Warning for racing rigs in Pa.

USDOT/FHWA- Code of Federal Regulations.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/...0&TYPE=TEXT
Commercial motor vehicle means any self-propelled or towed motor
vehicle used on a highway in interstate commerce to transport passengers
or property when the vehicle--
(1) Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight , or gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight, of 4,536 kg
(10,001 pounds) or more, whichever is greater; or
(2) Is designed or used to transport more than 8 passengers
(including the driver) for compensation; or
(3) Is designed or used to transport more than 15 passengers,
including the driver, and is not used to transport passengers for
compensation; or
(4) Is used in transporting material found by the Secretary of
Transportation to be hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and transported in a
quantity requiring placarding under regulations prescribed by the
Secretary under 49 CFR, subtitle B, chapter I, subchapter C.

In Maryland DOT has been pulling over landscaping company pickup trucks with trailers behind them and busting them for not having DOT# or USDOT# and medical cards when they are over 10,000 GCVW. The biggest thing is having the medical card.

It will be interesting now that we are expected to be managed by the DOT as commercial enterprises and then the IRS wants to declare racing for most of us as a "Hobby".

The way I feel the gov't can't have it both ways.

Steve Earwood ( pres of Rockingham Dragway) held a meeting of the NC Motorsports Assoc. last week NC has the same laws, that are now being enforced on I-85 and this presents a big problem with the 1st annual Carolina Nationals NHRA race in Sept @ the new Lowes Dragstrip.

then if people has to have a cdl to haul their race cars with their pickups, they should be allowed to take their cdl driving exam with their pickups. i would like to see somebody try and pull that off. you and i know that wouldnt be allowed to happen.

At least for FL, what about...

S2296 GENERAL BILL by Posey; (CO-INTRODUCERS) Bullard
Commercial Motor Vehicles [EPCC]; Exempts certain vehicles that
occasionally transport personal property to and from closed-course
motorsport facilities from the definition of "commercial motor vehicle"
for the purposes of statutory provisions relating to state uniform
traffic control and statutory provisions governing motor vehicle
licenses and driver's licenses, etc. EFFECTIVE DATE: 07/01/2008.
- - - - - - - -

CODING: Words stricken are deletions; words underlined are additions.
1
2
An act relating to commercial motor vehicles; amending s.
3
316.003, F.S.; exempting certain vehicles that
4
occasionally transport personal property to and from
5
closed-course motorsport facilities from the definition of
6
"commercial motor vehicle" for purposes of statutory
7
provisions relating to state uniform traffic control;
8
amending ss. 320.01 and 322.01, F.S.; exempting certain
9
vehicles that occasionally transport personal property to
10
and from closed-course motorsport facilities from the
11
definition of "commercial motor vehicle" for purposes of
12
statutory provisions governing motor vehicle licenses and
13
driver's licenses; providing an effective date.
14
15
Be It Enacted by the Legislature of the State of Florida:
16
17
Section 1. Subsection (66) of section 316.003, Florida
18
Statutes, is amended to read:
19
316.003 Definitions.--The following words and phrases, when
20
used in this chapter, shall have the meanings respectively
21
ascribed to them in this section, except where the context
22
otherwise requires:
23
(66) COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE.--Any self-propelled or towed
24
vehicle used on the public highways in commerce to transport
25
passengers or cargo, if such vehicle:
26
(a) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or
27
more;
28
(b) Is designed to transport more than 15 passengers,
29
including the driver; or
30
(c) Is used in the transportation of materials found to be
31
hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials
32
Transportation Act, as amended (49 U.S.C. ss. 1801 et seq.).
33
34
A vehicle that occasionally transports personal property to and
35
from a closed-course motorsport facility, as defined in s.
36
549.09(1)(a), is not a commercial motor vehicle if it is not used
37
for profit and corporate sponsorship is not involved. As used in
38
this subsection, the term "corporate sponsorship" means a
39
payment, donation, gratuity, in-kind service, or other benefit
40
provided to or derived by a person in relation to the underlying
41
activity, other than the display of product or corporate names,
42
logos, or other graphic information on the property being
43
transported.
44
Section 2. Subsection (26) of section 320.01, Florida
45
Statutes, is amended to read:
46
320.01 Definitions, general.--As used in the Florida
47
Statutes, except as otherwise provided, the term:
48
(26) "Commercial motor vehicle" means any vehicle which is
49
not owned or operated by a governmental entity, which uses
50
special fuel or motor fuel on the public highways, and which has
51
a gross vehicle weight of 26,001 pounds or more, or has three or
52
more axles regardless of weight, or is used in combination when
53
the weight of such combination exceeds 26,001 pounds gross
54
vehicle weight. A vehicle that occasionally transports personal
55
property to and from a closed-course motorsport facility, as
56
defined in s. 549.09(1)(a), is not a commercial motor vehicle if
57
the use is not for profit and corporate sponsorship is not
58
involved. As used in this subsection, the term "corporate
59
sponsorship" means a payment, donation, gratuity, in-kind
60
service, or other benefit provided to or derived by a person in
61
relation to the underlying activity, other than the display of
62
product or corporate names, logos, or other graphic information
63
on the property being transported.
64
Section 3. Subsection ( of section 322.01, Florida
65
Statutes, is amended to read:
66
322.01 Definitions.--As used in this chapter:
67
( "Commercial motor vehicle" means any motor vehicle or
68
motor vehicle combination used on the streets or highways, which:
69
(a) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or
70
more;
71
(b) Is designed to transport more than 15 persons,
72
including the driver; or
73
(c) Is transporting hazardous materials and is required to
74
be placarded in accordance with Title 49 C.F.R. part 172, subpart
75
F.
76
77
A vehicle that occasionally transports personal property to and
78
from a closed-course motorsport facility, as defined in s.
79
549.09(1)(a), is not a commercial motor vehicle if the use is not
80
for profit and corporate sponsorship is not involved. As used in
81
this subsection, the term "corporate sponsorship" means a
82
payment, donation, gratuity, in-kind service, or other benefit
83
provided to or derived by a person in relation to the underlying
84
activity, other than the display of product or corporate names,
85
logos, or other graphic information on the property being
86
transported.
87
Section 4. This act shall take effect July 1, 2008.

And unless somthing has changed, there is no way to tag a FL trailer RV. All tags are just tags and not for "purpose". Cargo and RV - same tag.

I have to chime in here with a question.

Just what is meant by "...a highway in interstate commerce"...

Im sorry, but hauling to a shop or car show or test~n~tune etc is hardly commerce

(Sounds like Florida inserted some common sense verbiage)

"The Not So NEW DOT Regulations That Impact Car, Boat, and Horse Enthusiasts
By Mary Cedeno

The Regulations are NOT new. They seem new because we simply went on our merry way before and never thought about them. But when our friends started getting pulled over and cited and told to get US Dept. of Transportation (USDOT) numbers, they kind of got our attention.

However, simply obtaining a DOT number is not where the difficulty lies. It is what comes AFTER that. Any commercial vehicle operating in interstate commerce, who obtains a USDOT number, is required to abide by the FMCSA Safety Regulations. This includes keeping a daily log book, certain safety training, vehicle inspections, annual log reviews, etc and so on…obviously meant for COMMERCIAL transporters. There are strict requirements for these log books, it’s not simply writing down your mileage from one place to the next. If you are interested in learning more about these regulations, you can stop at any truck stop and purchase the 661 page “Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Pocketbook” for about $5. Oh, but don’t forget to grab the $2 (or so) “Official Deluxe Duplicate Copy DRIVER’S DAILY LOG” – because you’ll need that too if you get your USDOT number and intend to travel across state lines (even with your hobby race or show car).

Hobbyists, trailering their car, horse or boat to an event, are being stopped on the roads by enforcement officers all across the country and told they need a DOT number. The hobbyists are simply taking their hobby vehicle to a show or race event. They are on the road perhaps five or six times a year with their vehicles, in summer weather usually, and often towing some of their most valued possessions. To hold hobbyists to the same commercial standards as commercial transporters simply does not make sense. And the lawmakers obviously agreed - which is why they specifically wrote certain applicability requirements into the exceptions of the regulation.

Specifically, 390.3(f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to -

(f)(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;

Even with the Guidance below, supplied by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, hobbyists are being stopped and cited by enforcement officers.

Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the “occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise” apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.

SO, WHY ARE HOBBYISTS BEING TARGETED?
I asked a question of two different Federal Officers …What if a person is a member of a car club and the club obtains money from sponsors, the car is required to run the decals of the sponsors. The prize money for anyone who wins is made up partly of the money the club obtained from sponsors and partly from membership dues. Now, is that considered corporate sponsorship? BOTH of the agents I spoke with told me no, that would be prize money and the exception would still apply if they claimed it as regular income and did not write off expenses as part of a business. The difference is Corporate Sponsorship is what is paid to an individual whether they win a race or not, endorsement money is based on a driver winning and is therefore PRIZE money.

Part of the problem appears to be how the officer stopping you interprets what he/she is seeing. And, how do you, as the one being ticketed and potentially impounded, prove to the officer that you are simply a HOBBY racer and not in business or under a corporate sponsorship?

Even the people answering the phones at the FMCSA Help Line do not know about this exception and insisted anything over 10,000 lbs combined must have a DOT number. I spoke with supervisor after supervisor, until they finally referred me to the FMCSA Enforcement Office in Washington.

STUCK IN THE MIDDLE
According to the IRS, a business venture needs to have profit as its primary motive and the individuals involved need to spend a substantial amount of time participating in the venture. In order to write off business expenses the business needs to be profitable within three years and have a profit two out of five years with very few exceptions to this rule.

Just because you may have a lot of money invested into it, unless it is specifically performed for PROFIT and your “business” turns a profit in at least two of five years (generally speaking), then you have yourself a hobby, not a business.

So here we are, the hobby racer, seemingly stuck in the middle of two opposing federal rules. But not so, the IRS clearly defines the rules of business, and with the GUIDANCE in question 21 above, the FMCSA has clearly defined “commercial”. But unless the enforcement officer agrees, you will still be ticketed.

CONSEQUENCES OF USDOT NUMBERING
Some of you are wondering, “Wouldn’t it be easier to just get the DOT number and be done with it?”

Well, if you are operating a commercial motor vehicle over 10,000lbs for business purposes, you have no choice, you must get the DOT number. However, if you are a hobbyist abiding by all the restrictions of the exception noted above, and you still want to get the DOT number and cross state lines, you WILL be subject to the DOT safety regulations just as they apply to the commercial truckers.

If you are driving a 26,000 lb or more CMV, you are most likely required to obtain a CDL (commercial drivers’ license). This will kick in even more restrictions, including annual drug and alcohol screening. However, if you are operating an RV - these CDL rules may not apply.

APPLICABLE OR NOT, HERE THEY COME
Well, here it is. The Federal government has given us an exception to the applicability of the DOT numbering requirements; they gave their guidance describing who exactly gets the exception. Both are available for review online by anyone who would like to look at them. And then we have the enforcement agent.

It seems that some of the DOT enforcement officers are unaware of the exception and may have never seen the interpretation in the FMCSA guidance documents. They may be having difficulty determining who IS a business and who is not. So, they appear to be requiring EVERYONE to get a DOT number….even though the regulation stipulates hobbyists as described above, don’t need one.

It’s the equivalent to hauling in all the redheads on the block because someone saw a redhead committing a crime. If the police did this, they would be in the wrong and there would be many, many people pointing it out. So where is all the fuss? Why isn’t anyone saying anything? I think folks are intimidated and afraid to speak out. After all, the enforcement officer wields a lot of power over the average driver and they CAN make your life difficult - if only for a short time.

In the end, hobbyists are subject NOT to the actual regulations, but to the INTERPRETATION by the officer who stops us on any given day, in any given state. Just because we may be right does not mean we won’t get stopped by an officer somewhere who sees the rules/regulations differently.

WHAT CAN YOU DO?
If you ARE just a hobbyist and do not write off your expenses, and you want to take the exception, I suggest you not only carry a copy of the regulation and exception, but read it and understand it so that you can CALMLY explain it to the officer who may stop you. Because it sounds to me like the officers on the road are going to test your knowledge.

If you ARE cited, be sure take the opportunity to go to court to explain the situation and defend yourself. Because if you ARE just a hobbyist, the exemption in the regulations is written for YOU. If you do go to court, you might want to bring your tax records with you as proof.

Although all the States have adopted the federal regulation, be aware that individual States may have additional regulations written in to their traffic laws. It is your responsibility to contact the state where you plan to tow your vehicle and check on the regulations that apply. That is easier said than done of course. I personally was transferred over seven times on the phone when trying to find a DOT officer in one state who could tell me if they had any additional regulations that may apply. I ended up back at the first one who transferred me!

Don’t be shy. Contact your local track owners, state representatives and anyone else who will listen. There is an exception - if it does not apply to hobbyists - then who does it apply to?

RV’s AND THE USDOT NUMBERING REQUIREMENTS
OK, here’s the rub guys. You can get yourself a nice big toter home and tow your 50’ recreational stacker trailer anywhere you want and you won’t need to worry about those silly little DOT numbers. You can tow it all day long – cover 80ft of road and no worry. No USDOT requirements for RV’s used solely for recreational purposes, if you use them for business that’s something else and the regulations would apply.

CDL LICENSING
If your gross vehicle weight (GVW) or gross vehicle combined weight (GVCW) are over 26,000 lbs you are most likely required to obtain a Commercial Drivers License (CDL). You might be able to get away with an RV Endorsement if you have an RV, but it varies from State to State and it might be easier just to get the CDL. However, the CDL licensing may kick additional regulations into play. Please contact your DMV office and ask the questions before you decide to get the CDL.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
FMCSA = Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The specific regulation is 49 CFR 390.3
The FMCSA web site where the regulation and Guidance document are located are at:
www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/390reg.htm "

I have been told by a FMCSA rep that ALL states have adopted this federal regulation.
My suggestion is to make a copy of the exemption and give it to the nice officer when he tries to cite you. If he continues get his Name (first and last) his badge number the Zone/district he works in and his commander/commandant name. Let him know that when you go to court to fight said citation and win you are going to writ a lerter to the papers in his zone letting the area residents and public officials know the facts and the continued harassment the law enforcment people to do keeping you from spending $$$ in their area.
Now mind you better have your I's crossed and T's doted cause he's gonna look for something ... but be polite and firm with your information.

So my Dodge 2500 is rated at 8800 GVW. My trailer is 28' and registered at 9900 GVW. If I have to go register the truck for 18700 GVW, I will have to register it as commercial in CT. Not going to happen. If this is where this country is going, it is a sad day for all of us. I have spoke with several officers in the past and they said I was legal as did the local DMV. Now what is the law stating if the people enforcing the law don't know.

Well, I guess everybody figured out how the state of PA is going to pay for all those toll boths they are going to put on I80! Federal guidlines have been around for decades. Some states opted to use them, some didn't. To get more federal highway funds, some of the states that didn't now are following federal guidlines. Same process goes for smog testing. Some states don't do it, some do.Every now & then, the feds will pressure a state to follow fed guidlines for smog inspections to receive federal money for highway upkeep & construction. Kinda like when the proctologist has BOTH hands on your back during an examination!


Kerry

looks like it may be time to go back to some POS open trailer and tell them where to stick it

Bob, one thing that wasn't brought up (or maybe I missed it) was, how are your vehicles registered?

Are they in your name or your companies name?

I have known about this for quite awhile. I never worried about it because my bro in law always drives and he has his CDLs.

And the "not for profit" non commercial thing doesn't fly because what are you going to the track to try and win?

Money......

Ok...Help me understand. I have a new 08 Hemi Ram 1/2 ton--I have bought the extra weight on my NC tag to cover a combined 12000 lbs ( was some extra $$ but not too bad ) tag says WEIGHTED and my registration shows the 12000 OK I hook to my open trailer, go pick up a Roadrunner then I am approx 11000-11500 or so AM I OK?? Not a business, just found me a car and are heading home

I am still trying to understand this. I thought that the sticker inside the door was just for the maximum weight the truck could haul including passangers and cargo. I didn't think it had anything to do with a trailer, thats why (at least in my state) you tag your trailer for the maximum amount of weight it will haul. My trucks sticker says 11,200 but the truck is 7500 empty, and my trailer is tagged for 7,000 and hauls a 4,000 pound jeep (for now) so i would think i would be ok because i am under the gvw for the truck and trailer? This has me worried about hauling my trailer period.

So what about car dollys or trailers you get from Uhaul or Penskie, will those require CDL if they are over the limit?

There is a manufacture max gross combination(towing) weight.My Dodge 3500 is gvw at 12,200lbs my max combination weight is rated at 23,000lbs.I can only licence my total combo weight at the 23,000lbs even though my trailer is rated at 16,000lbs.Last night I was weighed at 20,200lbs,my fine was based on the difference of my truck gross and combo gross weight,8000lbs.

There is a manufacture max gross combination(towing) weight.My Dodge 3500 is gvw at 12,200lbs my max combination weight is rated at 23,000lbs.I can only licence my total combo weight at the 23,000lbs even though my trailer is rated at 16,000lbs.Last night I was weighed at 20,200lbs,my fine was based on the difference of my truck gross and combo gross weight,8000lbs.

There is another big link over on www.classracer.com about this same subject
going on in NC and the effects it's having.

If you read the CDL licensing requirements book in PA it contradicts it's self. I asked PennDOT for a clarification on the statements and got, "read the book it is in there." According to the book you may have a trailer OVER 10,000 lbs. and as long as your combination wt. does not exceede 26,001 lbs. you are not required to have a CDL. I have asked State Police officers who I personally know and they all came back with the same answer. Drive it. It's all a money racquet for the state or small town cops who think they are the greatest DOT officers. I carry the book with me in my console and as soon as someone says something about it, that book is coming out and I have the page photocopied to give the the nice officer.

I have looked at this post as well as other post from other sites with great interest. I have tried to weed through the FMCSA regulations many times myself and I carry a copy of the exemption page that states RV's are exempt as the Vehicle Reg's say but they have changed it from a year or so ago as it now says "recreational vehicles operating under their own power." So since I have a 48 Ft. Gooseneck that is titled and licensed as an Rv I'm going to keep my old copy in the truck. I'm lucky as I have the Class A CDL as I drive a school bus so all I think I would need would be the log book and if made to, the DOT but as General applicabilty Part 390.3 (f)( 3) states "f) Exceptions. Unless otherwise specifically provided, the rules in this subchapter do not apply to —(f)(3) The occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise;" I'll be carrying a copy of that along with my past year IRS documents. I tried to catch the Indiana DOT police as they were inspecting our busses to ask them their viewpoint but they were to busy and I don't like interrupting them. Ha! While I was looking up this info on the FMCSA site, I was asked to take a survey and I really (nicely) let them have it on not having the exemptions better defined and examples so we could carry something with us to show the DOT officers and implied that there is inconsistency in the interpretation by officers. Don't know if it will help, but can't hurt.
It is hard to beleive that we have come to having to carry our tax returns with us to prove that our property is ours and not a business to enjoy a hobby!
Thanks!
MFR426

look at your registration I also have a 05 dodge 3500 dually and on my registration it states gvw 26000 lbs gvw and I am here in fl.

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=11913


This same type of thread is going on in at least 5 different sites i know of .....

Mo money mo money for the states....until everybody sells their bigger rigs and the stiff fines and tag revenues go down....then they will have to come up with something else

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=11913

outlaw cant get that link to work not sure what that is but I just looked at my registration and its printed right on it gvw 26000

my registration is just like that but says 26000

thats your taged weight.. and its to low..

So right now I pay NY for 9600 for the Ram and 10000 for the 24' enclosed. I should be paying 19600 for the Ram AND I still need to pay 10000 for the trailer??? So I would be paying for 29600 pounds when I never would actually be more than 19600 pounds???

Here in Connecticut they will not let you register the vehicle for more weight then the GVW that the truck is rated for. They run the VIN number and it gives them a range (on my truck it came up as 8501-9000 pounds.) I tried to register it for 10,500 because everything over 10,000 GVW in Connecticut is exempt from emissions, but they wouldn’t let me do it because it was over the range. Guess there is no way I could legally tow anything into PA.
Lets look at this another way, say you have a 3500 truck that the GVW on the door sticker is 14,500 but you live in PA so you register is for 24,490 so you can tow your enclosed car trailer that is rated for 9990 pounds. Does that mean if you are not towing your trailer, that you can now legally load up the back of the truck until just the truck weighs 24,990 pounds? How could the friendly PA DOT officer give you a ticket for being overweight if the truck was legally registered for it?

Here is the FL law without all the gunk from my earlier post. It also has the staute # and the link to the page.

I will dig deeper into the tag issue, but I think it only matters for commercial, OR just about everyone that hooks to a trailer around here is illegal. I am not hooked up to my trailer full time like a semi would be, and I can't imagine that everyone with a truck over 8K GVW considers their boat/travel/whatever trailer when buying a tag.

26) "Commercial motor vehicle" means any vehicle which is not owned or operated by a governmental entity, which uses special fuel or motor fuel on the public highways, and which has a gross vehicle weight of 26,001 pounds or more, or has three or more axles regardless of weight, or is used in combination when the weight of such combination exceeds 26,001 pounds gross vehicle weight. A vehicle that occasionally transports personal property to and from a closed-course motorsport facility, as defined in s. 549.09(1)(a), is not a commercial motor vehicle if the use is not for profit and corporate sponsorship is not involved. As used in this subsection, the term "corporate sponsorship" means a payment, donation, gratuity, in-kind service, or other benefit provided to or derived by a person in relation to the underlying activity, other than the display of product or corporate names, logos, or other graphic information on the property being transported

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.c...H0320/Sec01.HTM

Wow, so here we have a cc comming up in Norwalk, and looks like we will lose money from the cc 131 rain date per the cc letter we received today!!! Now since I know that DOT is strict in OH, your saying there is a great possibility of getting pulled over, huge fine, possible impound. ......just cause it rained in MI and being forced to race or lose my moola!!
PS What is this world comming to???

Come and get me Cop'per !!!

My motorhome is over 26,000 pounds, and Virginia does not require a CDL for motorhomes. Reciprocity laws require other states to accept that part.

Now other states can enforce the law that says your registration card says you can't haul over X GCVW.

Pa needs $$$$$$.Just like thier toll on Interstate 80.They want to tax eceryone so they can rebuild Philly.Its going to cost billions.Its kinda like Calif anymore.Too bad its not on a fault line and near the ocean so it can drop into the sea someday.Rocky

Since CT won't let me register my Dodge 2500 over the truck rated GVW, how can I abide by Pa. laws? The next question I have is, I am planning to race in Virginia at VMP in late Sept. I will be driving through NY, NJ, Delaware,Maryland, Washington DC, and then Virginia using I-95, so do I have anything to worry about?

So my NY registration goes against PA's interpretation:

NYSDMV.com:
Gross Vehicle Weight/Combination Ratings
The Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) or Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of a commercial motor vehicle is established by a manufacturer or qualified rebuilder or alterer of a single motor vehicle when new. The GVWR is placed on a required placard located on the vehicle's left door frame or door. This GVWR represents the weight rating for the unloaded vehicle, plus the maximum load and/or 150 lbs for each passenger the vehicle was designed to carry. This is important because the manufacturer has designed the vehicle to have the power and structural integrity to carry the load and the braking performance to stop the loaded vehicle.

GVWR/GCWR are not used to determine weights on titles and registrations. However, the GVWR or GCWR of a commercial motor vehicle, not the registered MGW, is used to determine the class of driver license required to operate the vehicle. Therefore, amending the MGW on a commercial motor vehicle registration does not affect the type of license a driver needs in order to legally operate it.

So a tow vehicle that is titled, plated and/or registered as a motor home should not be hassled ?

I ask this for a Bud who has a TOTERhome. And I have a vehicle that is clearly a motor home. So someone like me should have zero problems ? .... just as long as my visable safety equipment is in order.

Maybe this is already in the thread, didn't read it all......

Y'all probably need a usdot number too. They are being real jerks about it here in Mi.

Do I need a DOT number

Ed

In South Carolina, they dont even tag or register trailers

Maybe all the states that require front and rear license plates should start ticketing all PA drivers for not having front plates.

There are only a couple of states that don't have reciprocity regarding DMV. So if your legal in your state your legal in theirs. But have ammunition to prove it

(the above is second hand info...so but sounds feasable)

Pennsylvania and North Carolina both have reciprocity.

Rickster

I just read this whole thread and man do I have a headache.
Driving the car to the track is starting to look better and better.

There's reciprocity, and then there's reciprocity.

Some states like OH may let you drive a rusted out pile of junk, but others won't. MD only requires that you get the car inspected when you buy it, and never again.

Some states require a non-CDL Class A license for a big motorhome like mine. VA doesn't have non-CDL Class A licenses, so it's impossible for me to get one. VA says a standard license is all I need.

Then there are states like NY that call a half ton pickup a commercial vehicle even if it's just a privately owned commuter vehicle not used for commercial purposes.

NY just changed the definition of commercial without contacting Websters.

Bob, one question: is the truck your own personal truck with private plates with no markings or were you using a company truck that is marked with a company name on it and commercial type plates? That may make a difference in the laws and what they were trying to enforce

According to Pa.Dot it doesn't matter wether your private,commercial,or other wize,you must be regestered for your Gross combination weight if you pull a licenced trailer and the combination weight exceedes the gross weight of your tow vehicle.IE: if you have a truck that has a GVW of 10,000lbs and are towing a trailer with the laden weight of i0,000lbs you should register yourtruck for a GCVW of 20,000lbs,Rembember also any trailer over 10,001lbs or any truck or truck and trailer exceeding 26,001lbs requires a CDL licence and a health card. Also you must have a statement from the mfg as to the max combo towing weight.IE: My Dodge 3500 is 12,200GVW with a max towing GCVW of 23,000.I can't register my truck any higher unless it is modified and certified to do so.It is all based on axles,tire contact patch,braking capabilities,and structual design.

Do you pay by weight to register your trailer in PA? In NY I pay more annual registration fees for my 10000 pound limit trailer than I do for my 7000 pound limit trailer.

How do I find out what my combined towing / load rating is? My door sticker has GVWR 8800#'s but I didn't see anything that showed towing. The glove box sticker said the rear axle is a 6500# rated Dana.

It is an 2001.5 2500 Cummins Ram with the camper package (4 wheel disc, extra load springs, and sway bars.)

I didn't see what would be the towing rating.

-Dave

Just checked again and it aint there.

Shows GAWR Front (4,410) and GAWR Rear (6,084) then has some tire info with pressures. That's it. Maybe there is another sticker somewhere????

-Dave

The overall load on the truck can not exceed the GVWR of the truck. So say the GVWR is 10,000 and the truck weighs 5,000. The load ON the truck can not exceed 5,000. But that is the actual load on the truck sitting still. So with a goose neck trailer that would mean that your ball weight. But make sure that you are under 26,000! The company truck and trailer by the numbers weighs in at 25,853! Now we couldn't have done that if we wtried to!

Wish we were getting somewhere with this thread, but we are not. I see this being a very long rocky road ahead, enough to make some/many just park it or or only run say within 20 miles of haome and take that chance.

Since this will effect every facet of grass roots racing and the racing hobby, wouldn't someone like SEMA that has some proven political clout step up to the plate to get the bigshots to at least simplify and standardize the requirements? I mean SEMA is the one in the end who will get hurt the most if we all give up and quit.

Anybody know anybody at SEMa to link this to?

I am also curious about the combined gross vehicle rating. I have a 2000 f350 dually and the only thing i see in the door is the gross vehicle weight rating also.

In Fla, when at the local tag agency, you just pick a weight, and pay the correct fee. The tag agency doesn't care or know enough to care.

This is one of the reasons I sold my triple axle tag. The way the rules read, a triple axle puts you into CDL territory no matter what.

If you have a pick-up truck and enclosed trailer with 2 axles, you should register your truck for the combined weight, carry a copy of that exemption, and that should cover you for all but the most Gonzo cop. My personal opinion is to not letter the trailer either, as it just attracts unwanted attention.

On the fuel transportation, my understanding is you are not required to placard your vehicle flammable unless you have more than 1,000 lbs of fuel. A 55 gallon drum is about half that, so most racers wouldn't be affected.

And don't placard your vehicle just to "cover yourself." Once you've opened that can of worms, you've just exposed yourself to all kinds of problems. Placards would likely make you an instant target for DOT enforcement.

This thread gives me a headache. So if I walk into a Dodge dealer and they sell me a truck that will tow 16,500lbs shouldn't I need a Cdl to drive it off the lot?

Only if you are going to use it for commercial purposes. As stated, 10,001 lbs. and over for commercial use, must abide by CDL laws.
26,001 and over combined wt.=CDL.

Just weigh your rig and see where it falls.


Chris

Thanks but I still have my Headache

Just weigh your rig and see where it falls.


Chris

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I'm going to have to do this... I never have