Driving the 37 and lost a wheel

So I'm driving the 37 today to Lowes for some paint, I'm I only doing 25-30 when the truck shudders like I hit a huge pot hole then the passenger front drops to the pavement, I steer it off to the right as tire and wheel passes me. I have the original front axle and drum brakes that uses bolts instread of wheel studs. And anybody pressed wheel studs into the older hub/drum assembly? I got lucky as other than a bent dust shield the only other damage was the tire that got a huge gash in it.

Stripped out these hole and original style wheel bolts

Well that sucks glad it was only minor damage. I bet there is a disc brake conversion that would have the new studs you need and better brakes. OK here's one for $625 plus shipping.

http://www.srpmstreetrods.com/srpm/1935-...20ac0259-p.html

I really don't want to upgrade the front brakes till I do the new motor and Mustsng II front end with rack and pinion steering. It looks like there is enough meat in the drum/hub (about 5/8 inch thickness) to install 1/2 inch studs. Looks like maybe B body studs might fit, I just need make sure the shoulder is not too long.

That sux, you wore it out hauling all that stuff for you new shop additions,

I got it fixed temporarily, new tire but I'm not going to drive it again till I get the wheel studs installed and different wheels, I hate these old mags. I got lucky, no suspension or body damage, just the tire

Repaired

If you were closer I would take those wheels..less tires, off your hands. (assuming they are 15"....they are still 'in' in Oz especially after a quick trip to the polisher)

And you can get studs with all various sized knurling on them of course, perhaps just drill out the drums/hubs to the minimum size to clean up the holes completely round and go from there for sizing? (Speedway sells studs and matching drill bits too from memory)

If they are 1/2" and the threads are still decent, other option would be just screw in studs perhaps as well like used on aftermarket type axles.

i have fixed the original bolt style hubs 2 different ways in the past. one: i used screw in studs [2 or 3" long depending on use] for aftermarket rear axles with the thin hex head or the allen style cap screw head. these were used with a drop or two of red or blue loctite. of course, the original threads were in perfect shape in the hub, plus they were both right hand thread hubs. second method was to fit for press in studs. carefully measure for the amount of thread needed for your wheel. if using thick center wheels, make sure the studs used have enough thread length to provide proper thread engagement with the nuts required for the wheels without bottoming out on the inside of the nut before the wheels torque to proper spec. if using open ended lugs, this isn't required to be looked at. next,measure the thickness of your hub or your hub/drum assembly. this will determine how long the stud knurl will need to be. make sure the knurl does not protrude more than about .010-.015" beyond the face of the assembly used because this could cause interference with the wheel sitting flat on the hub. flush, or below, is best for the knurl length. now you are ready to choose your studs. check aftermarket choices or look at the dorman catalog, and choose a stud that fits your requirements and has at least .015-.020 more diameter than your hole size in your hub[or hub/drum assembly]. for example, if you just drill out your hub threads to 1/2" to just remove the existing threads, you need a stud knurl diameter of .515" for proper press fit. if choosing other stud knurl diameters, open the stud holes to .015-.020 LESS than the knurl of your studs. this must be done on a drill press to insure your studs go in straight. next, remember to support your hub properly when the studs are pressed in to make sure, after all this, you don't bend your hub or hub/drum assembly. all this blabbing may sound like this is a major undertaking, but it is just a very simple job.
i'm glad no major damage other than a tire was caused, but i question the use of just straight bolts to secure your wheels to the hubs. i have never seen any brand of slot mag that had a 1/2" hole used with the proper nuts. they were either a shank style[most common was the 11/16" shank size] or an acorn[stock taper] style nut. if i remember, those used a 60* taper. i could be wrong, but i think you are looking at a very bad deal using straight bolts on those wheels even if you use a washer that fits inside the shank hole. just my opinion, but i think it would be best if you repair your hub/drum properly asap, or convert to disc brakes, which would be the best way to go. and before i close, if your drums are riveted to the hub, does your wheels have reliefs in them that the rivets fit into, or are the wheels just sitting on the rivet heads ? if so, that is very unsafe as well because the wheel will not have the proper support on the mounting flange, which can lead to cracking of the center. i bring this up because i have seen the results of this happen many years ago when a friend of mine bolted on a set of slot wheels on a 35 plymouth 4dr. sedan using just longer 1/2" bolts and sitting on the rivet heads. this resulted in the center breaking out of the wheel instead of just loosing it, causing damage to the front fender and running board. please get your setup fixed properly before your luck runs out !

Are those wheels even designed to work with that bolt set up? Usually they need the shaft of the mag style lug nut to center them and if the center hole is to large you are just relying one that small tapered end of the lug bolt to hold the wheel on.

The thanks for the info, the wheels and original bolts were on the truck since I bought it, it was always on my to do list the change them out, now I will. I had 5 of the original wheel bolts but only found 1 on the road afterwards. I put 5 longer straight bolts on just to hold the wheel in place so I could drive it onto my lift only.

I got some Weld Wheels that if the fit I'm going to use after I install wheel studs, if they don't fit them I'm going to find a set of steel Mopar cop car wheels, either way I'm fixing this right and getting rid of the mags

If they will fit I'm using these Weld Rodlites

Problem might be those rivets? in between the studs hitting the surface of the wheel..?

Good spotting, I will see if I can remove them after I install studs

The slots probably have open areas on the back (Most I have had around, have..) so it wasn't an issue. Same goes for a lot of steel wheels, where the centers are stamped out, they end up with ridges too (how the original ones probably cleared) but the Welds or something similar might be an issue.

You "might" get lucky though and have the 5 on 4 3/4" bolt pattern on the Welds line up with the rivets so it isn't an issue but looks like they are a little close in for that off the top of my head at least.

I'm glad everything turned out ok....that could have been bad news..

I'd get 1/2" thread wheel studs with larger then needed knurled ends, get the proper drill and have the new studs pressed in. I would probably install right hand thread studs on both sides. Then but the lug nuts that fit the wheels. Put some dust caps on those bearing hubs.

Sure seems like a lot of effort for something your going to dispose of in the near future, but its your money and your ride. I'd just do the disc brake conversion now. Gene

look close at the back side of the wheel. if there is a relief between the stud holes, you were probably sitting flat on the drum surface. if not, you will see shiny places or gouges where the rivet heads were touching. even if there were reliefs, if they weren't deep enough, you will see the same. in your last two pics above, it appears there seems to be metal transfer [aluminum] on the rivet heads, indicating the wheels are touching the rivets instead of the drum surface. look also at the holes in the wheels. i will bet there is "mashing" of the hole at the front face where the taper of the stock lugs gouged a somewhat taper into the lug nut holes. in order for those wheels to be used with the correct nuts now, the holes will have to be reamed to the correct size to remove the "mashed in" area of the holes at the top surface area. the back side of the wheels may also need attention if the rivets caused severe gouging of the mounting surface. if it is severe enough, it will require the wheel to be chucked in a lathe or bridgeport to insure a flat surface be restored. what rear do you have installed ? if stock [i can't remember], the lug bolts will also need to be changed to the proper studs as well as the drum rivet problem addressed. i hate to sound like i am picking on you,[please don't take it that way,i am not by any stretch of the imagination] but this is a SAFETY issue that affects you and others, as well as the damage it could cause to your truck. you indicate a disc conversion is in your future. now is the time to do so. i assure you, you will be time and money ahead to do so now !

Truck won't go back on the road till its 100% safe

And you or anybody else didn't get hurt! Glad to see everything and everyone is okay. Love those trucks!!

Ok, I got the front drums/hubs off. Looks like the 2 are just riveted together. Looks like there is plenty of meat to install wheel studs. I know this needs to be pretty exact so should I have a machine shop drill and press in the studs?

New wheels for the rear arrived, I got 15x8 with a 4.5 inch backspaceing. I have some Cooper Cobra 255/60/15s coming, I'm using 15x7 in the front with 235/60/15s

Looking at the pictures, I believe your original failure was caused by using the wrong wheels.

The slots you appear to be setup to run a short shank nut. Your wheel bolts are conical seats. They are not compatible and it does not appear your new rims are compatible either.

Do you plan to convert all 4 corners to studs? I hope so.

To be honest, the drum setup on a 37 isn't worth the price of studs. Non self energizing drum brakes are terrible. I know you aren't planning on it right now, but I wouldn't invest in studding out the original drums myself, I'd just go with modern brakes all around.

The rear is already studs as it is a 8 inch Ford rear end out of what appears to be a Torino by its width. I'm not changing the Front brakes out at this time, I'm just putting in the studs in and the Weld Rodlites getting rid of these old mags. This truck with the brakes it has stops just fine for as little as I drive it.

one thing that is absolutely mandatory is you MUST make sure the drum retaining rivets allow the wheels of choice to fit flat on the drum mating surface. the factory wheels had a relief on the back side to allow this. a close up pic of your new wheels will tell if they will work on the drums.[personally, i don't think they will because even though they have multiple bolt patterns, the unused holes might not be large enough, or in the right place, to fit completely over the rivets] if not, you have two choices. spacers that are thick enough to go slightly above the rivet heads, or swap to modern style brakes as have been already suggested.

The plan is to remove the rivets after the studs are pressed in, the rivets are not needed after it has studs

OK, didn't realize, or most likely I forgot, you had the 8.8 in there, at least those brakes are modern.

Just a thought...instead of drilling them out now for studs (which is fine in itself of course IMO), if the threads in them are 1/2" already..why not just use screw in studs from the rear like the style used on rear axles and commonly sold? Might save a step and some time at least...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msr-8002/overview/

There are plenty of different brands out there, but those as an example at least.

Some of the threads have partial stripping out, I'm a little afraid there might not be enough thread to grab them, maybe if I used some Loctite

If the threads are damaged on some of them, then drilling and using pressed in studs may be a better option. I just thought if the threads were fine going with a screw in one would save a bunch of work and time.

Those things said..another issue to think about that just came to mind, since they were originally made to have the wheel bolts and nothing would ever haved to seat against the back of the hub/drum.. the flat face on the back side you can see in the picture.. if you did drill them out and use a press in stud, you need to make sure the face of the hub is perpendicular to the hole. If not when you press the stud in, it might tend to want to tilt somewhat to make the head sit flush against the hub. Depending on how thick the area is the knurling will have to hold it straight.

I think, with the question of the condition of some of the existing holes, I would have a machine shop drill, or re-size the holes and install the studs. It would suck to go through the effort to install them yourself and discover one of the holes isn't centered because the threads were wore on one side of the hole and not the other, and the hole was drilled off center and now the new stud is off center.

Another thought might be to hane the machine shop relocate the new studs to the current locations of the rivets. The would solve the stud hole and the rivet issue at the same time. Gene

Ok guys, after cleaning out the treads in the drums with a tap I decided to use bolts as a stud instead of pressed in studs. I went out and got 10 1.5 inch grade 8 bolts and ran them in from the backside with red Loctite. I also removed the rivets so the drum and hub is 2 separate pieces.

Completed project

New wheels/tires, 15x7 with 235/60 on the front, 15x8 with 255/60 on the rear, the wheels are Weld Rodlites

More pics

The 15x8 wheels with 4.5 inch back spacing really tuck the rear tires in, the is about 1/2 an inch between the inner sidewall and bed.

Looks good!

You used the correct style lug nuts to get the right thread engagement and seat to the wheels (with washers) and all too of course can assume?

Yes, I used the long 1 3/8 shank lugs and correct washers, tons of thread engagement

Good deal !


(Figured so..)

PS, not sure if it bothers you or not, but you can get little snap in chrome caps to fill the extra 5 holes from the 5 on 4 3/4" bolt pattern too..

Where do I get those at?

http://www.summitracing.com/search?SortB...401095%2B400330

wasn't so bad after all was it ? i can assume you rotated the assembly after installation to make sure nothing [the bolt head] hit internally ? the bolt heads shouldn't have been any higher than the rivet heads, but you never know. check the bolts aren't backing out the next couple of times you have the tire/wheel off for what ever reason just to make sure. enjoy your new wheel combo ! [looks good by the way ! ] the old slots may be salvageable by using a reamer of the correct size to fit the shank style lugs that were intended for them, or someone could make them into a "10 bolt"[4 3/4" GM pattern] wheel.now continue to use the truck to haul materials for your shop renovation ! keep us up to date on that project too !

e

No rotating issues with the bolt heads, the shouldn't back out, I used red Loctite on them before torquing them down

Excellent.

Better pics of the new wheels taken today

$1.79 ? That's no fair..

About .20 less around here

About an additional .20 less here. Filled up the challenger with 91 octane for $26.00.

$2.50 - $2.70 here for the cheap stuff..

$1.31- 87 $1.61 here for 91

So half the price....great...