Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX

Posted By: shortbed88

Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/19/12 12:51 PM

Hello,
The family will be getting bigger this year and I need to upgrade from my beater pickup to a family sedan. I have been wanting to join the local AutoX club and would like to learn in the new sedan. So my question is, what cars would be good starting points given a $2500 price cap? I have seen mention of Neon's,Intrepid's,Dippy's,ect in this forum. I thought I would get some opinions to see if there were cars I hadn't considered. Thanks

Posted By: patrick

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/19/12 02:25 PM

buy my 5th ave, all the hard work is done....

check the cars for sale section

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/19/12 05:46 PM

Neon ACR is the closest thing competitive in a SCCA Solo II class that might be in that price range.

Or buy a regular Neon and then look for people ACR take off used parts.

Posted By: Mattax

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/19/12 06:22 PM

For learning the game, almost anything will do. That's a tight budget and the hobby isn't as cheap as it used to be. My advice is find a vehicle for your family that also has at least decent throttle response. FWD vs RWD is largely personal preference - you can learn on either. Smaller car will be more responsive and more fun - a long wheelbase (and long wide bodies) require more work to weave through the cones.

There are some cars to avoid. I instructed a guy with an automatic transmission Neon that was incredibly unresponsive in the throttle. So if you get in it and its a total dog even with manually selecting the gears, find another. It doesn't need to be a torque monster, but at least somewhat responsive. In fact you will learn better with a less powerful car. It teaches you to be smooth and not to overdrive the corners.

You might luck out and find an older ex-Solo2 or rally car especially in the 'mini-mopar' catagory. For mopars in that group will be Omni/Horizon, Colt, Shadow and FWD Charger/Daytona etc. Your local SCCA region probably has a newsletter with classifieds where old solo cars often show up. The turbo versions of course will be extra tempting...

Of the vehicles you mentioned, I'd lean to the Diplomat and then the Neons. The Dippy group will only have limited upgrades possible due to the transverse bars, but if the bushings are not shot, you're good to get your feet wet and have fun. An ex-fleet vehicle would be the best starting package. One thing about autocrossing your DD is that you will be checking over the car before and sometimes after every event. Definately a motivator to be checking fluids, adjusting brakes, checking suspension bushings and bearings as well as tire condition.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/19/12 07:36 PM

Police package Crown Vic

Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/19/12 08:21 PM

91 or 92 Spirit R/T.

Posted By: dangina

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/20/12 02:32 AM

Quote:

Neon ACR is the closest thing competitive in a SCCA Solo II class that might be in that price range.

Or buy a regular Neon and then look for people ACR take off used parts.

cheap, easy to work on - used them for dirt and autox and still drive the kids home...

Posted By: patrick

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/20/12 12:46 PM

Quote:

Police package Crown Vic

yeah, this is probably the best value out there, but it's not a mopar...

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/20/12 04:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Police package Crown Vic

yeah, this is probably the best value out there, but it's not a mopar...

does it have to be a mopar? I had a 99 and it was a great car. I gave it to my dad and he loves it. For a big car it handles great, decent power stock (and they make upgrades that aren't $$$$) and they last forever. The suspention on them is crazy.The front sway bar is as big as my wrist. I'd bet if you put it on a diet, added a good exhaust system, some mustang goodies (intake, Mass air, fresh air, headers) and a tune it'd be a real steady AutoX car.

Posted By: racealittle

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/20/12 09:17 PM

I agree on the Crown Vic. The package is hard to beat. I had one for a few years and it was an absolute joy to drive.

When I took out the used car for a test drive, I was surprised at how well the Crown Vic (with a package) handled. Another ten minutes in an empty parking lot convinced me to buy it. I could only imagine what some upgrades would do for that car.

That car is much lighter than you think. I had a luxury, dual exhaust, rear air supension, version with a higher numerical gear ratio. I had to downsize the number of cars I owned at the time due to young teen drivers and insurance issues.

I would buy a Marauder package version at the right price in a heart beat.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/20/12 10:40 PM

For as tight and narrow autocross course are, I'd think a Crown Vic is just too big and heavy.

I'd think a used Omni GLH(S) or Shadow Shelby with 225/50/15 tires crammed on it would turn better times on an autocross course.

Now on a road course track day, that may be a different deal. And I'm sure a Omni or Shadow would not be as nice a daily driver.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/20/12 10:58 PM

the key here is the OP needs a new family sedan a GLHS is NOT a family sedan

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/20/12 11:15 PM

Quote:

the key here is the OP needs a new family sedan a GLHS is NOT a family sedan

Good point. I saw the Neon was in his list. But I guess and Neon has a lot more room than a GLHS.

Would you think one of the CSX Shelby's based on the Shadow have as much room as a Neon?

Posted By: RodStRace

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/21/12 01:54 AM

Wanting an autocross car and a family daily driver is worse than a street/strip car.
Compound that with a tight budget and you might as well ask for a sure-fire way to make millions without working, legally.

How often are you planning on replacing tires, brakes, and other wear items? How well equipped is your shop? How many hours do you have to check over the car each time it's asked to swap roles?
Just because they can do amazing things at 24 of lemons and the grassroots challenges does NOT mean this same car can be a reliable DD for a family. Those price points come from huge talent and single focus.

Posted By: joes68340s

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/21/12 03:36 AM

AutoX car under 2500. Glhs good luck. Ive had 2 and Im looking for one now. There either completly worn out with little parts available or over priced. Neons parts all over and can be found.

Posted By: 67autocross

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/21/12 03:56 AM

My Wife has a 98 Lexus GS thats a great performance sedan and has been super reliable. In fact I can't even think of one thing thats gone wrong with the car from when it was new.
I'm sure that if you looked you should start to find them in your price range, and I know for a fact that it will beat a Crown Vic cop car.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/21/12 03:37 PM

Quote:

My Wife has a 98 Lexus GS thats a great performance sedan and has been super reliable. In fact I can't even think of one thing thats gone wrong with the car from when it was new.
I'm sure that if you looked you should start to find them in your price range, and I know for a fact that it will beat a Crown Vic cop car.

yes but it's about 3x the cost.

Posted By: 67autocross

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/21/12 04:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My Wife has a 98 Lexus GS thats a great performance sedan and has been super reliable. In fact I can't even think of one thing thats gone wrong with the car from when it was new.
I'm sure that if you looked you should start to find them in your price range, and I know for a fact that it will beat a Crown Vic cop car.

yes but it's about 3x the cost.

Are they still worth that much? You would think that you could pick them up cheap by now , it's 13 years old.

Posted By: patrick

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/21/12 06:04 PM

Quote:

For as tight and narrow autocross course are, I'd think a Crown Vic is just too big and heavy.

I'd think a used Omni GLH(S) or Shadow Shelby with 225/50/15 tires crammed on it would turn better times on an autocross course.

Now on a road course track day, that may be a different deal. And I'm sure a Omni or Shadow would not be as nice a daily driver.

friend of mine did suprisingly well with his '96 impala SS

problem with an L and P body, is the newest ones are now 20 years old....M body cop cars are now ~25 years old...

Posted By: racealittle

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/21/12 07:03 PM

Quote:

For as tight and narrow autocross course are, I'd think a Crown Vic is just too big and heavy.

I'd think a used Omni GLH(S) or Shadow Shelby with 225/50/15 tires crammed on it would turn better times on an autocross course.

Now on a road course track day, that may be a different deal. And I'm sure a Omni or Shadow would not be as nice a daily driver.

How heavy do you think a police interceptor Crown Vic is? The price is right, the car is balanced, and handles pretty good with cop tires. You have to drive one before you condemn it. Its not the end all, be all. However, it has a spacious interior, generous trunk space, safe design for a family, and a great starting point as is. It is not a floaty, boaty, Vic commonly seen with seniors behind the wheel.

I also would bet that the Vic is more solid than any of the speacially equipped Omni's left on this earth.

If a solid police M body car could be found, it might be a candidate, but I know it would weigh more and lack the safety features that a family deserves.

I don't think the OP can be an all out racer with a family car, but the right car in a tight budget could be fun.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/21/12 07:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My Wife has a 98 Lexus GS thats a great performance sedan and has been super reliable. In fact I can't even think of one thing thats gone wrong with the car from when it was new.
I'm sure that if you looked you should start to find them in your price range, and I know for a fact that it will beat a Crown Vic cop car.

yes but it's about 3x the cost.

Are they still worth that much? You would think that you could pick them up cheap by now , it's 13 years old.

Lexus and its a 300 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-LEXU...=item20c16e1e16

2002 crown Vic (P71) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-Ford...=item19ccdf3f24

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/21/12 07:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

For as tight and narrow autocross course are, I'd think a Crown Vic is just too big and heavy.

I'd think a used Omni GLH(S) or Shadow Shelby with 225/50/15 tires crammed on it would turn better times on an autocross course.

Now on a road course track day, that may be a different deal. And I'm sure a Omni or Shadow would not be as nice a daily driver.

How heavy do you think a police interceptor Crown Vic is? The price is right, the car is balanced, and handles pretty good with cop tires. You have to drive one before you condemn it. Its not the end all, be all. However, it has a spacious interior, generous trunk space, safe design for a family, and a great starting point as is. It is not a floaty, boaty, Vic commonly seen with seniors behind the wheel.

I also would bet that the Vic is more solid than any of the speacially equipped Omni's left on this earth.

If a solid police M body car could be found, it might be a candidate, but I know it would weigh more and lack the safety features that a family deserves.

I don't think the OP can be an all out racer with a family car, but the right car in a tight budget could be fun.

I'm just talking in terms of autocross times. Not condemning Crown Vics. There's obviously going to be some compromises made in terms of practicality.

The OP mention cars that range in size from a Neon to Diplomat. And didn't say how big his family was going to get.

Some other cars not mentioned...A Mazda 626 performance version and Ford Probe GT (same cars) were competitive Solo II G-Stock cars back in the mid 90's.

Posted By: DUFFMAN

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/22/12 02:25 AM

If your not stuck on Mopar the best you'll do for a $2500 budget is a BMW e30 or e36 3-series sedan. Small, lightweight, nimble, rwd and tons of aftermarket.

If you must stay Mopar then it's Neon all the way. Same attributes as the little Bimmers, except fwd.

Posted By: jcc

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/22/12 02:32 AM

From my experience trying to adapt any big street car for decent track use, the biggest and most important shortcoming will be the brakes, after a few how laps in the summer time, the guard rails will likely win. A small/light car may have the same issues, but likely easier to solve, with pad choice, high temp brake fluid, and basic ductwork. It is not a lot of fun worrying about your brakes as you approach your braking points.

My bad, I thought this thread started out as an AX OR track use car question, hardly anything I mentioned above applies for AX, as also stated in the following thread.

Posted By: Mattax

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/22/12 05:10 AM

While there are some aspects of autocross use that transfer to track use there are a number of things that do not. Stock brakes correctly adjusted with fresh fluid are fine, with the exception of a very few number of vehicles. This is why I did not list factory brakes as an item that will kill the fun factor for someone getting his feet wet.

Maybe more critical is for those who have not (yet) participated is to understand that autocross is not like driving on the street. There are no straights and there is no time to catch your breath. Autocross is all about transition and thinking ahead for 50 - 70 seconds non-stop. You must be comfortable in the vehicle so you're not thinking about it. That's the key. A guy who drives a pickup truck will likely be fine in da*$ near anything, at least RWD

The OP, or anypone else getting started should just show up with whatever they've got and learn the game. Since you're changing vehicles I threw out some guidelines of what will keep it reasonable fun. Everyone has a limit where if something is too difficult they get frustrated. The OP did not say anything about winning, but a person who has a low tolerance for finishing dead last should start with the rule book and by showing up and observing. Without knowing the classing structure and what's hot, what was hot, and what might be hot, you're clueless. There are some decent handling street cars that don't class well a particular year (or more) and vicaversa. There are also cars that are great on a track or street but are difficult to make into good autocrossers.

Posted By: shortbed88

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/23/12 11:59 AM

Thanks for all the ideas. I am not limiting myself to a mopar, I just wanted to see if there might have been models I had not considered. A Ford P71 Crown Vic has been at the front of my list due to the size and current pricing. The reason I left the Neon in the group is I have heard how capable they can be on an AutoX course. I am not sure that it is worth the trade off of giving up the extra space offered by a full size car, but the higher gas mileage is tempting. I just plan to go out and drive a few cars and buy something that feels like a good fit. I will expand my search to include some of the other models suggested here. Thanks

Posted By: Rick_Ehrenberg

Re: Need a new family sedan under $2500 . Looking to AutoX - 01/24/12 03:31 PM

I agree with the PL crowd (Neon). Any 1G Neon, MT, with some swaybars bolted on, and decent rubber (Dunlop StarSpec for dual-duty) is gonna be hard to beat. Even the 2Gs are decent, albeit porkier.

The tighter the course, the greater the small-car advantage. Around here, I ran my Road Runner in some local events. I could barely see the cones...and a almost hadda back up for some of the corners (like a 3-point U-ey).

Also, even driven like an animal, 30 MPG is pie.

Rick E.