3/16" hose and fitting whereas the saginaw uses 1/4". The smaller hose and fitting used with the saginaw pump creates higher pressure and heat which burns the pump. I put the correct parts on and all is fine.
Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/23/13 03:55 AM

I used a slightly different oval track set up, I think mine is a Sweet Mfg pump (exact company slips my mind right now) with divorced tank. I may add a cooler in the near future.

Old pick from my '67 after we pulled the engine.

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/23/13 02:13 PM

Quote:

I put the driveline in a friend/customers 66 Charger. 383/edelbrock EFI/833 4SPD./Paxton Novi 1500/Doug's Headers/TTI Exh./Chrome Saginaw pump. I burnt up 2 pumps before I remembered the Saginaw has to have the larger fitting into the steering gearbox. And you have to use the proper size pressure hose to the box. The car originally had a Mopar/TRW pump which uses the 3/16" hose and fitting whereas the saginaw uses 1/4". The smaller hose and fitting used with the saginaw pump creates higher pressure and heat which burns the pump. I put the correct parts on and all is fine.




Interesting, I swapped Saginaw pumps into both my 64 300 and my 72 Swinger, reused the existing hoses. Never burned anything up.
Posted By: dezduster

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/23/13 04:25 PM

I hope you are not using Lucas stop leak in your pump, as this will foam up badly causing possible problems you are experiencing.
Does the firm feel box use smaller piston or reduce pressure? If it's reduction in psi, at higher rpms you could be bypassing in the pump always heating the fluid badly and creating high internal pressures.
Possible solutions would be larger pump pulley our smaller crank pulley. If your new pump starts to have issues that is.
Posted By: 74_360_Cuda

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/30/13 03:25 AM

I have the same problem, brand new chrome pump from Tuff Stuff, brand new steering box from Borgeson, New Hoses with proper diameter, Pump is leaking but not from the hoses, suspect overheating although I have the March pulley kit that I think is under drive (1.2 ratio).

I have done some research and I am suspecting my new pump with key way pulley shaft has more flow and generate too much heat but I don't have proof since nobody publish the flow of their pumps. The can/reservoir is also probably too small. I might consider a remote reservoir & a cooler but If I could just find a pump with a key way pulley shaft but with less flow I would be very happy.

I have also noticed that the OEM hoses had a weird loop in metal tubing going up and down right after the pump and I am now wondering if this was not some kind of OEM cooler... My custom hoses don't have that metal loop.
Posted By: ahy

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/30/13 03:37 PM

I always thought that loop was some sort of anti drain back. I guess it would cool also.

Just for reference, the original rebuilt pump from my core engine ('78 Cordoba 400) with stock repop hoses (NAPA) has been leak and problem free. I turn it with a smaller than stock crank pulley from March to keep speed reasonable with my hotter engine (6 1/4" vs 7 1/4"). I may add a PS cooler but it has been completely happy so far running Dexron ATF fluid so no rush.
Posted By: 74_360_Cuda

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 08/31/13 07:23 PM

I assume your pump is press on pulley shaft?

I have the March Pulley kit with Key way and I think all key way shaft might be higher flow than my stock pump...

Found this very interesting discussion stating that most (if not all) after market pumps have the thicker Cam/Vane pack with 30% increased flow...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/973826-what-s-going-inside-ps-pump.html
Posted By: ahy

Re: Power Steering Pump help needed! - 09/01/13 12:39 AM

Yes, the one I run is the later OE style press on Saginaw.

The original pump on the car ('70 318) is the keyed shaft Saginaw with big nut. I've got that one stashed away. It can be used on a BB with a conversion spacer from Bouchillon.
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