Moparts

How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind?

Posted By: racealittle

How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/12/12 11:43 PM

Like the subject title says.

I like a car that handles; I like a car that hooks.

I don't see much track time a the drags anymore for a number of reasons.

So I've been trying to make my next car, (likely my last car), the best balance of the two schools of thought, but this car will be mainly a driver that should be able to drive anywhere.

I have been freshening the body of my 1974 Challenger. It is structure wise the most sound it has been since new. The frame is tied, the 6 point cage was removed, the whole back half of the car has been rebuilt with new steel panels, all structural steel repaired or replaced. A cage could go back into the car if I choose; the steel plate has been welded into the key structure points under the new sheetmetal. At this time I want to avoid a cage.

I believe in the Hotchkis components, but have only chosen the upper control arm and strutbar kits. I am going to reinforce the lower control arms, and likely get the Hotchkis front sway bar. I would like to believe that the chosen components, other an using a front swaybar will help with occasional trips to the drag strip. The front torsion bars are the stock .96 bars that came with my car. I have a mild 440, 727 GV, for the drivetrain.

The rear has a new set of XHD springs that came with the car. I have an e body 8 3/4, dana, and a b body 8 3/4 to choose for the rear axle.
I also have a Dr. Diff 1 1/2" spring relocation kit to use if I choose. I also have a Finelines rear disc break kit. I know the rallye wheels won't fit over the rear brake kit I chose.

I have always had an assortment of wheels and tires for previous cars; ralleys, plain steel with dog dish, and centerlines. I do realize that I may need a 9" set of matching rims and tires for cornering. I'm not really sure how to choose a rim for both the front and rear that can be rotated for tire wear. I will keep a set of dedicated rims and tires for drags.

I thought about the Hotchkis rear springs, but think the XHD's with the optional hole in the Dr. Diff hanger kit may suffice for the level of performance my multiple purpose car needs. A stock rear sway bar or a new Hotchkis will go in the rear. Choice of shocks will have to be determined after ride height is established.

Anyone else trying to build a multi purpose car that can do a little of everything substationally better than stock?
Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/12/12 11:56 PM

I had a Camaro years ago that had to remain smog compliant to get annual registration. Being limited to smog legal engine mods, I turned to handling as my focus. When I got the Charger, I kept some of my interest in handling, but went a little wild in the power department. I ran it at Sacramento raceway a few times, but not enough to improve my technique. I'm a better driver where turns and braking come into play.
I set up the car with a front end rebuild plus a few bolt on upgrades, but to make a good thing even better, I'm going to need to roll out the welder.
Posted By: amxautox

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/13/12 12:01 AM

No reason at all why a well build cornering car couldn't be used for anything, even drag racing. Some people say to unbolt one end of the sway bar when drag racing, but others have done fine with it bolted together.
Posted By: Viol8r

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/13/12 12:01 AM

I think the term we can throw out there is "Pro-Touring". I know some guys may not like the term but at least it gives us point of reference for the type of car you are looking for.

There are too many degrees of how versatile your car can be to get into it one post, but I think you are on the right track.

Let me give you one pointer with the rear springs, at least with B-bodies, they do not come with the same rates left and right. The best thing to do is buy two left's or go with Firm Feel or Hotchkis. These are designed to balance the car out.

My car is built to the versatility you are thinking of. It can be tracked, drags or road course, but it can also be driven cross country comfortably.
Posted By: 70chall440

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/13/12 01:55 AM

I think it all comes down to expectations. I do not believe you can have a do it all exceptionally well car; by that I mean each discipline requires specific things to make it as good as it can get in that area. A road race car will have different considerations than a drag car and the other way around. All that said, there isnt any reaon that you cannot make your car do everything to one degree or the other reasonibly well, so long as you are willing to accept some limitations. In my case, I am not interested in drag racing my car, however I definitely want it to handle exceptionally well. For this reason I braced the crap out of everything. I also want it to be comfortable on the street as that is where it will see most of its use. Subseqently, I have added Hush mat (very heavy) and will have a sterio, carpet, etc. As mentioned, I think "Pro Touring" is probably the best description available. The advent of the modern "muscle" cars, we have become spoiled and want a car that does everything and gets 30 mpg (not saying this is the case here). I am the same way, however through the process of my build have had to compromise with reality due to finances and overall desired outcome. I stuck with power steering but went with manual brakes, stuck with manual roll up windows but went with a tilt wheel and push button start.

I know I am not saying anything you dont already know or have thought about. Just offering my opinion.
Posted By: racealittle

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/13/12 03:21 AM

I fully understand that that there is give and take involved with having one car that tries to do it all. Component choice, ride height, the wrong kind of driver seat, etc., but having some components that suit all considerations, and others that can be taken from the shelf, bolted on or unbolted and shelved, is what I am leaning toward.

I am not afraid to spend time prepping a car toward a goal for an activity, event, or series of events; then put the car back to being a good ride. That is one thing that I learned about drag racing, or what makes a street car a good car. I have had a car that handled and turned it into a race car, but this is taking it a few steps further.

I already have way too much car stuff that I don't want to part with, and housing just one toy is becoming more of a necessity.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/13/12 04:06 AM

I put 80K miles on this setup in 14 years. It's been autocrossed, driven across country, 80 mile round trip commute to work through Los Angeles, driven in snow, sleet, ice....

SUSPENSION
•TORSION BARS: .99" 184 Lb./ft wheel rate stock .87" 109 Lb./ft, livable, stiff
•REAR SPRINGS: Stock for 8¾ 68 Formula S. Car seems balanced now. Might need stiffer so don't need rear sway bar. If so, will just add leaves to dial in. But soft helps planting and rear transfer. Good shocks might have to come first. Need testing to sort out.
•73-76 K-member: reinforced
•FRONT SWAY BAR: Hellwig 1 1/4" hollow, before that 1 1/4 solid Addco, before that stock.
•REAR SWAY BAR: ¾" dia. Addco aftermarket ($35 used)
•SHOCKS: Front QA1 single adj ($75 used) blew out all my hand-me-down used Konis, Rears: Hand me down KYB's
•POLYGRAPHITE: sway bar, brake strut rods, lower control arms. Leaf bushings; can hear slight resonance when added to rear. Would not use LCA poly again.
•UPPER A-ARM BUSHINGS: offset, Moog prt.# 7103 installed opposite, more caster, more road feel, more high speed stability
•STEERING STEERING GEAR: Replacement Mopar remanufactured. Large steering gear spline, crisp, firmer, but not Firm Feel
•PITMAN, IDLER, CENTERLINK: all ‘73-‘76 A-body, to accept large spline gear
•POWER STEERING FLUID: Justice Brothers heavy duty, don't change often, so extra cost is cheap assurance
•POWER STEERING CAP: later style multi knobbed style with rubber baffle to stop spitting up.
•Future plans: Adding factory power steering cooler, in-line filter, and braided lines for power steering .

BRAKES
•PADS: Discontinued Mopar Police Spec Semi Metalic units ($15 swap meet score)
•DISKS: 11.75" dia junkyard single piston disks
•BRAKE LINES: braided, w/banjo on caliper end for rear caliper placement
•BRAKE FLUID: Justice Brothers High Performance Dot 4
•MASTER CYLINDER: Mopar Performance alum. 2 bolt, 1-1/32" bore, firm immediate pedal, feels great, not for your grandma. Started with manual drums. Thicker master cly adapter to adj. pedal height down. Be aware of pushrod length.
•PROPORTIONING VALVE: Willwood adjustable, had drum brakes so need some proportioning valve
•DRUMS: vented "bell or hat" drums for cooling
•REAR AXLES: 4 ½" bolt redrilled pattern

WHEELS
•15x8 4 1/2" backspace Rallye rims 245/50/15 BFG Comp T/A's ZR all around. (That size is totally discontinued)
INTERIOR
•STEERING WHEEL: LaCarra 15" padded leather, better grip, small dia. gives more responsive feel ($30 never installed swap meet score)
•SEATS: Used Toyota Celica GTS increased g’s so need better seats, must race car from drivers side







Attached picture 7015709-ButtonwillowPic4.jpg
Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/13/12 05:54 AM

I'm not going autocrossing and I'm not going drag racing, I'm driving my stuff as often as I can. That means, first and foremost, a car that handles good and brakes good. After that, as much power as I think I can afford to drive anywhere I feel like it. All while spending as little as possible (so the "Pro Touring" tag certainly doesn't fit, I like "amatuer touring").

Basically I have always looked for the best road manners out of my Mopars. Some have been better than others and we did go a bit farther in the handling department in my son's Barracuda. I got hooked on that idea in 1977 when I met a guy with a 66 Commando/four speed/handling package/disc brake Barracuda (but not a Formula S). That car became mine about three and a half years later.
Posted By: A57_RT

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/13/12 04:38 PM

Yep... Im probably wrong here, so can some post pics of a Pro-Touring type car before I put my foot in my mouth. Most Pro-Touring cars ive seen listed for sale look to be more bling then function, so id like to see the real ones.
Posted By: MrAngry

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/13/12 05:15 PM

Look at the pics I just posted in the "Cornering Post"... both pro-touring, both fully functional, both cars can and are used as daily drivers if desired.
Posted By: A57_RT

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/13/12 05:22 PM

Thats more what I picture myself Mr Angry, just recently ive seen a few cars listed as PT cars on 20s and airbags that would rub a fender if they ran over a soda can.

Ive the R/T and I just got my 85 capri out this past week thats been put up since 87, minor mods for its day, actually looks like a capri in the back of Toms cuda in the one pic.

Attached picture 7016401-DSC00817.JPG
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/13/12 05:23 PM

Quote:

Yep... Im probably wrong here, so can some post pics of a Pro-Touring type car before I put my foot in my mouth. Most Pro-Touring cars ive seen listed for sale look to be more bling then function, so id like to see the real ones.





No arguement
Posted By: A57_RT

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/13/12 05:29 PM

This for sale and is refered to as a PT car....Id really like to see it in action. Very minor mods, asking 30k. Nice bling car...

Attached picture 7016412-PT.jpg
Posted By: ahy

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 12:23 AM

A couple of suggestions based on running a '70 E. With the suspension parts gusseted and stiffened up and frame connectors added (important) the car can handle higher spring rates without being harsh. Matched with good shocks, 1" T bars work well without being punishing. Some folks like 1 size bigger for street use.

For tires, the E can handle wider tires on the back than the front without modifications. Front can be in the 225-245 range and rears in the 255-275 range depending on your particular car and tolerence for close fit or rub. You could put 235's or 245's all around or take advantage of the added room in the rear and use wider tires like the factory did on the road race cars.

I am running XHD springs. Height was just about right when new but they have dropped since then which turns out to be OK... they are a little soft also. As a winter project I plan to visit my local spring shop and get a leaf added to get the stiffness and height I am looking for.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 03:37 AM

I touched on this topic in my B-body book. Basically any car will benefit from reduced weight, good weight distribution and a stiffer chassis. The high performance OEM cars these days are very quick at the drag strip even though they are optimized for road and track type use. But light weight, good chassis, traction control, high engine power, etc. all combine to also provide excellent drag strip performance.

The high end Mustang, Vette, Porsche, etc will run quicker 1/4 times than anything ever made in the muscle car era including the factory built drag cars. The 2013 Mustang is supposed to go low 11's with a 200+ mph top speed right off the dealer floor. So that is a pretty versatile car.

If you want to go faster at the drag strip then at some point you start to compromise handling, but the new Mustang and Vette are examples of cars that can run 11's while still being fully capable of daily driving in most any type of weather for most any distance.
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 04:21 AM

My only advice is to use as wide a tire as possible. You will only eat what you can bite!
Posted By: amxautox

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 04:28 AM

Too wide a tire will be detrimental to the fuel milage. And can wear out some of the steering components quicker, puts more stress on them.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 04:48 AM

Quote:

My only advice is to use as wide a tire as possible. You will only eat what you can bite!



And you should be able to fit a 275/40/17 in the front of an E-body with little if any mods.

IMHO, a big heavy E-body with something as narrow as a 225 wide tire is nothing but a bottleneck.
Posted By: jcc

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 04:57 AM

Quote:

Too wide a tire will be detrimental to the fuel milage.



Party pooper
Posted By: amxautox

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 05:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Too wide a tire will be detrimental to the fuel milage.



Party pooper

Well, versatile also means driving cross country, thus fuel milage.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 05:05 AM

Quote:

Too wide a tire will be detrimental to the fuel milage. And can wear out some of the steering components quicker, puts more stress on them.



A 2003 Mustang GT has 245 wide tires and weighs about 3400 lbs. I'm sure if you put the tires off a Prius it would get slightly better MPG. But suriously?
Posted By: 72Swinger

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 05:34 AM

Too narrow a tire will be detrimental to pristine sheetmetal when you push right into a tire wall.....
Posted By: amxautox

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 05:37 AM

You don't use skinny tires on track.
Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind - 01/14/12 01:27 PM

How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? My vintage corner carvers all have factory cruise control...If done properly it's still transportation and can be used as such.

Every hot rod I build & run on the road course gets driven to and from the track and taken on real road trips. Drag strip visits to check top mph thru the traps are fun too.

Others call it pro-touring
I call it well thought out.
Posted By: ahy

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 03:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My only advice is to use as wide a tire as possible. You will only eat what you can bite!



And you should be able to fit a 275/40/17 in the front of an E-body with little if any mods.

IMHO, a big heavy E-body with something as narrow as a 225 wide tire is nothing but a bottleneck.



I'd love to figure out how to fit 275's in the front of an E without mods. Mine has the "rolled lip" fenders from the factory and no other mods. I pulled the Tbars and measured with a checking wheel/tire at full lock L/R, full jounce and full re-bound. My standard was minimum 1/2" clearance at extreme conditions. Perhaps a bit conservative but I figured if I catch and deflate a tire under extreme conditions it wouldn't handle so well! Anyhow, with that standard I went with 225's on custom backspace wheels to optimize fit. The frame rails on an E are set wide for BB/Hemi engines which limits wheel well space.

I'd love to hear how to make it work with the wider tires short of flaring the fenders... which I may do some day.
Posted By: Supercuda

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 03:44 PM

Ever since I started buying A bodies I have built my rides to handle and go. All have been daily drivers as well. With the exception of my 65 Cuda, which hasn't been registered since 98, dang that long? There is no reason they can be versatile. In fact I would say they are more versatile than a dedicated drag car.

If you want to be fast on the course you have to have good handling, good brakes and good power. All my rides have had AC and cruise control (except cruise on the Cuda). Good radios, comfortable seats and are fun to drive.
Posted By: racealittle

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind - 01/14/12 05:34 PM

Quote:

How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? My vintage corner carvers all have factory cruise control...If done properly it's still transportation and can be used as such.

Every hot rod I build & run on the road course gets driven to and from the track and taken on real road trips. Drag strip visits to check top mph thru the traps are fun too.

Others call it pro-touring
I call it well thought out.



Tom, that is the way I would like to think about my car, "well thought out".

The dragstip habit came from needing a safe place to test the performance of my ride. I don't want to see my car seized and crushed for doing the things I did in my youth. Driving this kind of car can easily get you a stunt driving charge on the street.

I do realize there will always be change because I tend to keep a car for 30 years and constantly play with ideas. Just not sure that I have 30 years left and am after the experience of others and just get to the point of having fun behind the wheel every time I get behind it. ASAP
Posted By: racealittle

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 05:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My only advice is to use as wide a tire as possible. You will only eat what you can bite!



And you should be able to fit a 275/40/17 in the front of an E-body with little if any mods.

IMHO, a big heavy E-body with something as narrow as a 225 wide tire is nothing but a bottleneck.



I'd love to figure out how to fit 275's in the front of an E without mods. Mine has the "rolled lip" fenders from the factory and no other mods. I pulled the Tbars and measured with a checking wheel/tire at full lock L/R, full jounce and full re-bound. My standard was minimum 1/2" clearance at extreme conditions. Perhaps a bit conservative but I figured if I catch and deflate a tire under extreme conditions it wouldn't handle so well! Anyhow, with that standard I went with 225's on custom backspace wheels to optimize fit. The frame rails on an E are set wide for BB/Hemi engines which limits wheel well space.

I'd love to hear how to make it work with the wider tires short of flaring the fenders... which I may do some day.



I personally don't want to alter stock sheet metal to fit tires/rims. I really would like to find the right rim and tire combination, (preferably same size so they can be rotated for wear). So I guess the limit will be whatever the maximum combination fits in the front wheel well. Hopefully it looks good in the back and still do the job.

I am still seriously considering using the Dr. Diff 1.5" relocation kit for the rear for maximum DOT tires for drag days. I will likely have to keep the stock e-body rear axle to acheive all considerations.

One item that I didn't mention, was that I designed a hidden hitch to pull a small trailer for those times when you need more carrying capacity. So towing 1000-1500 lbs. max at times is also in the plan.
Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 06:27 PM

Quote:


I'd love to figure out how to fit 275's in the front of an E without mods.



Can only be done with 17"+ wheels with 5"+ backspace. Backspace and tire section width measurements are critical to the fit and require a bit more homework than some are willing to put in. There simply isn't enough real estate there to make it work with a 15" tire.

To the original post, how verstile is a car that corners, IMO, very. Yes, Pro-touring is the axoim that is eaily applied these days, but it is important to seperate the real cars from the posers when it comes to that title. Drop springs and 20" wheels don't automatically qualify any more than a tubbed car with a blower was a pro streeter. If you look at cars in the Ultiamte Street Car Challenge, you can see where they walk the talk and are very capable of multiple disciplines. In the real world where most of us can't build $100k cars, it is still relevent. The world is comprised of straights and corners, stop lights and open roads. Being able to successfully engage all of those means your car will be more enjoyable to drive and ultimately you'll be driving and enjoying it more and thats what should really bring a smile to your face.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind? - 01/14/12 06:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My only advice is to use as wide a tire as possible. You will only eat what you can bite!



And you should be able to fit a 275/40/17 in the front of an E-body with little if any mods.

IMHO, a big heavy E-body with something as narrow as a 225 wide tire is nothing but a bottleneck.



I'd love to figure out how to fit 275's in the front of an E without mods. Mine has the "rolled lip" fenders from the factory and no other mods. I pulled the Tbars and measured with a checking wheel/tire at full lock L/R, full jounce and full re-bound. My standard was minimum 1/2" clearance at extreme conditions. Perhaps a bit conservative but I figured if I catch and deflate a tire under extreme conditions it wouldn't handle so well! Anyhow, with that standard I went with 225's on custom backspace wheels to optimize fit. The frame rails on an E are set wide for BB/Hemi engines which limits wheel well space.

I'd love to hear how to make it work with the wider tires short of flaring the fenders... which I may do some day.



I personally don't want to alter stock sheet metal to fit tires/rims. I really would like to find the right rim and tire combination, (preferably same size so they can be rotated for wear). So I guess the limit will be whatever the maximum combination fits in the front wheel well. Hopefully it looks good in the back and still do the job.

I am still seriously considering using the Dr. Diff 1.5" relocation kit for the rear for maximum DOT tires for drag days. I will likely have to keep the stock e-body rear axle to acheive all considerations.

One item that I didn't mention, was that I designed a hidden hitch to pull a small trailer for those times when you need more carrying capacity. So towing 1000-1500 lbs. max at times is also in the plan.



I think you should look into 275/40/17 with 17x9 and 5.25" to 5.5" backspacing in the front. Even easier with a 18x9 and 275/35/18 tires. There is a very good possibility they will fit without fender mods. The only fender mod that would be necesscary is folding the very bottom corner front edge of the fender lip in a maximum 1" by 2" triangle. The key is getting the maximnum backspacing correct

I'm sure that will fit the rear but I don't know about the exact backspacing with that relocation kit.

If you do something like that you could have a decent sized rear tire that you could rotate with the front.

cudazappa runs 275/40/17 IIRC on his 71 Challenger. Maybe he can chime in on this.

I going to do that with an A-body that has a lot less room than an E-body.
Posted By: jcc

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind - 01/14/12 08:40 PM

Quote:

Others call it pro-touring
I call it well thought out.



Tom, that is the way I would like to think about my car, "well thought out".






I promise to drop the use of "just sayin, irregardless, etc" if we lose the "pro-touring" moniker, it just sounds so worn out, superficial, and phony.
Posted By: racealittle

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind - 01/14/12 08:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Others call it pro-touring
I call it well thought out.



Tom, that is the way I would like to think about my car, "well thought out".






I promise to drop the use of "just sayin, irregardless, etc" if we lose the "pro-touring" moniker, it just sounds so worn out, superficial, and phony.



Real cars should do it all, and do it well. Hopefully I get my car back from my paint/body guy over the next month. The car is so far apart that I'm running out of faith that I can get roadworthy by early summer.
Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind - 01/15/12 02:24 AM

Quote:


I promise to drop the use of "just sayin, irregardless, etc" if we lose the "pro-touring" moniker, it just sounds so worn out, superficial, and phony.



HA !! Its a DEAL !!

Posted By: amxautox

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind - 01/15/12 02:26 AM

"Handling Mods"



Posted By: Mopar Mitch

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind - 01/16/12 08:42 PM

IF I had to drive my SCCA Solo II nationally-prepped E/Street Prepared Challenger T/A on the street every day(excluding winters), I could. Sure, I would also have some "street" treaded tires on the car (which I have BFG RadT/A mounted on 15x8 vintage minilite rims). So, simply to compensate for the harsh suspension (set up for maximum Solo II autocross, as well as hi-speed road course lapping sessions), I just lower the tire pressures to about 28 lbs f/r (246-60-15 front, 275-60-15 rear)... as opposed to my Hoosier auto-x 274-45-16s.
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind - 01/16/12 09:10 PM

Quote:

IF I had to drive my SCCA Solo II nationally-prepped E/Street Prepared Challenger T/A on the street every day(excluding winters), I could. Sure, I would also have some "street" treaded tires on the car (which I have BFG RadT/A mounted on 15x8 vintage minilite rims). So, simply to compensate for the harsh suspension (set up for maximum Solo II autocross, as well as hi-speed road course lapping sessions), I just lower the tire pressures to about 28 lbs f/r (246-60-15 front, 275-60-15 rear)... as opposed to my Hoosier auto-x 274-45-16s.



Just an FYI,

Mopar Mitch (Mitch Lelito) is one of the most sucessfull SCCA Solo II autocross competitors with a Mopar pre 1990 RWD V-8 car. His Challenger T/A has been featured in many articles, Mopar Performance Catalogs, he has wrote articles, etc over the past 30+ years that he has been competitive with the car.

Attached picture 7021840-Lelito3.jpg
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind - 01/17/12 11:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

IF I had to drive my SCCA Solo II nationally-prepped E/Street Prepared Challenger T/A on the street every day(excluding winters), I could. Sure, I would also have some "street" treaded tires on the car (which I have BFG RadT/A mounted on 15x8 vintage minilite rims). So, simply to compensate for the harsh suspension (set up for maximum Solo II autocross, as well as hi-speed road course lapping sessions), I just lower the tire pressures to about 28 lbs f/r (246-60-15 front, 275-60-15 rear)... as opposed to my Hoosier auto-x 274-45-16s.



Just an FYI,

Mopar Mitch (Mitch Lelito) is one of the most sucessfull SCCA Solo II autocross competitors with a Mopar pre 1990 RWD V-8 car. His Challenger T/A has been featured in many articles, Mopar Performance Catalogs, he has wrote articles, etc over the past 30+ years that he has been competitive with the car.



To further that 'FYI'...

That Challenger ov Mitch's was doing all this FAR before Hotrod magazine started the whole 'pro-touring' trend, launching ten thousand projects. If i never hear 'pro-touring' again it'll be fine by me. Stinks up the headspace not unlike the 'pro-street' mess ov the 90's...

I remember reading about that T/A before i'd even owned my first Mopar. Probably have those articles memorized.
Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind - 01/17/12 12:13 PM


I think a good all around performing (acceleration, cornering, braking, driving, etc.) 'retro'd muscle car can be versatile. I plan on keeping mine particularly useful as an everyday car. Everyone will have different standards. Mine will accelerate, top end, corner and brake well. It will be very drivable, but by MY standards (maybe not yours). It wont have power anything, it might not even have a heater (and i live in Canada). It will have two seats, a roll bar, it will feel like a race car inside, but it will start and drive anytime, anywhere. A good 'Mad Max' car if you will.

I plan on getting a full suspension kit, but it will have to be modified because i do NOT like lowered cars. The Challenger especially looks boatish when its too low... the available tire space diminishes, and that means small tires. Severe lowering can look cool, but the meat MUST still be there. The Hotchkis T/A is a good example... the tires are way too small for my liking and the car just looks big/long/heavy. I dont yet know how i'm going to pull this off, but i will. I'll give up a bit in the G-dept. but that might just be made up with bigger tires than most and a lighter car than most (both in the works).

If my car wasn't 100% virgin sheetmetal and paint and straight i'd just cut the wheelwells... but it is, so i cant get off so easy.

The other problem with low cars is that unless you live in Germany, the roads suck. Potholes, curbs, speedbumps, and other assorted obstacles... can make driving a low car (daily driving) miserable. My car will also see a lot ov gravel roads and dirt roads... i get into all kinds ov weird places with my cars... so stock ride height is a minimum for me.

The two biggest hang-ups for me right now (in terms ov non-versatility) are going to be fuel mileage, and security. My budget for the first phase is already blown, so i'm stuck with a 40 year old engine to power the thing. Even a fairly efficient 383 is going to inhale gas without an overdrive. I'll be going modern as soon as possible. As for security, thats not such an easy fix. Probably the biggest worry about driving this thing daily is going to be it getting stolen... and not a lot i can do about that.
Posted By: HUSTLESTUFF

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind - 01/17/12 12:19 PM

"As for security, thats not such an easy fix. Probably the biggest worry about driving this thing daily is going to be it getting stolen... and not a lot i can do about that.

There are satellite trackers for that with cut offs geofences and rapid tracking. Look here... ttp://www.rmtracking.com/
Posted By: jcc

Re: How versatile is a car built with cornering in mind - 01/17/12 05:19 PM

Living in So Fla my concern about security is usually with me in it, ie carjacking, I mean you know what they say about women that dress provocatively, same would seem to be true driving a hot car, I've rigged up a fuel cutoff to be kicked when exiting car under unpleasant circumstances, and the car likely will run out of gas unexpectedly for the perps, about 1/2 block away, hoping they panic and flee, giving me time to develope a new plan.
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