NGK Plugs ?

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are you saying there is no truth to my statement? thats just my experience,, ive done it a few times on my dyno and its always worth power

in a ss hemi gained 10
in a ss 427 chevy gained 10
in a pump gas small chevy gained 6
in a 480 cubic inch fe pump gas was worth 8
in a 505 bb mopar pump gas was worth 6

all average power numbers which is all i ever look at

so i built a small blk ford motor for a guy local who works for the prince of quatar(alanabi guy),, so he is hooked up with shannon jenkins from some nitrous company,, i told my customer to run autolite plugs but they didnt cause they later told me i didnt tell them a part number,,, so they ran ngk,, so they went down south and shannon told them to go to the store and get some autolite plugs cause they make more power than ngk plugs,,, so they did cause they were told to by two totaly different sources. its a 360 cubic inch 8.2 deck ford with tfs heads in a 2900lb car, clutchless 5 spd,, nitrous,, been 7.80's at 180something

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I have a hard time believing this to but hopefully he's right that will be the cheapest horspower I have made in a while

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Horse power TV always makes that type of power increase with the plug of the month

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I have ran both the AR 3911 and the NGK 7173 both extended tip only change was plug in my case car ran same et but with the AR 3911 I gained 1 mph and the car idles much better this was back to back test same day 30 minutes apart.

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I have ran both the AR 3911 and the NGK 7173 both extended tip only change was plug in my case car ran same et but with the AR 3911 I gained 1 mph and the car idles much better this was back to back test same day 30 minutes apart.

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Woody... whats the compression on your engine... was
that with the W-5s

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it works for me,,, i have my own dyno,, it repeats.... party on guys

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Thanks for the info Jeff.

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from my experience with the AR's I would give them a try they have been great in mine.

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Since I'm not familiar with their plugs number wise
what would you suggest..... 11:1 engine
thanks

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I may also try a set being I usually start with new set of plugs anyways I have used NGK in the past but never really tried back to back test before with them one question I have is a lot of people are recommending heat ranges based on compresion ratio alone but isnt cam selection a huge factor being cylinder presure is determined largely by cam duration and compresion ratio. just a thought

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It is... its cylinder pressure... but for me the
11:1 which it is based on the area its a good place
to start... thats why I said I'll see how they act

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feel the same
HOGWASH is a good word i had a diffrent word but it would be bleep out
but do carry on the b s
i'm getting a good laugh

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Well Jeff has FACTS to back up what he said..... lets
see what you have.... not that I am a believer or not

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Thought this was April fools till i realised it's a few weeks away.

Plug INITIATES the burn , that's all it does , too cold a plug for the application 'may' leave a 'tad' power on the table due to unburnt fuel residing in base of plug , then you have too hot a plug 'may' leave a 'tad' power on the table due to mixure being lit off 'slightly' earlier , pretty 'negligible' which ever way you look at it.

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Ok... weather I believe or not, how do you explain
the difference in HP on the dyno and the better idle
quality if they are a straight change heat range wise
and I do understand the principles of the plug

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right the ar plug has a cut back ground strap and the ngk does not,, you usually run a tighter plug gap with a cut back strap,, like .025-.030 as compared to .045-.050 with a full strap

maybe you should go work for champion since i have about 4 styles of plugs from them, same heat range, with full strap, cut back strap, fine wire electrode, and no ground strap.. imagine how much money you would save them in engineering and production by knowing what works without actually testing anything and all that matters is the heat range

or maybe a pro stock team,, those guys have like 10 sets of carbs,, when all a carb does is flow air and "spray" the fuel into the airstream based on booster draw and emulsion,,, youd think all they need is one set,, lots of $ saving there if you only buy one set,, the possibilities are endless if you know the answer and testing is not needed

so now we have three totally independent guys who own dynos and test that say the same thing,, must be a conspiracy

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Why do..."..you usually run a tighter gap with a cut back strap.."??
They come out of the box tighter,,but you don't have to run them that tight and I don't. I gap them the same as regular strap plugs. Work better with wider gap too,,especially with alcohol.

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Plug gap is dependant on cylinder pressure/voltage , those cut-back plugs are/were 'marketed' for high HP motors running high cylinder pressures , hence the tighter gap.............some guys on here running NGKs will be pulling em out & cutting the straps back , will also go through two sets of cut-backs to one set of standard type plugs...........maybe the cut-backs worked better in you're application due to problems elsewhere , might not gain in every application , the NGK 'V' series plug definatly did'nt help regards my combo.

With respect.

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I never seen the V or 4 point grounds do anything for
power but did get a lot longer life out of them...
I had a set given to me for my street rod(I would
have never bought a set)... same principle ... electricity
goes to the easiest ground path

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Thought this was April fools till i realised it's a few weeks away.

Plug INITIATES the burn , that's all it does , too cold a plug for the application 'may' leave a 'tad' power on the table due to unburnt fuel residing in base of plug , then you have too hot a plug 'may' leave a 'tad' power on the table due to mixure being lit off 'slightly' earlier , pretty 'negligible' which ever way you look at it.

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i think you can make out anything you want, and put what ever numbers that are in line with that, to be the truth.
still when you talk of ngk race vs ar race plug and all you do is change the plug , you cannot , will not gain 10 hp peroid !!
the only way it could add any hp is if that cyl (s) wasnt fireing , or plug(s)fouled!!
if this was any kind of a true senario, ngk, motorcraft, denso, bosch,
ac delco, pulsar, and any other plug co, would be out of buisness tommorrow over such a find , it would be historic perportion in the racing world
OOOO MY GOD ,, my prayes have been answered ,!! all i need to do is buy set of $ 15.00 plugs
please keep this going i can see people throwing out there plugs now

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so if you had a back to back test, between v and std, say it,, just dont say im wrong,,, tell what you found..

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I did say it , no power gain using NGK BCRES over the 'V' series NGK , just talking out loud which had nothing to do with autolites.

I personally don't use the autolite plug due to it being harder to read (nitrous) , i prefer the NGK being the fuse as opposed the piston with the autolites.............maybe you got lucky the way the autilite was indexed as opposed to NGK.

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What plug number would it take for
a steel headed bb mopar, with a 3/8" reach, and a
13/16 wrench size, I have ran NGK'S for several seasons,
and would like to do some testing with the autolites,
and see if there is anything there?????????????

Thanks
Dave

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but moved on to bigger things,, like working on controling the valvetrain,, or ring seal

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Maybe you changed plugs after working on this.

Only messing around , could'nt resist.

BTW , how do you know indexing did't help?

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one question I have is a lot of people are recommending heat ranges based on compresion ratio alone but isnt cam selection a huge factor being cylinder presure is determined largely by cam duration and compresion ratio. just a thought

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Plug heat range for a particular engine is just a guess on the tuners part , & you're correct regards cylinder pressure , what plug works in one motor running 11:1 won't necesarily be correct for another motor running similar CR , this is why reading plugs will be the deciding factor.

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Thought this was April fools till i realised it's a few weeks away.

Plug INITIATES the burn , that's all it does , too cold a plug for the application 'may' leave a 'tad' power on the table due to unburnt fuel residing in base of plug , then you have too hot a plug 'may' leave a 'tad' power on the table due to mixure being lit off 'slightly' earlier , pretty 'negligible' which ever way you look at it.

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Wow, great read guys

Could I bother you to make suggestions on my engine too?

440 .40 over, stealth heads, 9.5:1 compression..
thanks

Mike

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yep just buy some autolite plugs that will do it
lmao

ooo and please ,, if you do have any more secrets like autolite plugs , keep that one , to youre self, that way noone will know why youre car picked up that 2-3 mph and that 1-2 tenths,
and you can charge a guy a bunch of money when you work on his car and make it go faster .
wonder if it makes a diffrence if i was to use motorcraft plugs??
but they said only autolites mmm

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mr p i'm sorry i great respect for you ,,
but this is just plain outright b s ,
as i have posted before, you cannot gain up to 10 hp
over any plug by autolites, plugs,,
not unless that plug not firing, or is in the wrong heat rang
indexes is not what it all is either, yes min gain and the work to do it , yes some motors you have to index,
sometimes yes 7-10 hp doesnt take alot for a motor to pick that up,
air quality, wind,
when its on a dyno, and that statement comes out i will go back
and say, that the plugs are bad, just as a set of wires can have to much resitance and have the same effect,
other than delivering the ign to fire that cyl, thats what the plug will do
my testing has come from the track,i have used 100s of plugs ,at the track & on my own, i have used autolites, motorgraft, ngk champion, bosch, ac delco, i have yet to see any plug, pick up over the other !
i have run gas and now alcohol, i have change plugs at will, on both
yet to see even so much as a hundreth of a pick up,
if a guy has a gas fouled , oil fouled ,etc plugs yes he will see a pickup yes even on a dyno,

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If David Vizard's input is of any value on this subject, here's something I found when he was testing a different brand of plugs than Autolite:

"Up to this point, an Autolite plug had consistently out-powered everything else we tried... The baseline Autolite plugs used in the test produced two more horsepower (but sometimes more) than most other plugs we tested. However, plug testing can reveal some unexpected results inasmuch as one or two brands that work perfectly in a similar engine don’t pass muster and could be as much as 10 hp down."

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All I can add is that when I did back-to-back tests between the standard Autolite and the AR series in the same heat range, my car picked up about .5 MPH w/ no other change.

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are you saying there is no truth to my statement? thats just my experience,, ive done it a few times on my dyno and its always worth power

in a ss hemi gained 10
in a ss 427 chevy gained 10
in a pump gas small chevy gained 6
in a 480 cubic inch fe pump gas was worth 8
in a 505 bb mopar pump gas was worth 6

all average power numbers which is all i ever look at

so i built a small blk ford motor for a guy local who works for the prince of quatar(alanabi guy),, so he is hooked up with shannon jenkins from some nitrous company,, i told my customer to run autolite plugs but they didnt cause they later told me i didnt tell them a part number,,, so they ran ngk,, so they went down south and shannon told them to go to the store and get some autolite plugs cause they make more power than ngk plugs,,, so they did cause they were told to by two totaly different sources. its a 360 cubic inch 8.2 deck ford with tfs heads in a 2900lb car, clutchless 5 spd,, nitrous,, been 7.80's at 180something

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i will believe that there might be a minisque diff in some plugs
as in heat range tips lenghts , ets but to come make bold statements
that this plug will make more hp than the same equivalent plug from diffrent plug manufacture , is totally without merit ,
now if youre testing a totaly diffrent plug vs a racing style plug
with diffrent heat range , then i will believe some of youre statement!
other than that, show me dyno results with no other changes than
that of a plug change, using the same indexing , timing, etc
just a plug change thats all ,, lets see the results!!

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i belive he did show you with the diff types of engines he ran. now if you are calling him a liar because you didnt see it in person thats your problem. im positive that jeff dosent have anyhing to lie about.

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Seriously. This is just a waste of time to get into stupid pissing contests over this stuff.

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you just figured out that goes on over here

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I found for a fact they idle better in my motor than the NGK so that works for me.

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I'm hearing a few say this.................most guys won't waste money changing plugs out unless the plug is past it's sell-by date or the engine is running intermitant , the logic here is the gap between ground strap & electrode has grown (worn) , this can cause slight misfires due to the increased voltage necessary to jump the gap , will also reduce the time period of spark , guys happy cos he fits a new set of plugs wherby the gap is correct & the misfire disappears , if these plugs happen to be a different brand the guy gets sold on em .....................just another angle on things , not bashing anyone.

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would 6hp improvement show on a time slip?

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... you might see a few thousandth but
you might think its anything(wind, temp).... but both
seen MPH

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mr obvious here first time listner first time caller
sorry dont have that dyno in my back pocket, ,
just have a 1320 errrrrr

This is the kind of crap that really gets on my nerves on here. When well known and respective people with real world experience give their input on a subject and somebody disagree's because he's changed 100's of plugs at the track and seen no difference. I'm sure Jeff and Brian don't have stock in autolite plugs so why would they lie and if you have changed 100's of plugs at the track and not seen any difference going from one style to the next or one heat rang to another maybe you should start your own post on how to read plugs.

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Ditto; was trying to stay out of this but he`s like that pesky fly that keeps flying around that you try to squash but can`t......been that way from his very first posts. Get a life homey.

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then I would say go climb back under the rock.

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You're the 2nd one to say that , just gotta go find that rock.

Looks like i'm goin with the flow & gonna start using autolites , guess the BS does'nt wash on here , interesting thread.