Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application?

Posted By: domingo

Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 04:41 PM

I know that when you are running very high HP application you would probably upgrade to a 9,5" ulta case,,,,but then you can only run a spool and soft gears.....

But when building a super high HP turbo or procharged car for the street, what should you use?

what kind of rear ends are the guys on drag week using?

I wonder if anybody is using a Dana 70 with a locker in a high horsepower application where you dont want soft gears....and where you dont want to use a spool...

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 04:56 PM

dana 60 here. i have a 70, but the case is ridiculously huge. i think they use the same gears? i'd go with a d 60. i have a spool, btw. i didn't want to worry about breaking any kind of a posi.

Posted By: domingo

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 05:03 PM

The gears are bigger on a 70.

In a high HP application the Dana 60 gears would be the weak link.

I dont know how much more would a Dana 70 weight....50lbs?? I dont think thats too much specially if its on the rear end...

I wonder how much HP would a Dana 70 Detroit Locker take. It would be the same as a 60 for sure....so how much can it take???

Im asking this because I wonder what could hold behind a pro charged pump gas HEMI making 1600 hp- or 2000hp on pump gas and a pro charger I dont know if thats even possible...

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 05:12 PM

an aftermarket dana 60 with 40 spline axles and 5/8 studs could take 2000 hp, i'm guessing.

Posted By: dogdays

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 05:13 PM

Why bother? My friend goes low 8s with a D60.
I see a few misconceptions in your post.
First, availability of gears. By "soft" I am assuming you mean 9310 gears. The Dana 60 is a truck rear end which was adapted by ChryCo for its ultra-high performance cars. In trucks you can get ratios from 3.54 through at least 4.88 in "regular" steel.
Second, it's not like the 9310 gears are just going to roll over and die. Three factors you can control are type of lubricant, mileage and driving habits. I personally don't believe you are going to drive this car enough to wear out a set of 9310 gears.
Third, on to the selection of limited slips. If you can't find a limited slip differential for a Dana 60 you haven't been looking hard enough. Chrysler used both the four pinion PowrLock and the two pinion TracLock. I'm sure there is a Detroit Locker for one. There are others, too.

The 9.5" ring gear of the 60 isn't the same as the 10.5" ring gear of the D70. As heavy as the D60 is, the D70 outweighs it and it's physically larger as well.

Email www.Doctordiff.com and get his input.

R.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 05:36 PM

Quote:

an aftermarket dana 60 with 40 spline axles and 5/8 studs could take 2000 hp, i'm guessing.

I bet Not

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 05:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

an aftermarket dana 60 with 40 spline axles and 5/8 studs could take 2000 hp, i'm guessing.

I bet Not

trolled!

a d60 would take that easily. i believe we're talking a turbo car, yes? yes?

Posted By: domingo

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 07:36 PM

Quote:

Why bother? My friend goes low 8s with a D60.
I see a few misconceptions in your post.
First, availability of gears. By "soft" I am assuming you mean 9310 gears. The Dana 60 is a truck rear end which was adapted by ChryCo for its ultra-high performance cars. In trucks you can get ratios from 3.54 through at least 4.88 in "regular" steel.
Second, it's not like the 9310 gears are just going to roll over and die. Three factors you can control are type of lubricant, mileage and driving habits. I personally don't believe you are going to drive this car enough to wear out a set of 9310 gears.
Third, on to the selection of limited slips. If you can't find a limited slip differential for a Dana 60 you haven't been looking hard enough. Chrysler used both the four pinion PowrLock and the two pinion TracLock. I'm sure there is a Detroit Locker for one. There are others, too.

The 9.5" ring gear of the 60 isn't the same as the 10.5" ring gear of the D70. As heavy as the D60 is, the D70 outweighs it and it's physically larger as well.

Email www.Doctordiff.com and get his input.

R.

Well, yes Im sure the soft gears wont get eaten up instantly on the street, and being a hight output pro charged engine, I guess you would not want regular street grears as well because when you do get it down the sttrip they might shatter....but anyway...thats not the main question here....

Yes I know you can get limited slip diffs for Dana 60s....but that is not the concern here....

the thing is that the ring and pinion on the Dana 60 are dimensionally smaller than the ones on the Dana 70, thus making them weaker. Also the axles are smaller diameter. A Dana 70 would weigh more of course, but how much more??? 50lbs??? If its only 50lbs I dont think its a bad trade if it will take 2000 HP. Also, on a Dana 70 you can still get a Detroit Locker for it. The question here is, would the Detroit Locker become the weak link here? And how much can a Detroit Locker take? Remember this would be for a brute street pump gas car, where a spool (even though stronger for sure) isnt as streetable.

Also the Dana60 is not a 9,5" ring dimater...it is 9,75" and has a pinion diameter of 1,625".....the Dana 70 is a 10,5" ring gear and has a pinion diameter of 1,75"....so it is much stronger for sure.

The 9,5" I was reffering to was something like a Strange Engineering Ultra case with 9,5" gears and a fab housing. Downside is, soft gears and a spool would be my only choices here, not what you would call 100% streetable...and I wonder if it will take 2000 hp.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 07:58 PM

You're talking about building a 2000 hp "street car" and you're worried about a spool not making it streetable?

Posted By: 9secondsatellite

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 08:00 PM

i believe the weight of your car should be addressed as well. 50lbs more on the rear end equates to a lot more parasitic loss then you think. that's 50lbs more to be turned and not pushed. big difference. i would prefer to go with a spool with that much hp but i guess it would depend on your interpretation of "streetable". i don't mind a spool on the street but i don't put that much street time on my car. i prefer more bullet proof when it comes to the track and worry about it's street manners later. it depends on what side of the coin you prefer.

Posted By: domingo

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 08:03 PM

hahahaha

yes.

I dont know if I will ever build a 2000 hp street car....

but I do have a HEMI at Best Machine waiting to be built. And I want to put a pro charger and intercooler on it.

So I figure, 540 cid HEMI, pump gas, ported stage V heads, ray barton rockers, pro charger, billet crank, oliver rods...Im thinking 1200 hp minimum....1500 hp easy....

2000 hp....a stretch??? I dont know....

so Im thnking about what would it take to have a rear end thats built up to snuff and that can be driven on the street. Kinda like Drag Week.

What about the transmission....could a powerglide work here?

Posted By: dragram440

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 08:16 PM

A good friend of mine runs a camero street car makes over 1000 to the wheels with a 9" with no problems. Another friend has a 70 chevelle 540" with big twins made 1470 H.p. to the wheels at sema, Full street trim including full interior, exhaust and mud flaps. car weighs 4000lbs and best run of 8.40's @169 mph. 9" ford lasted 3 years until it twisted the pinion off trying to beat his 8.40 pass he ran earlier in the day.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 08:26 PM

I wasn't saying your engine couldn't make 2000 hp, I just think it's funny that you think a spool will make a difference in how a 2000 hp car acts on the street.
For your application, I think a well built Dana 60 or 9" Ford will do the job. I personally wouldn't mess w/ the 70, but that's just my

.
A spool should be mandatory in my opinion. A GOOD powerglide would be my choice as well.

Posted By: domingo

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 08:39 PM

Quote:

I wasn't saying your engine couldn't make 2000 hp, I just think it's funny that you think a spool will make a difference in how a 2000 hp car acts on the street.
For your application, I think a well built Dana 60 or 9" Ford will do the job. I personally wouldn't mess w/ the 70, but that's just my .
A spool should be mandatory in my opinion. A GOOD powerglide would be my choice as well.

I didnt take it that way!!!!

....its just that I have that engine, and its gonna get built eventually, and I dont think it will be anything lower thatn 1200, probably around 1500...I dont know if more, Im not familiar with those builds yet!!!

And yes, I know that its quite a stretch to say that a 1500 hp car is a street car....of course, its pretty stupid!!! LOL!!! who needs that on the street!!! but heck yes Id like to drive such and animal on the streeet, and drive to the track, and have minimal issues....nobody wants to build something like that to have it break down on the way to the track, or to look ridiculous driving it on the street.....its like shoehorning a bathing suit 3 sizes smaller than your actual size and then going to the beach saying "hey it fits" LOL and feel proud about it.....so the more reliable it is, and the more "street friendly" the better. I mean it would be great if I could have a detroit locker and not a spool....but if it cant be had, then it just cant! thats why im asking.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 09:08 PM

Mine makes somewhere in the neighborhood of 850 hp and it's a handful on the street to say the least. Having to pedal the throttle at 70 mph to keep the back tires glued while putting lengths on street bikes is fun though, lol. Honestly, I think the car was a little more fun on the street when it made about 625 hp. It'd kill tires, but it wasn't like driving on ice all the time. I couldn't imagine having 1000+ hp out on the street.

You're gonna need a spool from a strength standpoint. They drive straighter at WOT too.

Posted By: domingo

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/01/11 09:18 PM

Yeps....

I know what you mean.....

Thanks for the advice, and yes....you are right, a spool is mandatory.

Still, I wonder what rear ends are the guys on drag week using...what about transmissions? They gotta have gear vendors too...right?

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/02/11 12:11 AM

realistically it won't matter what rear you run on the street. i ran a 7.25 on the street with a 440 and narrow tires for quite a while. it never did blow. four digit power is going to be an exercise in frustration. your tires won't stand a chance.

Posted By: hemicop

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/02/11 12:33 AM

If it were me, a D60 with 40 or 44-spline axles & a spool, driven CAREFULLY with a well built PG (Rossler, TCS, Brunos, etc.) budgeting 5500-10k for a trans would be what I'd expect to pay for a driveline. Keep in mind, though that early F/Cs ran TFs & D60s & were making the kind of horsepower, and more, you're talking about & they lived pretty well. The top SS/AH guys are running in the 900hp area & they're just using a built TF, so I think you're over-building & over thinking your project.
For what it's worth, Car CRaft Magizine's old M/P car run by then-editor John Dianna had a D70 in it, so I guess it IS do-ablebut with today's engineering technology, cryogenics for examle, why would you adhere to the old "bigger is better" theory?

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/02/11 01:18 AM

Quote:

realistically it won't matter what rear you run on the street. i ran a 7.25 on the street with a 440 and narrow tires for quite a while. it never did blow. four digit power is going to be an exercise in frustration. your tires won't stand a chance.

Thats the main factor.... like he believes it will
hook on the street... I'm sure it would live with
8 3/4 because it wont hook... grand idea though

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/02/11 01:27 AM

Quote:

Quote:

realistically it won't matter what rear you run on the street. i ran a 7.25 on the street with a 440 and narrow tires for quite a while. it never did blow. four digit power is going to be an exercise in frustration. your tires won't stand a chance.

Thats the main factor.... like he believes it will
hook on the street... I'm sure it would live with
8 3/4 because it wont hook... grand idea though

yup!

Posted By: domingo

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/02/11 02:07 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

realistically it won't matter what rear you run on the street. i ran a 7.25 on the street with a 440 and narrow tires for quite a while. it never did blow. four digit power is going to be an exercise in frustration. your tires won't stand a chance.

Thats the main factor.... like he believes it will
hook on the street... I'm sure it would live with
8 3/4 because it wont hook... grand idea though

yup!

I dont believe it will hook on the street, nor I pretend to use that much power on the street. Im not that dumb!

This car is to be used at the track, at its full potential...and I dont want it to break and risk causing damage to myself, other drivers or the car itself, however, Id love to get to the track driving the car....or driving it to the local burger joint eventually....and filling it up at the pump with92 octane before racing....have rolling windows with factory glass, not lexan, have full working lights and blowing the doors off the cars that get there trailered and only run race gas....

why? because I want to!!! and because I think its possible...

Posted By: WHITEDART

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/02/11 02:20 AM

9 in ford done

Posted By: domingo

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/02/11 02:24 AM

Quote:

If it were me, a D60 with 40 or 44-spline axles & a spool, driven CAREFULLY with a well built PG (Rossler, TCS, Brunos, etc.) budgeting 5500-10k for a trans would be what I'd expect to pay for a driveline. Keep in mind, though that early F/Cs ran TFs & D60s & were making the kind of horsepower, and more, you're talking about & they lived pretty well. The top SS/AH guys are running in the 900hp area & they're just using a built TF, so I think you're over-building & over thinking your project.
For what it's worth, Car CRaft Magizine's old M/P car run by then-editor John Dianna had a D70 in it, so I guess it IS do-ablebut with today's engineering technology, cryogenics for examle, why would you adhere to the old "bigger is better" theory?

I think a super case with a spool and 9,5" gears is what I would need!

I already have a Mark Williams 9" in my race car with 35 spline strange axles and a spoolI dont have 40 spline axles because my housing is the smalled diameter one......I wonder if the 9,5 super case will just fit on the housing I have now...which is a modified and braced regular 9" housing.

Posted By: blownEFI

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/02/11 02:42 AM

How much does the car weigh?

Three things kill driveline parts: weight, torque, and traction! Since we're talking probably big displacement turbo motor you're going to have lots of torque. If your car is heavy and you put slicks (or drag radials) on it and launch it on a well prepared surface then you're going to find the limits of your driveline.

Given that kind of scenario I would say a Dana 60 might be marginal. The detroit locker is pretty strong, but I'd be more concerned about twisting the axle tubes. Aftermarket Dana's are welded 360 degrees, but if your tubes are long enough you can still bow them because it's pretty hard to back-brace a Dana. Also, you can't run 40 spline axles with a Detroit Locker, max is 35 splines. Still I think the weak link would be the housing/tubes.

If it were me I would build a 9 inch ford, fabricated housing with integrated back-brace. That along with 35 spline axles and the locker would probably be fine.

And, yes several of the quick cars on Drag Week run Gear Vendors overdrive, so that thing is pretty solid.

Here's an example of such a rear end built for a heavy turbo street car with leaf spring rear suspension (note the notches in the back brace for the shocks). This car has a 588 c.i. wedge with 106mm turbo, built TH400 and Gear Vendors.

Posted By: astjp2

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/02/11 03:59 AM

I will bet anyone on here $100.00 that you can fit dana 70 gears in a 60 housing with some special maneuvering. The combination I am talking about can take about 8000ftlbs of instantaneous torque, a stock one is good for around 6000ftlbs. Tim

Posted By: mopar65

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/02/11 04:20 AM

Quote:

I will bet anyone on here $100.00 that you can fit dana 70 gears in a 60 housing with some special maneuvering. The combination I am talking about can take about 8000ftlbs of instantaneous torque, a stock one is good for around 6000ftlbs. Tim

you mean like this.
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=914583
i will pm you address wear to send the money.lol mopar65

Posted By: dOc !

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/02/11 05:25 AM

...D70 with 4.10 gears HERE .... was going to use it in my Disco .. but along came a 3.73 ....

PM me.

Posted By: HOTMOPR

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/02/11 06:42 AM

I picked up a dana 70 out of a 96 dodge 3/4 ton for free and its perfect! It is one heavy sumbitch! I am going to narrow it with dana 60 ends. I found Randys ring and pimion sells a spool for it. Factory 3.54 gears should be about right..

Posted By: astjp2

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/02/11 07:09 AM

I have a 60 clearanced for the 3.55 dana 70 power lock. I am using the ford big bearings and explorer disc setup. Just ran out of funds to get the bearings and shafts. Tim

Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/04/11 01:03 AM

A Strange Ultra case with 9.5" big pinion pro gear, 40 spline spool and fab housing would the the easy way. It all depends on how "streetable" the car is, how you drive the car and how hard the car hooks up, however.

A 40 spline Detroit Locker is available for a Dana 60, but NOT for a 9".

I don't know if a 40 spline Detroit Locker is available for a Dana 70, but knowing the internals interchange between the 2 carriers, it shouldn't be too hard to build.

Someone is about to release a third-member and Fab housing that takes Dana 60 or 70 gears for the 4 x 4 market.

A Dana 70 third-member with 40 spline axles and Detroit Locker would be the ultimate rearend for a super high torque street car.

Here is a teaser:

http://www.4xfanatics.com/forums/content.php?56-Sixty9-axle

Posted By: astjp2

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/04/11 02:54 AM

The dana 70 detroit locker comes in 35 spline. The shaft size makes up for the spline count.

Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/04/11 04:49 AM

Both Dana 60 and Dana 70 carriers are available with the same 35 spline internals.

A 40 spline Detroit Locker is also available for a Dana 60.

40 spline axle shafts are larger in diameter than the 35 spline version.

Posted By: domingo

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street application? - 12/04/11 06:01 PM

Quote:

A Strange Ultra case with 9.5" big pinion pro gear, 40 spline spool and fab housing would the the easy way. It all depends on how "streetable" the car is, how you drive the car and how hard the car hooks up, however.

A 40 spline Detroit Locker is available for a Dana 60, but NOT for a 9".

I don't know if a 40 spline Detroit Locker is available for a Dana 70, but knowing the internals interchange between the 2 carriers, it shouldn't be too hard to build.

Someone is about to release a third-member and Fab housing that takes Dana 60 or 70 gears for the 4 x 4 market.

A Dana 70 third-member with 40 spline axles and Detroit Locker would be the ultimate rearend for a super high torque street car.

Here is a teaser:

http://www.4xfanatics.com/forums/content.php?56-Sixty9-axle

Thats what Im talking about!

The only question is: what are the limits of the detroit locker???

Also with a Dana 70 on a third member, you can have a back braced fabbed housing!!! cool!!!

Posted By: toplescuda

Re: Is NE1 running a Dana 70 in a hi HP street applicat - 12/05/11 07:31 AM

I got a dana 70 out of a ton 1/2 camper thinking it was a 60 paid 35 bucks for it has 4.56 gear
was planing on having it cut down for the cuda but everyone said normal 60 parts wont work. Can this rear be converted or not cause its one step away from being hauled off for scrap