Question about Aluminum heads.

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 03:33 PM

I am looking for a set of closed chamber aluminum heads for my 440 build.
Was planning to go with Stealth heads but noticed a couple of other options on eBag. Does anyone have experience with the Engine Works heads or the Procomp heads being offered? Prices seem pretty reasonable and flow numbers look impressive but this is a major purchase for me and I do not want to regret spending my money.

By the way, I did try the search function first but couldn't find anything specific to the heads in question.

Posted By: Biginchmopar

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 03:41 PM

The Pro Comps are Edelbrock knock off's. Good castings and everything I have seen looks to be real good.

Good Luck

Posted By: shoebox

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 04:39 PM

I went with the stealth heads. Price was more in line with my
Budget. They look good and just make sure to go through them
And check guides etc..

Posted By: Chris2581

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 05:10 PM

I went with Stealths.Everything checked great,I did change springs.locks and retainers to Comp Cams stuff.

Posted By: POS Dakota

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 06:05 PM

Quote:

The Pro Comps are Edelbrock knock off's. Good castings and everything I have seen looks to be real good.

Good Luck

I've been waiting to see the smallblock heads they were supposedly going to make...

Posted By: 1Fast340

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 06:27 PM

i woudldnt poke a procomp product with someoneelses stick..
that said. you may want to tell everyone more about your intended goals

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 07:12 PM

I am wanting to build a quench motor that will produce about 500 horsepower for street use.
The car is a 68 Coronet R/T and has all the torque boxes of a hemi car plus the Dana 60 Suregrip with 3:54 gears, 18 spline 4 speed, transmission.
I have an Edlebrock RPM dual plane intake, a Holley 870 Street Avenger carburetor.
Standard stroke crank, stock rods (all sized and rotating assembly balanced), .040 bore with TRW flat top 10:1 pistons, Felpro .039 Head Gasket.
I have a new set of CAT 1.6 aluminum roller rockers and shafts that have been in the box for a few years now but would need to change them out for offset rockers if I go with the Engine Works or Procomp heads.

Plan to run headers with 1 7/8" primaries into 2 1/2" exhaust pipes and turbo mufflers.

I have not selected a camshaft as yet either.

Other new parts on hand:
Ferrea SS Valves 2.14/1.81
Viton Valve seals
OEM style "Hemi" Valve springs
Keepers & locks but I can't remember what they are at the moment.

Posted By: therocks

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 07:15 PM

My machinist had a set of PCs at the shop.Said they were a total POS.I have Stealths on my 440.Fourthth year and no problems.I also changed to Comp spring,retainers,and keepers for the .588 solid cam.Machinist just relapped valves to satisfy his perfectionist ways and back cut them.Rocky

Posted By: kzinge1

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 08:59 PM

I have a set of Procomps on my 511. It made 575HP with a mild hyd. Roller. Haven't had any issues with them. I did have a freeze plug blow out on one though, kinda weird. Put a new one in and it's been fine ever since. You will need offset rocker arms which isn't much of an issue if you have to buy new anyway. I still needed more pushrod clearance on mine with offset rockers and 5/16 pushrods so offset roller lifters wouldve helped too. That being said, I also have Stealths on another motor without any issues. That's all you should need anyway for 500HP.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 09:17 PM

Quote:

I am wanting to build a quench motor that will produce about 500 horsepower for street use.
The car is a 68 Coronet R/T and has all the torque boxes of a hemi car plus the Dana 60 Suregrip with 3:54 gears, 18 spline 4 speed, transmission.
I have an Edlebrock RPM dual plane intake, a Holley 870 Street Avenger carburetor.
Standard stroke crank, stock rods (all sized and rotating assembly balanced), .040 bore with TRW flat top 10:1 pistons, Felpro .039 Head Gasket.
I have a new set of CAT 1.6 aluminum roller rockers and shafts that have been in the box for a few years now but would need to change them out for offset rockers if I go with the Engine Works or Procomp heads.

Plan to run headers with 1 7/8" primaries into 2 1/2" exhaust pipes and turbo mufflers.

I have not selected a camshaft as yet either.

Other new parts on hand:
Ferrea SS Valves 2.14/1.81
Viton Valve seals
OEM style "Hemi" Valve springs
Keepers & locks but I can't remember what they are at the moment.

The procomp head is a ripoff of the Ebrock Victor head, a little overkill for this build.

Buy the Ebrock, RPM or the MP 452 or the stealths and lose those POS cat rockers anyway...

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 10:24 PM

Quote:

The procomp head is a ripoff of the Ebrock Victor head, a little overkill for this build.

Buy the Ebrock, RPM or the MP 452 or the stealths and lose those POS cat rockers anyway...

So I take it the CAT rockers have not proven themselves any good in the 5 years since I bought them? Hard to believe this project has been on hold that long.

Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 10:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I am wanting to build a quench motor that will produce about 500 horsepower for street use.
The car is a 68 Coronet R/T and has all the torque boxes of a hemi car plus the Dana 60 Suregrip with 3:54 gears, 18 spline 4 speed, transmission.
I have an Edlebrock RPM dual plane intake, a Holley 870 Street Avenger carburetor.
Standard stroke crank, stock rods (all sized and rotating assembly balanced), .040 bore with TRW flat top 10:1 pistons, Felpro .039 Head Gasket.
I have a new set of CAT 1.6 aluminum roller rockers and shafts that have been in the box for a few years now but would need to change them out for offset rockers if I go with the Engine Works or Procomp heads.

Plan to run headers with 1 7/8" primaries into 2 1/2" exhaust pipes and turbo mufflers.

I have not selected a camshaft as yet either.

Other new parts on hand:
Ferrea SS Valves 2.14/1.81
Viton Valve seals
OEM style "Hemi" Valve springs
Keepers & locks but I can't remember what they are at the moment.

The procomp head is a ripoff of the Ebrock Victor head, a little overkill for this build.

Buy the Ebrock, RPM or the MP 452 or the stealths and lose those POS cat rockers anyway...

Always buy overkill when it comes to heads. When the next build happens he wont have to buy twice.

Posted By: rickraw

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 11:07 PM

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/25/11 11:31 PM

If I am reading this right (counting negatives as a vote for the other side) it is about a dead heat between the Stealths and the Procomps. No one has mentioned the Engine Works heads which claim to be comparable to the Edlebrocks and others.
They have the same stats as the Procomps but are selling around $600 at auction. That and the offset rockers puts me back at the $1000 mark real quick.

Posted By: lewtot184

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/26/11 12:55 AM

the procomps are raised port heads (i think the engine works are the same). you may have an issue with these heads, and tall intake closing the hood.

Posted By: ahy

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/26/11 01:08 AM

The nice thing about the Edelbrock RPM, MP Edlebrock based head and Stealths is they use standard rocker gear and have standard port location. You get good choices for rockers, intakes and headers. Plus they easily breath enough to make 500 HP and will make 600 HP ported. They are a great foundation for a quench engine and reasonable cost. If you are running more than about .5" lift, upgrade to 10 degree locks and retainers is recommended and valve springs may need upgrade depending on cam.

While not strictly necessary, checkup by a good machine shop is a good idea and cheap insurance. Valve to guide clearance and quality of the valvejob are high on the list. Also a skilled shop can clean up the bowls and ports with very little time/cost to even out and slightly improve flow. Suggest you take this into account in your head source/build plans.

Posted By: StealthWedge67

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/26/11 01:28 AM

Im Very happy with my Stealth head purchase. I like the fact that they look stock. I used them out of the box, just adding comp 10* locks and retainers, and the double springs that came with my Engle cam. My mild 451 street combo makes right around 500 HP with them.

The raised Port, Offset rocker design of the P-C's is more of a race head design than a street head. I'm sure they would work for you just fine also, although you are more likely to run into header fitment issues with an RB block and raised port heads in a stock chassis engine bay (???).

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/26/11 02:06 AM

With the OP's goals of around 500 hp, it would be best to stick with Stealth heads or Edelbrock RPM's. He can spend the money for porting later if he wants to up the power.
My reasoning is,if he goes to a Max Wedge sized port head with his original goal in mind,it will be lacking in torque which is important as well.
Bigger is not always better,especially at lower horsepower levels.
Keith

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/26/11 02:48 AM

I appreciate all the input. I am going with the Stealth heads for now since they seem to fit my plans better and require less "tweaking" and add-ons.

Maybe I should get the bare heads and have a shop install my valves and springs while they check out the head.

Any recommendations for a camshaft for this set up?

Posted By: ahy

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/26/11 03:35 AM

For the cam, can you share a little more on the setup and your goals? Planned driving... street, strip, both? Compression ratio planned. From your post its a 4 speed, what rear ratio and tire size? How much "personality" do you want in the engine (lopey idle for example). Are you running power brakes?

Posted By: mshred

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/26/11 04:43 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The Pro Comps are Edelbrock knock off's. Good castings and everything I have seen looks to be real good.

Good Luck

I've been waiting to see the smallblock heads they were supposedly going to make...

yea me too...they were in their catalog, but havent heard or seen anything about them since then

to the OP, if you are looking for a cam I would give Brian at IMM engines a call. He can spec you an awesome custom grind that will work for YOUR setup and it wont set you back any more than an off the shelf grind. Top notch guy who knows his chit and is willing to help

good luck

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/26/11 05:55 AM

Quote:

For the cam, can you share a little more on the setup and your goals? Planned driving... street, strip, both? Compression ratio planned. From your post its a 4 speed, what rear ratio and tire size? How much "personality" do you want in the engine (lopey idle for example). Are you running power brakes?

Its a muscle car and I want it to sound like one.
3:54 gears in a Dana 60
I live in Arizona around the 5000' altitude mark so I am thinking with aluminum heads 10.5 or 11 to 1 on the compression ratio. 91 octane pump gas.
Haven't bought the wheels and tires yet but thinking 15" Magnum 500 for the wheels 28" on the tires???

Posted By: pro6pakRR

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/26/11 06:10 AM

I put the Edelbrock's on my 440 right out of the box.Have a mopar 590 cam Crane 1.6 roller rockers and a 6bbl.Been on car for 5 years and everything still works great.car has run 11.53@117 at #3895.

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/26/11 06:49 AM

Look for a good set of used Eddys, or something like it. They're always for sale because of guys stepping up..

Chris..

Posted By: tboomer

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/26/11 01:22 PM

Chris is right! Some guys will be stepping it up at the end of the season and there will be some good deals on heads!

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/26/11 02:17 PM

Quote:

I appreciate all the input. I am going with the Stealth heads for now since they seem to fit my plans better and require less "tweaking" and add-ons.

Maybe I should get the bare heads and have a shop install my valves and springs while they check out the head.

Any recommendations for a camshaft for this set up?

You can't buy the stealths bare anymore , a lot has changed in 5 years .

As far as those rockers , NEW Cats MAY be better??? They have/had an issue with the shaft that the roller tip rides on being brittle and breaking, the design of the rocker can pop the valve locks free and you'll know what happens next. One place to NOT SKIMP is on rocker gear, their failure can be very expensive to repair.

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/26/11 02:21 PM

Quote:

Look for a good set of used Eddys, or something like it. They're always for sale because of guys stepping up..

Chris..

I have been watching for a used set but so far nothing "undamaged" as popped up. I'll keep an eye out as I am not under a time crunch - just want to get my car back on the road again.

Posted By: ahy

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/27/11 02:23 AM

I believe 10.5-11.0 compression will work at 5000'. May be a bit high if you ever drop down in altitude. For the cam, I'll suggest something in the range of 230 degrees intake duration at .050". Hot enough for good power and sound but not a pain to drive. Comp and Hughes both have good offerings in that range. Assuming you want a hydraulic FT the Comp "Extreme Energy High Lift" or Hughes hydraulic FT would fit the bill. Both are fast rate cams and would need good adjustable rockers. A link to Mancini where both are advertised is below. 230 degrees at .050" would be borderline for power brakes.

As posted above, an engine builder is a great resource to help pick a cam.

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/hughesengines.html

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/27/11 02:44 AM

if it was my money it would be standard port procomps now. get the rockers you need now. if the need for speed happens to you like it does to everyone else, you will already have what you need. just send the heads to get maxed out and your saving thousands

Posted By: Bishop

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/27/11 03:11 AM

I talked with 440 Source this past Friday and They do sell the Heads bare for $750

Brian

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/27/11 03:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Look for a good set of used Eddys, or something like it. They're always for sale because of guys stepping up..

Chris..

I have been watching for a used set but so far nothing "undamaged" as popped up. I'll keep an eye out as I am not under a time crunch - just want to get my car back on the road again.

Put an ad in the parts wanted section..

Chris..

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/27/11 07:47 AM

The Engine works heads looks like re-packaged pro-comp heads, which are a copy of the Edelbrock Victor heads.
These heads have smaller 72cc chambers than the Edelbrock RPM or 440 source stealth heads 80-84cc chambers, so they may bump your compression to about 11.5:1 (if using a flat top like the KB237, or TRW2355.)
The RPM/stealth heads are about 10.25 to 10.5:1 compression with the same pistons.
The above compression ratios assume the block is milled to zero deck, and uses a fel-pro 1009 head gasket (9.9cc.)

The pro-comp/Victor heads also require 0.600"+ offset intake rocker arms, and a valley tray.

The RPM/Stealth heads are closer to a bolt on, using stock rocker offsets, and you can use a stock intake / valley pan gasket.

The RPM heads may flow a bit better out of the box, but the angled spark plugs can also be a problem with some headers and exhaust manifolds.
The Stealth heads have straight/stock location spark plugs, so that should not be an issue. The Stealth heads also look a bit like a stock head when painted.

All the heads mentioned require reduced wrench size head bolts or head studs, and 3/4" reach spark plugs.

The pushrod clearance needs to be checked with any of these heads. Depending on the rocker offset and ratio, the pushrod holes usually need to be enlarged for clearance.

Posted By: 68CoronetRT

Re: Question about Aluminum heads. - 07/27/11 04:02 PM

Thanks for all the responses. Plenty of good information here and I hope it helps others as much as it has helped me.