Moparts
Sequence Patterns and Codes
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 01:48 AM
Who's got original cars willing to offer up vins, line sequences, and Engine Assembly Dates (EAD)?
What we're trying to uncover is a sequence pattern underlying all codes which will influence and/or confirm all dates, on all parts, on all A12 cars.
Whether you have an original car, or are looking to replicate originality, understanding the vin and line sequence code - in relation to the EAD - will help us determine dating on all A12s.
If we know how various EADs correlate with vins and line sequence numbers on original cars, we can fill in the gaps in approximate terms with non original car vins and line sequence numbers.
So we'll be focusing on the entire A12 group through comparing and correlating original car info.
That means taking the earliest and latest known original car vin/line sequence/EAD combinations, then fitting in between that all other known original combinations (on the time line).
Then studying the numbers to see where other vin/sequence combinations might go on non original motor cars. Through that, all EADs should be clearer. What should develope is a general picture of when all cars (with original and non original motors) were built.
Now before we get too far ahead Dave offers some very good info. It seems the runners are relatively organized from what he can gather as far as true sequential patterning. The bees are a little different and will need more info to qualify sequential order.
He is also considering requesting this info during Registry application. That way the info would be on record and available always. Another idea would be to get Mr. Govier involved for some data input and research guidance.
Back to date codes...
If we look at this in reverse order, starting with say an original A12 distributor (in the Berlisk article on the plating thread) we see that the date is 189 which is the 18th week of 69- or mid May.
Moving forward in the car assembly sequence, and forward in real time, the date code we come to next is the engine assembly date on the boss pad. This same original A12 motor in the article has an engine assembly date of June 18, 69.
So the distributor was dated (made at Prestolite) 4 weeks before the engine was assembled. This is one example of what the time lag is on this particular part on an original motor. (which can be repeated on all parts, to some degree of reliability, by using the Berlisk article or info from other original A12 cars).
The point is, all 'bolt on part' date codes are dictated by the EAD, which is as explained better understood through the vin, line sequence, and EAD comparative research noted above.
I know, I know, this is just another blanket statement which never seems to hold up in all cases. But we're hoping to gain some sort of broad knowledge where dates should be.
Wouldn't it be nice if you knew what month, or even day in 69 your brand new car left Lynch Road? Solving the above would go a long way towards gaining that understanding.
As I said, this is not a science, it's based on averages. I'm no expert, there might be a much more accurrate, easier way. If so, I'm all ears. Please pipe up and offer your ideas if interested in teaching/learning more about our car's birth dates. This forum is a powerful information medium. Let's use it to our advantage through sharing.
So, who's got an original car willing to offer up their vin, line sequence, and Engine Assembly Date (EAD)?
Best regards,
Coop
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 02:19 AM
Here is all the info on my #s matching motor and I have the dealer invoice that is dated 4-29-69 so I think that puts the car at Ground Zero for the actual date of being built on approximately 4-26
WM23M9A263554
Order # 924487
4/26
Motor
cast 2/19/69
assembled 3/19/69, HP only No HP2
Carbs
front- 101 day 69, April 11
center-93 day 69, April 3
rear-93 day 69, April 3
Distributor
7th week 69, late Feb 69
My guess of the engine assembly date is for only the reciprocating assembly, I believe carb and manifold were added after engine assembly date, most probably due to Edelbrocks slow delivery of the manifolds
Dave
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 03:20 AM
Quote:
Distributor
7th week 69, late Feb 69
Dave
dave , whats the actual date code on the tag ?
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 05:23 AM
The actual date on distrib is 7(space)9, which I understand is 7th week of 69, located lower right corner of tag
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 06:09 AM
Quote:
The actual date on distrib is 7(space)9, which I understand is 7th week of 69, located lower right corner of tag
can you post a pic of it , the one i have is 69 , but the numbers are stamped close to each other ???
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 05:33 PM
John, I purchased mine new. I have everything except for the block. I will get dist.#, carb.#'s, and what ever else you need from the fender tag, broadcast sheet, etc. Let me know. PJ
Posted By: Seth_Jones
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 05:48 PM
My dist has 139 date code,engine assembled 5-20,cast 5-6-69.I'll check the carb dates tonite.Radiator date code 1229. Trans is stamped 290.Wiper motor 1189.center carb 1019.end carbs both 1219.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 06:04 PM
Quote:
My dist has 139 date code,engine assembled 5-20,cast 5-6-69.I'll check the carb dates tonite.
is the 139 run together or is there a space between the 13 and 9 ???
i'm wondering if this dist has a doctored tag ???
Posted By: Seth_Jones
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 06:21 PM
Yes there is a slight space between the 13 and the 9.Also,upon closer inspection, the three could be an eight that wasn't struck properly.
Posted By: beepbeep
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 06:22 PM
Quote:
i'm wondering if this dist has a doctored tag ???
Am I reading this right: JohnRR worried about at number on a tag??? 
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 06:58 PM
Hey Coop you know I have helped you with a lot of information in the past so don't take what I am about to say as a put down. Galen has been gather this type of information for years and years. He has it all in his computor. Several years back a guy whos A12 I was painting did not have a fender tag. At best Galen could only guess at a sequence number. There are so many variables in what you are trying to do I really wish you luck.
I have seen cars with lower VIN sequences and earlier build date with original parts that were date coded later than cars with higher VIN sequence and the later build date. With no corolation between order numbers. I eagerly await the results of what you are trying to accomplish. If you get it all figured out you can start your own business and not answer questions with out some green backs!!! You can even sign some autographs.
Again no one get bent out of shape, I just know how messed up these cars are. So far no one not even Galen has been able to put it all together.
I will check all of my past records and see if I can add anything to this.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 07:34 PM
Quote:
Quote:
i'm wondering if this dist has a doctored tag ???
Am I reading this right: JohnRR worried about at number on a tag???
yep , theres a few people that will pay dearly for the correct date code parts , triple what i would normally ask :laugh :
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 09:32 PM
John, Mike
John,
Attached is the dist tag from the Berlisk article. It appears the numbers 189 are without spaces. I believe Bill Overcash would have some good insight on this as he does rebuild them.
Mike,
Thanks for getting back on this. I always welcome your input. Hey, I'd much rather hear the truth, which will ultimately prevail anyway, than nice sounding BS.
I called Diane at Govier's today about this. She suggested we gather as much info as possible then send it in. They will look it over and we can then evaluate and discuss our options.
The Registry currently lists 188 cars. Of those perhaps Dave can tell us how many are original motor. Of those, we'll need to get as many as possible to conrtibute because there's sure to be some overlap in cars (between his data and ours) rendering our info old. Perhaps there is a chance that we can supply enough new data to arrive at some new conclusions. You never know.
I do know that to have any hope of pulling this off we will need to get every last 'original motor car' owner involved. That means all of those here that list their cars as 'original block' on the Registry, as well as all others.
Best regards,
Coop
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 11:03 PM
As John RR and I have discussed in the past, We beleive that the A12 motors are dated all over the map because of so many "original" motors are restamps (due to the increasing value, ie GREED, of theses cars) and that I would take it with a grain of salt when someone says they have the original motor if that owner is not the original owner or has not had the car a very long time, I will post my block vin and dist tag here as soon as I can figure out how how to take a pic without the flash "washing out" the stampings
I think that the info highway for Galen is a oneway road, any info given to him is not going to be returned in kind, its a business to him and he is not going to open up his records to us for free, what are his long term intentions? If some untimely twist of fate were to befall him, god forbid, does he have a plan to put the info he has collected into the public domain or does it just disappear again, maybe forever
Posted By: dannysbee
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/09/04 11:42 PM
What about original tranmission cars my car has the original transmisson and there is a I believe it is a build date on it. Danny Bell
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/10/04 01:21 AM
AZ A12 BEE, dannysbee
AZ,
Looking forward to your pics.
You are right about both subjects, but some things are better left unsaid, at least for the time being. So let's concentrate on gathering info, then we'll see how much leverage we have before submitting anything to GG. Thanks.
***
dannysbee,
Excellent point! Let's include that qualification as worthy of info submission... so please post your info. (vin, line sequence, EAD). Thanks.
Best regards,
Coop
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/10/04 01:27 AM
danny,
I was rushing.
Obviously your EAD is unimportant. You will have to post your trans numbers instead. Gotta run.
Thanks.
Best regards,
Coop
Posted By: dstryr
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/11/04 11:03 PM
Hi, Coop,
Here is my info for your research
Fender Tag:
19157 291805 9A272929
925 999 603
26 A12
T7 T7 H2X X9
RM23 E63 D21 426 948809
Line Seq. # 291805
VON 948809
Engine Casting Date 05-15-69
E440
6 4 HP2
=>June 4 Assembly Date
Carbs:
Center Date 0909
List 4391
Rear Date 1219
List 4394
Front Date 1139
List 4393
Distributor: p/n 982 Date 329
It is the distributor listed for an auto car, also has a very late date...32nd week of 69. Could have been changed out of course.
Trans:
9A272929
PP8332856 0453
My car does not have a build sheet unless it is in the headliner or under the carpet. I won't know until I restore it and that won't happen real soon...
Coop,
What else would you like to see?
Regards,
Frank
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/12/04 02:54 AM
THANKS FRANK
It's very early in feedback, and I'm a little surprised in the lack of participation thus far.
Your help is greatly appreciated in both the number search AND 2005 reunion.
Hopefully this will encourage others to take the time, look at their cars, and post these important numbers. How long can that take? Maybe 15-20 minutes?
So thanks Frank, it's obvious you are confident in the integrity of your 'numbers matching' car.
C'mon guys, those of you who call your cars 'numbers matching' need to step up.
It's not like this thread is going to disappear. Our moderator has seen fit to permanently post this at the top of the page (thanks John), so the call will continue to go out.
Here's your chance to work without 'the experts', you know, the ones so many here hold with such high disdain.
Here's your chance to work as a group to possibly discover more about these cars than 'the experts' themselves might know.
Who knows what we might stumble onto? The more info that comes in, the better the chance we actually find a pattern worth following. I know this, we won't stumble onto anything if more owners don't come forward.
No offense out there. Just saying if you have a numbers matching car, put up- or shut up. If I'm missing something, something which would explain the reluctance to participate, please let me know.
If there is something that would jeopardize the value of a true numbers matching car, through the participation in this research- which I haven't thought of, please let me know.
Best regards,
Coop
***
Green Bay 17
IGGLES 20
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/12/04 06:53 PM
Ok, this week I'll go out and look at numbers on my car. I need to know where to look for numbers on parts like the wiper motor, radiator, rear, K-frame, and anything else you might want to match up for dates. I have my fendertag here, do you want to look at it? I hate to post my numbers being that someone may copy and repo a tag just like mine. I'll also look at my numbers matching 4spd trans. I don't have the numbers motor though but do have a 69 hp2 dated 7-24. The vin number reads W223L9A------ for a coronet R/T. Notice that there is a (2) in place of the (S). Its original stamping.
Posted By: sixbbl69
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/12/04 10:08 PM
wiper motor # is on motor itself. k- frame i have never seen a number on one. but there may be a number somewhere.the k-member for 69 1/2 cars are unigue and just looking at it you can tell. the radiator mounting brackets are date coded and all the 054 69 1/2 cars that i have seen have the small raised numbers. both March and April build dates .earlier hemi 054 radiators had the large numbers. dana 60 has numbers on rt axle tube. again there is another way to spot a 69 from 66- 68 dana just by looking at it? trans is easy enough to find numbers. all glass is date coded i have April car and my glass is dated for April. the road runner horn is date coded, the exhaust manifold is date coded as you already know . my April car has early May horn and exhaust man. date codes. . as well as horn relay and starter relay. my carbs are april 27 and May 2nd and 3rd. headlights are feb 69. ballast resistor also date coded. pvc valve has 69 part number. there are many more things that i can't remember now to look for. my car had very few paint markings on bottom.
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/13/04 12:23 AM
Steve, sixbbl69
Steve, thanks for your help.
All I'm asking 'original engine' owners to post is:
vin number
line sequence number
Engine Assembly Date (EAD) - if orginal motor -
or in your case (and dannys) trans date code - if original
***
The vin is on your fender tag as is the line sequence.
Vin starts with the first 4 digits on the bottom left line (example: WM23) and ends with the last 8 digits on the top right line (example: 9A290930). Insert the 'M' between the two groups for the full 13 digit vin.
The line sequence is also on the top line of the fender tag. It's the middle 6 digit number (example: 293862) just after the first 5 digits.
The trans date is on a machined pad on the right forward side of the transmission. There are 4 numbers which are part of the 10,000 day calendar (see attached).
***
sixbbl69,
Thanks for the input and help....and here I thought you disliked date coding clarification!
No problem! I'm impressed and appreciate your opinion regardless of which side of the fence we find ourselves. Whether we agree or disagree is irrelavent. What's important is that in the process of conversing, we both learn.
Please continue to offer up help and info on date coding. It helps prevent that guy who bought a wrecked- motorless car, a few years, ago-- from turning it into a 40K 'numbers matching' fraud.
Information is valuable. Thanks for your help.
BTW- It sounds like from your posts that you had an A12 car at one time but now no longer have it? Or do you have one now? I can't tell. Sometimes I misread the thoughts and intentions of posters.
Best regards,
Coop
Posted By: dstryr
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/13/04 03:34 AM
Coop,
What is the P/N sequence on the trans that would include the prod. date? If it is part of the PP8332856 number, then the last 4 digits 2856 would refer to May 23. What would 0453 refer to?
Thanks,
Frank
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/13/04 03:39 AM
I think the 0453 means the 453rd trans assembled that day
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/13/04 07:39 AM
Quote:
the k-member for 69 1/2 cars are unigue and just looking at it you can tell.
does this include 69.5 383 , and hemi bees ? along with 69.5 318 coronet 4 doors ???
Posted By: sixbbl69
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/13/04 02:13 PM
JOHN, talking about A12 cars so i guess you can cross off Hemi and slant six cars .then maybe you can check and see if your 4-door b-body has a sway bar and if it has one, use it.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/13/04 04:43 PM
Quote:
JOHN, talking about A12 cars so i guess you can cross off Hemi and slant six cars .then maybe you can check and see if your 4-door b-body has a sway bar and if it has one, use it.
but the k frame YOU keep calling a 69.5 A12 kframe was also installed in 383 cars and 318 cars .
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/16/04 03:49 AM
John, here is a pic of the distrib tag
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/16/04 03:52 AM
And a pic of block vin
sorry about poor quality, Im not much of a photographer
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/16/04 03:54 AM
And the dealer invoice
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/16/04 11:41 PM
Quote:
sorry about poor quality, Im not much of a photographer
you said that , not me 
...
Posted By: 69_SIX_PACK
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 02/10/04 08:49 PM
Here's some VIN's and scheduled build date for some non A12's made at Lynch Rd:
RH 319 9A243347 E63
RM 315 9A243369 E63
RM 324 9A246221 E63
RH 327 9A248906 E44
RM 402 9A252551 E74
WM 408 9A255429 E63
RM 410 9A257478 E63
WM 501 9A265557 E74
RM 505 9A266270 E63
RM 619 9A300194 E63
RP 618 9A300367 E63
RS 709 9A309995 E86
RM 709 9A310417 E63
RM 709 9A310859 E63
Dave
Posted By: 1fastsixpack
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 03/11/04 08:28 PM
VIN 303025 Block cast date 5-22-69 FRONT PAD E-440, 6-13,HP2 and than there is an a sideways
Posted By: 1fastsixpack
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 03/17/04 10:51 PM
Fender tag info K frame dated 1089 2 (70 style bottom) Carbs outboard 0879 list4394 center 1019 list 4392 outboard 1259 list4393-1
Posted By: 1fastsixpack
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 03/18/04 07:10 PM
Broadcast sheet car #174 in the regestry My wiper motor and alt are date code correct now but are not original to this car nor is the trans Radiator dated 0959
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/06/04 04:41 AM
Quick question, and excuse the ignorance. For the A12 Bees and Runners the last 6 are the sequence #'s. Would they ever be the same on any 2 A12 cars? For instance, could a WM21,WM23,RM21,or RM23 have the same last 6 in the VIN? Do the sequence #'s go Bird, Bee, Bird, Bee, or no logical order? If this belongs on a seperate post let me know.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/08/04 05:24 AM
Quote:
Quick question, and excuse the ignorance. For the A12 Bees and Runners the last 6 are the sequence #'s. Would they ever be the same on any 2 A12 cars? For instance, could a WM21,WM23,RM21,or RM23 have the same last 6 in the VIN? Do the sequence #'s go Bird, Bee, Bird, Bee, or no logical order? If this belongs on a seperate post let me know.
an rm21 and rm23 coming out of the same plant would not have the same last 6 digits in the same model year , same goes for a wm21 and wm23 .
now how things are run in the same plant vs different makes ??? would a coronet and a satellite actually be built on the same production line ??? if so then rm21/23.wm21/23 would never have the same last 6 , if not built on the same line ??? i'd only be speculating .
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/09/04 01:53 AM
would a coronet and a satellite actually be built on the same production line ??? if so then rm21/23.wm21/23 would never have the same last 6 , if not built on the same line ??? i'd only be speculating .
The answer is yes, it was a "B" body line and a Satellite and Coronet would have been built on the same line.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/09/04 02:05 PM
Quote:
Quote:
would a coronet and a satellite actually be built on the same production line ??? if so then rm21/23.wm21/23 would never have the same last 6 , if not built on the same line ??? i'd only be speculating .
The answer is yes, it was a "B" body line and a Satellite and Coronet would have been built on the same line.
that must have made things slightly confusing .
i wonder if there was a sat or coronet that made it to the end of the line with the wrong inteiror ie: coronet with a satellite seats ..
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/09/04 05:33 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
would a coronet and a satellite actually be built on the same production line ??? if so then rm21/23.wm21/23 would never have the same last 6 , if not built on the same line ??? i'd only be speculating .
The answer is yes, it was a "B" body line and a Satellite and Coronet would have been built on the same line.
that must have made things slightly confusing .
i wonder if there was a sat or coronet that made it to the end of the line with the wrong inteiror ie: coronet with a satellite seats ..
I don't know about that but I can tell you that in the 70s the Dodge dealership that I worked at received a Dart that had a Dart emblem on one side of the car and a Scamp emblem on the other side. It was at the end of the model year and I would imagine that the Dart emblem bin on one side of the line was empty and they don't stop the line for minor problems like that. They just expect that the dealer will catch it, correct it and warranty claim it as we did. Those kinds of things happened on an occasional basis.
Posted By: 69_SIX_PACK
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/10/04 12:45 AM
Quote:
Quick question, and excuse the ignorance. For the A12 Bees and Runners the last 6 are the sequence #'s. Would they ever be the same on any 2 A12 cars? For instance, could a WM21,WM23,RM21,or RM23 have the same last 6 in the VIN? Do the sequence #'s go Bird, Bee, Bird, Bee, or no logical order? If this belongs on a seperate post let me know.
No two cars would have the same sequence number at the same plant. So to answer your question no two A12's would have the same number. No WM23M9A270681 AND WM21M9A270681 OR RM23M9A270681 OR RM21M9A270681.
What you could have is the same number frrom different assembly plants but as you know all A12 were built at Lynch Rd. So you could have RM21NOA136146 AND RM21NOG136146.
Dave
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/17/04 10:23 AM
Found a Runner from Lynch Rd that is a 383 car and has a last 6 close to an A12 in the registry. The one is the registry is 267291 and the one I know of is only 64 cars off. They are both the same body style as well. Just thought it would help some.
Posted By: Nekid_A12
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/17/04 03:40 PM
Quote:
Found a Runner from Lynch Rd that is a 383 car and has a last 6 close to an A12 in the registry. The one is the registry is 267291 and the one I know of is only 64 cars off. They are both the same body style as well. Just thought it would help some.
They might well have been built on the same day. So the question is, what is the scheduled build date of the car you looked at.
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/17/04 11:16 PM
Hopefully the fender tag is still there when I look at it Tuesday.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/18/04 09:25 AM
Would it be possible to find an copy of the archived Federal regulations regarding V.I.N.numbers and then determine if the same last 6 didgits could be applied to a car built at a different plant.Just wondering
Posted By: beepbeep
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/18/04 03:29 PM
The VIN was a 13 digit code. Like 69_SIX_PACK stated you could have a RM21 NOG 123456 car and also a RM21 NOE 123456 car built, while the last six digits are the same the entire VIN is different.
The newer VIN law states that a VIN (now 15 digits) if I remember correctly can not be duplicated for 20 years.
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/21/04 04:02 PM
Ok here is some info for late built A12's. I looked at a Runner from Lynch Rd. yesterday and here is what it had on the tag:
last 6-267355
scheduled build date-506
order number-145026
Hope this helps some.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/21/04 06:47 PM
Quote:
Ok here is some info for late built A12's. I looked at a Runner from Lynch Rd. yesterday and here is what it had on the tag:
last 6-267355
scheduled build date-506
order number-145026
Hope this helps some.
I have some questions about this tag.
Was it coded Y39?
What was the color of the exterior?
Did the owner have the broadcast sheet for the car?
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/21/04 11:45 PM
Let me clear it up, this is an H code 383 car. just seeing where in the mix it falls as far as when A12's were ran. Later built A12's could have been built around 5/06. Should have cleared up the A12 vs. non A12, but I thought I did a few posts ago. Sorry for the confusion.
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/22/04 02:06 AM
Ahooah,
Thanks for the input and thanks for getting this thread back on track. All info helps in one way or another.
I think your broader point is a good one....that being the question: Can we use other Lynch road cars as A12 production info gap fillers?
I am disapointed that so few 'numbers matching' A12 cars have come forward with info thus far. I think we could really break some new ground here if only more data was available.
Those who have come forward have supplied good info-- which might have only been previously assumed or known to a select few in this hobby.
That info being real production dates (EADs) and corelating major engine component dates-- which could indicate the legitimacy of cars, and their major components when they come up for sale.
In other words, those who understand the basic pattern of the 'sequence/cast/EAD' have an advantage in detecting cars that follow the known pattern and those that don't.
Expansion on that theme will always be open to additional info...which simply means adding new original cast dates, EADs, and sequence numbers. Your point being if we can use non A12 cars to whittle the gaps in that expanse down, why not?
If this is a viable option we would need to find these cars in 'original condition' (namely an original motor). Then simply list that motor's EAD, cast and the VIN sequence number.
From there we compare with known A12 EAD, cast and sequence numbers to see if they all jive. If after several comparisons they do, we might want to consider them as useful in building a better A12 production timeline. The end game for this being the ability to take an A12 sequence number and have some fairly accurate idea of when the car's motor was assembled and where the parts for that motor should be dated.
As always, this is open to constructive critism. Anything that helps build a better understanding is always welcome (go ahead fellas--fire away!).
Thanks again ahooah!
Best regards,
Coop
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/25/04 12:14 AM
There's a Bee on E-Bay with VIN WM23H9A295300. Which the VIN falls in between two Bees on the registry with 4/26 build dates if someone is interested in e-mailing the seller and seeing when that car was built. Just a thought. Ok, got an e-mail back from the guy and it was built on 6/12/69. This might help some figure out when the cars were built.
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/27/04 02:56 AM
ahooah,
Thanks again for the info.
I also contacted the seller who just got back with the cast date on the block (5*26*69)
just for fun...
Frank (dstryr) has a serial number of 9A272929
a cast date of 5*15*69
a EAD of 6/4/69
The 383 bee has a serial number of 9A295300
a cast date of 5*26*69
a EAD of 6/12/69
Bill (1fastsixpack) has a serial number of 9A303025
a cast date of 5*22*69
a EAD of 6/13/69
The gaps between Frank (dstryr) and the 383 bee serial number is 22371, the cast gap is 11 days, and the EAD gap is 8 days.
Now compare the 383 bee to the later serial number of Bill's car (1fastsixpack)
The gap between the serial number is 7725 which is about 1/3 the gap found between Franks car (22371).
The gap in the cast dates is 4 days which is again around 1/3 the gap found between Franks car (11 days).
The gap in the EAD is only 1 day which is about 1/8 the gap found between Franks car.
Nothing earth shattering, just more info to consider.
Best regards,
Coop
Posted By: dannysbee
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/28/04 01:17 PM
Dannysbee
290229 vin
carbs 1219 April 30
trans assembly 2854 May 21
door panel May 5
That is all my car has to offer hope it helps.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/29/04 03:04 AM
I own a 1970 440 Six Pack Numbers Matching
Super Bee. I do not know when the engine was put into the car.
Car Built 10-69
Block Forged 7-24-69
Engine Built 10-8-69
Good Luck!
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/30/04 03:41 AM
RM21H9A254049 is on ebay and has a build date of 4/04. This VIN falls between 2 3/29 Runners. Hope this helps.
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 05/12/04 03:41 AM
69 GTX on ebay with VIN RS23L9A280600 which is between two 4/26 Runners and the GTX build date of 5/26 and Sequence #040147
here's the link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2478466258&category=6412
good luck and will post more as i find them
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 06/16/04 10:14 PM
There is a '69 Runner on E-bay right now (6-16-04) with Vin#RM21H9A254049, build date of 4/04, and sequence #B28914. The VIN falls between 2 Runners on the registry (car #106 and #172)with the following info: Car #106 VIN#RM21M9A246436, build date of 3/29, and sequence #949304. Car #172 VIN#RM21M9A2577095, build date of 3/29, and sequence #949085. I don't know how long the auction is up for, but here is the link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2482194380&category=43921&sspagename=WDVWAnd here is a pic of the fendertag in case the auction is gone.
Posted By: A12
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 06/18/04 08:53 AM
In the left upper corner there are five (5) numbers. The "Gate" number (First two digits) and the "Base" number (last three digits) what do these numbers mean?
All of the Lynch Road tags have a "1" for the third digit or the first number of the "Base" number. All of the Base numbers are either: 10X, 11X, 12X, 13X, 14X and 15X. I have not seen, to this point, any higher numbers than 15X (no 16X, etc.,). The majority of the A12 tags that I have see have either 11X or 15X for the "Base" number.
There are three A12 tags shown in attachments (by me) in this thread
HERE that have a sideways "X" inspectors mark that the "Base" number is 15X. The V.I.N's and lower right sequence numbers, of these three tags, are not close at all nor are the numbers to the right of the gate and base numbers, the they have the same inspectors "X" on them. He apparently worked quite a bit in '69
.
I don't know if this observation has ANY value at all, I just thought I'd throw it in the pot.
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 06/20/04 04:49 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2482366770&category=43921
1969 hemi Runner. Here is a pic of the fendertag. Built on 4/29 and falls between #14 and #179 on the registry, which are both RM21's with 4/26 build dates.
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 06/22/04 03:40 PM
another lynch rd tag for a bee with date of 6/17
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 07/02/04 04:02 PM
coop;
Sorry to say I don't wish to disply my vin number or fender tag(in a open forum) If the information is that important to your quest I would send it to you in a PM. I know you would only use it for the right perpose. I will give you most of the vin (WM23M9A2688XX) if this is anything more than just another one in sequence I could give you more info as I said. Good luck with your quest. Ed
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 07/04/04 12:10 PM
Here's a trans case found in Texas with a VIN of 9A297974. Dated '2861' which is May 28 1969. (see attached)
Looks like a factory paint stamp of '605' on the case.
Posted By: dannysbee
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 07/04/04 03:09 PM
Coop
Mine is 290229 trans 2854 May 21,1969.
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 07/05/04 05:59 PM
There's one on e-bay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2483798012&category=43921
19113 307134 9A305078
925 594 603
26
1X 7X N96
F5 F5 H2G F8 V21
RM23 E63 D21 701 188986
That's the tag info posted. It falls in between some WM23 cars on the registry. No pic of tag, so there's another one to help when the cars were built.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 08/26/04 10:16 PM
Hi does any know excactly how many A12 Road Runners were built in 69 ?
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 08/26/04 10:20 PM
check this page near the bottom:
http://www.homestead.com/sixpacksixbbl/Regards,
Coop
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 10/04/04 12:05 AM
First time here,
RM23M9A282561
01446 282058 9A282561
+ 925 999 603
26 A12
K2 K2 M6X X9
E63 D21 RM23 426 949619
It's under restoration, coming along real nice.
Posted By: Dave Watt
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 10/24/04 03:46 AM
Here are the date codes and other numbers off of my Road Runner. It is in a Microsoft Word document.
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 11/11/04 05:34 PM
Here's a car off ebay. It's VIN is RM23H9A297104 and built on 616. It's VIN is after #26 on the registry of WM23MA297967 with build date of 426. Hope that will help some.
Posted By: Nekid_A12
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 11/12/04 02:33 PM
Quote:
Here's a car off ebay. It's VIN is RM23H9A297104 and built on 616. It's VIN is after #26 on the registry of WM23MA297967 with build date of 426. Hope that will help some.
Uuumm...297104 is BEFORE 297967, not after. And I'm not sure it means anything since one is an "RM" and the other is a "WM"
Thoughts??
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 11/12/04 04:25 PM
Late night. You're right, the one on bay is earlier than the one on the registry. I thought the sequence # was for that plant, so a WM could be let's say #123456 and a RM could be #123457 and don't forget the GTX, Belvedere, and Coronets built at Lynch Rd. Just shows that all A12's were not built on just 329 and 426.
Posted By: A12
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 11/12/04 04:42 PM
Was the last date of production in June or July for a model year.
(I know I should go back and read again but I'm feeling pretty lazy today
)
Posted By: dstryr
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 11/12/04 05:10 PM
Quote:
First time here,
RM23M9A282561
01446 282058 9A282561
+ 925 999 603
26 A12
K2 K2 M6X X9
E63 D21 RM23 426 949619
It's under restoration, coming along real nice.
Tailbutcher,
Welcome to the Forum 
Have you checked out plans for the A12 Reunion next July?? Hope to see you there even if your RR is not done.
One requirement is PHOTOS! 
Post what you can for us.
Frank
Posted By: Nekid_A12
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 11/12/04 07:02 PM
Quote:
Late night. You're right, the one on bay is earlier than the one on the registry. I thought the sequence # was for that plant, so a WM could be let's say #123456 and a RM could be #123457 and don't forget the GTX, Belvedere, and Coronets built at Lynch Rd. Just shows that all A12's were not built on just 329 and 426.
Understood And a good thought. I'd like to see some other RM21X9A SPD's myself to help narrow down the date of my car. As it stands, I believe it was probably the second week of May 69. But I'm not totally sure.
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 11/12/04 07:12 PM
I looked at a Runner from Lynch Rd. a while back and here is what it had on the tag:
last 6-267355
scheduled build date-506
order number-145026
Hope this helps some. It was a 383 car.
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/13/04 03:56 PM
Found 2 Lynch Rd Runners on Ebay.
Link to first one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4511261434&category=43921Title shows last 6 of 256589 and registration shows 216589. No fender tag shown. Supposedly owned by Jesse James, maybe someone can call on the build date?
Link to second one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4511439829&category=43921RM21H9A254049
01162 254955 9A254049
925 595 603 N96(Air Grabber Hood)
B5 B5(Blue Fire Metalic) H2X( Black interior) X9(Black velvet accent colours)
RM21(2 dr Coupe) E63(383/4bbl/335hp) D21(Heavy Duty 4 speed)
404(April/ 04/ 69) B 28914(Production Sequence)
Hope that helps some of the build date mysteries.
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/24/04 03:55 AM
Here is a car that was just on Ebay, good to help date 3/29 cars
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/24/04 05:39 PM
And here is one for the 4/26 cars, my car 263554 was actually built on 4/29 using the dealer invoice date and this car is about 125 ahead of my car and is 4/28
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/01/05 01:50 AM
They dont get much later than this
Posted By: 69_SIX_PACK
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/16/05 02:09 AM
I was looking at a A12 Bee today.
WM23M9A306xxx
Matching numbers engine cast 5/23, engine assembled 6/18.
Dave
Posted By: Dave Watt
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 02/15/05 12:10 AM
I thought that the first 100 Road Runners had Order numbers that followed the VIN numbers. But if you look at car #66 VIN #RM21M9A246429 is three behind car #156 VIN #RM23M9A246426, but three ahead 949055 VS. 949058 on the Order #. Just a random observation with no real value.
Posted By: beepsalot
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 02/23/05 06:37 PM
the VON, has nothing to do with the order that the cars came out, they were generated by the chryco computer, dealing more with dealer number...I.E. - i know of 2 71 cuda 340/3 spd/shaker cars that have sequential order numbers, but the V.I.N.'s and assembly dates are 6 weeks apart, but they went to the same dealership. hope that throws a new light on the vehicle order number situation....
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 03/10/05 12:02 AM
Sequence# B 301572 Order# 426 922482 Sequential number(VIN) WM21M9A303022.Sold car sales bank 4Special Order 9. Q5 AUTOMATIC 6 PAK under Remarks at bottom of sheet. Hope this helps. PJ
Posted By: Dave Watt
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 05/04/05 07:26 PM
Are all the attachments gone, or is my computer messed up?
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 05/04/05 07:39 PM
They're gone.
Posted By: Dave Watt
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 05/05/05 04:24 AM
This is a repost since all the old attachments are gone.
Plymouth Road Runner
RM21M9A246386
949003 Order Number
3-29-69 Scheduled Build Date
Engine casting # 2536430-5
(Cast date) 2 19 69
E440
(EAD) 3 19 HP T W
(According to Galen G., TW stands for water test)
Transmission
Exhaust Manifolds
2806900 (right)(No Date)
2843992 (left) (Date) 1 8 69
Carburators
Front (List)4393 (Date)0739
Center(List)4391 (Date)0729
Rear (List)4394 (Date)0729
Dana 60 housing
2 17 9 B1
2 20 9 B7 3
C 34155
602957 6
Sure grip unit (Date) 2 19 69
Torsion Bars, Hemi Suspension
Right 780 (Date)109
Left 781 (Date)079
Wiper Motor
(Date) 0219
Radiator
2949054 (Date)0279
Posted By: 69Y2RT
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 05/06/05 04:45 PM
Posted By: A12bee
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/12/05 01:21 AM
I was working on the bee over the weekend and found another part with a date code. The attached shot is from the inner fender splash quard. It is marked as such SWL 9 2. I believe decoded that is left side splash guard Dated (9) 1969 , (2) Feb.
-Paul
Posted By: A12bee
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/29/05 07:46 PM
Saw this on the eng/trans lost and found page.
440 block from lynch road
Vin 9A270698
Cast date 2 17 69
EAD 5 5 69
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/12/06 01:50 AM
Here is a link to a 69 Runner that was built at Lynch Rd. I am not at home so hopefully someone can save the pics for reference. Last 6 of VIN is 289324 and built on 605. Can't quite make out the buildsheet since I am at work supposed to be working.
web page
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/12/06 03:19 PM
fender tag
Posted By: RapidRunner
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/13/06 05:13 AM
I guess I will add this here. Ever adding to list
the second column is the SPD from the fender tag.
RH 319 9A243347
RM 315 9A243369
RM 324 9A246221
RM 329 21M9A246386--------EAD 3 19 (dave Watt)
..........9A246386----Feb 6th Tranny (Dave Watt)
RM 329 21H9A246389--------EAD 3 19 (Harry Goldthorpe)
RH 327 9A248906
RM 402 9A252551
RM 404 21H9A254049
WM 408 9A255429
RM 329 21M9A257118 -----------(rocketresto)
RM 410 9A257478
RM 426 23M9A262511 ------ 4 29 (HolyRRoller tranny)
WM 426 M9A263554 (AZ Dave)
WM 501 9A265557
RM 505 9A266270
RM 506 9A267355
..........9A270643--------EAD 5 28
..........9A270698--------EAD 5 5
RM 426 23M9A272929--------EAD 6 4
RM 426 23M9A282561 (TailButcher)
RM 426 23M9A282563--------EAD 6 5
RM 426 21M9A282574 (RapidRunner)
RM 426 2XM9A282587 (gillman34)
WM 426 23M9A284121---------------(justonewontdo)
RM 426 23M9A286687--------EAD 6 3 (John D’s from Northern VA)
RM 605 21H9A289324 ---------(MI_Custumz)
TRANS VIN 290229 May 21,1969 (DannysBEE)
WM 23H9A295300--------EAD 6 12
RM 616 23H9A297104
TRANS VIN 9A297974 May 28 1969
RM 619 9A300194
WM 426 23M9A301687--------EAD 6 10 (BADSIXPACK – Pete)
WM 426 23M9A301697 (BADSIXPACK – Pete)
RP 618 9A300367
XX 426 M9A303025--------EAD 6 13
WM 426 9A306947
WM 426 23M9A306xxx--------EAD 6 18
RM 701 9A305078
RS 709 9A309995
RM 709 9A310417
RM 709 9A310859
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/20/06 12:33 AM
Where do I find the EAD???
Posted By: Dave Watt
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/20/06 02:54 AM
PJ, it will be hand stamped into the top machined pad on your engine block near the distributor.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/20/06 12:29 PM
Thanks. I wish that I had my original block back. I was told that it was ruined and then I found out that it ended up in a Charger, that has been sold out of our area to parts unknown.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/24/06 04:52 AM
Coop, recent acquisition, M-Code WM23M9A284121, tag notes = Top LtoR 13134 286679 Bottom right, 921468, don't know if it helps the cause, but looking for original drivetrain as we speak...Origianl F/8 car, painted yellow, minied, tied, celled, 6 pointed, any guys out there remember this car from street bracket racing extensively in the 80's (Chicagoland)(Some of you guys might not remember the eighties!) (Maybe that's good-Back then Michael Jackson was eccentric, not crazy!) Thanks for the much information you have posted, I have really enjoyed reading the posted information.......What's the build date based on this info coop??..........B
Posted By: rocketresto
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/25/06 03:03 AM
I was cleening out my desk an found a fender tag rubbing for a car I looked at about 4 years ago. I don't think very many people have seen it, so I thought I'd post the tag info. The car has deen tubbed and caged and the original drive train is long gone. The car is not for sale.
08102 256722 9A257118
926 999 093
26 A12
R4 R4 H2X X9
RM21 E63 D32 329 949362
I hope this helps your data base
Mike
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/25/06 04:00 AM
Welcome! and thanks for the info. Nice car too. many of us have cars which were track warriors...you're far from alone on that one.
Every little bit of info helps. Now, if we can get some of the 'all original' motor cars out there to post their dates we could more accurately assess the NOM cars.
I'm no expert, just guilty of starting this thread. Love to take a guess at your build date...
Have you checked behind the door panels? They are one of the last things to go on the car and are dated.
Aside from part dates we generally use the VINs to round up a build date. if you look above to Rapid's (Mike E) post you'll see John D's original motor car has a VIN very close to yours and an EAD (engine assembly date) of June 3rd. The post 2 above that refers to a lynch road runner with a 289324 VIN having an 'official' (often not actual) build date of June 5th.
If you check through the various info on this thread you'll see a broad trend. The early cars (24XXXX VINs) were built in March, and the late cars (30XXXX VINs) were built in June/July. But that's not to say the trend is absolute. There are always exceptions.
The debates on when the engines and door panels were actually installed (relative to when they were dated) have yet to be resolved. But taking all things into consideration, and hazzarding a guess for you- I'd say your car generally fits into a 1st or second week of June build date. Take your pick on the exact day.
It would've been nice if the last person escorting these things out the door had stamped the date on them -LOL- but no such luck. We are left to speculate through calculated guessing.
Hopefully more here will speculate on how to decipher your car's date. You'll see the beauty of this forum and how multiple responses lead to a more complete understanding of the 'answer'.
Welcome (again) and stick around.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/25/06 04:54 AM
Thanks Coop, I have been enlightened by both you and Mr. Watt, and I see the "trend" you are talking about. Don't hold it against me, but I have been through GTO's for the last dozen years (maybe 50-3 Judges), and it is easier to deal with connecting a car with the original paperwork from Pontiac (PHS), Vs a car that has been for lack of a better term, "drop shipped to the hot rod shop"....This is an education on my part...
By the way the entire tag reads
13134 286679 9A284121
925 999 603
26 A12
1X 8X
F8 F8 h2X X9
WM23 E63 D21 426 921468
Tag has a sideways "G' by the right screw hole...
Mr Watt has been gratious and filled me in on most of the meanings of these (Hats Off to Him!)
Great Forum here, my experiences so far have been great,,,,, Keep Smiling! Brian
Posted By: Seth_Jones
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/25/06 01:01 PM
JUST- your car is only 21 behind my bee.If you have any date code type questions my car would be fairly close.Let me know if you need any info.
Posted By: Dave Watt
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 02/09/06 03:14 AM
Here is an updated list of the date codes and casting numbers on some of my parts.
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 03/01/06 02:40 AM
It's not an EAD but maybe another point of interest in the car assembly. This inspection card is for the passenger bucket seat adjuster and is dated 5/28/69. The EAD is 6/3. The card is signed in pencil by E. Garoway if anyone knows him? There is a note above the date that says "268 pcs" whatever that means?
.JPG "2437435-RFseatadjusterPICT0692(Small).JPG")
Posted By: SixBBL69Boy
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/14/06 05:27 PM
I too have all original parts, drive train, etc. I also have order document from dealer where car was ordered and shipped and sold to 1st owner. Let me know how I can help. Here is basic's RM23M9A285669 DATE 426 SEQ # 949611 (matches preprinted order form from dealer)
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 04/15/06 07:26 PM
What is the engine assembly date on the top engine pad under the E 440 HP marking? It should be the month and day. For example, mine is 6 3
Posted By: SixBBL69Boy
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 05/02/06 12:37 PM
OK, I made it to my fathers to check out dates for you. Thought I would share with all, that's why not private. Here we go, lots of info.
Car # 167 (RM23M9A285669)
Car was ordered (dealer form) 3-12-69 dealer # 63928.
Advance Dealer Shipping Notice dated 5-22-69
S.O.Number given - 426-AR-949611 (build date & order Number) Price $3,086.49
Invoice to Dealer dated 6-5-69 list #4050-01-2004
(what is this list number ??)
Invoice Number - 426-AR-949611
was paid for by dealer 6-12-69 $3,086.49
Carrier Notice Number 19-99263 dated 6-17-69
with exception number 3464 (what might this be?)
Signed for on same day 6-17-69 by Bob Malcom (dealer)
Invoice to owner dated 6-19-69
$3,745.90
$ 135.00 Tax Title
$3,880.90 Total car
$1,225.90 Trade in
$2,655.00 Finance Total - 3yrs @ $88.29 a month
What a deal!!!
Block info -
Casting Date 5-21-69 Cast # 2536430-7
EDA - 5-28 (there is a upside down B above the 8.
I Hope this helps you, and everyone that has questions of how things progressed.
Posted By: Runner2go
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 06/06/06 04:11 PM
Based on what I was reading in this section I'm sure you or one of the other guys can answer this basic engine yr vs model yr question in a flash...
If you have a car, say 1970, that was built Sept-Dec of the prior yr (1969).... Exactly what would be stamped on the top engine pad E440(69) or F440(70)???
The only # matching cars I had & ever cared to look at... were all assembled at the begining of the calander yr Feb-April and the motor matched the model yr. However my 70 6pack Road Runner was built 10/23/69 and the motor was long gone when I got it in 86 [raced most of it's life... One of many I suspect that were found at local race tracks (like Englishtown) with "MIGHTY MOPAR" or something similar on the side]
I put a 70 F440 HP six pack motor in it that came out of a wrecked RT Challenger. The ribbed block was cast in Nov 69(9 looks pretty close to an 8) & assembled in Jan 70. I have always wondered if I should be looking for one that is E440 assembled in early Oct 69... and would such a motor have the externally balanced crank & six pack rods or be built without, more like the A12 cars?
Or should 440/383 motors built in late 69 for 70 cars still have an F code instead of an E to match the model year?
Thanks
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 09/23/06 12:20 AM
here is a good car to get an approximate actual build date
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 09/23/06 09:37 AM
I posted a pic earlier, but A267355 was build 506.
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 09/25/06 06:01 PM
Quote:
Based on what I was reading in this section I'm sure you or one of the other guys can answer this basic engine yr vs model yr question in a flash...
If you have a car, say 1970, that was built Sept-Dec of the prior yr (1969).... Exactly what would be stamped on the top engine pad E440(69) or F440(70)???
The only # matching cars I had & ever cared to look at... were all assembled at the begining of the calander yr Feb-April and the motor matched the model yr. However my 70 6pack Road Runner was built 10/23/69 and the motor was long gone when I got it in 86 [raced most of it's life... One of many I suspect that were found at local race tracks (like Englishtown) with "MIGHTY MOPAR" or something similar on the side]
I put a 70 F440 HP six pack motor in it that came out of a wrecked RT Challenger. The ribbed block was cast in Nov 69(9 looks pretty close to an 8) & assembled in Jan 70. I have always wondered if I should be looking for one that is E440 assembled in early Oct 69... and would such a motor have the externally balanced crank & six pack rods or be built without, more like the A12 cars?
Or should 440/383 motors built in late 69 for 70 cars still have an F code instead of an E to match the model year?
Thanks
runner2go, I just saw this question.
I think what you're asking is whether or not the EAD (engine assembly date) found on the boss pad with it's year designation (D=1968, E=1969, F=1970 etc) reflects the actual year it (the engine) was built OR...reflects the year of the car it was targeted for.
Here's an example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
If you read the description it refers to the boss pad date (EAD) being 8 (August) and the letter being F (1970).
No way 1970 cars were still being built as late as August of 1970. If this is acurate info it was stamped 8 for August (of 1969) and F for the designated 1970 car it was going into (the following year). 
A12s were abnormal mid year squeeze in efforts which included shorter than average time spans between production steps. As a result, all A12 EADs reflect 1969 (not 68) dates between March and June as well as the E440 designation for 69.
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 10/30/06 03:58 AM
Here are some numbers from my car. Let me know if you want me to check anything else? I will probably have the dash apart this Winter to fix my fuel guage and ampmeter:
Car #225 RM23M9A
Assembly plant sequential number 286687
Vehicle Order Number 949797
Line sequence number 289327
Gate 05 Sequence 136
EAD 6/3
Block 5/23/69
Carbs: 1139/4393, 1209/4392, 1219/4394-1
Door panels May 26, 1969
Alternator 69 .....<-( 5 spaces with dots filled in)
Radiator 1299
Exh Man: L 5 26 (Rt has no date)
Heads 05239 L, 05139 R
Top Radiator Hose 38198-A (I did not replace it. It's on the car now along with the original P/S hoses and all the original vacuum lines)
Motor Mounts: Both have 9..... <-(5 dots)
K-Frame 15.9 1
Wiper Motor 1399
Starter Relay 189
Horn Relay 1329
Rear Housing 5 29 (See attached photo)
RF Seat Adjuster #2935782 OK Tag dated 5/28/69
Wheels were 5 14 originally (I have 5 23's on it now but not original to the car)
Lower control arms: 133 Left, 136 Right
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 10/30/06 05:15 AM
Great stuff John, THANKS!
Anyone with a VIN near yours should be very thankful...they just recieved the gift of comparitive information. Tracking down date correct parts just got a little easier.
If more original car owners came forward with this sort of info we'd all be better off.
There should be a stamped ink date on the back of the clock/tach housing.
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 10/31/06 04:11 AM
Added lower control arm dates of 133 (R) and 136 (L) to previous post
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/01/06 11:52 PM
HI,
I JUST REGISTERD I DO NOT OWN AN A-12 CAR BUT MY BUDDY DOES HE BOUGHT IT IN 88 DROVE IT 500 MILES AND ITS BEEN SITTING IN HIS DADS HEATED POLE BULDING EVER SINCE I HAVE THE VIN I WILL HAVE TO DIG IT UP.MAINLY POSTING BECAUSE I HAVE AN ORIGINAL A-12 MOTOR.#9A301727 I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHAT HAPPEND TO THE CAR.THE MOTOR CAME IN A CHALLENGER I BOUGHT IN 88 OUT THE ARLINGTON HTS IL AREA.THE GUY SAID IT WAS OUT OF A 69 1/2 SUPERBEE IT CAME WITH THE ORIGINAL AIR CLEANER THAT MY DUMB A$$ TRADED STRAIGHT UP FOR THE ONE THAT BELONGS ON THE CHALLENGERTHIS YEAR I WAS AT A SHOW IN BELVIDIERE IL AND A GUY HAD AN A12 CAR THERE WE GOT TO TALKING FOUND IT DIDNT HAVE THE ORIGINAL MOTOR.I SAID WHAT IF I GOT THE MOTOR SMALL WORLD REALYY NOT A WHOLE LOT OF THEM MADE LONG STORY SHORT HIS VIN 9A301827 MINE 9A301727 I DONT KNOW A WHOLE LOT ABOUT NUMBERS BUT THEY SOUND PRETTY CLOSE TO ME.THIS MOTOR IS COMPLETLY ORIGINAL OIL PAN CARBS 40,000 MILES ANYONE ELSES MISSING THERE ORIGINAL MOTOR$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Posted By: Alaska_A12
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/07/06 04:28 AM
Per Terry's request this is block info from an Ebay auction....
9A269149 Part#2536430-5 Cast date 2-21-69 Front top pad E440 with upside down A under that and 5 7 HP2 under that
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/20/06 07:34 PM
Sorry to come in so late to this one but the question came up for my car that if the scheduled build date is 426 how could my numbers matching block have been cast in May?? Thanks for the help.
Posted By: dstryr
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/20/06 07:38 PM
John,
The SPD is a 'schedule' date, not necessarily the true production date. All A12s were 3/29 or 4/26 though not built on those 2 days. Mine was 4/26 SPD with an engine assembly date of June 4 and late May coded inside door panels, etc. Hope this helps.
Frank
Posted By: dannysbee
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/20/06 07:44 PM
Because the SPD is just a guess. There are two SPD's for all the A12 cars and we know all were not built in two days. If you have the original door panels look at the dates on the inside of them and that will get you closer to the actual production date of your car. Also the vin help in the speculation, but without factory documentation the actual build date would be hard to determine.
Posted By: Alaska_A12
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/20/06 07:56 PM
Quote:
Because the SPD is just a guess. There are two SPD's for all the A12 cars and we know all were not built in two days. If you have the original door panels look at the dates on the inside of them and that will get you closer to the actual production date of your car. Also the vin help in the speculation, but without factory documentation the actual build date would be hard to determine.
K-member date also seems very close to actual build date.
Posted By: M_code_Coop
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/20/06 10:42 PM
Quote:
K-member date also seems very close to actual build date.
Jim's right, K frame date is usually right on or within a few days of the EAD...
And from what we've seen here, maybe the last factory date to be found on the car (if anyone knows of any later factory dated part please chime in).
You can find the K frame date on the front center curved area.
ALSO, if you have an original numbers matching car please consider posting your VIN along with all your dates. We'd all benefit from it.
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/23/06 09:16 PM
Update to data for car #225/ EAD 6 3: the K-frame is 154 9 1 and the block casting date is 5 7 69. I think this makes the K-frame the same date as the EAD?
Posted By: dstryr
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 12/25/06 12:29 AM
My EAD and K frame bear the same dates as well, June 4, 69. Were the engines and k-frames assembled as a unit and then shipped as a sub-assembly to the assembly line?
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/14/07 06:15 PM
Found another date coded part this weekend. Hope the photo is legible. The big gear for the timing chain has a circle with the initials NPC horizontally across the middle of it and a 6 and a 9 inside the circle above and below the NPC. There are 12 squares in a diamond within the circle around the NPC with dots in 4 of the squares. That makes the timing set an April 69 for a 6/3 EAD.
.jpg "3214853-Timinggeardate(Small).jpg")
Posted By: RoadRunnerJD
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/14/07 06:18 PM
The only identifying mark on the cam is a pink paint dab on the little end. I believe this to be the original. Anybody else have a stock A12 cam with similar markings?
.JPG "3214862-Campaintmk(Small).JPG")
Posted By: MrNormsTA
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 03/19/07 12:06 AM
I have a night casting on my block of 5/16/69 and a stamp of 6/13 and HP on the pad as well as a C. No WT on pad, as far as water testing, the block could of failed another test, so it was water tested, or they had a random system or block of motors that were pulled and done. I have seen both HP and HP2 on original liftoff motors. Might be as simple as assembly shift.
The date on the k frame is 164th day of 69 which would be 6/13/69 which would also be Friday the 13th of 1969, the date on the pad, spooky stuff.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 06/04/07 07:23 PM
I was wondering if anyone can tell what this vin means. WM23M9A291984 thanks.
Posted By: A12
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 06/04/07 08:01 PM
Quote:
I was wondering if anyone can tell what this vin means. WM23M9A291984 thanks.
1. It means it's a '69 "M" code A12 Hardtop Bee.
2. The question is posted in the wrong place and should be posted below in the non-sticky pin section.
3. It also means your "PM" mailbox is most likely full by now.
4. You will now need to post all available photos or you will not be allowed to post ever again 
5. And please, please, please do NOT ask "What's It Worth" 
6. The mod's will most likely move this post-haste
Posted By: familya12
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 07/26/07 10:08 PM
I was wondering with so much irregularity in build dates of thes cars if you were trying to purchase date coded items what date would you seek.
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 07/28/07 01:19 AM
Quote:
I was wondering with so much irregularity in build dates of thes cars if you were trying to purchase date coded items what date would you seek.
all my parts are in a 2-8 week window prior to the actual build date, not fender tag date
Posted By: FJ5_Fish
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 08/30/07 02:08 AM
I like to go by "common to all car" dated items - i.e. parts that every Mopar came with such as voltage regulator, wiper motor, alternator etc. These parts were used on pretty well all cars (B-body for the wiper motor) and such the inventory was freshened pretty regularly. This is assuming the originals are still on the car. Of course you should throw everything else into the mix such as Engine Assy. Date, glass dates, tire dates, wheel dates, Shocks, Dana, VIN and all the other parts discussed in this thread. Compare your findings with other known cars and it should put you in the ballpark.
Posted By: 67gtx440
Re: Sequence Patterns and Codes - 01/03/08 07:22 PM
Will someone please provide to me the correct parts number for a 69 1/2 wood steering wheel .... Thanks !
robertsgtx@yahoo.com