CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker)

Posted By: ddart81

CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker) - 05/19/11 12:28 AM

Hi, I live in Brazil, and I and my friend have two small block dodges intented for drag races:

Dart 79
360 stroker (410 pol)
Scat I beams
Keith Black dome pistons
Edelbrock Super Victor
825 cfm demon race carb alky
12.5 compression
4 speed manual transmission
Edelbrock aluminum home ported cylinder heads
camshaft Hugues Engines solid flat taped HTL 6972 (268/272 at 0,50).
The car weights 2450 lbs race ready
The car actually makes 10.8 in the 1/4 mile, at 125 mph.

I have a Comp Cams solid roller camshaft 263/270 at 0,50. Do you think that the comp cams will be better than the Hugues? Would you suggest a better cam for this combo? I'll apreciate your help.

The other car is a Dodge Dart 74
396 pol (318 stroker)
W-2 cylinder heads ported by Ryan J. (admission 278.2 cfm and 183,6 exhaust, at .650 lift)
Ross Dome Pistons
Mopar M-1 intake for W-2
Hugues Engines camshaft 6872 (268/272 at 0.50)
The compression is 14,5: 1
The car wheigts 2350 lbs, race ready with driver, and the best time is 10.2 in 1/4 mile, at 132 mph
A friend sayed to us that the bore of a 318 is very little for this camshaft, what do you think? Would you suggest a better cam?

Both the car use methanol fuel, 4 speed manual transmission, 4.88 rear axle...

We'll apreciate the help very much... actually, the fastest dodge in Brazil with small block has 9.9 in 1.4 mile, and the fastest natural aspirated small block is a Ford Maverick, that does 9.1 in 1.4 mile... Thanks.

Attached picture 6640012-domingo2109.jpg

Attached picture 6640012-domingo2109.jpg

Posted By: 446acuda

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker) - 05/19/11 12:45 AM

Nice car! Do you have a picture to post of the '79 Dart? What 4 speed are you using?

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker) - 05/19/11 12:47 AM

I would talk to Tim Goolsby at Bullet cams, you may be near the point of port saturation (where you're using up the entire flow potential of the heads) but it's worth a shot to talk to him. Bullet owns the rights to the entire line of the old Ultradyne cams which are about the most violent power-making RACE cams I've ever worked with in my 32 years of mopars. Switching from a flat tappet grind to a solid roller cam should still be worth some power and your lobe spread may or may not be optimum for your particular combination. Generally a lighter deep geared 4 speeed car (which has less rpm drop between gears) can go to a wider seperation which lower mid range torque but can raise the RPM that peak torque and horsepower are achieved.

The flow potential of either head you have mentioned is going to be around 300 cfm (+/- 10) under all but the most skilled porting hands, this suggests just over 600-620 horsepower of flow potential so you may go faster with a bit more head and cam provided you have the induction and exhust to carry it.

Another great resource would be our own Dwayne Porter who goes by the name fast68plymouth here on Moparts, he's exceptionally cam-saavy as well

The 'small' 3.91" bore of the 318 often gets blamed for reducing performance compared to the much larger 340 4.04" bore, while a larger bore is advantageous in a wedge style head, the chevy 5.7" LS1 has the very same bore size and many near stock bore LS motors run very quick.

Posted By: ddart81

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker) - 05/19/11 12:55 AM

The picture of the other car... here in Brazil we use the original manual transmission Clark 260 F

Attached picture 6640061-553.jpg

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker) - 05/19/11 05:16 AM

Quote:

Hi, I live in Brazil, and I and my friend have two small block dodges intented for drag races:

Dart 79
360 stroker (410 pol)
Scat I beams
Keith Black dome pistons
Edelbrock Super Victor
825 cfm demon race carb alky
12.5 compression
4 speed manual transmission
Edelbrock aluminum home ported cylinder heads
camshaft Hugues Engines solid flat taped HTL 6972 (268/272 at 0,50).
The car weights 2450 lbs race ready
The car actually makes 10.8 in the 1/4 mile, at 125 mph.

I have a Comp Cams solid roller camshaft 263/270 at 0,50. Do you think that the comp cams will be better than the Hugues? Would you suggest a better cam for this combo? I'll apreciate your help.

The other car is a Dodge Dart 74
396 pol (318 stroker)
W-2 cylinder heads ported by Ryan J. (admission 278.2 cfm and 183,6 exhaust, at .650 lift)
Ross Dome Pistons
Mopar M-1 intake for W-2
Hugues Engines camshaft 6872 (268/272 at 0.50)
The compression is 14,5: 1
The car wheigts 2350 lbs, race ready with driver, and the best time is 10.2 in 1/4 mile, at 132 mph
A friend sayed to us that the bore of a 318 is very little for this camshaft, what do you think? Would you suggest a better cam?

Both the car use methanol fuel, 4 speed manual transmission, 4.88 rear axle...

We'll apreciate the help very much... actually, the fastest dodge in Brazil with small block has 9.9 in 1.4 mile, and the fastest natural aspirated small block is a Ford Maverick, that does 9.1 in 1.4 mile... Thanks.

The roller cam for the 410 should pick up about .3-.5 in the 1/4.

As for the 318, 132mph should go 9's...with that much compression you probably need more porting, unshroud the valve at the bore. How much intake porting was done? The victor is better and the Indy is best.
That cam is fine but a roller would pick up power a great deal.
Brian

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker) - 05/19/11 05:45 AM

Can you give us a 1/4 mile break down(time slip intervals)...
either one of those cars should be well into the 9's....
nice rides

Posted By: emarine01

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker) - 05/19/11 02:03 PM

We had around the same result as Brian posted on our 414, The roller works

Posted By: ddart81

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker) - 05/19/11 04:16 PM

Hi, Streetwize, thank you for you help. I'll try to call Bullet cams, I am very interested about the ultradyne cams... In Brazil, we don't have 340 or 360, they are very expensive to us, because all the dodges made in Brazil use 318...
The green dodge is Mine, and it weights 2450 lbs, and the white one has 2350 lbs... the difference is because the rules are different for iron cylinder heads and alluminum cylinder heads... the cars with iron heads can be lighter to follow the rules

Attached picture 6640937-462.jpg

Posted By: ddart81

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker) - 05/19/11 04:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hi, I live in Brazil, and I and my friend have two small block dodges intented for drag races:

Dart 79
360 stroker (410 pol)
Scat I beams
Keith Black dome pistons
Edelbrock Super Victor
825 cfm demon race carb alky
12.5 compression
4 speed manual transmission
Edelbrock aluminum home ported cylinder heads
camshaft Hugues Engines solid flat taped HTL 6972 (268/272 at 0,50).
The car weights 2450 lbs race ready
The car actually makes 10.8 in the 1/4 mile, at 125 mph.

I have a Comp Cams solid roller camshaft 263/270 at 0,50. Do you think that the comp cams will be better than the Hugues? Would you suggest a better cam for this combo? I'll apreciate your help.

The other car is a Dodge Dart 74
396 pol (318 stroker)
W-2 cylinder heads ported by Ryan J. (admission 278.2 cfm and 183,6 exhaust, at .650 lift)
Ross Dome Pistons
Mopar M-1 intake for W-2
Hugues Engines camshaft 6872 (268/272 at 0.50)
The compression is 14,5: 1
The car wheigts 2350 lbs, race ready with driver, and the best time is 10.2 in 1/4 mile, at 132 mph
A friend sayed to us that the bore of a 318 is very little for this camshaft, what do you think? Would you suggest a better cam?

Both the car use methanol fuel, 4 speed manual transmission, 4.88 rear axle...

We'll apreciate the help very much... actually, the fastest dodge in Brazil with small block has 9.9 in 1.4 mile, and the fastest natural aspirated small block is a Ford Maverick, that does 9.1 in 1.4 mile... Thanks.

The roller cam for the 410 should pick up about .3-.5 in the 1/4.

As for the 318, 132mph should go 9's...with that much compression you probably need more porting, unshroud the valve at the bore. How much intake porting was done? The victor is better and the Indy is best.
That cam is fine but a roller would pick up power a great deal.
Brian

The intake is almost regular, doesn't have extensive porting... Is very difficult to import parts for the cars here, because the taxes is 60% of the part and the freight, then is more or less 110% from the invoice price...I want to buy the indy/rhs ported heads with you, could you quote the freight for the zip code 13465-660?

Posted By: ddart81

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker) - 05/19/11 04:32 PM

Quote:

Can you give us a 1/4 mile break down(time slip intervals)...
either one of those cars should be well into the 9's....
nice rides

Thank you...
The white Dodge in 1/8 mile: 1.468 (60 feet) 4.368 (100 m) ------- 6.756 (1/8 mile) 164.9 km/h (102 mph)
The greed Dodge in 1/8 mile: 1.502 (60 feet) 4.46 (100 m) 7.0 (1/8 mile) 11.0 at 125 mph in the 1/4 mile

Posted By: dart_73_br

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker - 05/20/11 03:12 AM

Hey, say to your buddy there are 2 more stroked W2s ported by Rj going to Brazil to chase him!

Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker - 05/20/11 03:24 AM

Man I love those cars, especially the roof line. Really nice and they run pretty darn good now.

Posted By: ddart81

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker - 05/20/11 04:00 AM

Quote:

Hey, say to your buddy there are 2 more stroked W2s ported by Rj going to Brazil to chase him!

I'll do that!!! eles vao gostar de saber disso, mais dodges na arrancada! abs

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker) - 05/20/11 04:10 AM

Both of you need to tune the chassis... you both should
have better 60' times.... I dont recall the converters
on both cars ... but you weigh less than my car
(2405# race weight)and I run a 405ci with a normal
60' of 1.21... best is a 1.19.... granted a roller
cam will make more power but I believe you both have
chassis issues
EDIT
I forgot... your both 4 speed cars

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker - 05/20/11 04:23 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hey, say to your buddy there are 2 more stroked W2s ported by Rj going to Brazil to chase him!

I'll do that!!! eles vao gostar de saber disso, mais dodges na arrancada! abs

Can you translate your sentence ... I dont know
Portuguese .... just curious

Posted By: Stroker Scamp

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker - 05/20/11 04:34 AM

those are some real cool cars, kinda neat to see what other parts of the world run

Posted By: ddart81

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker - 05/20/11 04:52 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Hey, say to your buddy there are 2 more stroked W2s ported by Rj going to Brazil to chase him!

I'll do that!!! eles vao gostar de saber disso, mais dodges na arrancada! abs

Can you translate your sentence ... I dont know
Portuguese .... just curious

I only said that I and my friend in Brazil will be happy... Here, we have less than 10 dodges in Drag Races, and the white one, built by Gemeos Racing, my friends, is one of the 3 bests...Actually, a Maverick, with engine built by Joe Sherman is winning all the races, and a Chevy Opala with six inline is the second faster car (weight is 1900 lbs).

Posted By: 70AARcuda

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker - 05/20/11 05:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hey, say to your buddy there are 2 more stroked W2s ported by Rj going to Brazil to chase him!

I'll do that!!! eles vao gostar de saber disso, mais dodges na arrancada! abs

I am Portuguese and can not read it either...

Posted By: dart_73_br

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker - 05/20/11 05:23 AM

Quote:

I am Portuguese and can not read it either...

Really? We are braziliams...

Posted By: dart_73_br

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker - 05/20/11 05:28 AM

Quote:

Actually, a Maverick, with engine built by Joe Sherman is winning all the races, and a Chevy Opala with six inline is the second faster car (weight is 1900 lbs).

Yes man, it's really sad to see 6cc engines going faster than our Mopars..

They have better heads (braziliam stockcars used chevy 6cc for a long time) do a lot of stuff (nitromethane, etc..) and we just with our 318 ported heads + big carburator.,... etc... thats sad... thats why we need this forum... good heads as W2s.. and so on...

Also is very hard for us.. because of customs taxes... if a stroker kit costs USD2k here in US... will arrive there for 4k... and so on... but we�ll gonna do it... and these guys is already doing it!

Posted By: dart_73_br

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker) - 05/20/11 08:30 PM

Quote:

I forgot... your both 4 speed cars

Changing to auto tranny should pick something?

Posted By: cbarracuda

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker - 05/21/11 02:10 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Actually, a Maverick, with engine built by Joe Sherman is winning all the races, and a Chevy Opala with six inline is the second faster car (weight is 1900 lbs).

Yes man, it's really sad to see 6cc engines going faster than our Mopars..

They have better heads (braziliam stockcars used chevy 6cc for a long time) do a lot of stuff (nitromethane, etc..) and we just with our 318 ported heads + big carburator.,... etc... thats sad... thats why we need this forum... good heads as W2s.. and so on...

W2 are great heads. Here in Peru we also pay tax for our parts and we pay about 60% more because of tax and shipping(taxes are about 22%). How fast are those Chevys in Brasil? I'm an engine builder and I like Mopars. We do low 10s at the track and 9s if we are lucky and they prepare the track half way decent.
We are four guys who are gonna be driving to Chile to race the ExpoCarreras. It�s a very important race in South america and it lasts for about 4 days and a thousand cars compete to qualify. They are building a highway that will connect Peru to Brasil, maybe when it's finished we will drive there too. Did you hear about the Argentinian VW pickup that does 9s, that went to Brasil to race?
Good luck on your proyect

Posted By: ddart81

Re: CAMSHAFT FOR 410 (360 stroker) and 396 (318 stroker - 05/22/11 06:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Actually, a Maverick, with engine built by Joe Sherman is winning all the races, and a Chevy Opala with six inline is the second faster car (weight is 1900 lbs).

Yes man, it's really sad to see 6cc engines going faster than our Mopars..

They have better heads (braziliam stockcars used chevy 6cc for a long time) do a lot of stuff (nitromethane, etc..) and we just with our 318 ported heads + big carburator.,... etc... thats sad... thats why we need this forum... good heads as W2s.. and so on...

W2 are great heads. Here in Peru we also pay tax for our parts and we pay about 60% more because of tax and shipping(taxes are about 22%). How fast are those Chevys in Brasil? I'm an engine builder and I like Mopars. We do low 10s at the track and 9s if we are lucky and they prepare the track half way decent.
We are four guys who are gonna be driving to Chile to race the ExpoCarreras. It�s a very important race in South america and it lasts for about 4 days and a thousand cars compete to qualify. They are building a highway that will connect Peru to Brasil, maybe when it's finished we will drive there too. Did you hear about the Argentinian VW pickup that does 9s, that went to Brasil to race?
Good luck on your proyect

Yes, I know the Argentinian VW pickup that does 9 seconds, it is very fast, but actually the best time in that category (allowed turbo, nitro, etc) is 8.5 seconds, with a Chevy Vectra (4 cylinder turbo front wheel drive).
About Chevy Opalas, the best six inline all motor (natural aspirated) does 9.6 in 1/4 mile, and the six inline in dragsters does 6.9 sec in 1/4 mile (with dual turbo).
Thanks man, good luck to you too.