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build me a bad a$$ small block
Posted By: sixpackgut
build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 06:03 PM
i want to know how much $$$ and what do i need to build a 440 ci small block?
Posted By: jim sciortino
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 06:09 PM
About how much steam???
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 06:15 PM
I dont think it needs to be crazy expensive with w8s or 9s. maybe indy-1s.
pump gas combo around 700-750hp. what kind and size crank is needed to get that many cubes?
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 06:40 PM
ok, so by the lack of response, i take it that a 440 cube small block is not your basic cookie cutter small block
so, first thing i would like to know, is what type of block do you need to build this very large small block? what would be the bore and stroke?
Posted By: jim sciortino
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 06:50 PM
An R3 block at 4.185 x 4.00 is what I'd do.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 06:50 PM
I think a 4.125 crank like BPE sells at 4.100 bore should get you around 440 cubes.
If i was doing old school smallblock like that, i would probably use a 48 degree block and the 48 degree indy heads. good roller ,good headers, should be able to make 700 without a ton of effort.
could just as easily do it with a good X block at 4.100 bore as well with the 59 degree indy heads.Electric water pump, vacuum pump,electric fan, etc should be real doable.
Another way is to just by an r5p7 busch motor, run it on e85 and you are there as well, and WAY cheaper.
Posted By: DJVCuda
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 06:54 PM
I'm in the process of going 430 cubes - 4.080 bore X block and a BPE 4.125 stroke
I'd call BPE - Rod he sells a 4.250 stroke, included in a nice rotating assembly that would have put me at 444 cubes
The reason I did not was I am using a ported eddy - and if I were to upgrade to the even longer stroke - I should go to a better flowing head.
Posted By: mafo
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 06:58 PM
I would go with the bigger bore if you want to use w8 or 9 heads, you just cant fit 2.20 intake valves in a 4.10 bore
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 07:01 PM
price check on aisle 3
indy sells a 440 short block
360-S7-440A
$4945
indy 360-1 kit is $3535
not sure if i want to go this route since i wouldnt use their pushrods or rockers.
do these heads need porting? how much would that add?
would i want to do the 48 degree upgrade? i would think so, right?
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 07:04 PM
Quote:
I would go with the bigger bore if you want to use w8 or 9 heads, you just cant fit 2.20 intake valves in a 4.10 bore
i looked at that and i would rather the bigger bore regardless of head.
48* adds a $1000 to the 360-1 head
Posted By: DragDart360
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 07:15 PM
I would guess 12-15K would get you there. I had Ryan J do my short block and heads, He said it should make around 580 from 408 inches, 11 to 1 comp. He's built them into the 480 CI range.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 07:17 PM
Quote:
I would go with the bigger bore if you want to use w8 or 9 heads, you just cant fit 2.20 intake valves in a 4.10 bore
Correct, that is why he said above he doesnt think it has to be a w8 or w9 deal. with an indy head 4.100 with a long crank would be fine.
If i wanted a bad [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] small block on the cheap, it would be an r5p7 motor, can get a fresh, COMPLETE, and ready to run motor that will make 700 horsepower( likely more)easily for less than you can build an eddie headed 416 that would make 500 ponies, much less an indy headed deal you are going to have 15k in or more when all is said and done.
freind of mine locally did this exact thing and went 9.40's with the supplied belt driven water pump, and junk headers he fabbed up off a w2 motor. And it ran super cool at the track with even back to back laps. Drove it around on the street as well.No telling what it may have run had he played with it a little more than he did.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 07:19 PM
ok, here is what i got
short block $4945
360-1 48* $4535
cam, lifters,shaft $1000
headers $750
carb $1000
oil system, cooling, balancer and dist & wires $2000
i'll port the heads and intake myself to save some cash.
will this do it? 700-750hp?
Posted By: Leon441
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 07:22 PM
48 degree is well worth a grand.
Sounds like you want a low RPM engine grunt engine.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 07:23 PM
Ask AWBDART he seems to know his small blocks. I think he's running a 439 ci SB
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 07:29 PM
Quote:
48 degree is well worth a grand.
Sounds like you want a low RPM engine grunt engine.
no, why do you say that? that is why i would choose the bigger bore over the stroke
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 07:37 PM
Quote:
Quote:
48 degree is well worth a grand.
Sounds like you want a low RPM engine grunt engine.
no, why do you say that? that is why i would choose the bigger bore over the stroke
that many inches even with an indy head is going to lower the power band down somewhat.my old w5 motor was pretty much done at 7000rpm even at 422 inches, i suspect it made peak power at about 6700-6800rpm. With pump gas you obviously will have a smaller camshaft than something with 13 or 14 to 1 compression. 440 inches on pump gas with indy heads should make its most power probably around 6500 imo.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 07:48 PM
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48 degree is well worth a grand.
Sounds like you want a low RPM engine grunt engine.
no, why do you say that? that is why i would choose the bigger bore over the stroke
that many inches even with an indy head is going to lower the power band down somewhat.my old w5 motor was pretty much done at 7000rpm even at 422 inches, i suspect it made peak power at about 6700-6800rpm. With pump gas you obviously will have a smaller camshaft than something with 13 or 14 to 1 compression. 440 inches on pump gas with indy heads should make its most power probably around 6500 imo.
Oh, i see what your saying. Hell, i saw a set of 360-1 heads on quicktrees motor and those ports looked huge to me. as a matter of fact, at a PRI show, quicktree started cracking up, and i was like what are you laughing at, he said look how small those bb ports are. he was pointing at EZ heads
anyone know how Quicktree is doing?
Posted By: Leon441
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 07:50 PM
Your head choice.
And for what you are wanting to do that is about the best choice out. Strokers are great when you want to get it done with less RPM. You want some RPM build less stroke.
My choice would be 4.00" stroke and go for at least 4.125" bore.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 08:10 PM
Quote:
Your head choice.
And for what you are wanting to do that is about the best choice out. Strokers are great when you want to get it done with less RPM. You want some RPM build less stroke.
My choice would be 4.00" stroke and go for at least 4.125" bore.
4.0 stroke x 4.185 is 440 cubes right? do you think this combo i laid out would put my challenger at 3500 pounds at the low 6.20s?
i have 4.10 gears and a 30 tire on it now but could go to a 28
Posted By: dragram440
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 08:40 PM
Why not a big block LOL!!!
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 08:45 PM
Quote:
Why not a big block LOL!!!
I guess he wants to spend a ton of money.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 08:51 PM
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Why not a big block LOL!!!
I guess he wants to spend a ton of money.
well, at the amount i have spent so far on this small block, i could have built 3 600 hp big blocks which in a 3000 pound car would run a decent number
Posted By: fishy340
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 08:53 PM
my engine cost a few grand more then predator heads cost themselves..340 resto block,4" scat crank,4.185 diamond pistons,11.3 compression,and knowledge from ryanj o yea cam is little under 700lift..its a street car also 3.91 gears and all so i paid extra for pac springs...i was gonna try methanol injection to make up for the lack of horsepower being it only made 729hp with a 950carb and only 620lbs of torque..i know yuck is in the bushes reading my combo..lol
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 09:00 PM
Quote:
my engine cost a few grand more then predator heads cost themselves..340 resto block,4" scat crank,4.185 diamond pistons,11.3 compression,and knowledge from ryanj o yea cam is little under 700lift..its a street car also 3.91 gears and all so i paid extra for pac springs...i was gonna try methanol injection to make up for the lack of horsepower being it only made 729hp with a 950carb and only 620lbs of torque..i know yuck is in the bushes reading my combo..lol
meth is good because you can run the advance you want on pump gas. P.S. 700 lift and street car don't go together...lol Bushes?? I doon need no steankin' stroker crank.
Posted By: fishy340
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 09:02 PM
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my engine cost a few grand more then predator heads cost themselves..340 resto block,4" scat crank,4.185 diamond pistons,11.3 compression,and knowledge from ryanj o yea cam is little under 700lift..its a street car also 3.91 gears and all so i paid extra for pac springs...i was gonna try methanol injection to make up for the lack of horsepower being it only made 729hp with a 950carb and only 620lbs of torque..i know yuck is in the bushes reading my combo..lol
meth is good because you can run the advance you want on pump gas. P.S. 700 lift and street car don't go together...lol Bushes?? I doon need no steankin' stroker crank.
lol
Posted By: dusturbd340W5
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 09:54 PM
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Why not a big block LOL!!!
I guess he wants to spend a ton of money.
well, at the amount i have spent so far on this small block, i could have built 3 600 hp big blocks which in a 3000 pound car would run a decent number
I got a turn key 600+ horse SB I can sell you for a good price.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 10:19 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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Why not a big block LOL!!!
I guess he wants to spend a ton of money.
well, at the amount i have spent so far on this small block, i could have built 3 600 hp big blocks which in a 3000 pound car would run a decent number
I got a turn key 600+ horse SB I can sell you for a good price.
Woody, send me a PM
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Why not a big block LOL!!!
I guess he wants to spend a ton of money.
You can say that again.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 11:20 PM
How about a 450cid, pump gas, Indy heads done by me, 1250 dominator, pump gas and around 700-720HP for about 15,500.00?
It won't be a street cam but it will make the power. 48° block, Charlies pan, etc....
Basicly our 800Hp build on pump gas and different cam.
Brian
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 11:29 PM
Quote:
How about a 450cid, pump gas, Indy heads done by me, 1250 dominator, pump gas and around 700-720HP for about 15,500.00?
It won't be a street cam but it will make the power. 48° block, Charlies pan, etc....
Basicly our 800Hp build on pump gas and different cam.
Brian
Brian, where would peak HP be on that combo?
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 11:33 PM
Just buy a nationwide engine. Guarateed 840 hp for less than 8k.......
Posted By: MIKES_DUSTER
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 11:36 PM
Hey Brian.....Dont you have a 400+" SB with around 620hp and pump gas forsale??
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 11:37 PM
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Just buy a nationwide engine. Guarateed 840 hp for less than 8k.......
not a pump gas street car engine
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/19/11 11:47 PM
I thought you were putting the Gen 3 hemi in the challenger?
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/20/11 12:03 AM
Quote:
Hey Brian.....Dont you have a 400+" SB with around 620hp and pump gas forsale??
Yes, but it would seem he wants more than that?
Peak Hp would be around 7200-7400rpm. I can bring the rpm down for more TQ in exchange for HP and rpm range.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/20/11 12:04 AM
Quote:
I thought you were putting the Gen 3 hemi in the challenger?
i am. i got sick of hearing about small blocks so i wanted a good laugh before i went on vacation.
i am thinking i will have 8k in my hemi when its done and it will make 1000 hp
and someone could build my bb for under 10k and make over 700
i think if someone was to build a modern cnc'd procomp headed 400 based big block, 800hp could be had for 9k
Posted By: fishy340
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/20/11 12:08 AM
does the pretty tunnel ram come with the bb ur selling? or is it there to help make the 700 hp u claim to have?
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/20/11 12:17 AM
Quote:
How about a 450cid, pump gas, Indy heads done by me, 1250 dominator, pump gas and around 700-720HP for about 15,500.00?
It won't be a street cam but it will make the power. 48° block, Charlies pan, etc....
Basicly our 800Hp build on pump gas and different cam.
Brian
that's a TON of money. WHy not just use a low compression 360 and a blower and be done for half? less cam, less stall and less gear required and you can DRIVE IT
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/20/11 12:18 AM
Quote:
does the pretty tunnel ram come with the bb ur selling? or is it there to help make the 700 hp u claim to have?
would your expensive big small block push my Challenger to low 20s? i dont think so unless your running 5.90. maybe you are
i just want to say that i respect Leon, B3 and Brian for how well their cars run
Andy, i think you have a complex about something
Posted By: fishy340
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/20/11 12:24 AM
na just comptetive thats all..
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/20/11 12:26 AM
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na just comptetive thats all..
thats cool
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/20/11 01:02 AM
Quote:
Quote:
How about a 450cid, pump gas, Indy heads done by me, 1250 dominator, pump gas and around 700-720HP for about 15,500.00?
It won't be a street cam but it will make the power. 48° block, Charlies pan, etc....
Basicly our 800Hp build on pump gas and different cam.
Brian
that's a TON of money. WHy not just use a low compression 360 and a blower and be done for half? less cam, less stall and less gear required and you can DRIVE IT
I agree NA is not the best way to get that much power. But that wasn't the question. And that included Carb to pan, headers and belt drive.
It might be less, but I never quote low...makes for upset customers.
I'm involved with a customer of mine doing a Twin Turbo deal, RHS heads, hyd. roller cam that should make 700+ on pump gas with around 8-9psi and then we'll turn up the wick to about 14psi and see what happens.
He'll have about 12K in it including the Mega Squirt EFI!
Brian
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/20/11 02:06 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How about a 450cid, pump gas, Indy heads done by me, 1250 dominator, pump gas and around 700-720HP for about 15,500.00?
It won't be a street cam but it will make the power. 48° block, Charlies pan, etc....
Basicly our 800Hp build on pump gas and different cam.
Brian
that's a TON of money. WHy not just use a low compression 360 and a blower and be done for half? less cam, less stall and less gear required and you can DRIVE IT
I agree NA is not the best way to get that much power. But that wasn't the question. And that included Carb to pan, headers and belt drive.
It might be less, but I never quote low...makes for upset customers.
I'm involved with a customer of mine doing a Twin Turbo deal, RHS heads, hyd. roller cam that should make 700+ on pump gas with around 8-9psi and then we'll turn up the wick to about 14psi and see what happens.
He'll have about 12K in it including the Mega Squirt EFI!
Brian
boost is the best way to go. 700 at 8 is good. w/ 12 lbs of boost you are really gonna push the numbers. You can get 700 all day w/ a BB e-heads and a 671. nothing fancy.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: build me a bad a$$ small block - 07/20/11 03:58 AM
6-71 blower isn't as pump gas friendly as the newer stuff.
I don't disagree, but if you beef up the bottom end for the power, your gonna still have alot of money tied up in the build.