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5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions?
Posted By: demon
5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 01/31/11 09:27 PM
I think I will be swapping a 92 5.2 Magnum into my Challenger.
I have a few questions that maybe somebody here might throw their two cents in.
First off I have 2 choices.
1. a 92 Ram 150 2WD running donor and
2. a 92 Dakota 2WD running donor
both complete trucks. My plan is to swap almost everything over.
First off, what is the best way to deal with the fuel pump?
The Challenger tank is pretty deep.
The Ram uses the 518 trans which a bit bulky but will fit. Will I need to cut/ relieve the floor or trans x member?
The Dakota uses the smaller 500 trans which ought to fit easier.
Are there trans mounts available for these O/D swaps?
Has anyone used a Ram or Dakota steering column in an E body?
Any other stuff I might look at?
I build mopars everyday so this isn't new to me, just looking for some input. Thanks!
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 01/31/11 09:56 PM
I don't think you'll need the trans of steering column. The engine should drop right in. Then it's all about getting the harness cut in. Are you going to keep the beer keg intake or go w/ a M1?
Posted By: demon
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 01/31/11 10:37 PM
I plan on using everything I can. The entire harness, guages, etc.
That way there is NO wiring mods to make it run.
The Dakota even uses a cable speedo so that's a plus.
Actually the Dakotas had a factory tach optional too.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 01/31/11 11:17 PM
Well, I didn't keep the original electonics. Wedgeman might help with some specifics there.
but I did drop a 5.9 into my b-body.
http://www.dodgecoronet.com/forum/showth...&highlight= some of that may or may not help you.
won't say you will have less issues, just different.
you need the 360 LA pan and LA gasket for it.
I would recommend you find the van power steering unit/bracket to tuck it back in a little. will require a different belt.
I got the shumaker mounts, but you could use spacers instead.
There were a couple of people that cut the pump out of the truck and had it welded into the car tank as I recall. Allows for a returnless pump system. I didn't want to go that route.
Wedgeman managed to just wire up power to it and left it an independent harness for the computer and I believe used his own gauges.
I have no idea how you are going to cram truck gagues into an ebody. but more power to you.
Posted By: roadrunninMark
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 01/31/11 11:20 PM
Demon, can you please put up pics when you do this swap? That would be excellent. How much smaller is the 500 vs 518? Also what are the power limits between the 2?
Mark
Posted By: demon
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 01/31/11 11:30 PM
As for the guages, that's pretty easy. The Dakota guages are in a nice compact little rectangle unit that fits in almost any application. My buddy is doing a Dakota frame swap on a 49 ford and we have done lots of research fitting already.Dakotas are the ultimate donor
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 01/31/11 11:45 PM
We did an easier swap, 96 Dakota to 84 Ramcharger. The 84 318 mounts fit the Magnum block just fine. I did have to make a new trans crossmember for the 518, but that was easy. We swapped the entire 96 wiring harness and only made up what we needed for the wipers, steering column, and AC/heater. We used a cluster from a 92 Ram (electronic analog speedometer) because it fit the 84 dash.
The fuel tank is another issue. Both the Ramcharger and Dakota had plastic tanks. I believe the ultimate solution would have been a van fuel tank (mid-90s), but we couldn't find one that hadn't been punctured by the wrecking yard. We wound up using some sealant and some screws/plates to attach the Dakota pump flange to the Ramcharger tank.
Posted By: demon
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/01/11 02:45 AM
Quote:
Demon, can you please put up pics when you do this swap? That would be excellent. How much smaller is the 500 vs 518? Also what are the power limits between the 2?
Mark
I will post pics but it might be a few months.
I'm hoping to have a lot of it sorted out and engineered soon. Plan is to make it super simple so anyone can do it. Using donor vehicle parts wherever possible.
Posted By: ahy
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/01/11 03:59 AM
For the fuel pump, a frame rail mounted high pressure pump will work with regulator in the engine compartment. Use a 3/8" pick up minimum. Aeromotive, Holley and others have pumps with the right capacity. Stay away from the super high capacity pumps like the A1000 as they are too much for the stock pickup. With a stock pickup, you should keep the tank at least 1/4 full.
There was a long post on fuel tanks for EFI last fall. If you search for it you'll find lots of other options for in tank and sumps.
Posted By: Four40mopar
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/01/11 05:35 AM
If you use the smallest avalible fuel tank from a 92-96 4 cyl Dakota it is like a fuel cell you can put in the trunk. That way you can adapt the factory fuel pump, you will have to make the lines from scratch. You can also make the fuel filler tube work with some mods. Don't forget to pull the intake manifold and replace the belly pan gasket on the bottom. Get the updated gasket from the dealer, if you don't they are known to suck/burn oil.
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/01/11 06:06 AM
You may not have to make lines from scratch to use the Dakota pump. We couldn't use the Dakota lines due to the location of the tank, but we grabbed the lines from a short wheelbase van and the fit was perfect in our Ramcharger, which I believe, has a similar wheelbase to an E-body.
Posted By: demon
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/01/11 06:48 AM
Great tips so far! Thanks everyone!
I have the Dakota guage cluster in front of me right now and it will be easy to adapt. The E body dash is wide open with the stock guages out. Tons of room to fit and all nice flat straight angles to make my faceplate simple. Won't look like stock guages but will function 100% and have all the Dakota features intact. Tomorrow I'll compare steering columns. I have them both out. Looks like a simple changeover too.
I'd say the E body/Dakota morph will be quite slick. The rear diff is actually pretty close too so I may stick it in as well so I have the antilock rear brakes too.
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/01/11 06:51 AM
The Dakota we parted had a 3.55 geared 8-1/4, but it didn't have a sure grip and I let it go with the trailer that I made out of the bed as I didn't have anything else. SO, check those gears.
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/01/11 06:53 AM
Oh, and here is the trailer that I made. I couldn't find a buyer for the bed, so........I also got $400 for it.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/01/11 02:38 PM
Quote:
I plan on using everything I can. The entire harness, guages, etc.
That way there is NO wiring mods to make it run.
The Dakota even uses a cable speedo so that's a plus.
Actually the Dakotas had a factory tach optional too.
yes I have a 95 Sport Dak w/ a 5.2. Seems like a lot of work that might not be needed. I'm guessing you'd swap the wheel out? The column is awfully fat. Not sure you could get it in the e-body w/ some cutting.
Posted By: mafo
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/02/11 11:57 AM
I m working on a similar swap here, 318/a500 in a 55 coronet but my motor is out of a 94 grand cherokee and trans is from a van I believe.
anyhow, about power steering pumps, jeep has a different bracket that
places the pump very close to the waterpump, maybe something to look into
another thing about jeeps, you can t use jeep exhaust manifolds with "normal" starter position, I guess GC has the starter on the other side?
Posted By: demon
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/03/11 10:13 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I plan on using everything I can. The entire harness, guages, etc.
That way there is NO wiring mods to make it run.
The Dakota even uses a cable speedo so that's a plus.
Actually the Dakotas had a factory tach optional too.
yes I have a 95 Sport Dak w/ a 5.2. Seems like a lot of work that might not be needed. I'm guessing you'd swap the wheel out? The column is awfully fat. Not sure you could get it in the e-body w/ some cutting.
so today I placed the E body column and the Dakota column side by side and did some measuring. They are identical tube diameter. Overall tube length very close. Shaft is different but easily modified by combining the two or using an intermediate shaft like a 72-93 Dodge 4x4. The upper column and plastic covers etc all work fine. I test fit it into the dash too and only minor trimming to the Dakota plastic covers needed. This will be no problem putting the Dakota column in. Only thing I didn't do yet was pull the Dakota steering wheel off to see If the splines will accept the E body soup can.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/03/11 10:24 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I plan on using everything I can. The entire harness, guages, etc.
That way there is NO wiring mods to make it run.
The Dakota even uses a cable speedo so that's a plus.
Actually the Dakotas had a factory tach optional too.
yes I have a 95 Sport Dak w/ a 5.2. Seems like a lot of work that might not be needed. I'm guessing you'd swap the wheel out? The column is awfully fat. Not sure you could get it in the e-body w/ some cutting.
so today I placed the E body column and the Dakota column side by side and did some measuring. They are identical tube diameter. Overall tube length very close. Shaft is different but easily modified by combining the two or using an intermediate shaft like a 72-93 Dodge 4x4. The upper column and plastic covers etc all work fine. I test fit it into the dash too and only minor trimming to the Dakota plastic covers needed. This will be no problem putting the Dakota column in. Only thing I didn't do yet was pull the Dakota steering wheel off to see If the splines will accept the E body soup can.
what did you do about the big plastic boxey mass that houses the key, hazards, wiper and turn signal switches???
Posted By: demon
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/04/11 12:29 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I plan on using everything I can. The entire harness, guages, etc.
That way there is NO wiring mods to make it run.
The Dakota even uses a cable speedo so that's a plus.
Actually the Dakotas had a factory tach optional too.
yes I have a 95 Sport Dak w/ a 5.2. Seems like a lot of work that might not be needed. I'm guessing you'd swap the wheel out? The column is awfully fat. Not sure you could get it in the e-body w/ some cutting.
so today I placed the E body column and the Dakota column side by side and did some measuring. They are identical tube diameter. Overall tube length very close. Shaft is different but easily modified by combining the two or using an intermediate shaft like a 72-93 Dodge 4x4. The upper column and plastic covers etc all work fine. I test fit it into the dash too and only minor trimming to the Dakota plastic covers needed. This will be no problem putting the Dakota column in. Only thing I didn't do yet was pull the Dakota steering wheel off to see If the splines will accept the E body soup can.
what did you do about the big plastic boxey mass that houses the key, hazards, wiper and turn signal switches???
that plastic boxy unit fits just fine. Doesn't look stock for an E body, but does blend in reasonably well. Hoping the E body can and wheel fit right on
Posted By: Dragula
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/04/11 04:26 AM
Why not a FAST EZ efi?
Posted By: demon
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/04/11 04:35 AM
Quote:
Why not a FAST EZ efi?
I can buy a running Dakota for $500-$1500 and get every piece I need. All mopar and cheap
Posted By: MarkZ
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/04/11 11:15 PM
As for the differences between the 500/518 case sizes, they're negligible. The overdrive section measures the same, and from that point forward you're talking the difference between a 904 and a 727. Both transmissions will require cutting the transmission cross member and welding a piece of fitted flat stock in its place. Make your decision based on the condition of the two, and intended use. Size matters not (obligatory Star Wars quote).
Posted By: ralphie361
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/05/11 03:01 AM
I am beginning the same type of swap on a 68 fury 4door (why?) although I am not using the whole harness. I am going to splice the original harness with the underhood one from the Dakota. I have a friend with some experience in this, but he says there are only 5 or so wires to splice on OBD1. As for fuel system, I have a '71 tank in the car already so it has some vapor return ports. The LS1 corvettes use a fuel filter with a built in regulator, it has in, out and return, so I plan on using an inline pump. I was able to score a deal on a 95 dak with a 5.2 but a blown trans, but my car has a good 727 so I am going to use it for now. Sorry for the long post, but I thought I was the last one trying to do a EFI magnum swap!
Posted By: patrick
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/05/11 03:19 AM
Quote:
As for the differences between the 500/518 case sizes, they're negligible. The overdrive section measures the same, and from that point forward you're talking the difference between a 904 and a 727. Both transmissions will require cutting the transmission cross member and welding a piece of fitted flat stock in its place. Make your decision based on the condition of the two, and intended use. Size matters not (obligatory Star Wars quote).
actually, there was a post here years ago for E and '71 up B's that put a 518 in them WITHOUT cutting the t-bar xmember, but by trimming some of the ribs on the OD case....dunno if anyone has the pics saved anymore...
Posted By: mike s
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/05/11 06:57 AM
A few of items to note:
1)The 92 5.2L was a return fuel system 40 psi with pump in the tank and a regulator on the fuel rail.93 up uses the returnless system with a bypass and pump in the tank.40 psi until 96.Switch the fuel rail to 93-95 type.
2)There is a very shallow Jeep tank that might bolt in.It has the pump and bypass in the tank.It will need to be modified slightly to fill it of course.
3)You can patch in the Magnum harness to the vehicle harness-8 wires
Posted By: demon
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/05/11 08:58 PM
Quote:
A few of items to note:
1)The 92 5.2L was a return fuel system 40 psi with pump in the tank and a regulator on the fuel rail.93 up uses the returnless system with a bypass and pump in the tank.40 psi until 96.Switch the fuel rail to 93-95 type.
2)There is a very shallow Jeep tank that might bolt in.It has the pump and bypass in the tank.It will need to be modified slightly to fill it of course.
3)You can patch in the Magnum harness to the vehicle harness-8 wires
right on! Thanks. That's some good info
Posted By: SattyNoCar
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/05/11 11:44 PM
Nothing to add, just watching this post too as I want to do something similar with my 4dr Satellite. I don't need a drag-strip terror, just want a reliable driver.
Posted By: roadrunninMark
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/06/11 12:39 AM
Mark and Pat, thanks for the info on the trans differences and such. If anyone can find those older pic for shaving down the casing to make it fit, that would be excellent.
Also, is the gearing different between the two?
Posted By: patrick
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/07/11 04:05 PM
A500/42RH uses the low gear 904 setup: 2.74/1.54/1/.69 OD
A518/46RH uses the standard 727 setup, 2.45/1.45/1/.69 OD
I'm running a 42RH in my 5th ave. mark is switching from a 42RH to a 46RH.
Posted By: Montclaire
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/07/11 04:45 PM
Posted By: wldtm
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/11/11 06:01 AM
Quote:
I am beginning the same type of swap on a 68 fury 4door (why?) although I am not using the whole harness. I am going to splice the original harness with the underhood one from the Dakota. I have a friend with some experience in this, but he says there are only 5 or so wires to splice on OBD1. As for fuel system, I have a '71 tank in the car already so it has some vapor return ports. The LS1 corvettes use a fuel filter with a built in regulator, it has in, out and return, so I plan on using an inline pump. I was able to score a deal on a 95 dak with a 5.2 but a blown trans, but my car has a good 727 so I am going to use it for now. Sorry for the long post, but I thought I was the last one trying to do a EFI magnum swap!
Update on this car. Here is some progress pics of the harness. It is pretty easy to strip this harness down to what is not needed. It will use the ASD and Fuel Pump relay.
The three loops of wire are fo 12v feed, 12v run/ign feed, and 12 out to fuel pump (from relay)
Still need to finish wrapping it back up, and tie up a couple loose ends.
Justin
Posted By: wldtm
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/11/11 06:02 AM
another...
Posted By: wldtm
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/11/11 06:03 AM
one more...
Posted By: ralphie361
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/28/11 12:47 AM
Update on the Fury, engine out, trans notched, but I need a different converter. The one in the car had 11inch bolt spacing and I need one with 10 inch to fit inside the magnum flex plate. Should be bolted together in the next few weeks.
Posted By: ralphie361
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 02/28/11 12:51 AM
Here is the car its going in.
Posted By: ralphie361
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 03/20/11 11:19 PM
Update on the Fury, engine in, no problems there. Modified the gas pedal assembly to accept the dakota throttle cable, and the exhaust will have to be fabricated, but other than that no issues. Now for wiring and fuel system.
Posted By: demon
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 03/20/11 11:36 PM
Love your Fury. Great looking car!
The 5.2 looks like a natural in there.how about some details. Did you get the harness figured out?
Posted By: RodStRace
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 03/21/11 01:20 AM
Great info, I'll be watching this. I have a 40 Plymouth with a 92 Dakota drivetrain and harness on the back burner. Sure hope a MOD will bumpe this to the tech archive when it's done....
Posted By: wldtm
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 03/21/11 01:46 AM
The harness should be installed by the end of this week (time allowing). Hopefully some pics will be taken. If you want to build your own harness PM me if you need some help or I have another one done for this swap if you want to purchase one. It will be nice to see how this first one goes. This should be a very nice driver, that anyone can drive and start without setting the choke. Looks good Ralph!
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 03/21/11 03:11 AM
did you swap out the column yet? or did you give up on that?
Posted By: wldtm
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 03/21/11 03:40 AM
the gentlemen with the fury in the pic wasnt going to do that. we made our own harness. we just posted pics to this thread because he was doing something similar to the 5.2 in the E body. this car (gold fury) used factory dakota wiring harness modified and the 5.2. he is trying to do this as simple as possible.
justin
Posted By: ralphie361
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 03/23/11 02:09 AM
Fired the car up for the first time tonight! Plugged in most of the harness, and tapped 12V off of the alternator and 12v ignition on source off of the old coil wire, temporarily. If you take out the ballast resistor and jumper the terminals you get full 12V on start and run position in the ignition switch. Still did not plumb a fuel system, just running it off of a pressurized tank for the moment. Now for permanent wiring since I know it works. Thanks to Justin (wldtm) for all of his help on this car
Posted By: demon
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 03/23/11 05:21 AM
Quote:
Fired the car up for the first time tonight! Plugged in most of the harness, and tapped 12V off of the alternator and 12v ignition on source off of the old coil wire, temporarily. If you take out the ballast resistor and jumper the terminals you get full 12V on start and run position in the ignition switch. Still did not plumb a fuel system, just running it off of a pressurized tank for the moment. Now for permanent wiring since I know it works. Thanks to Justin (wldtm) for all of his help on this car
excellent!
I'd sure like to know what wires are necessary for making the engine and computer function so I can retain my stock dash etc if I go that way. Nice job!
Posted By: wldtm
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 03/23/11 12:13 PM
Keep these PINs per a 94 dakota service manual
PINS
1 map sensor
2 ECT sensor
3 Battery feed
4 sensor return
6 5v supply
7 8v supply
9 Ignition feed
10 not needed with 727
11 Ground
12 Ground
13 Inj Driver4
14 Inj Driver3
15 Inj Driver2
16 Inj Driver1
17 Inj Driver7
18 Inj Driver8
19 Ign Coil Driver
20 Gen Feild Driver
21 Air Temp Sensor
22 TP Sensor
24 Reference Pickup
25 Data link
27 AC compressor (if keeping AC)
29 Brake sense (if keeping cruise)
30 P/N switch
32 MIL
33 VSS (if keeping dakota cruise) we got rid of)
34 AC WOT relay (if keeping ac- we got rid of)
35 EGR Solenoid (we deleted EGR)
37 Trans OD light (we got rid of)
38 Inj Driver5
39 IAC
40 IAC
41 Heated O2 Sensor
43 Tach (we kept)
44 CMP sensor
45 Data llink
47 VSS pick up (we kept for now) KEEP 47-50, 53 keep if using dakota cruise
48 VSS set/coast (we got rid of)
49 VSS on/off (we got rid of)
50 VSS resume/accel
51 ASD relay and fuel pump relay driver
52 Evap purge (we got rid of)
53 VSS vent (we got rid of)
54 EMCC solenoid (we got rid of)
55 Trans OD solenoid (we got rid of) (keep if using 42rh or 46rh)
57 ASD bat supply
58 Inj Driver6
59 IAC
60 IAC
The best thing to do is build a wiring harness using a 94-95 dakota schematic. You will need an ASD and fuel pump relay socket. This is the part where you will need to do a little modifying.
It depends on how much stuff you want to keep. You could keep AC, overdrive trans, and cruise if you wanted to...
Use the vehicles stock sending unit to run gauges ex) temp, oil psi, volts
I can make this harness for interested parties
Posted By: ralphie361
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 03/27/11 02:19 AM
Found an oversight in my parts selection this afternoon. 5.2 and 5.9 magnums use the same oil pan, not like 318 vs 360 LA. When I first filled it with oil I had a leak and chalked it up to me screwing up the gasket install. After the second one this afternoon leaked I looked it up online and got conflicting stories. MP tech line confirmed that I need a 360 car pan instead of the 318 pan for the 5.2 or 5.9, and they said the one piece rubber gasket should work. Minor issue, but annoying!
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 03/27/11 02:57 AM
Quote:
Found an oversight in my parts selection this afternoon. 5.2 and 5.9 magnums use the same oil pan, not like 318 vs 360 LA. When I first filled it with oil I had a leak and chalked it up to me screwing up the gasket install. After the second one this afternoon leaked I looked it up online and got conflicting stories. MP tech line confirmed that I need a 360 car pan instead of the 318 pan for the 5.2 or 5.9, and they said the one piece rubber gasket should work. Minor issue, but annoying!
the one piece does not work. I know. unless you adjust the pan, it will leave a gap at the front and back of the motor. you need to use the LA gasket set.
Posted By: ralphie361
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 03/27/11 03:17 AM
Thanks for the heads up, I ordered the one piece and the old style gasket when I ordered the pan, just in case!
Posted By: ralphie361
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 04/02/11 11:50 PM
Plumbed the fuel lines on the Fury today and ran power to the pump and the fuel system is working. Used a mopar pump from the magnum mpi conversion kit, and an ls1 corvette filter with regulator. Without spending the big bucks on a sumped tank with internal pump, the fuel system isnt as clean as I had hoped, but it works. I drove the car around the block this afternoon, pretty pumped!
Now to tidy up the wiring and hang an exhaust on it.
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 04/03/11 01:05 AM
if you ever plan on putting in dual exhause you might want to re think that mount.
I put mine in without exhause and found that long idle times, like stop and go traffic will kill the pump. when it is that close.
Posted By: ralphie361
Re: 5.2 EFI swap into E body suggestions? - 04/03/11 02:47 AM
Yeah, I actually took off one of the tailpipes from the duals that were on there to mount it there. To get the pump low enough, but still close to the tank that is one of the compromises I made. I figure if I upgrade the engine, I'll probably upgrade the fuel system to match with an in tank setup.