schwartz performance What do you think?

Posted By: hulmule

schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/07/12 02:26 AM

Looking to build a car or do i buy a used SRT8 Challenger.I love 70 Road Runners. So can i build one to handle like a new car? My brother told me about this schwartz performance.Do you go down that road or can you piece together a car with parts. Sent them a email and they have E and B boddy frames. Told me $2-4k to put a full frame under the car with suspension.lets here the pros and cons. thanks

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/07/12 02:51 AM

Quote:

Looking to build a car or do i buy a used SRT8 Challenger.I love 70 Road Runners. So can i build one to handle like a new car? My brother told me about this schwartz performance.Do you go down that road or can you piece together a car with parts. Sent them a email and they have E and B boddy frames. Told me $2-4k to put a full frame under the car with suspension.lets here the pros and cons. thanks

I see $9,199 as a base price. And you still have to have fixture and mount your rear end. Still have to make a steering column and other "stuff" from what I can see at just a glance.

Posted By: PHJ426

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/07/12 03:03 AM

http://schwartzperformance.com/mopar-b-body/

Pricing:

Base Price: $ 9,199.00
Disc Brake Kit:
13″ Plain rotor, 6 piston front, 4 piston rear Wilwood (+$2,669)
13″ cross-drilled OR slotted, 6 piston front, 4 piston rear Wilwood (+$2,969)
14″ cross-drilled, Baer 6P Calipers (+$4,500)
14″ cross-drilled, Baer 6S Calipers (+$7,995)
Coilover Shocks/ Springs:
None ($0)
RideTech Single-Adjustable (+$1,300)
RideTech Triple-Adjustable (+$2,600)
Rear End Housing & Axles:
None; weld your brackets to my housing (+$189)
Moser full-floating 9″, 31 spline axles (+1,814)
Moser M9 full-floating 9″, 31 spline axles (+2,304)
Heidts IRS, Installed (+$8,495)
Third Member/Differential:
None
Trac Lock posi, cast iron case +($995.00)
Detroit TrueTrac, cast iron case +($1295.00)
Detroit TrueTrac, Moser spec w/ nodular case +($1495.00)
Detroit TrueTrac, Moser spec w/ aluminum case +($1695.00)
Rear End Ratio:
None
3.25:1
3.50:1
3.70:1
3.89:1
4.10:1
4.56:1
Motor Mounts:
New Hemi 5.7/6.1 +($145.00)
Old-school Hemi +($145.00)
Other
Powdercoat:
No powdercoat, bare steel
Your choice of colors +($1,600)
Assembly:
I�ll assemble myself
Please assemble my chassis +($595.00)

Payment terms: 75% down at time of order, remaining 25% due before shipment.

Posted By: moparpollack

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/07/12 03:03 AM

Link?

Posted By: PHJ426

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/07/12 03:15 AM

If you are into spending cubic dollars as a basis for improving your car this (Schwarts Performance $$$$) is definitely the way to go.

There are also these alternatives if your into the package deal systems:
http://www.hotchkis.net/search.html?Make=49&Model=1338&SubmitForm=Search

http://www.xvmotorsports.com/products/index.cfm

http://firmfeel.com/b.htm

Get AndyF's book on the B body handling and read all you can on this forum on Moparts and other locations on Mopars that handle. You dont need to put a full frame under your car........if that is what you want to do well then go ahead and do it but its not required just because Schwartz says sooooooooo

Posted By: hulmule

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/07/12 03:20 AM

wow, got to go and look at that. his email didnt sound like that.That being said , i guess need to look else where. That SRT8 is looking better, with the big brakes, etc jump in and drive.

Posted By: ahy

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/07/12 03:44 AM

$2-4k will get you a really good T-bar/spring/steering setup that can handle with current cars. No additional parts/frames ect. needed. Add wheels, tires and powertrain...

Total cost is likley to be higher to restore and upgrade the older car vs a used newer car. It comes down to what you want... an older car that handles and stops really well or a newer car?

Posted By: PHJ426

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/07/12 04:06 AM

Like ahy said you dont need that much to get the suspension and steering up to snuff. This all depends on the car you are starting with.

You might just find a great deal on the board. Do you already have the 70 Road Runner of no? So all this $$$$ depends on how nice of a car you start with mechanically speaking....

Posted By: 67autocross

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/07/12 04:34 AM

I think the 2-4 grand is for the labour to install the parts on your car, not purchase them.

Get the SRT8 and enjoy, you'll end up with as much money into the old car and it won't likely outperform the new one, Plus you can start driving it the day you buy it.

Posted By: 340duster340

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/07/12 06:19 PM

Quote:

I think the 2-4 grand is for the labour to install the parts on your car, not purchase them.

Get the SRT8 and enjoy, you'll end up with as much money into the old car and it won't likely outperform the new one, Plus you can start driving it the day you buy it.

my dad has the srt8 challenger, its a blast to drive. 6 speed, etc.

you couldn't resto-mod an old car and upgrade to the same performance and reliability for what he paid for his. plus factory warrantee if your buying new or CPO.

Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/07/12 08:57 PM

Quote:

Base Price: $ 9,199.00
Disc Brake Kit:
13″ Plain rotor, 6 piston front, 4 piston rear Wilwood (+$2,669)
Coilover Shocks/ Springs:
RideTech Single-Adjustable (+$1,300)
Rear End Housing & Axles:
Moser full-floating 9″, 31 spline axles (+1,814)
Third Member/Differential:
None
Trac Lock posi, cast iron case +($995.00)
Rear End Ratio:
3.70:1
Motor Mounts:
Old-school Hemi +($145.00)
Powdercoat:
Your choice of colors +($1,600)
Assembly:
I�ll assemble myself

Looks like the cheap options and putting it all together yourself costs you $17,722.00. I'd call that almost half way to a used R/T Challenger.

Quote:

Base Price: $ 9,199.00
Disc Brake Kit:
14″ cross-drilled, Baer 6S Calipers (+$7,995)
Coilover Shocks/ Springs:
RideTech Triple-Adjustable (+$2,600)
Rear End Housing & Axles:
Heidts IRS, Installed (+$8,495)
Third Member/Differential:
Detroit TrueTrac, Moser spec w/ aluminum case +($1695.00)
Rear End Ratio:
3.70:1
Motor Mounts:
New Hemi 5.7/6.1 +($145.00)
Powdercoat:
Your choice of colors +($1,600)
Assembly:
Please assemble my chassis +($595.00)

If you go the fully optioned route, it adds up to $32,324.00. Thats a lot of coin for only marginal performance gain over what you can do to the stock system for $4000. Of course the Schwartz guys will spout off about their adjustablity and geometry changes and how that all is head and shoulders above stock stuff.

For your 70 Roadrunner, including vehicle purchase, restoration, and rebuild costs, and your classic could easily top $100k using the figures above.

Posted By: PHJ426

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/08/12 12:18 AM

Actually you can buy a resto modded Mopar for about the same cash you would spend with this frame company. Here on Moparts in the 71 and up B body this car is available not mine and I dont know the guy that built it but here you go:

71 roadrunner srt 6.1 hemi conversion
all of the goodies:
alterkation
TTI
wilwood - all 4 corners
Challenger SRT interior
AC. Power windows
518 O.D.
Build up is posted in member projects section of this board.
Was featured in Jan 2012 Chrysler power magazine.
ASKING $36k (you may be surprised what I may sell this car for....to the right person!)
PM here or call 813 434 6668
thanks
Dave

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/08/12 02:33 AM

Art Morrison has kits for Mopars too.

Posted By: dangina

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/08/12 10:42 AM

Quote:

Actually you can buy a resto modded Mopar for about the same cash you would spend with this frame company. Here on Moparts in the 71 and up B body this car is available not mine and I dont know the guy that built it but here you go:

71 roadrunner srt 6.1 hemi conversion
all of the goodies:
alterkation
TTI
wilwood - all 4 corners
Challenger SRT interior
AC. Power windows
518 O.D.
Build up is posted in member projects section of this board.
Was featured in Jan 2012 Chrysler power magazine.
ASKING $36k (you may be surprised what I may sell this car for....to the right person!)
PM here or call 813 434 6668
thanks
Dave

this car is sick - I would buy it!

Posted By: PHJ426

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/08/12 09:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Actually you can buy a resto modded Mopar for about the same cash you would spend with this frame company. Here on Moparts in the 71 and up B body this car is available not mine and I dont know the guy that built it but here you go:

71 roadrunner srt 6.1 hemi conversion
all of the goodies:
alterkation
TTI
wilwood - all 4 corners
Challenger SRT interior
AC. Power windows
518 O.D.
Build up is posted in member projects section of this board.
Was featured in Jan 2012 Chrysler power magazine.
ASKING $36k (you may be surprised what I may sell this car for....to the right person!)
PM here or call 813 434 6668
thanks
Dave

this car is sick - I would buy it!

No doubt, anyone can have a new Challenger just sign here.............

That 71 Road Runner is a good looking ride!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/08/12 11:48 PM

"Your Mopar�s uni-body construction is inherently weak. Our G-Machine Chassis isn�t."

Wow, really!?

While in stock form it leaves a lot to be desired, I think I could spend $9k+ and have a uni-body that is more than up to the task!

Posted By: Supercuda

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/09/12 02:19 AM

Quote:

"Your Mopar�s uni-body construction is inherently weak. Our G-Machine Chassis isn�t."

A ladder frame is strong?

LOf'iingL

Looks like a great way to p!ss away lots of money.

Cracker Jack U strikes again.

Posted By: PHJ426

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/09/12 02:35 AM

This Schwartz guy must be a great snake oil salesman.

With these kind of engineering skills he possesses I wonder what he would tell Boeing about designing aircraft frames.......

Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/09/12 05:26 AM

Posted By: topside

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/09/12 09:01 PM

Like most all build vs. buy questions, the answer depends on these things:
1. Do you enjoy building cars?
2. Is the concept more important to you than the money?
3. Do you want to enjoy the end product now, or is the journey to get there part of your enjoyment?
4. Will you actually explore the limits 100% at the track, or is it a street car?

It's almost always less expensive to buy a finished project, like the '71 B mentioned, IF it's done right and it's to your taste. You need to set the goals & budget. I can appreciate the new stuff, but to me old cars are WAY cooler and usually a better investment. I've built enough cars to feel confident that I can do an early Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, etc that would equal the new models' performance for about the same money.

Posted By: Dale@Schwartz

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/23/12 07:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

"Your Mopar�s uni-body construction is inherently weak. Our G-Machine Chassis isn�t."

A ladder frame is strong?

LOf'iingL

Looks like a great way to p!ss away lots of money.

Cracker Jack U strikes again.

Hello all,

it seems there is some confusion on our chassis system. We convert them to a full frame instead of using subframe connectors, because it's stronger. Keep in mind that our chassis works TOGETHER with the unibody construction, it doesn't replace it. The suspension, engine, and drivetrain will now bolt to a frame instead of spot-welded pieces of sheet metal.
The welded frame itself is under $5k. We use mandrel-bent frame rails.

If you look at the parts that are included, you'll see that our standard brake kit is 13", you get a power rack, single-adjustable coilovers, a truetrac diff / 31 spline axles, and a full-floating Moser 9" housing.

Yes, its much cheaper for you to get small 11" brakes and non-adjustable coilovers, and to keep your stock rear end.

We've won or placed well against our competitors with our chassis systems. Just this weekend our customer's 1984 Monte Carlo placed 3rd in the Car Craft Magazine Real Street Eliminator autocross competition, yes... even against new SRT8 Challengers! Driving skill? It was our customer's 2nd autocross event ever.

Anywho, if you have any other questions please feel free to email us, or call at (815) 206 2230.

Have a nice week!

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 07/23/12 08:23 PM

If I ever get an E body or 68 Charger I will do it up with the works like one of your setups. It is something that needs done from the get go IMO. Even if you offered an A body model I wouldnt convert my current car because its just more than I want to do on a car that is already cosmetically done.

Posted By: Rick_Ehrenberg

Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 08/17/12 03:34 PM

A little re-hash...

From their site: "Your Mopar�s uni-body construction is inherently weak. Our G-Machine Chassis isn�t.

The sheet-metal that your suspension components and engine are mounted to begins to flex dramatically once you add more horsepower, higher spring-rates and better brakes."

What a crock.

Compare any perimeter-frame car of the '60s to any Mopar of the same era. Drive a corner of that GTO up on a curb...you can't even open the door! And the Mopar was lighter, etc. The only downside: Noisier and a bit more ride harshness.

Look at all the modern stiff / handling cars: ALL are unibody with rail-thru construction (BMW - Mercedes, etc.) all pirated from B-vans and Jeep Cherokee designs!

I have no doubt that adding a perimeter frame to the unibody will create a very stiff platform -- the factory has done that (Imperial). But, what's the weight penalty? You can get the same effect with frame connex, torque boxes, and the XV braces, which, in total, add maybe 30-35 lbs.

Rick

Posted By: Supercuda
Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 08/17/12 04:29 PM

Not to mention thousands of dollars less, even if you farm the work out.

Posted By: PHJ426
Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 08/18/12 09:28 PM

Any reply from Mr Schwartz himself?

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 08/18/12 11:10 PM

I just had to...

Posted By: PHJ426
Re: schwartz performance What do you think? - 08/18/12 11:44 PM