Moparts
What suspension mods are in YOUR B body?
Posted By: Kern Dog
What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/06/12 05:54 AM
My 70 Charger has a fully rebuilt suspension with a few upgrades, but over the winter I'm going to make a few changes. As it is now, it responds and handles decent but lacks the "locked on rails" feeling I had with a modified 76 Camaro that I used to own.
The Charger has solid floors and frame rails. I rebuilt the front suspension using poly bushings in the UCAs and strut rods, but used rubber bushings in the LCAs. I have 1" torsion bars and a 1 1/8" front sway bar with KYB shocks. The alignment is set to 1/2 degree NEG camber, 3 degrees POS caster and zero toe. The rear has MP leaf springs, a 3/4" sway bar and KYB shocks. 18x9 front wheels with 275-40-18 Nitto 555 tires, 18x10 rears with 295-45-18 Nitto tires. NO frame connectors yet... Thats one of the upcoming changes. I have a Firm Feel stage 3 steering box with Fast ratio idler and pitman arms. Sometimes the rear end wants to come around whether I'm on the throttle or not. I rarely if ever get any understeer. I have an aluminum headed 440 stroker which may weigh about the same as the iron headed 318 that was there originally. I'm sure that my roll stiffness is greater at the rear than the front and I could remedy this 2 ways: Either increase the front rate with larger torsion bars or a thicker sway bar.... OR reduce the rear with softer springs aor a smaller sway bar.
My question is as stated... What suspension mods or upgrades have you made with your B body? I'm curious as to what others are using and how well it works... Thanks!
Posted By: astjp2
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/06/12 06:32 AM
How do you like the 555 Nitto tires? I am thinking of getting those in a 275/50/17. Tim
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/06/12 02:57 PM
nothing really...newer XHD springs, new gas shocks, factory front end rebuild with GOOD parts. Before I removed the sway bar and went w/ skinnies it handled drove nice. I just added traction bars to see if I can get the 60 foot down to 1.50 if not they are coming off.
Posted By: MrAngry
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/06/12 08:27 PM
Here you go:
• Firm Feel or Magnum Force Tubular upper control arms
• Ditch the KYB's and put in a set of Edelbrock Performer IAS shocks
• Go to the 1 3/8 front sway bar from Hotchkis and a 7/8 rear bar
• ABSOLUTELY install sub-frame connectors and if you can, get the XV motorsports chassis stiffening kit. It includes inner fender well braces and under hood shock tower brace.
• You've already got the FF stage 3 steering box with Fast ratio idler and pitman arms - good move.
• Minimum of .96 on the torsion bars. This will help you out A LOT.
The biggest thing I can see right off the bat are KYB's - ditch them, they're junk. If you really want to improve the ride and handling Ridetech makes a beautiful set of single adjustable. I just got them and am just waiting to do the install.
Remember, this an 18-foot, 4,000 lb car so if you're looking for Corvette handling it simply ain't gonna happen without going to a coil-over conversion and 3-link rear but that big $$$
Hope this helps.
Posted By: b54406barrel
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/06/12 11:12 PM
See my avatar picture.
Sorry, couldn't resist!
Bunny shocks, rule!
Posted By: ahy
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/07/12 12:38 AM
Its an E but a close relative so here it is:
- 2x2 welded frame connectors
- torque boxes
- welded and gusseted K
- tubular upper arms
- adjustable strut rods (added to help bring in alignment. The left side needed a little help to seat the LCA in the poly bushing)
- C body size tie rods
- 1" T bars
- XHD springs
- FF sway bar, front and rear
- poly bushings
- FF level II box
- KYB Shocks
- 17" Z rated tires. 225/45 on the front and 255/40 on the rear.
I would say it has that "handles on rails" feel. Getting the alignment dialed was the "icing on the cake". I'm running about -.75 degree camber and a bit over 5 degrees positive caster with factory toe settings.
I'm happy with the KYB's. If I tried Koni's or Bilstein I might like it better but I have better uses for the $300+ right now.
If I did it again, I'd probably go with 18" wheels. There are lots of tires available for 17's, however, the Z rated max performance tires are all fairly short... around 25" overall. Similar type tires in 18's are 26" or a bit more.
Posted By: MrAngry
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/07/12 01:05 AM
Trust me... KYB's AND Koni's are junk for serious road work. If you plan on really driving the car go for the Edelbrocks, Bilstein's or Ridetech shocks.
A nice set of drop spindles doesn't hurt either.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/07/12 03:30 AM
Quote:
Trust me... KYB's AND Koni's are junk for serious road work. If you plan on really driving the car go for the Edelbrocks, Bilstein's or Ridetech shocks.
A nice set of drop spindles doesn't hurt either.
I keep hearing negative comments about the KYB shocks! I never knew that they were the scourge of the hobby! The car rides firm, but not harsh. From all the stuff that I have read, this reminds me of when I bought my new bed. I didn't realize what a worn out piece of crap that the old bed was! I'll have to try the Edelbrocks and swap these KYBs to one of the cars I plan to SELL. Does anyone know the pricing on the Edelbrocks?
Regarding the Nitto 555 tires: Great in all areas, handling, steering response, braking.... But they are a little loose under throttle! 
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/07/12 07:51 PM
Quote:
I rebuilt the front suspension using poly bushings in the UCAs and strut rods, but used rubber bushings in the LCAs.
There is a slop point in the rubber. Minor, but still there.
Quote:
I have 1" torsion bars and a 1 1/8" front sway bar with KYB shocks.
Aside from the shocks, thats decent.
Quote:
The alignment is set to 1/2 degree NEG camber, 3 degrees POS caster and zero toe. The rear has MP leaf springs, a 3/4" sway bar and KYB shocks. 18x9 front wheels with 275-40-18 Nitto 555 tires, 18x10 rears with 295-45-18 Nitto tires.
Again, decent except for shocks. However, I do see a flex point in there. With 275 front tires, you have massive amounts of rubber on the ground. This much rubber will generate a fair amount of traction, which means it will resist directional changes. You need to increase the leverage on that grip to generate directional change. That increased leverage puts additional loads in to the steering box and idler arm mounts. If you have not gussetted these areas to resist the deflection, they WILL flex and delay steering response.
Quote:
NO frame connectors yet... Thats one of the upcoming changes. I have a Firm Feel stage 3 steering box with Fast ratio idler and pitman arms.
No frame connectors allows the body becomes an active, yet inconsistent, member of the susension. Definetly need to correct this. A solid unibody is the foundation of the car. With the fast ratio arms, there is the additional leverage that is flexing the steering and idler mounts. Also, you never mention if you rebuilt the steering coupler. There are a couple of pieces in there that will wear and require rebuilding after some time.
Quote:
Sometimes the rear end wants to come around whether I'm on the throttle or not. I rarely if ever get any understeer. I have an aluminum headed 440 stroker which may weigh about the same as the iron headed 318 that was there originally. I'm sure that my roll stiffness is greater at the rear than the front and I could remedy this 2 ways: Either increase the front rate with larger torsion bars or a thicker sway bar.... OR reduce the rear with softer springs or a smaller sway bar.
You have this understood and know what you need to do. Firm Feel does offer 1.25 front sway bars, or more easily, you could take a leaf out of the rear spring pack.
Quote:
My question is as stated... What suspension mods or upgrades have you made with your B body? I'm curious as to what others are using and how well it works... Thanks!
My '67 had subframe connectors and a gusseted k-frame, poly bushings everywhere, .96 t-bars, 1.125 front s-bar, MP leaf springs, Mopar Oval Track shocks, Firm feel steering with fast ratio arms, 15x8 wheels with Goodyear Gatorbacks. It was very street friendly and handled very well It would run head to head with my friend's 944 on mountain drives.
My '74 is a bit more aggressive. It has subframe connectors, but they are Xed, Also torque boxes and k frame gussets, Poly bushings through out, 1.22 t-bars with 1.125 fron s-bar, 1.0 rear s-bar, MP oval track zero arch springs, Firm Feel steering with quick ratio arms, single adjustable Varishocks. I'm playing with a tubular upper arm design but haven't decided on it yet. I need to figure out how much camber gain I want and fab up the mounting system for the install. I may just use the stock arms with offset bushings until I get that figure out. For now I'm also sticking with 15" rubber, but it will move up to 17" eventually. Since this one isn't on the street yet, can't comment on it its manners or erformance.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/08/12 05:39 AM
I got an email from a guy that wanted to discuss the effects of leaf spring positions. He wrote that in the case of cars with rear leaf springs, as the car enters a corner and when side to side weight transfer happens, certain conditions lead to an OVERsteering tendency. In the case of a left turn, the left rear tire pulls away from the body as the car leans to the right. This causes the left tire to also move slightly forward as the right moves slightly rearward, which has the effect of rotating the axle sideways causing a rear steer effect.
I have Mopar Performance Super Stock springs with the 2 short springs (About 12") removed. I also have 1" lowering spacer blocks. The front hangers are MP SS brackets and I redrilled a mounting hole higher up to get the spring eye tucked up more. This was in an effort to get the ride height where I liked it. My thoughts were that the more level the springs were, the less tendency to UNDERsteer. I wonder if I went too far though.
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/08/12 07:09 PM
That is a correct statement and by using super stock springs, you are increasing the tendancey for this rear steer action. SS springs have more arch than a stock spring, so while you have corrected ride height, you haven't corrected the spring camber and you are introducing roll steer. The more body roll you have, the more exaggerated this will become. This is the reason why stock and handling leaf springs tend to be as flat as possible. The flatter they are, the less the axle moves during cycling.
I might be worth finding an A body main leaf and swapping over 4-5 leafs from the SS pack to see if you can flatten out the pack and get rid of the lowering block and raise you front eye mounting position.
Perhaps before doing that though, you should install the frame connectors and see what impact that has in the condition. A factor that could be contributing to the oversteer condition is chassis flex. Without subframe connectors, the body is moving. This is creating an inconsistancy is suspension reaction. The gians to be had with the connectors overall is why I would tackle their installation first.
There can actually be a few other minor contributors that you may want to keep in mind as you dial this in. I still think body flex is issue #1. Spring camber would be #2, but also factoring in to this could be front shocks that are too soft, too much rear brake bias, a binding in the rear suspension motion, too much rear shackle angle, or too much anti-squat in the spring pack/front hanger relationship.
Posted By: Grizzly
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/09/12 06:12 PM
Frankenduster:
Your picture is worth a thousand words, thanks for including it.
I think I see something that is contributing to the over-steer: Your front track-width is maxed out to the fender lips (good thing) but the backs look tucked in a bit too much. Could you please confirm and take a track width measure of the front and back (outside to outside of tires) and post it?
Could be a minor adjustment here and then the rest of what you have planned will get you where you want to be.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/10/12 03:42 AM
The rear tires rub slightly on the wheel tubs as it is. I had the axle narrowed to scoot the tires in 3/4" each side. It was cheaper than ordering new rims. I'm planning on modifying the wheel tubs to eliminate the rubbing issue. Its sorta wierd where it rubs. It didn't rub when the rear sat 2 inches higher. It makes contact at the outer wheelhouse! Its odd that Dodge designed the wheel tubs this way. They dont go straight up alongside the quarter panels like a 67-76 Dart sedan did. The Charger wheel tub outer section sits inboard of the quarter panel by a few inches, which keeps me from having the rims sit out any wider. Like I mentioned, I intend to modify the tubs soon. Thanks for the idea though.
Posted By: ahy
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/10/12 04:20 AM
One more thing to add to the list... re-enforced LCA's. This involves welding a stiffening plate to the bottom of the LCA to help resist twisting with a hefty sway bar. Firm Feel and Mancini sell the plates for DIY welding or Firm Feel can weld them up for you.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/10/12 04:39 AM
I forgot to mention that I made plates for the Lower control arms and welded them on when I had the suspension apart to rebuild in 2003.
Thanks again. I appreciate all the suggestions though. Keep them coming....
Posted By: Grizzly
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/10/12 06:02 AM
Quote:
The rear tires rub slightly on the wheel tubs as it is. I had the axle narrowed to scoot the tires in 3/4" each side. It was cheaper than ordering new rims.
Nice. 
But you see where I'm going with this: if you had that extra 1.5" of width at the back, Your Charger would back off a bit in the over-steer department
I'm planning on modifying the wheel tubs to eliminate the rubbing issue. Its sorta wierd where it rubs. It didn't rub when the rear sat 2 inches higher. It makes contact at the outer wheelhouse! Its odd that Dodge designed the wheel tubs this way. They dont go straight up alongside the quarter panels like a 67-76 Dart sedan did. The Charger wheel tub outer section sits inboard of the quarter panel by a few inches, Wow. That's alot. which keeps me from having the rims sit out any wider. Like I mentioned, I intend to modify the tubs soon. Thanks for the idea though.
You bet, I got four more ideas starting from free to expensive:
1. Subtract 2psi from the backs and add 2psi to the fronts. Test drive. Subtract another 2 pounds back and add another 2 to the front. Test drive. Did it make a difference?
2. Scale your car at all four corners and then front axle and rear axle to figure out your weight bias. There are chassis Guys that know what the numbers should look like and can help you further.
3. You're not going to like this one, but, adjust the torsion bars to raise the front a 1/4 inch. Test drive. Raise again another 1/4 inch. Test drive. Any difference? Count the turns so you can put them back to where they were if it has no effect.
4. Thicker rear sway bar. It is supposed to help by keeping the high-side rear tire down which means more traction on the back. That equals less over-steer.
Posted By: jcc
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/10/12 05:30 PM
Quote:
One more thing to add to the list... re-enforced LCA's. This involves welding a stiffening plate to the bottom of the LCA to help resist twisting with a hefty sway bar. Firm Feel and Mancini sell the plates for DIY welding or Firm Feel can weld them up for you.
It would save everybody a lot of hassle and be fair to those on the sidelines if those that profess this time honored mod, if they would just briefly mention there are those that feel this mod has little value unless the car is running 200mph on the high banks of daytona. I know it makes everybody feel warm and fuzzy when they beef up a part that never fails ( unless contact is made with a concrete wall, or other immovable object, and then you just bend something else harder to replace) and if 1/8" plate is good, why not 1/4" plate or just pull out all the stops and use 1/2" 
Does it hurt, no,
Is is it a misleading "improvement", IMO yes
Does it maybe prevent a 200lb/in? sway bar from "slightly" and the emphasis is on slightly, distort/twist the LCA control arm under full roll, and if so this causes what phantom problem?
Did I do the mod to one of my early cars? Yes, and likely never again
Can anyone honestly say here they have made this single change alone and noticed any improvement? I think not.
Same applies to 11/16" TR
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/11/12 12:02 AM
Quote:
4. Thicker rear sway bar. It is supposed to help by keeping the high-side rear tire down which means more traction on the back. That equals less over-steer.
I'm gonna disagree with this one as a potential fix. He already has too much rear rate. Adding more will make it worse. Handling results sometimes are inverse from what you would logically think they need-ie the end of the car with the most wheel rate is the end that will slide first. The rear is sliding first, therefore it has too much rate. To pull it back in, you need to either step down the rear rate or step up the front rate. Understeer would be the opposite.
I still think the first step is sub-frame connectors. There is so much to be gained from them, they should be the first step of any suspension upgrade, IMO.
Quote:
Can anyone honestly say here they have made this single change alone and noticed any improvement? I think not.
Same applies to 11/16" TR
True, but the factory did add a stiffening strap to the lower control arm on AAR/TA offerings, so there is some merit to it. The plate may be overkill, but its simple enough.
I'm with you on the 11/16: TR, however.
Posted By: Viol8r
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/11/12 12:06 AM
Quote:
Quote:
The rear tires rub slightly on the wheel tubs as it is. I had the axle narrowed to scoot the tires in 3/4" each side. It was cheaper than ordering new rims.
Nice. But you see where I'm going with this: if you had that extra 1.5" of width at the back, Your Charger would back off a bit in the over-steer department
I'm planning on modifying the wheel tubs to eliminate the rubbing issue. Its sorta wierd where it rubs. It didn't rub when the rear sat 2 inches higher. It makes contact at the outer wheelhouse! Its odd that Dodge designed the wheel tubs this way. They dont go straight up alongside the quarter panels like a 67-76 Dart sedan did. The Charger wheel tub outer section sits inboard of the quarter panel by a few inches, Wow. That's alot. which keeps me from having the rims sit out any wider. Like I mentioned, I intend to modify the tubs soon. Thanks for the idea though.
You bet, I got four more ideas starting from free to expensive:
1. Subtract 2psi from the backs and add 2psi to the fronts. Test drive. Subtract another 2 pounds back and add another 2 to the front. Test drive. Did it make a difference?
2. Scale your car at all four corners and then front axle and rear axle to figure out your weight bias. There are chassis Guys that know what the numbers should look like and can help you further.
3. You're not going to like this one, but, adjust the torsion bars to raise the front a 1/4 inch. Test drive. Raise again another 1/4 inch. Test drive. Any difference? Count the turns so you can put them back to where they were if it has no effect.
4. Thicker rear sway bar. It is supposed to help by keeping the high-side rear tire down which means more traction on the back. That equals less over-steer.
Come on guys, let's slow down here.
First off #4 is dead wrong. A bigger rear bar will cause oversteer or a loose condition if not properly balanced to the front.
#3 is bit off also. Raising the center of gravity is not necessarily a good idea. The correct thing to do here is add bigger torsion bars or bigger sway to correct an oversteer condition.
Posted By: Viol8r
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/11/12 12:16 AM
Quote:
My 70 Charger has a fully rebuilt suspension with a few upgrades, but over the winter I'm going to make a few changes. As it is now, it responds and handles decent but lacks the "locked on rails" feeling I had with a modified 76 Camaro that I used to own.
The Charger has solid floors and frame rails. I rebuilt the front suspension using poly bushings in the UCAs and strut rods, but used rubber bushings in the LCAs. I have 1" torsion bars and a 1 1/8" front sway bar with KYB shocks. The alignment is set to 1/2 degree NEG camber, 3 degrees POS caster and zero toe. The rear has MP leaf springs, a 3/4" sway bar and KYB shocks. 18x9 front wheels with 275-40-18 Nitto 555 tires, 18x10 rears with 295-45-18 Nitto tires. NO frame connectors yet... Thats one of the upcoming changes. I have a Firm Feel stage 3 steering box with Fast ratio idler and pitman arms. Sometimes the rear end wants to come around whether I'm on the throttle or not. I rarely if ever get any understeer. I have an aluminum headed 440 stroker which may weigh about the same as the iron headed 318 that was there originally. I'm sure that my roll stiffness is greater at the rear than the front and I could remedy this 2 ways: Either increase the front rate with larger torsion bars or a thicker sway bar.... OR reduce the rear with softer springs aor a smaller sway bar.
My question is as stated... What suspension mods or upgrades have you made with your B body? I'm curious as to what others are using and how well it works... Thanks!
To OP, here is what I would do in your situation and it is not much.
-1.12 front bars
-IAS Shocks
-FF Box and fast Ratio
-Subframe Connectors
-FF or Hotchkis Rear Springs
Bottom line is if this car never hits the track, even these parts are way overkill. Unless you have the right combination of brakes, tires, safety, you will never use any of this stuff to its full potential. But it does add a whole different driving experience.
We ran a semi- combination of these parts at the OPTIMA Challenge going 125MPH into the corners and there was still a lot left in the car.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/11/12 02:49 AM
Thanks guys!
I didn't want to be rude to the member that suggested the larger rear sway bar, but I disagreed with the idea as well. I do appreciate all the ideas though. The subframe connectors are on my "to-do" list. The Edelbrock IAS shocks too.
Posted By: Grizzly
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/11/12 03:50 AM
Quote:
Quote:
4. Thicker rear sway bar. It is supposed to help by keeping the high-side rear tire down which means more traction on the back. That equals less over-steer.
I'm gonna disagree with this one as a potential fix. He already has too much rear rate. Adding more will make it worse. Handling results sometimes are inverse from what you would logically think
Ok, no offense taken. It was explained to me a different way.
Thanks.
Posted By: ZIPPY
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/11/12 05:03 PM
Quote:
Either increase the front rate with larger torsion bars or a thicker sway bar.... OR reduce the rear with softer springs aor a smaller sway bar.
I would be tempted to test it with the rear bar removed, to see if the car agrees with our line of thinking there.
You wouldn't be interested in any of my B body suspension mods, as they're geared towards street/strip rather than improved handling.
Posted By: TC@HP2
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/11/12 05:37 PM
Quote:
Ok, no offense taken. It was explained to me a different way.
Thanks.
No problem. I have seen this line of reasoning often, so while incorrect, it isn't that unusual.
Remember that sway bars are simply transverse torsion bars. IE they add spring rate. Too much spring rate can overpower the grip a tire generates. So either add grip to the tire, which tough to do, or soften the dpring rates, which is somewhat easier do.
This is the biggest drawback to owning a handling mopar. There are limited t-bar rates available to fine tune with compared to coil springs which are available with only 50# differences from 200 to 1500 pounds.
Posted By: HUSTLESTUFF
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/11/12 11:33 PM
Here's what I have and it handled great on the track and autocross. I don't know the manufacturer of the rear springs, but they are very stiff and I don't use a sway bar in rear, and didn't feel it needed one on the track. I have the below radiator brace from XV, didn't go further due to paint. Hotchkis UCA's strut rods and steering links. Get the biggest T bars you can get and hotchkis biggest front swaybar. Welded K member, FF stage 3 and fast ratio Pitman and Idler. Hotchkis bilsteins. I would also suggest Nitto NT05's the next time you get tires. I like the way hotchkis does the frame connectors on stock mounted springs. My suggestion is a TVS followed by a big brake kit up front. If you do rear disks and auto cross, you need to learn about pad knock back. A floating caliper is really needed back there. Mike
Posted By: astjp2
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/12/12 01:26 AM
I am putting together a disc brake setup for my 68 charger, I have 2 choices of rotors, 12.44 and 13.59, I am planning on running 17" wheels and dual piston calipers. Do I really need to goto the 13.59? or will the 12.44 be sufficient?
Posted By: jcc
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/12/12 01:34 AM
I'm so glad this is in the HP suspension handling section.
Reg Front brake choice, what's your application, budget, "flash factor" requirements, car weight, tires (they are what really stops a car) and are you sure a 13.59" rotor will fit a 17" wheel? Anyway, having a heavy too large for the application rotor setup, will actually slow a car down, for little extra margin in braking, and IMO, just hang a sign over your head that your are a mopar peacock
Posted By: ThermoQuad
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/12/12 12:19 PM
Do not use the edelbrock shocks. Do not.
Bilsteins or adjustable QA1's-best choice as every car is different.
Here is a well mannered high speed big fat B body with lots of welding and few "mods"
The welded k frame is a key piece, do not pass go, do not buy expensive parts or put in the hotchkiss products unless you weld the k frame and box the steering mount.
Do not "over tire" the car. Most cars with big tires/wheels have wayyy tooo much tire under the car. Think 26-27 inches tall 10 inch wide tire.
That's about it for now
Will some one please tell Moparts Tom we deserve our own handling section.
Posted By: dangina
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/12/12 04:41 PM
Quote:
Do not use the edelbrock shocks. Do not.
Bilsteins or adjustable QA1's-best choice as every car is different.
Here is a well mannered high speed big fat B body with lots of welding and few "mods"
The welded k frame is a key piece, do not pass go, do not buy expensive parts or put in the hotchkiss products unless you weld the k frame and box the steering mount.
Do not "over tire" the car. Most cars with big tires/wheels have wayyy tooo much tire under the car. Think 26-27 inches tall 10 inch wide tire.
That's about it for now
Will some one please tell Moparts Tom we deserve our own handling section.
Posted By: jcc
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/12/12 05:01 PM
Quote:
The welded k frame is a key piece, do not pass go, do not buy expensive parts or put in the hotchkiss products unless you weld the k frame and box the steering mount.
I have no real world on track experience to dispute or confirm the above, but since I have seen many chopped/cutout/sectioned K members on moparts for clearance/oil pan issues, and none of them IMO retained the full strength/rigidity of an OEM K member, dose that mean they all went backwards in performance, accepting most were 1/4 mile apps?
And "over tire" is specific for application, since I can't imagine in dry conditions on track that except for limited hp, any tire would be oversize, maybe not cost effective, but never to big. Brakes are another matter. We'll discuss that on the brake thread in HP suspension section
Posted By: MrAngry
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/12/12 05:37 PM
Tom - the Edelbrock shocks are fine for the street, but I do agree - for the track you need step it up. I've got a set of Ridetech single adjustables that I'm going to install for track duty so I'll post up and see how they feel in a few weeks.
Posted By: MrAngry
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/12/12 06:10 PM
I just posted that we needed a HANDLING section in general, so chime in if you want to see one!
Posted By: ZIPPY
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/12/12 06:12 PM
Quote:
Quote:
The welded k frame is a key piece, do not pass go, do not buy expensive parts or put in the hotchkiss products unless you weld the k frame and box the steering mount.
I have no real world on track experience to dispute or confirm the above, but since I have seen many chopped/cutout/sectioned K members on moparts for clearance/oil pan issues, and none of them IMO retained the full strength/rigidity of an OEM K member, dose that mean they all went backwards in performance, accepting most were 1/4 mile apps?
He means weld the K frame to the frame rails.
He doesn't mean modify the K frame in any way.
Very common/proven effective modification since at least the '70s that I'm aware of...maybe earlier that I have not heard of 
Posted By: Viol8r
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/12/12 06:22 PM
Quote:
Tom - the Edelbrock shocks are fine for the street, but I do agree - for the track you need step it up. I've got a set of Ridetech single adjustables that I'm going to install for track duty so I'll post up and see how they feel in a few weeks.
I can give a quick review of the RideTech's.....Mike was witness to how they worked in our car at the OUSCI. Right out of the box they were a beautiful shock. They are built by FOX in conjuction with Ridetech. Installation was fairly straight forward but they do require some creativity. I know they are working on making it completely compatible. On the track, I do not believe you could ask for anything more out of a semi- budget shock. They have 26 positions to adjust but you can settle into a few area for street and track. The adjustments you feel right away. I do have quite a few bolt on parts on my car to help with body roll, but for overall feel of the track, I give them a 10. I know Mike is going to do a write-up on these in the future, so I am sure he will get into this more.
Can I give some advice on brakes- Be careful with the monster brake kits as a street tire (200 rating and above) can only handle so much force before lock-up. I watched countless cars blow up the tires in the speed stop challenge, because unless you are running slicks, they grip is just not there.
Tom Quad- I am bit concerned about some the advice you are giving... Where do these comments come from? You telling people to stay away from the IAS EDDY monotube shock, but advising them to go to a QA1 twin tube shock instead.....not good advice. The bilsteins and QA1 are not even comparable on B-body applications.
As far as not putting too much tire under the car.....seriously! It's about the balance of the car and what is reasonalbe for what you are using it for. It all starts and stops with the rubber.......
Not trying to pick on you Tom, but Mike and I have not a single MOD to your K-Members and we track them all the time.........with Hotchkis, and other companies, stuff bolted to it.
Posted By: Skeptic
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/12/12 06:26 PM
The modified k's that I've seen here were boxed and re-welded. I doubt there was any loss in ridgity there. The welds from the factory are spotty and pretty poor. Firm Feel offers them upgraded, but anyone with a decent welder could duplcate it.
Posted By: jcc
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/12/12 07:37 PM
Quote:
The modified k's that I've seen here were boxed and re-welded. I doubt there was any loss in ridgity there.
Care to share a pics/links, becuase i have a completely different opinion.
And hey mods, do your job, this should be in "Corners", thanks Mr, angry, et all
Posted By: 70chall440
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/12/12 07:56 PM
Quote:
I just posted that we needed a HANDLING section in general, so chime in if you want to see one!
this aspect of classic Mopar's is the least understood area of all. there is so much mis-information it is crazy. when I was planning my Cuda, I searched all over and talked to many many people about it. The biggest issue is that most people are interested in street manners, however everyone defaults to full on racing advice. That said, there is a lot of correlation between the two, however not all of it transends from one to the other. Next is more personal; it is very hard to articulate what you want as an individual. What is acceptable (or even mandatory) to one person, is compelely unacceptable to another (just look at the opinions on shocks alone). This makes giving or recieving information very difficult.
In my case, I have a Viper and a 10 Challenger to use as "base lines". As you all know, making a 70's era Mopar handle like either of them is an expensive and elusive target. Most people just want thier car to handle, however many people dont remember or even know what these era of cars handled like new and are now comparing them (original or restored) against new cars and cannot help but ask how to make them better.
I went "whole hog" on my Cuda, sub frame connectors, full bracing on the inner fenders, welded K frame, fast ratio steering components, etc. Dont have the car together yet, so I cant tell you how it handles, however based on compnent selection and advice of "experts" (Dick at Firm Feel being one), the car should handle well. However this is intended to be a road race street car, not a new car to be driven 200K miles. I am confident it will be stiff riding (Bilstin up front, 1.14" torsion bars, 1.25" sway bar, strange coil over rear shocks, 4 link, welded LCA, tublar UCA, etc.).
Point here is that we need a handling section to house all of these issues, threads and opinions to allow people to get as much information as possible to make a decision. If possible, it should be divided into street cars, road race, etc. Perhaps something about tires and shocks... I am sure I am asking for too much but I thought I would throw it out there.
Posted By: Molloy
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/12/12 09:11 PM
Weld in subframe connectors (2X3" cross section)
8 point cage (mild steel, TIG welded)
0.95" torsion bars (I think that's the diameter)
SS springs
Aftermarket sway bar (forgot diameter but it's fat)
AR Engineering Viper brake conversion (using 11-3/4" Cordoba discs)
Edit:
This is my 69 Charger (original 318 column shift car)
Posted By: PHJ426
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/13/12 12:35 AM
For now I have in the 72 Runner.
FF stage 2 box.
Rebuilt front end with all poly bushings.
Hemi Torsion bars
SS leafs
KYB's
So I have a lot to change on the car to make it handle better.
Posted By: OLD318
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/13/12 01:59 AM
70 Coronet/ 318
-SuperBee Lower Control arms with sway bar tabs/ boxed, moog bushings
-Stock UCA with MOOG offset bushings +2.5 caster setting
-Firm Feel front sway bar package
-MP .96 Torsion bars
-Steer-N-Gear Stage 1 power steering gearbox
- MOOG suspension parts - rubber bushings
- MP front & rear shocks (old gas style)
-Hemi leaf springs on the back
What I have is a HUGE improvement over stock
but...
IF I had it to do all over again
- skip the stock UCA rebuild and offset bushings
buy aftermarket UCA like - Hotchkiss etc.
- Stage 2 gearbox
- 1" or bigger torsion bars
- Add rear sway bar pkg.
Posted By: NV69B7RR
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/13/12 08:18 PM
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Here you go:
• Firm Feel or Magnum Force Tubular upper control arms
• Ditch the KYB's and put in a set of Edelbrock Performer IAS shocks
• Go to the 1 3/8 front sway bar from Hotchkis and a 7/8 rear bar
• ABSOLUTELY install sub-frame connectors and if you can, get the XV motorsports chassis stiffening kit. It includes inner fender well braces and under hood shock tower brace.
• You've already got the FF stage 3 steering box with Fast ratio idler and pitman arms - good move.
• Minimum of .96 on the torsion bars. This will help you out A LOT.
This is the set up I had on my 69 RR and worked great. On the road manners were great, and when pushed it was predictable. The Edelbrocks ride really well, especially on cracked/ older roads. Anything to lighten the front end up will help too, aluminum water pump housing, heads, etc. I ran the Flaming river manual box on mine.
Posted By: 70 Roadrunner*
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/23/12 04:50 AM
I'm running a stock suspension in my 70 Roadrunner and am looking into getting into the suspension.First things first I need new shocks...Bilsteins are first on my list but I'm open to suggestions.Firm Feel sway bars front and back are second...and third the UAC and LCA from FFI plus a few other front end items.This is for a street application but I sure like to drive this car.Any further info/comments or words of advice any of you guys can add would really be appreciated.So much to learn and so many of you guys with years of experience with the cars...what a great site!
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/24/12 03:33 AM
You get the benefit of joining right about the time that this great new forum was created. For YEARS we have heard about how these great cars can be modified to make turns as well as go straight, NOW we can chare info and all benefit from it.
Posted By: ahy
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 01/24/12 04:37 AM
Quote:
I'm running a stock suspension in my 70 Roadrunner and am looking into getting into the suspension.First things first I need new shocks...Bilsteins are first on my list but I'm open to suggestions.Firm Feel sway bars front and back are second...and third the UAC and LCA from FFI plus a few other front end items.This is for a street application but I sure like to drive this car.Any further info/comments or words of advice any of you guys can add would really be appreciated.So much to learn and so many of you guys with years of experience with the cars...what a great site!
Sounds like a good plan. The benefit of the UCA (upper control arms) is they allow better alignment specs. You should be looking for .5-.75 degree negative camber and 3-5 degrees positive caster with factory toe settings. Its hard to impossible to get there with factory UCA's thus the recommendation to go with the FFI arms.
The only other comment is if you like the result and want to firm things up even more with bigger T bars, I would suggest more frame and K member stiffening. Frame connectors and a fully welded/gusseted K would be on the list. No point in having real stiff springs at the 4 corners of the car and the chassis flexing in the middle. Not necessary for your plan as is.
Posted By: JF_Moparts
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 02/03/12 05:37 AM
My 71 Satellite Sebring:
Most of these mods have been in the car for more than 20 years...
1.03" torsion bars (~205 lbs/inch)
'73 E body spindles w/ '78 11.75" disk brakes
1 1/8" front anti away bar
Polygraphite bushings from PST
Tubular upper control arms
Fast ratio pitman/idler arms
Stage II firm feel box
C body tie rod ends
17x9s with 255/45 all around
Hemi rear leafs
Weld-in frame connectors
Jim
Posted By: redmist
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 02/05/12 10:36 PM
Couple of questions for my setup.
First off, my car has the full PST front end bushing kit installed. 1&1/8" Front bar, No bar on rear. Stock leafs.
285-40-17 rear on 10" rim
235-45-17 front on 8" rim
My questions are, would you guys recommend the full weld in sub frame connectors over the ones that just join the rails together? I am also thinking about cutting my K member so the oil pan could be dropped. And then fabricating a bolt in joining section to replace what I cut out. That way I could get the pan off the engine if need be. I could then weld the K member to the rails.
Posted By: cudazappa
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 02/06/12 12:02 AM
Its been discussed before and the consensus (last I checked) was that the separate tube (not the floor contoured connectors) were the strongest option.
Can't comment on the weld the k-frame idea though. In theory it should work. But I've also changed small block pans with then engine and K in the car just by lifting the engine off the mounts a bit. Not sure if the Big Block pan has any other caveats to it...
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: What suspension mods are in YOUR B body? - 02/06/12 03:44 AM
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I am also thinking about cutting my K member so the oil pan could be dropped. And then fabricating a bolt in joining section to replace what I cut out. That way I could get the pan off the engine if need be. I could then weld the K member to the rails.
My thoughts are the following: The K member is subjected to great amounts of torsional stress. The stronger the K member is, the more it resists flexing. Anything that is bolted in place is inferior to a welded member, all else being equal.