Std. Volume Oil Pump or High Volume?

Posted By: Chargerfan68

Std. Volume Oil Pump or High Volume? - 10/27/11 06:02 AM

I am building a 383 stock stroke engine to be used with Edelbrock Rpm heads and 10.2:1 with the MP 509 stick.

I just checked the Main clearances and they are between .0027-.0029". I haven't done the rods yet.

If the rods are similar clearances, should I run the High Volume Pump or the standard volume?? My machinist said if the clearances come out to .0015 - .0025", then I should use the std volume. If they come out to .003 - .0035", use a high volume pump. This is in the middle of those ranges.

What do you all suggest. If I go with the high volume, I would go with the 6 qt. pan and pickup...if it is the std. pump, then standard 5 quart pan.

Thanks for any input,
Greg

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Std. Volume Oil Pump or High Volume? - 10/27/11 07:02 AM

Use both the bigger oil pan, correct pickup and high volume pump, cut the bypass spring to set the oil pressure to 10 lbs per thousand RPM, IE 6500 RPM = 65 lbs hot

I would and do use a cranksahft scraper, you can make your own

I shoot for .030 to .060 clearances between the scraper and any rotating part, closer is better than looser

Posted By: dynamite

Re: Std. Volume Oil Pump or High Volume? - 10/28/11 05:46 PM

I use the high pressure pump on all my motors not the high volume pump

Attached picture 6892424-larryscar005.JPG

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/28/11 05:57 PM

How do you intend to use this car?

What weight oil will you be running?

Wait and see where those rod journals end up.

So far i see no reason to run either hi volume or high pressure, until we get a few more answers.

I WOULD run the 6 qt Hemi pan regardless

Posted By: 440Jim

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/28/11 07:24 PM

Quote:

How do you intend to use this car?

What weight oil will you be running?

Wait and see where those rod journals end up.

So far i see no reason to run either hi volume or high pressure, until we get a few more answers.

I WOULD run the 6 qt Hemi pan regardless

And I couldn't have said it better.
Things for a high volume pump:
- larger bearing clearances
- full groove main bearings
- street driving (hotter oil, >180F)
- low idle speeds (800 rpm)

Things for a std volume pump:
- smaller bearing clearances
- drag race only (oil never gets hot, <180F)
- high idle speed (1200 rpm)

I have run both in my drag only engine. I used a relief spring to give me 70 psi going down the track. IMO, 50-70 is fine (>2000 rpm) and I like idle no lower than 20 psi, but that is just my preference.

Posted By: RemCharger

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/28/11 07:37 PM

Jim's the man.
I researched the tech info, and with Jim's high level of R&D, I went with a std vol. pump and put the spring out of my old pump(hp) in my 383. Even with the non restricted 440-1s the pressure stays at 55-60 , and drops to 45ish hot,hot idled down (900?). This was with generic 15/40 diesel oil.

I also run a BIG pan and crank scraper, stock pickup, 7000+ rpm.

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/29/11 12:01 AM

for up to around 7000 I generally prefer to run a ported stock pump opening up the suction and discharge lines to 1/2" or 17/32", a nice chamfer on the right angle turn in the inlet passage of the pump head increases the available flow significantly and reduces the pressure drop across the sharp turn, these mods result in a less obstructed, smoother oil delivery to the discharge side....even with the stock size rotor.
I've been doing this mod on BB/Hemis for nearly 30 yrs.

I never understood the point in running a 1/2" sump pick up and leaving the standard 3/8"-ish pump inlet passages (and it's the same casting/piece for both a std and HV pump) alone.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/29/11 12:45 AM

Quote:

I never understood the point in running a 1/2" sump pick up and leaving the standard 3/8"-ish pump inlet passages (and it's the same casting/piece for both a std and HV pump) alone.

So running a dual line external pickup must really have you scratching your head !!!!!

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/29/11 03:28 AM

Uhhh.... An external feed Bb pump allows you a straight shot feed to the pump and eliminates the 90 degree dog leg (in the pump head casting), that's one of the benefits of running one

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/29/11 03:36 AM

Quote:

Uhhh.... An external feed Bb pump allows you a straight shot feed to the pump and eliminates the 90 degree dog leg, that's one of the benefits of running one

Most of the Milidon external dual line systems I have seen have 90 degree elbows coming out of the swinging picksup

I like to use straight AN bulkhead fittings in the pan and 90 degree female elbow fittings on the hoses

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/29/11 05:01 AM

Cab that's true, no way around that but it's still less total bends than the near 90 straight up to the pick up boss in the block and then the 90 from the block through the pump head.
My point was any time you can reduce the inlet restriction providing supply/flow to the pump it allows the pump to work a bit more efficiently, especially at higher flow rates/rpm.

The factory 90 in the pump inlet is pretty severe, that's all I was pointing out.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/29/11 07:09 AM

Quote:

Cab that's true, no way around that but it's still less total bends than the near 90 straight up to the pick up boss in the block and then the 90 from the block through the pump head.
My point was any time you can reduce the inlet restriction providing supply/flow to the pump it allows the pump to work a bit more efficiently, especially at higher flow rates/rpm.

The factory 90 in the pump inlet is pretty severe, that's all I was pointing out.

I wanted to point out to those that don't know the Milidon external oiling systems that they are far from perfect also

I'm thinking a external pump with a dry sump is the way to go, if you can

Not for those that are faint of money

Posted By: RemCharger

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/29/11 07:20 AM

remember he's asking about a stock 383 with edelbrocks........

Posted By: 5126brl No more

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/29/11 05:21 PM

Just drove the car to the shop to put away before snow.
80 psi oil at 170 degrees 2500 rpm, 15-40 oil and hv pump. I think I may add a milodon adjustable spring kit this winter,

Posted By: Chargerfan68

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/29/11 07:08 PM

Thanks for all the replies, guys. This is a street only motor, but the guy that owns it is a maniac on the street. It will definitely see about 6500 rpms and will be driven hard its entire life. It is a stick.
This guy owns a gas station and did 360's around his gas pumps.

The rod clearances just came out to .00265". I do intent to install the 6 quart pan on it for him. I just need to figure out the pump design and oil weight.

Thanks again.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/29/11 07:39 PM

Quote:

The rod clearances just came out to .0265". I do intent to install the 6 quart pan on it for him. I just need to figure out the pump design and oil weight.

Thanks again.

High volume, cut the bypass spring (1 to 1 1/2 coil)to get 70 lbs hot above 5000 RPM with 15W40 WT

Posted By: Performance Only

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/29/11 08:29 PM

Quote:

The rod clearances just came out to .0265". I do intent to install the 6 quart pan on it for him. I just need to figure out the pump design and oil weight.

Thanks again.

it's going to take a lot of pump to keep those rods from knocking with the clearance you listed.

you guys worry way too much about which pump to use. are you afraid you might have a little more pressure with the HV pump and lose a horsepower or two? is the standard pump really the right pump if you haven't done the standard oiling modifications to the block?

Posted By: Chargerfan68

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/29/11 10:28 PM

I get the general consensus that the high vol. pump is the way to go with this setup. Thanks for the info.

Posted By: RemCharger

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/30/11 06:54 AM

Dan was laughing at your last post, 26 thou rod clearance ....

Posted By: Performance Only

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/30/11 12:21 PM

Quote:

Dan was laughing at your last post, 26 thou rod clearance ....

sort of. but i was also wondering where the extra 5 at the end came from if he just missed adding the 0 in the beginning. that would make it .00265". how many bore guages read to the millionth?

it's a wierd typo.

Posted By: RemCharger

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/30/11 05:02 PM

Maybe side clearance? Or hes just that good.

Posted By: Performance Only

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/30/11 05:05 PM

Quote:

Maybe side clearance? Or hes just that good.

Yeah, that must be it.

Posted By: Chargerfan68

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/30/11 06:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe side clearance? Or hes just that good.

Yeah, that must be it.

I wish I was that good, but obviously it was a typo. The correct number was .0026" . I don't know where the 5 came from. Just a brain fart.

Thanks.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 10/30/11 11:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe side clearance? Or hes just that good.

Yeah, that must be it.

I wish I was that good, but obviously it was a typo. The correct number was .0026" . I don't know where the 5 came from. Just a brain fart.

Thanks.

If a guy doesn't have a brain fart now and then his head constantly is full of gas

My Hi Po street motors usually ended up with similar rod bearing clearances,I usually ended up with more than that

My current pump gas 518 low deck stroker has .003 + on the rods and mains

Works good, has lasted a long time so far

Posted By: Chargerfan68

Re: qqRe: Std. Volume Oil Puimp or High Volume? - 11/01/11 11:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe side clearance? Or hes just that good.

Yeah, that must be it.

I wish I was that good, but obviously it was a typo. The correct number was .0026" . I don't know where the 5 came from. Just a brain fart.

Thanks.

If a guy doesn't have a brain fart now and then his head constantly is full of gas My Hi Po street motors usually ended up with similar rod bearing clearances,I usually ended up with more than that My current pump gas 518 low deck stroker has .003 + on the rods and mains Works good, has lasted a long time so far

Thanks very much Cab. With the clearances in this engine, I think you are giving very valid advice. Sometimes I just need to double check myself.

Thanks to everyone also for their help.

Greg.