Moparts
OK 3th try with the E-85- update 10-14-11
Posted By: VernMotor
OK 3th try with the E-85- update 10-14-11 - 09/25/11 08:12 PM
So like to hear some input here about the set up.
I have try to run this 2 times now. once 1/8. once 1/4 mile. Carry good fuel pressure all the way though the 1/4 mile. Had all kind of dumb things go wrong with this carb. from wrong set up to needle&seats leaking to strip out bowl screws. idle circuit plug up. strip out squirter screws.. accelerator pumps not working. I think I got everything fixed. little about the car first. 3600lbs- footbrake-30 over 440- eddy heads-590MP cam- cars runs 11.0s 1/4 mile 6.90 1/8 mile. I have had a Q/F 850 on it for years Done very well with it. This carb is a 950HP build by well know carb builder with e-85 carbs .I bought it second hand.Right now it has 84-94 jets and a 4.5 power valve in front. 30cc pumps with pink cams and 45 squirters. Might be a tad rich at idle ..might just be me not use to it. sits and idles great. have to idle it down to 900 rpms to get the idle fuel mixter screws to do anything ? but they do work. about 1200 rpms they don't seem to do anything. has IAB .067 and HSB .028. So does this sounds close ??
Posted By: Guitar Jones
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 08:22 PM
So is there a problem you are trying to fix?
Posted By: RBDuster
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 08:51 PM
Try 55 on the IAB and 26 on the HSB. Also lock out the distributor. Had same issues from a known builder. Made the above changes and got the carb to at least work. I will be seeing what size the air bleed restriction is next.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 09:07 PM
IFR .042
Jones just wonder if I should be albe to ajust the Idle mixer screws at 1200 rpms ? I thought I should ? and if the jetting and air bleeds was close ?
Posted By: emarine01
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 09:17 PM
I thought that E85 required around 30% more jet than gas, I have run 91 square on my 414 @ 1000 cfm with good results
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 09:24 PM
Yes 30% is what they say. My gas carb is jet'ed at 73-78
Posted By: emarine01
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 09:38 PM
Whats the largest cfm/jet combo you tried on gas?
Posted By: sshemi
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 09:43 PM
my guess is that fuel starts to come through the boosters at 1300 rpms thats why the mix screws do VERY little change.
Really not a prblem but if its a street car it can be difficult to get the mix perfect throuout the circuits.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 09:50 PM
Quote:
Whats the largest cfm/jet combo you tried on gas?
I have had my 850 Q/F up to 78-86.. It runs run fine there but it is way to moody to the air change.Around here you may see 1800 da to 4500 da in a days time. Not good to keep up with bracket racing. and they tell me my Q/F= quick fuel carb flow 930 cfm
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 09:51 PM
Quote:
my guess is that fuel starts to come through the boosters at 1300 rpms thats why the mix screws do VERY little change.
Really not a prblem but if its a street car it can be difficult to get the mix perfect throuout the circuits.
No street car and it seems to idle fine..Might be one of them things I am looking at to fix and it's not really broke LOL
Posted By: emarine01
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 09:58 PM
Ok... I thought you had a longer stroke engine.... It all makes sense now
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 10:01 PM
Quote:
Ok... I thought you had a longer stroke engine.... It all makes sense now
stock stroke..I am gald it makes sense to you ! Now expain it to me LOL
Posted By: Guitar Jones
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 10:08 PM
Quote:
IFR .042
Jones just wonder if I should be albe to ajust the Idle mixer screws at 1200 rpms ? I thought I should ? and if the jetting and air bleeds was close ?
The throttle plate is open to far so it's past the idle circuit. Are there any holes in the throttle plates? If not try opening the secondary plates and closing the primary some. If that doesn't work you may need to drill holes in the primary plates or if it has holes they may need to be larger. This is so you can get the air flow needed but still keep the plates closed enough to use the idle circuit.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 10:18 PM
Quote:
Quote:
IFR .042
Jones just wonder if I should be albe to ajust the Idle mixer screws at 1200 rpms ? I thought I should ? and if the jetting and air bleeds was close ?
The throttle plate is open to far so it's past the idle circuit. Are there any holes in the throttle plates? If not try opening the secondary plates and closing the primary some. If that doesn't work you may need to drill holes in the primary plates or if it has holes they may need to be larger. This is so you can get the air flow needed but still keep the plates closed enough to use the idle circuit.
This what I thought. But I am not not a great carb guy so I thought maybe I needed to change the IAB or something like that. drilling the holes is a old school trick I have done to older carbs that did't not have adjustable air bleeds.
Posted By: Guitar Jones
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/25/11 11:00 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
IFR .042
Jones just wonder if I should be albe to ajust the Idle mixer screws at 1200 rpms ? I thought I should ? and if the jetting and air bleeds was close ?
The throttle plate is open to far so it's past the idle circuit. Are there any holes in the throttle plates? If not try opening the secondary plates and closing the primary some. If that doesn't work you may need to drill holes in the primary plates or if it has holes they may need to be larger. This is so you can get the air flow needed but still keep the plates closed enough to use the idle circuit.
This what I thought. But I am not not a great carb guy so I thought maybe I needed to change the IAB or something like that. drilling the holes is a old school trick I have done to older carbs that did't not have adjustable air bleeds.
You can make the circuit richer or leaner with the bleed but if the throttle is open past the transfer slots it won't make a difference.
Posted By: 11secondC
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/26/11 12:24 AM
This is how my 850 is setup...
86/95 4.5" PV - 50cc pumps, Brown Cam's and 54 squirters.
.026" HSB
.043" IFR
.081" PVCR
.067" LSB
Definitely lockout your distributor aswell...
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/26/11 12:32 AM
Quote:
This is how my 850 is setup...
86/95 4.5" PV - 50cc pumps, Brown Cam's and 54 squirters.
.026" HSB
.043" IFR
.081" PVCR
.067" LSB
Definitely lockout your distributor aswell...
wow you are really dumping the fuel with the pump/squirters. makes me fell better about bumping that all up. carb cam with orange cams and 37 squirters. Car would not leave the line went to pink cams and 42 squirters that help. So I got 45 in there now..I might need to go more !
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/26/11 01:35 AM
Quote:
has IAB .067 and HSB .028. So does this sounds close ??
Yes, that sounds close. But every combo can be slightly different.
The metering blocks and boosters will effect the main jets and air bleeds needed. Smaller on both air bleeds might help. From what I have seen, richer WOT might be worth trying, those 84/94 jets are not big for E85.
Posted By: ajcasini
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/26/11 01:41 AM
Jamie your engine is very close to one I ran a few year back. I ran an 825 demon on mine and setup was
.026 hsb
.063 iab
.042 ifr
87 pmj 4.5 pv
96 smj
045 squirter w pink cams
This setup netted me quite a few wins and awesome consistency. I did the carb myself. One this the 950 hp carb you have is smaller than you 850 qf.
Aj
Posted By: ajcasini
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/26/11 01:43 AM
Also what issues were you seeing with the car?
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/26/11 02:27 AM
Well I will run it Fri night with the set up in it and see where we get. and I will report back LOL
Have not run it yet AJ
now I got everything fix.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/27/11 12:19 AM
Ok guy My wife read all this and wants to know if I got my distributor lock out and why not and why you guys think I should. So I had to explain what that meant and that I do not. and I not sure I agree with it. so Why would you want more timing at start up with e-85 than gas ?? I have 21 initial and 35 total all in at 1200 rpms
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/27/11 12:36 AM
That sounds fine to me.
Posted By: ajcasini
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/27/11 01:04 AM
When I first converted mine I was setup with same timing curve you had. Ended up locking the distributor out to try it and made no difference. I was launching at 1800-2200 so I was full in after I torques up on the fb. You should be fine with that setup.
Posted By: 69dart
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/27/11 01:07 AM
I dont understand why you want the timing locked out on E85 but not gas either? Since Jenny foot brakes the car make sure you have hollow squirter screws.
Jamie this is the time to buy - I saw E85 for $3.02 at Polaris today. I'm considering finding a drum to fill up because it was up to $3.50 this summer.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/27/11 01:54 AM
Yes we have the good hollow squirter screws. and yes I need to find a drum also !
Posted By: sshemi
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/28/11 08:51 PM
dont listen to what jets someone elses different carb has.
If it runs good leave it.
If you start to change air bleeds you will offset the whole fuel curve.
Posted By: QWK_ENUF
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/29/11 02:06 AM
i have been running E85 now for three years now with no problems. i have a 3 circuit 1050 set up with the qwk fuel kit. i have went to 99 MJ and bumped up the timing 2 deg over my starting point in 2009. others i have converted also run with no problems. at MMW i ran a best of 9.89 with the trottle loose to run the 10.0 and john cope (CRT) ran a best of 9.94 and jerry hayes (MOPARPITTBULL) ran solid 9.80's with a smaller carb to slow it to the 10.0s. E85 ROCKS.....
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/30/11 01:13 AM
Ok I started the car up today for the first time in two days..Man this thing is cold blooded . How is the rest of your cars.. is it a little lean ??
Posted By: 11secondC
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/30/11 01:16 AM
No worse than it was when it was on gas...
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/30/11 01:32 AM
Quote:
Ok I started the car up today for the first time in two days..Man this thing is cold blooded . How is the rest of your cars.. is it a little lean ??
Jamie, what was the ambient temp when you fired it up...
E-85 is REAL cold blooded... I wont even attempt it
if its 45* or lower(maybe closer to 50*) you have to
pump the hell out of it to get it to fire and keep
it lit till it gets some temp into the engine
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 (update 10-7-11) - 09/30/11 01:36 AM
Did't look at the temp but I will say it was 55-60 degs in the garage..
Posted By: 69dart
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 09/30/11 02:14 AM
Cold starting is my only complaint with E85. I think that you run the same M1 intake that I run and maybe that contributes to the cold weather start-up issue. Save your starter and go buy several cans of starting fluid. Keep them in the trailer and garage for those 1st starts of the day.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/08/11 03:44 AM
So it was lean.. hesitate.. ran hot.. so I jetted it up to 87-98.. and put .055 squirters in it and move the pump cams to #2 hole. still got some hesitation..so tomorrow I going to put brown cams on it and maybe bigger squirters. might jet the front up some more..But on the good side of it.It has been a while since I drove and I got in the gambler race and won it ! LOL
Posted By: WILD BILL
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/08/11 04:03 AM
Making the most out of the little time Jennie let's you drive? 
Nice job bud 
Posted By: Chad Bittle
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/08/11 04:31 AM
I think dad, myself and Bill will be joing you tomorrow, Jaime.
Posted By: racerx
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 - 10/08/11 04:42 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Ok I started the car up today for the first time in two days..Man this thing is cold blooded . How is the rest of your cars.. is it a little lean ??
Jamie, what was the ambient temp when you fired it up...
E-85 is REAL cold blooded... I wont even attempt it
if its 45* or lower(maybe closer to 50*) you have to
pump the hell out of it to get it to fire and keep
it lit till it gets some temp into the engine
I've started my last Sunday temp. was between 40-45 in the morning u have to pump the h*ll out of it to get it to start and keep it running with the rpm up to get the heat in the motor.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/08/11 02:01 PM
Quote:
Making the most out of the little time Jennie let's you drive?
Nice job bud
I got to keep my 1 win a year streak going !..Jenni can't pick on me to much that way LOL
Posted By: WILD BILL
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/08/11 02:04 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Making the most out of the little time Jennie let's you drive?
Nice job bud
I got to keep my 1 win a year streak going !..Jenni can't pick on me to much that way LOL
What ever you need to tell yourself
Posted By: tboomer
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/08/11 02:06 PM
Bill....Maybe Jenni should drive your car!!
Posted By: RBDuster
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/08/11 02:46 PM
Good job on the win.
Posted By: 11secondC
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/08/11 07:09 PM
Did it pick up any?
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/09/11 03:24 AM
Quote:
Bill....Maybe Jenni should drive your car!!
LMAO Now thats funny !!
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/09/11 03:27 AM
Quote:
Did it pick up any?
NO I don't think so..
I just got home from the track..I will fill in with some details tomorrow.. I am too whip right now !
Posted By: dartman366
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/09/11 04:55 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Bill....Maybe Jenni should drive your car!!
LMAO Now thats funny !!
What! no response from the blue guy?? I am shocked. 
Posted By: WILD BILL
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/09/11 05:13 AM
Ok, you want a response..
Try this, If for any reason I was to become unable to drive my car, I would be quite proud to have Jennie behind the wheel. At least till one of my own kids was up to the task.
She is by far not only of the better drivers I've met but she is also a great person overall.
I agree that I'm by no means a force to be reckoned with or someone that you should dread lining up against but as long as I can still get behind the wheel I will continue to do my best to hold my own.
Besides, I don't think she could come to terms with dying her hair blue
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/09/11 03:04 PM
Quote:
Besides, I don't think she could come to terms with dying her hair blue
Well Now I would not rule that out ! LOL She like blue her racing jacket and gloves are blue and she had me paint her last JR blue.And she had a lics plate made in blue for the back of the car. so the car had some blue on it !! And she realy Like to run in the 10.00 class..So if I was you I would not give her that chance LOL..She just might take you up on it !!...You know if we did't luv ya Bill we would not pic on ya ! 
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/09/11 03:21 PM
Now back to this Carb,,Not sure I like it !! the driveability Of this thing $ucks..way too cold blooded and once it wram up trying to give it light throttle it hesitation trying to just move the car a little in the staging lanes the Rpms drop down to far it dies..say below 700-800. It will once warm sit there and idle at 150 deg all day long. but over all it don't run cooler . It is a little slower and and so far I do not see it more consistent. I got away from the hesitation on the line by raising the launch rpms by 300 rpms But that makes it way to easy to red eye..Not good. I now have 90-97 jets and .055 squirters in it with pink cam on #2 hole.Dumping alot of fuel in there. after the run turn off the track look at the Temp it is 205 degs ..180 when I stage 150 pulling in to the water box.I am bout to put 50cc pumps on it ! Not sure what else to do to it
Posted By: WILD BILL
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/09/11 03:32 PM
Sounds like there's hope for her yet
As for the carb, while I wont pretend to know anything about E85 My Alky carb has a 50 and a 30 cc pump. I think the 50 is in the front but I could be wrong.
Also, a lean out valve is a sure fire method of getting heat in the motor. Getting the oil hot is paramount as I learned at the Mo Power race. Sometimes I would have the LO valve open till I was ready to do my burnout.
I have had to, when it's real cold, pour gas down the throat of the carb to get it to fire for the first time in the morning. After that it wasn't an issue. I've also found that if I give it a pump, then start the motor spinning and then lite it it would fire easier.
I also don't turn the fuel pump on till after the motor is running as Alky can easily overcome the needles and pour out the boosters.
Posted By: sshemi
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/09/11 04:52 PM
Quote:
Now back to this Carb,,Not sure I like it !! the driveability Of this thing $ucks..way too cold blooded and once it wram up trying to give it light throttle it hesitation trying to just move the car a little in the staging lanes the Rpms drop down to far it dies..say below 700-800. It will once warm sit there and idle at 150 deg all day long. but over all it don't run cooler . It is a little slower and and so far I do not see it more consistent. I got away from the hesitation on the line by raising the launch rpms by 300 rpms But that makes it way to easy to red eye..Not good. I now have 90-97 jets and .055 squirters in it with pink cam on #2 hole.Dumping alot of fuel in there. after the run turn off the track look at the Temp it is 205 degs ..180 when I stage 150 pulling in to the water box.I am bout to put 50cc pumps on it ! Not sure what else to do to it
i am suprised that it doesnt already have 50 cc pumps.
i pretty sure you have way too much jet in it.
Too much fuel will make it stall after a rump.
And if you use the 50 cc pumps i bet your hesitation will go away.
Or... if you send me 20$ and the carb ill take care of it. 
Posted By: Just-a-dart
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/09/11 06:33 PM
I found my old combo wanted a lot of pump shot when I foot braked from 1800 on E85, Ended up with 50cc pumps front and back and 50 shooters. 60' times got better till I ended up there. This was on a Indy headed 408 with a hp950.
My
you will need at least 1 50cc pump to get the pump shot duration you need(the bigger the shooter the faster the pump is empty) when the carb is happy I think you will be happy with e85's performance/cost.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/09/11 07:41 PM
I have 2 50cc pumps here..I be putting them on..I just needed a little push to do so LOL
Posted By: Chad Bittle
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/09/11 08:54 PM
You gonna be at pacemakers again next weekend Jaime?
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/09/11 10:28 PM
Yes sir be with a improve carb LOL
Posted By: 69dart
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/10/11 04:35 PM
You shouldn't need 50cc pumps. Sounds like the wrong air bleeds to me. What size air bleeds did you stuff in there? I can pull the 950 off my dart if you want to try my carb so you can copy it. The dart has wicked throttle response and never any kind of hesitation but you know how long it took me to figure it out.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/10/11 07:08 PM
I have not change the air bleeds in it. they are listed in my first post ? what do you have in yours?
Are you going to pacemakers this weekend ?
Posted By: RBDuster
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/10/11 10:00 PM
On my 850 (E-85) I have 50cc pumps and brown cams. I do believe the 950 has better throttle response than an 850.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/10/11 10:09 PM
Well mine is a 950HP..We will get there I keep reading and it will all sink in sooner or later LOL.I do believe that part of problem is in the air bleeds. but do not know for sure what way to go..Dang gone thing sits there and idles so well I hate to mess with the IAB
Posted By: WHITEDART
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/10/11 11:47 PM
Posted By: 69dart
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/13/11 01:47 AM
Jamie my 950 has 63 and 28 air bleeds. I'm not sure about jetting - I can pull the bowls or search the log books if you need.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/15/11 02:16 AM
Ok well I have wonder over to the E-85 race board on this deal..But I want to post a link to that so everyone know what all changes I made and what has happen..Geting happy with it now LOL
http://raceone85.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=999&page=1
Posted By: 69dart
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/15/11 02:35 PM
I run 45 squirters with 30cc pumps. Dont forget your starting fluid its going to be cold this weekend.
Posted By: cudadon
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/15/11 03:15 PM
as was said bigger squirters empty the pump faster with 30cc pumps.
my 950 I put 1 50cc on the front and it got rid of the hes.
I think this will be more apparent in cool/cold weather. So makes sure engine is warmed up when you go to wide open throttle. Like the dart man said the single plane manifold is a cold man.
I too dump gas in when it's 45* for first start.
Something is wrong if you didn't get quicker with E 85. Keep going you will get it.
Don
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/15/11 04:51 PM
No longer cold blooded ..50cc pump on front. 45 shooters on both and IAB change.. Closing down rear throttle ..Made a big change in this thing ! we are close now..
Posted By: 69dart
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/17/11 01:04 AM
So I guess you'll agree that E85 works pretty well considering you won Saturday and got to the Semi's today.
Your car was waaay more consistent than mine today. I think my 10 year old Goodyears have seen there last race.
Posted By: VernMotor
Re: OK 3th try with the E-85 update ( 10-7-11 ) - 10/18/11 01:13 AM
yea think it's close..little more tweaks we will be there..sun it was very consistent..too bad I went to sleep on ya! .. Glad to see you win it !
