Moparts
727 BURNT UP!
Posted By: instigator
727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 02:56 AM
Finally got the trans pulled out and opened up tonight....
Found front clutches(5)were burnt....so were rear clutches(4)
I made 5 passes on the car with the fastest going 128mph in the 1/8th..so it was making some steam but not wicked up like I want to be able to....
This was the 1st time out after replacing the stripped aluminum drum with a steel, cluthes then looked good....
I test fit a 7 cluth red alto in the front drum tonight and had .070....
also test a 5 clutch rear setup and had 0 clearnaced....got to do a little work to get the .025 minimum...
probably looking to put a brake in the trans since I have it out and tore down....any recomendations....anyone use the tranzact nitro brake with the increased line pressure?
Posted By: steeldust
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 03:31 AM
How much boost are you making ? I run a pro tree trans brake it"s a tran zack brake but i run 6.0 class and JAMIE at pro touqe converter made me a converter and his converters has no sprag in it and most all the fast outlaw 10.5 cars runs his converters .GOOD LUCK.
Posted By: instigator
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 03:59 AM
The 128mph pass was at 18 psi.....I really want to get the 727 to work for me....I feel I may have had something out of wack the last time I put the trans back together because I had about 50 passes on it before and the clutches looked good after I tore the trans down to fix the broken planetary.
Now that was with less power but I still had numerous 120mph+ 1/8th mile passes before.
Posted By: viperblue72
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 04:09 AM
Well there's a huge horsepower difference between 120+ and 128 in the 1/8th. I hope you can get the 727 to work for ya.
Posted By: Dragula
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 11:10 AM
Time for a glide or a TH400....Doubt the mopar trans will last at those levels....
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 01:38 PM
How much torque is that engine making , Dodge Cummins pickups use the 727 based OD trans with over 1500lb/ft of torque ...
Posted By: Bob_Coomer
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 02:16 PM
Yea I gotta agree the 727 wasnt setup properly.. I have been 900+HP with a 727 with mostly stock parts and they have been lasting for years.
I have run several Tranzact Brakes, and they work flawlessly.
Posted By: tboomer
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 02:21 PM
bad1970dust has gone 7.78 @ 179 with a 727...And I don't think he has touched it for a couple of years..
Posted By: Leon441
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 03:31 PM
Quote:
Time for a glide or a TH400....Doubt the mopar trans will last at those levels....
A properly built 727 will last well over a full season at much more power.
My personal experience.....
Ran over 140MPH in the eighth at 3200 lbs 31X10.5W tires 4.10 rear gear. Used a Tranzact Pro brake with the clean neutral. Did not have to run a lot of line pressure either. 135 psi. When I had trouble burning up clutches it was when I tried other Valve Bodies. Get a Tranzact.
Also I know it against most of the Mopar communities advise.. but, I never had good results with the red clutches. The ones I ran were smooth. After running a powerglide I found that most in that arena do not run the smooth clutches due to the fact they, for lack of a better word, hydraplane. The smooth surface just can not properly squeeze the fluid out from between the clutch and plates without slipping first. My best luck with the 727 was when running the blue grooved clutches and steels. My engine did not make a million HP or Torque but I have timeslips to proove I ran a lot faster than these guys think is possible with a 727. Maybe it is how they built their trannies.
Leon
Posted By: RADAMX
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 03:43 PM
have run as quick as 126 mph in the 1/8 and 157.5 in the 1/4
the only time I have had problems with the clutches was when I had the small feed hole feeding from the front stator on the back of the pump after opening up the hole all was well . this also applies to the cummins Trucks with high boost. They started burning the clutches. So we started to open them up and fixed that problem also.
Just something to look at I am sure the trany is strong enough if you have the right parts in it.
I have a steel splined planetary, aluminum front drum ,bolt in sprag,roller rear drum. and a hipster valve body, modified pump stator.heavy duty clutch apply rod and 4.2 ratio band apply lever
pretty basic but works good so far.
Posted By: sdaurity
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 05:57 PM
I have been 128 mph with nitrous @3150lbs in 1/8. and went 140mph with my turbo set-up, turbo set-up had to have the trans set-up a little different to last (I think because it pulls so much harder in 2nd and 3rd) but I beleive I can go 145 mph when I turn the wick up a little more on the turbo and this is at 3300lbs with 28x10's. and Tranzact valvebody with clean nuetral is the only way to go.
Posted By: Dragula
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 06:14 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Time for a glide or a TH400....Doubt the mopar trans will last at those levels....
A properly built 727 will last well over a full season at much more power.
My personal experience.....
Ran over 140MPH in the eighth at 3200 lbs 31X10.5W tires 4.10 rear gear. Used a Tranzact Pro brake with the clean neutral. Did not have to run a lot of line pressure either. 135 psi. When I had trouble burning up clutches it was when I tried other Valve Bodies. Get a Tranzact.
Also I know it against most of the Mopar communities advise.. but, I never had good results with the red clutches. The ones I ran were smooth. After running a powerglide I found that most in that arena do not run the smooth clutches due to the fact they, for lack of a better word, hydraplane. The smooth surface just can not properly squeeze the fluid out from between the clutch and plates without slipping first. My best luck with the 727 was when running the blue grooved clutches and steels. My engine did not make a million HP or Torque but I have timeslips to proove I ran a lot faster than these guys think is possible with a 727. Maybe it is how they built their trannies.
Leon
I love the blue clutches, its all I run. I have seen guys run them with a lot of hp, but not every week all season off a trans brake. Most switched when trying to stay in the points every week, they weren't rotating the world, just good solid 10.20 cars. Maybe the VB makes the difference, I can't say.
What is the clean Neutral you guys are talking about?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Time for a glide or a TH400....Doubt the mopar trans will last at those levels....
A properly built 727 will last well over a full season at much more power.
My personal experience.....
Ran over 140MPH in the eighth at 3200 lbs 31X10.5W tires 4.10 rear gear. Used a Tranzact Pro brake with the clean neutral. Did not have to run a lot of line pressure either. 135 psi. When I had trouble burning up clutches it was when I tried other Valve Bodies. Get a Tranzact.
Also I know it against most of the Mopar communities advise.. but, I never had good results with the red clutches. The ones I ran were smooth. After running a powerglide I found that most in that arena do not run the smooth clutches due to the fact they, for lack of a better word, hydraplane. The smooth surface just can not properly squeeze the fluid out from between the clutch and plates without slipping first. My best luck with the 727 was when running the blue grooved clutches and steels. My engine did not make a million HP or Torque but I have timeslips to proove I ran a lot faster than these guys think is possible with a 727. Maybe it is how they built their trannies.
Leon
I love the blue clutches, its all I run. I have seen guys run them with a lot of hp, but not every week all season off a trans brake. Most switched when trying to stay in the points every week, they weren't rotating the world, just good solid 10.20 cars. Maybe the VB makes the difference, I can't say.
What is the clean Neutral you guys are talking about?
fwiw, a torqueflite will take INFINITE torque and power with the right parts. i agree on the blue clutches- they're excellent. valve bodies make a difference ime. clean neutral is a reverse valve body with an additional neutral beyond high gear- a cool thing.
Posted By: dannysbee
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 06:47 PM
A clean neutral will give you some where to go with a reverse pattern valve body if you sling the guts out of one in the top of second or third gear.
Posted By: dodgedude4x4
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 09:01 PM
Tranzact
Posted By: instigator
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 09:57 PM
I definetly like the idea of being able to go to neutral at the big end....
I got the red altos that are grooved..they are not smooth...And I was able to squeeze 7 of them instead of 5 into the front drum...and 5 into the rear drum instead of 4...
I already had a billet steel front drum, steel front planet, ultimate sprag, I had already machined the front drum feed hole in the pump support, and an A&A manual valvebody with a high pressure spring....I had the stock lever, I believe 3.4 (CRT recommended it since I had extra line pressure( never measured it though I definetly will this time) I have a 4.2 if I should go with it....
Posted By: Big Squeeze
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/28/11 11:18 PM
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/29/11 12:37 AM
I believe a TF727 with that amount of clutch plates and proper line pressure should hold up to that torque with no problem. Likely an issue somewhere else, seals, etc.
7/5 clutches and 160 psi will holds tons of torque, IMO.
I don't have that much (time and weight in sig), but I have 5/4 at 165 psi and they are lasting for many years. I think this is my 5th on the same parts and I have inspected a couple times.
Posted By: DusterW2
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/29/11 02:09 AM
"Clean Neutral" = N after 3rd that basically places the trans in neutral (all bands/clutches exhausted).
"Safety Neutral" = N after 3rd that exhausts all bands/clutches EXCEPT the direct clutch. This keeps all components rotating at engine rpm and does not allow the direct drum to spin out of control.
Check out 727Specialist on the board for Griner Engineering Transbrake 1222G20 or 1222G20B for band apply; 1222G25 or 1222G25B for Safety Neutral feature.
Posted By: Leon441
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/29/11 02:14 AM
Another comment I ran 4 front clutches and 4 rear.
Leon
Posted By: sdaurity
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/29/11 02:26 PM
I could run that many with nitrous, but had to stack the drums with the turbo for it to last.
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/29/11 04:37 PM
Quote:
I had already machined the front drum feed hole in the pump support...
Are you guys talking about the feed passage between the rings on the pump support (reaction support)? This applies/holds the front clutch pack.
I have seen a couple methods, including Griner's milling the space between the rings flat all the way down to the feed hole. This pic shows it simply "V" shaped to improve flow (during the engagement).
Posted By: sdaurity
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 06/29/11 04:45 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I had already machined the front drum feed hole in the pump support...
Are you guys talking about the feed passage between the rings on the pump support (reaction support)? This applies/holds the front clutch pack.
I have seen a couple methods, including Griner's milling the space between the rings flat all the way down to the feed hole. This pic shows it simply "V" shaped to improve flow (during the engagement).
Yes, I'm pretty sure they are. I had to use steel sealing rings and shim it up TIGHT (end play and clutches)and modify the drum for 7 clutches to keep high gear in more than one pass. Again this is around 1100 rwhp 3300lbs. I am going to turn it up somemore when I get it back out.
Posted By: Hutch
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 07/01/11 06:52 AM
Im no 727 guru but for what its worth here it is. You will need 175 psi , use the 4.2 arm and do not use more than 5 clutch's in the front drum. 4 in the rear drum should be fine but 5 won't hurt just be careful when rev tuning in neutral. More than 5 in the front will just slow the car down and likely burn up anyway with the thin steels.If the front clutch's are burning I would suggest you have a build error not a lack of clutch capacity. If its all melting down , I would look at oil level accuracy. If your trying to use a Lokar dipstick , take your time reading it carefully.
Hutch
Posted By: 72Challenger
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 07/01/11 07:46 AM
Quote:
You might talk to John @ CRT......I know he's in the middle of making a VB with a brake and it may be nearing completion..... 
+1
My buddy runs one of his 727's behind his 1200hp Hemi with no problems at all. Just a check in the off season and races the whole season again. Has lived in a 35-3600lbs roadrunner too.
Posted By: RADAMX
Re: 727 BURNT UP! - 07/01/11 02:23 PM
I found it is the perfect width to use a 12 inch chop saw and I just grind a shallow U-groove 1/2 down the hole for max flow.
not saying it is the safest way but I do it by hand in about 30 seconds.