Moparts
Big Block or Gen III Hemi?
Posted By: cagebob1
Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/20/11 04:59 AM
After lurking here as an unregistered guest for several years, and then still lurking as a registered member for a few more, I've come to the conclusion that there are some very smart people on this site. With that said, I've decided I'm ready to solicit some opinions. I'm getting ready to finally start construction on my "bucket list" race car. My question is: If you were going to build a tube chassis car, and had pretty much no parts at this time, would you build a 500+inch wedge or a gen III Hemi? Max horsepower expectation would eventually be about 900hp, but not for a few years.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/20/11 06:43 AM
Quote:
After lurking here as an unregistered guest for several years, and then still lurking as a registered member for a few more, I've come to the conclusion that there are some very smart people on this site. With that said, I've decided I'm ready to solicit some opinions. I'm getting ready to finally start construction on my "bucket list" race car. My question is: If you were going to build a tube chassis car, and had pretty much no parts at this time, would you build a 500+inch wedge or a gen III Hemi? Max horsepower expectation would eventually be about 900hp, but not for a few years.
I'm a old wedge guy from way back so my choice, based on personel expereinces would be the 500+ C.I. wedge, probally 4.500 bore by 4.250 stroke with a new race block and a real good set of heads, B1 or Predators.
You really should make a decision on which motor to use before buying any partsThe new Gen3 Hemi have the potential to make a lot of power also 
The choice is yours to make
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/20/11 02:02 PM
Good question.
Are you considering a ProCharged, or supercharged Gen III?
I think it will still be cheaper and easier to build a 511-572 CID, B1 headed, big block wedge. Get a 4.500" bore World (MP) block (aluminum if you have the money), 4.25-4.50" stroke crankshaft, and some B1 original heads and you have 900 hp for roughly $15,000.
But the Gen III would be really cool, light weight, etc. And I think with a small ProCharger or supercharger it could be the future.
Posted By: domingo
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/20/11 04:50 PM
Old School will be cheaper. And easier not to screw up and make a $$$ mistake. There is lots more knowledge around on the old motors.
Id build a wedge using an aftermarket 4.5" block some Indy or B1 heads.
Posted By: chryco
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/20/11 06:28 PM
Quote:
After lurking here as an unregistered guest for several years, and then still lurking as a registered member for a few more, I've come to the conclusion that there are some very smart people on this site. With that said, I've decided I'm ready to solicit some opinions. I'm getting ready to finally start construction on my "bucket list" race car. My question is: If you were going to build a tube chassis car, and had pretty much no parts at this time, would you build a 500+inch wedge or a gen III Hemi? Max horsepower expectation would eventually be about 900hp, but not for a few years.
If it`s your "bucket List" car, why not go Gen II Hemi ? I did , and have never regretted it .
Chryco
Posted By: cagebob1
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/20/11 10:41 PM
Thanks for the input!
Cab - I'm a big block wedge guy from way back also. I know how easy it is to get stuck in the past, and feel that I must at least consider new technology ( distributor less ignition and EFI ).
Jim - I'm not opposed to the idea of forced induction down the road if that's what it takes to get the power desired, and I agree that it would have some cool points!
domingo- No doubt about fewer new trails to blaze and the opportunity for expensive mistakes
Chryco - Isn't a Gen II Hemi really expensive?
Posted By: 6bblFLASH
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/20/11 11:59 PM
Old BB stuff is cheaper and easy to copy someone elses build
, HOWEVER if I could sell my 3-race motors and my 11-spare 440`s/parts etc.... I would be building a new HEMI with a pro-charger like tommorrow!!!!!!!
I`ve been intrigued with the new stuff for quite a while.
To me the old stuff is just that "old".
Either way do what you think will satisfy your needs.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/21/11 12:40 AM
Easier and cheaper would be a boosted wedge.
Posted By: chryco
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/21/11 01:23 AM
Quote:
Thanks for the input!
Cab - I'm a big block wedge guy from way back also. I know how easy it is to get stuck in the past, and feel that I must at least consider new technology ( distributor less ignition and EFI ).
Jim - I'm not opposed to the idea of forced induction down the road if that's what it takes to get the power desired, and I agree that it would have some cool points!
domingo- No doubt about fewer new trails to blaze and the opportunity for expensive mistakes
Chryco - Isn't a Gen II Hemi really expensive?
How fast do you want to go ?
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/21/11 01:44 AM
If your goal is 900 hp in the future, the cheapest route is to start with those parts. You can do it with B1 heads, or 572-13 heads, or even 440-1 heads. But the latter is going to require that you have all the tricks to get there. that equals $$$. My cheapest recipe would be to locate a used set of B1 heads that flow well ( good porting work) and put them on a 540 557 or 572 shortblock. The deal won't have to be real exotic to get 900 hp.
Posted By: fishy340
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/21/11 02:23 AM
Quote:
After lurking here as an unregistered guest for several years, and then still lurking as a registered member for a few more, I've come to the conclusion that there are some very smart people on this site. With that said, I've decided I'm ready to solicit some opinions. I'm getting ready to finally start construction on my "bucket list" race car. My question is: If you were going to build a tube chassis car, and had pretty much no parts at this time, would you build a 500+inch wedge or a gen III Hemi? Max horsepower expectation would eventually be about 900hp, but not for a few years.
BONDO BOB had a killer hemi for sale,maybe still does
Posted By: 6bblFLASH
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/22/11 02:29 AM
What car are you putting it in?
Posted By: domingo
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/22/11 02:34 AM
Posted By: HEMIDARTS
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/22/11 02:36 AM
Quote:
Quote:
After lurking here as an unregistered guest for several years, and then still lurking as a registered member for a few more, I've come to the conclusion that there are some very smart people on this site. With that said, I've decided I'm ready to solicit some opinions. I'm getting ready to finally start construction on my "bucket list" race car. My question is: If you were going to build a tube chassis car, and had pretty much no parts at this time, would you build a 500+inch wedge or a gen III Hemi? Max horsepower expectation would eventually be about 900hp, but not for a few years.
BONDO BOB had a killer hemi for sale,maybe still does
That HEMI was a heck of a deal, dirt cheap!! 
I would go with the new Gen 3 HEMI!
people have proved its not hard to make the power with them.
I regret building another LA motor instead of the newer HEMI! 
Posted By: cagebob1
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/22/11 03:38 AM
The chassis for this project is to be a light weight tube chassis (Dave Morgan would call it a ballerina)...RX7. Yea, I know it's not a mopar body, but it was free, and besides that, it should be good for aggravating the ricers! My ultimate goal is to run a 7.99 et, hence the 900hp goal...down the road a few $$$$. The Gen III Hemi looks to have a lot of potential and I think it would be cheaper and lighter than a Gen II Hemi, or at least smaller! That's why I'm looking for opinions
Posted By: 6bblFLASH
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/22/11 12:11 PM
WOW!
If the budget allows in something that light and small I would say Gen-3
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/22/11 12:23 PM
Quote:
The chassis for this project is to be a light weight tube chassis (Dave Morgan would call it a ballerina)...RX7. Yea, I know it's not a mopar body, but it was free, and besides that, it should be good for aggravating the ricers! My ultimate goal is to run a 7.99 et, hence the 900hp goal...down the road a few $$$$. The Gen III Hemi looks to have a lot of potential and I think it would be cheaper and lighter than a Gen II Hemi, or at least smaller! That's why I'm looking for opinions
The Gen III would be cheaper and lighter/smaller than Gen II. They do make some good power adders for them now. You going to run it N/A? Boost? Spray?
Posted By: cagebob1
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/22/11 01:54 PM
the plan would be to run it n/a, but I'm not opposed to a procharger if that's what it takes to achieve to reach my goals.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/22/11 02:05 PM
Quote:
the plan would be to run it n/a, but I'm not opposed to a procharger if that's what it takes to achieve to reach my goals.
I think in the long run it would be cheaper and make a more reliable car. With boost you don't need to wind the pee out of the engine, use big lift cams, huge stalls or tall gears. My buddy runs a Plymouth TC3 (omni) chassis car. He has a W5 headed 392 SB. He uses 10-12lbs of boost (big turbo, no inner-cooler) 4200 stall and 3.73 gears. He has run 8.20's at 175. The car could run 7's if he jumped up the boost and wanted to use the trans brake.
Posted By: cagebob1
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/22/11 02:19 PM
That's the type of feedback I was looking for. I've always been a N/A big block guy, but I think it's time to embrace the new technology
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/22/11 03:31 PM
Quote:
That's the type of feedback I was looking for. I've always been a N/A big block guy, but I think it's time to embrace the new technology
I boosted a very mild 440 w/ an old SN-2000 Paxton and dropped my et by a full second and picked up 10mph on only 6psi of boost. It had zero effects on drivabilty (is that a word) and probably would have done better w/ less gear (3.73 vs. the 3.91's) If the motor in this goes south it will get 8.8:1 pistons and 8-10lbs of boost. It was like having a 100-150 shoot ALL the time.
Posted By: haddixj
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/22/11 10:21 PM
if your doing a Rx7 why not put an LS based motor in it? its been done and a proven combo. Not to say the gen III isnt good but if your starting from square 1 go with the LS, people making that HP easy on stock blocks and some cranks. FWIW I have a 70 duster tube chassis car and my new motor is a 582 BBC dart block BMF heads I am at 10K OTD dynoed. I priced out the mopar stuff B1 heads are like 7k a short block is 7k just adds up and wont be as much HP for the dollar. All that said a gen II hemi would be the most eye catching.
ohh and what year is the RX7? If its 93+ check out hinson cars they make all the stuff to put the LS in without tube chassis
Posted By: maximum entropy
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/22/11 11:51 PM
Quote:
The chassis for this project is to be a light weight tube chassis (Dave Morgan would call it a ballerina)...RX7.
rx7 i vote genIII! that would be KILLA!
Posted By: cagebob1
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/23/11 12:02 AM
Sorry nothing personal, but I'd rather continue to race my 12 second cuda than use chevy power. I'm a mopar guy all the way. This car will have a torqueflite trans and a dana 60 rear end. It has to be a tube chassis to be as light as I'm shooting for. If you look at the overall shape of this car, it's very close to a daytona.
Posted By: Garceau
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/23/11 12:10 AM
Have fun....should be interesting. Keep us informed.
LS1s are crazy these days. Them heads are wicked.
Im intrigued by the new style hemi for a project as well.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/23/11 01:16 AM
Quote:
if your doing a Rx7 why not put an LS based motor in it? its been done and a proven combo. Not to say the gen III isnt good but if your starting from square 1 go with the LS, people making that HP easy on stock blocks and some cranks. FWIW I have a 70 duster tube chassis car and my new motor is a 582 BBC dart block BMF heads I am at 10K OTD dynoed. I priced out the mopar stuff B1 heads are like 7k a short block is 7k just adds up and wont be as much HP for the dollar. All that said a gen II hemi would be the most eye catching.
ohh and what year is the RX7? If its 93+ check out hinson cars they make all the stuff to put the LS in without tube chassis
might as well hang a chevy II shell on it and call it a day.
Posted By: patrick
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/23/11 11:44 AM
Quote:
Chryco - Isn't a Gen II Hemi really expensive?
not really any more expensive than a wedge once you start talking aftermarket blocks/cranks/heads...rocker gear is about the only thing more expensive at that point because you're buying 2x the components
for a light small car like the RX7, I think I'd be inclined to a genIII hemi...
Posted By: 540challenger
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/23/11 01:06 PM
Quote:
if your doing a Rx7 why not put an LS based motor in it? its been done and a proven combo. Not to say the gen III isnt good but if your starting from square 1 go with the LS, people making that HP easy on stock blocks and some cranks. FWIW I have a 70 duster tube chassis car and my new motor is a 582 BBC dart block BMF heads I am at 10K OTD dynoed. I priced out the mopar stuff B1 heads are like 7k a short block is 7k just adds up and wont be as much HP for the dollar. All that said a gen II hemi would be the most eye catching.
ohh and what year is the RX7? If its 93+ check out hinson cars they make all the stuff to put the LS in without tube chassis
THe power he is looking to make even the Ls guys don't run that much power through a stock block. Must from what i seen you the LQ truck block "cast iron" but then upgrade"the smart ones" to the LSX Block around the 600HP mark. I know the stock "ported" G3 Hemi heads were able to make 700HP from N/A and the new 6.4L heads are even better still however the block is another question as i am not sure how much they can handle but Mopar does have a ALum race block for the 3rd G hemi
Posted By: haddixj
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 03/23/11 02:40 PM
good luck with the build.
Posted By: Racer426
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 04/04/11 02:58 AM
I vote for the GenIII initially, with anything but a Turbo later.
But I think there is a bigger problem that hasn't been mentioned.
A 95" wheelbase car with 900HP running 7.99 is SCARY - SCARY - SCARY!!!!
That's why virtually all of the Dodge Colt Pro Stockers Crashed.
If you really want to run 7.99's, I think you need at least 108".
Posted By: hemidup
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 04/04/11 04:01 AM
I vote for the Gen III Hemi. While freshening up our Gen II Hemi in the 64 Lightweight we decided to weigh it. The old iron headed girl weighed in at 720 lbs. When we pulled the Gen III Hemi out of our 09 Challenger Drag Pak and weighed it. She came in at a whooping 460 lbs! And the all aluminum Gen III Hemi race blocks are reported to weigh 90 lbs lighter. 370 lbs for an engine that we can make almost as much or more hp/tq as the Gen II Hemi fat girl. If the old race Hemi ever decides to give up the ghost, a Gen III Hemi will take its place.
Posted By: cagebob1
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 04/04/11 04:44 AM
I do have plans to stretch the wheelbase. I'm not sure if it needs to be 108" though. The 2011 NHRA rule book only requires ProStock cars to be 104" minimum, and we know how fast they run! Right now I'm leaning towards the GenIII Hemi. Is there a market for my never been fired 500" mopar crate engine?
Posted By: Racer426
Re: Big Block or Gen III Hemi? - 04/04/11 06:06 PM
And if today's pro stockers don't have perfect traction like Phoenix last year, they crash. They are running on the edge right now.
I've drag raced a short wheelbase car and they are not Fun.