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Ignition timing

Posted By: 65dragnet

Ignition timing - 07/08/11 10:57 AM

Put an rb engine together runs fine but can't get anymore than 30 degrees timing in it. Any ideas ? thanks
Posted By: 6bblFLASH

Re: Ignition timing - 07/08/11 12:12 PM

Need more of an explanation please
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Ignition timing - 07/08/11 01:03 PM

Quote:

Put an rb engine together runs fine but can't get anymore than 30 degrees timing in it. Any ideas ? thanks



Cant you turn it any farther... if thats the case...
pull the dist and rotate the intermediate shaft 1 or
2 teeth and reassemble
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Ignition timing - 07/08/11 05:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Put an rb engine together runs fine but can't get anymore than 30 degrees timing in it. Any ideas ? thanks



Cant you turn it any farther... if thats the case...
pull the dist and rotate the intermediate shaft 1 or
2 teeth and reassemble


Posted By: 65dragnet

Re: Ignition timing - 07/08/11 09:09 PM

negative on the intermediate shaft that's not the problem the engine just won't take any advance past 30 degrees. Degreed cam at 106 it is a Comp 324 650 flat tappet, I know it should be 108 but thought I'd try a little advance. Surely two degrees isn't going to cause this. If I advance the timing past 30 to 36 it will choke the engine down and die. TDC and timinng mark on fluid damper are right on. I've had to miss something this is real embarassing and is making me feel very stupid
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Ignition timing - 07/08/11 09:38 PM

Assume you are setting the total with all the mechanical in ( at or around 3K). Only other issues are the timing marks are off or the cam isn't in properly. Might want to check TDC on the the dampener with a positive stop in the #1 hole first - pull all the plugs, DISCONNECT the battery, and rotate the engine by hand - gently.
Posted By: 65dragnet

Re: Ignition timing - 07/08/11 09:43 PM

Thanks did that already that's how I know marks are correct, I don't want pull front cover again but it looks like it's going to happen. Ran this combo before and took it apart for it's 6 year freshen up and decided to mess with cam centerline. What a dummy ! I'm frustrated and this heat is killing my old butt LOL
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Ignition timing - 07/08/11 09:47 PM

Quote:

Thanks did that already that's how I know marks are correct, I don't want pull front cover again but it looks like it's going to happen. Ran this combo before and took it apart for it's 6 year freshen up and decided to mess with cam centerline. What a dummy ! I'm frustrated and this heat is killing my old butt LOL



Are you using a MSD ignition... the dist wires could
be backwards
Posted By: 65dragnet

Re: Ignition timing - 07/08/11 10:08 PM

yes it's a 6 al but I think the plug in is idiot proof but I'll check thanks Mike
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Ignition timing - 07/08/11 10:17 PM

Quote:

yes it's a 6 al but I think the plug in is idiot proof but I'll check thanks Mike



2 degrees of cam timing wouldnt effect the spark timing
I'm just throwing out ideas... if you didnt change any
of the ignition stuff it SHOULD be fine
Posted By: 65dragnet

Re: Ignition timing - 07/08/11 10:25 PM

AGREE
Posted By: moparmxz

Re: Ignition timing - 07/09/11 12:40 AM

Ebert did you advance the cam with a bushing and the same timing gears. Or did you change it with the gear with the different marks on it. Something sounds mighty funny,hope you get her fixed. I will see you at the hill if your coming tomorrow.
Posted By: 65dragnet

Re: Ignition timing - 07/09/11 12:58 AM

Randy I advanced it with the three keyed gear, no bushing
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Ignition timing - 07/09/11 01:08 AM

Quote:

Randy I advanced it with the three keyed gear, no bushing



And you did verify it with a degree wheel... correct
Posted By: moparmxz

Re: Ignition timing - 07/09/11 01:17 AM

Those little marks can be tricky,i would pull it back apart and double check,but as mr P say,s it would be best to do it with a degree wheel.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Ignition timing - 07/09/11 03:46 AM

Quote:

Randy I advanced it with the three keyed gear, no bushing

If you DID NOT use a degree wheel and verify the actual cam timing and lobe seperation angles you will never know what the cam is in at I have seen many crankshaft and cam gears with multiple keyways be off as many as 12 degrees I just went thruogh this with a high doller nine key way timing set that the 6 degree advance keyway was actually 2 degrees advanced on the cam, not six You have to check everything to make sure it is correct I had a very similar expereince with the first roller cam I installed years ago, the cam pin was installed 8 degrees retarted It ran fine on the trailer, it was a 392 Hemi V drive boat motor, rev and sounded like it was a SB Chevy, in the water it wouldn't fall out of a tree if you pushed it with a D8 CAT , horrible experience Let us know what you find
Posted By: 65dragnet

Re: Ignition timing - 07/09/11 04:27 AM

Yes fellas I did degree the cam with a degree wheel and I know for a fact that the key way in the Eagle crank is off 2 degrees . I installed the cam with the intake ctr line method , straight up and it ended up being 106 which is advanced 2 degrees from the cam recommended 108. But something is bad wrong with my approach , I screwed up some where. I have never ran into this in the 40 years I've been wrenching , getting too old I guess ,it's coming apart tomorrow. Thanks guys
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Ignition timing - 07/09/11 06:17 AM

Before you move the cam timing check the exhaust lobe center, if your cam is ground on a 108 lobe center then the exhaust lobe center should be in at 110 BTDC with the intake in at 106 ATDC I have seen more than one cam ground incorrectly Murphy really likes to mess with us racers Good luck, take your time and find out what you can, let us know what you find, this one is puzzling
Posted By: 65dragnet

Re: Ignition timing - 07/10/11 04:17 AM

Well pulled it back apart guys and checked all events of the cam with a degree wheel, it was absolutely perfect. Checked distributor wires checked rotor , this a pro billet MSD and is locked at full advance, found no issues. Checked balancer and it was within 1 degree at absolute TDC. Cam was actually installed straight up and came in at 109 we left everything as was and buttoned it back up.Fired it up and it timed at 36 degrees , wow what a PITA. I know I'm not crazy but more of this crap and I'll be there. Sorry guys don't know what happened. I have two witnesses that experienced this and they are stunned also. Simply un friggen believable. Thanks for all the input !
Posted By: mac56

Re: Ignition timing - 07/10/11 12:11 PM

Quote:

Well pulled it back apart guys and checked all events of the cam with a degree wheel, it was absolutely perfect. Checked distributor wires checked rotor , this a pro billet MSD and is locked at full advance, found no issues. Checked balancer and it was within 1 degree at absolute TDC. Cam was actually installed straight up and came in at 109 we left everything as was and buttoned it back up.Fired it up and it timed at 36 degrees , wow what a PITA. I know I'm not crazy but more of this crap and I'll be there. Sorry guys don't know what happened. I have two witnesses that experienced this and they are stunned also. Simply un friggen believable. Thanks for all the input !


Glad to hear it is ok now and if your like most of us it will keep you awake a few nights wondering what the friday was going on.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Ignition timing - 07/10/11 01:38 PM

Quite weird... I wonder if it was a ground problem
Posted By: 65dragnet

Re: Ignition timing - 07/10/11 04:53 PM

I'm still wondering ! Maybe timing light issue , ground issue or still maybe an intermitant MSD problem . Sure hope it doesn't come back !
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Ignition timing - 07/11/11 01:11 AM

Quote:

I'm still wondering ! Maybe timing light issue , ground issue or still maybe an intermitant MSD problem . Sure hope it doesn't come back !

Congratulations on getting it fixed, we'll pray for you on this issue
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