Analyze my (truck) alignment?

Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 01/22/12 11:10 PM

Attached is the print out from the alignment place for my '72 W200 with 32s. I had it checked after I made a new tie rod, so that was the main thing that was being corrected.

My main complaint is a little wandering and loose steering at highway speeds.

Since it's a solid front axle, is it as simple as adding a ~2* shim to each side to get the caster back into spec? I know it will change the pinion angle, but I'm willing to have a little vibration if it steers better the rest of the time.

I've also read that going to ~+4-5* caster with big tires can help a lot as well.

Thanks for any thoughts

Attached picture 7031901-truckalignment.jpg

Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 01/23/12 12:14 AM

Does it have a steering stabilizer?

How tight is the steering coupler?

How wide are these 32's?

I had 31 x 10.50's on an '86 W150 and it followed the road like you are describing. The next set of tires were narrower (265 75 15's) and the truck drove way better. Must have put 3 steering couplers in that thing.......

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 01/23/12 12:20 AM

I want to say the tires are 265/80r16s. Would have to go outside to double check that.

I've added a steering stabilizer.

Intermediate steering shaft is a newer Borgeson unit. No play between it and the steering shaft.

Newer ball joints. New tie rod + tie rod ends. Reduced pressure from the power steering pump.

Believe me, I've done about all I can on the steering side.

Other than going to a tighter ratio chivy box (which I may still do at some point).

But if I can put some shims in and get the caster and steering better...

Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 01/24/12 02:31 AM

Yep, you nailed all the weak spots.

A straight axle 2Gen Ram holds the road pretty well, would you be able to dig up the alignment specs on one of them? If they are running more caster than the old girls, then you are on the right path. If possible, maybe duplicate those numbers to your truck?

If you do rotate that axle and it vibrates you can always get a CV joint made up. Guys running big lift kits sometimes have to go that route to solve the sharp angle problem.

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 01/24/12 04:09 AM

Looks like the 2Gen rams were spec'd at 2.5 to 3.5, with 3 being the sweet spot.

I also saw somewhere else they recommended 5* for D44s.

And finally, I found some guys on ebay who sell 2* or 4* shims that should fit. Decisions, decisions

Posted By: ahy

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 01/24/12 04:25 AM

The caster is low for some reason... springs settled a bit? The pinion angle may be off as well and the shims may even help.

If the springs are reasonable, I'd go ahead and shim it to specs. It will take a fair amount of shim but I'd go ahead and do it. If you do have vibration you can always back off on the shims... but I'd be surprised if you do. For the shims, aluminum is frequently used... but not recommended as it can break down with the high loading it gets. Steel is better.

Also, for stability, you might ask that toe be set with more toe in... within specs but more than what you have. Toe in compensates for the drag of the tires stretching the tie rods and other stuff... with bigger tires, more drag so more toe in. More toe in usually increases stability.

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 01/24/12 04:50 AM

Quote:

The caster is low for some reason... springs settled a bit? The pinion angle may be off as well and the shims may even help.

If the springs are reasonable, I'd go ahead and shim it to specs. It will take a fair amount of shim but I'd go ahead and do it. If you do have vibration you can always back off on the shims... but I'd be surprised if you do. For the shims, aluminum is frequently used... but not recommended as it can break down with the high loading it gets. Steel is better.

Also, for stability, you might ask that toe be set with more toe in... within specs but more than what you have. Toe in compensates for the drag of the tires stretching the tie rods and other stuff... with bigger tires, more drag so more toe in. More toe in usually increases stability.

The springs do ride pretty much flat, but I'm not sure how they're supposed to ride either

This front (disc brake) axle I swapped in last summer and I just bolted it up to the springs. This is also my plow truck, and the plow is heavy enough it drops the front end by an inch or so when it's up.

Toe I can adjust myself. Any recommendations? 1/8"ish?

ebay shims

Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 01/24/12 05:00 AM

Quote:

The caster is low for some reason... springs settled a bit? The pinion angle may be off as well and the shims may even help.

Yeah, maybe grab a prybar and pry on the all four spring ends and see if there is play in those eye bushings. It is an old truck, they should be worn out by now? The alignment shop should have looked at them though......

Interesting that the 2Gens have the same specs, 'cuz they sure don't drive like the old ones. Way different suspension yes, but it's still pushing the same axle down the road.

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 01/24/12 05:03 AM

Quote:

Yeah, maybe grab a prybar and pry on the all four spring ends and see if there is play in those eye bushings. It is an old truck, they should be worn out by now? The alignment shop should have looked at them though......

Interesting that the 2Gens have the same specs, 'cuz they sure don't drive like the old ones. Way different suspension yes, but it's still pushing the same axle down the road.

Hmm, that's easy enough to check. I didn't notice anything weird when I swapped the axle, but I'll check them tomorrow to make sure there's no play in them.

Thanks for the thoughts

Posted By: ahy

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 01/24/12 12:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The springs do ride pretty much flat, but I'm not sure how they're supposed to ride either This front (disc brake) axle I swapped in last summer and I just bolted it up to the springs. This is also my plow truck, and the plow is heavy enough it drops the front end by an inch or so when it's up.

Toe I can adjust myself. Any recommendations?

ebay shims

I'd shoot for 3/16" personally.

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 01/25/12 04:36 AM

Quote:

Yeah, maybe grab a prybar and pry on the all four spring ends and see if there is play in those eye bushings. It is an old truck, they should be worn out by now? The alignment shop should have looked at them though.....

Checked that this evening. All four have no play in them. There are 5 steels in each, and they sit flat.

So I guess now I need to decide between 2* and 4* shims

And find 9/16" studs that are longer than 3" so I can bolt it all back together (which is being surprisingly hard)

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 01/28/12 06:43 PM

Any last thoughts before I go with 4* shims?

Thanks,

-Dave

Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 01/29/12 01:42 AM

Nope. As far as I know it's uncharted territory in your style of truck, so good luck.

I'd like to know how this works out; are you gonna update the thread?

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 09/09/12 04:23 AM

Well, finally got around to getting 4* shims, and installed them today. I'm kinda surprised how well it all went together. Got it done in a single afternoon

Only took it for a few mile test drive, but it does seem to track straight a bit better. Buuut, when I do make steering adjustments, there's still a couple inches of free play in the steering wheel before the wheels respond

Does anyone happen to have a list of all bolt in truck steering boxes, with ratios and PS input/output thread sizes? Thanks

Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 09/09/12 04:38 AM

Have you tried tightening the set screw on the steering box?

Not a 100% sure on the procedure, but I believe it's there to take the on center dead spot out.

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 09/09/12 05:32 AM

Yep, haven't checked it recently, but I did adjust it nice and tight a few years ago.

At that time I took off the arm between the pitman arm and the knuckle (name escapes me right now), and found I could rattle the end of the pitman arm 1/16"

Took the box out and adjusted it on the bench until it was perfect. It did help some, but not enough to make it tight enough my wife feels safe driving it.

Posted By: hooziewhatsit

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 09/17/12 07:07 AM

Took the truck to a friends place today and got his thoughts on it. We ended up screwing in the set screw by another 3/4 of a turn or so. That seems to have made all the difference.

When I adjusted it on the bench, I went until there was zero play in the pitman arm. Apparently I needed to go just a little farther. He was also thinking it made a difference whether it was adjusted while under power or not?

But anyways, I think I can check steering off my list of stuff to work on

Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 09/17/12 12:36 PM

Right on!

So is this mission accomplished?

Posted By: Jeremiah

Re: Analyze my (truck) alignment? - 09/17/12 03:32 PM

Yes!