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"C" clip eliminators.

Posted By: Crizila

"C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 02:12 AM

Who has installed them in a 9 1/4? Are they necessary for an 11 second car? Thanks, John
Posted By: POS Dakota

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 02:46 AM

Posted By: fishy340

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 03:03 AM

DIDNT THINK MOPAR REARS HAS C CLIPS
Posted By: 6440nssa

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 03:10 AM

All 8.25 and 9.25 chrysler rear axles have c-clips.
Posted By: fishy340

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 03:11 AM

I learned today,so thats a good thing
Posted By: Adobedude

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 03:23 AM

Quote:

Who has installed them in a 9 1/4? Are they necessary for an 11 second car? Thanks, John




No c-clip eliminators for a 9.25.
Posted By: fishy340

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 03:25 AM

im confused c clips or no c clips on those rears?
Posted By: Adobedude

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 03:27 AM

No c-clip eliminators.
Posted By: Dart1031

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 03:30 AM

Quote:

Who has installed them in a 9 1/4? Are they necessary for an 11 second car? Thanks, John




I don't think you need them until you're in the 10's. I've been 11.50's with a 7.5" GM 10 bolt with stock axles and c-clips and no one asked about the eliminators.
Posted By: slantzilla

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 03:43 AM

Call Moser. If they don't have some they can probably make you some.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 02:59 PM

Quote:

Call Moser. If they don't have some they can probably make you some.


Thanks big D. Will do. When ever I pull the axles to do diff work I always inspect them and they always look good - no wear on the "C" clips or axle grooves that the clips ride in. They just make me a little knowing that if one were to break, ------------------->.
Posted By: Commando1

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 03:28 PM

I'm a tad under-informed on this.
Can't see how you can run it w/o the C clips.
Posted By: BobR

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 04:05 PM

Quote:

I'm a tad under-informed on this.
Can't see how you can run it w/o the C clips.





The eliminator kit makes the axles bolt in like the Dana. NHRA requires them for cars running 10.99 and under.
Posted By: Adobedude

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 04:23 PM

Fast Dakota guys running the 9.25 have been all over this for years...Never been resolved, no one has ever had any made, if were that simple I'm certain they would have. Maybe the cost is too much.
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 04:24 PM

I would replace the housing ends and run custom axles with Green wheel bearings.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 04:38 PM

Quote:

Fast Dakota guys running the 9.25 have been all over this for years...Never been resolved, no one has ever had any made, if were that simple I'm certain they would have. Maybe the cost is too much.


Has there been lots of breakage?
Posted By: Adobedude

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 04:41 PM

That's what they are doing...
Posted By: Adobedude

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 04:44 PM

Nope...9.2s5 will take a lot of abuse. Stock LSDs are junk, guys have shreadded a few gears....typical stuff.

I want to ditch mine so I can run a spool. those aren't available either. Right now I have a locker.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/22/11 07:12 PM

Quote:

Nope...9.2s5 will take a lot of abuse. Stock LSDs are junk, guys have shreadded a few gears....typical stuff.

I want to ditch mine so I can run a spool. those aren't available either. Right now I have a locker.


I'm running the same clutch pack thats in the Dana 60's. On my second clutch pack, but they seem to hold up pretty well. Per Randy's, new clutch pack should have a breakaway torque of 70 - 80 lbs. When it gets down to 20, time for a new clutch pack.
Posted By: Commando1

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 12:52 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm a tad under-informed on this.
Can't see how you can run it w/o the C clips.





The eliminator kit makes the axles bolt in like the Dana. NHRA requires them for cars running 10.99 and under.



Got it now.
I wouldn't know something involving running sub 11's...
Posted By: MattW

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 01:01 AM

Quote:

I would replace the housing ends and run custom axles with Green wheel bearings.



So is there stuff to upgrade your 9 1/4 so it can handle 700 hp or are you better off going to a Dana.
Posted By: Leon441

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 01:45 AM

Dana 60 out of 93 Dodge RAM 250 HD. I know for a fact the ones Norfolk Southern had had the Dana 60 HD and had the tone ring. HAD HAD HAD LOL

Just find one of these and buy axles and housing ends. Or just buy a complete rear with brakes for $1,500. Pyle Bros used to advertise these in ND.

Leon
Posted By: MattW

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 01:59 AM

Thanksfor the info Leon. Is there support for the 9 1/4 as there is for the Ford 8.8.
Something for the guy running sub 11 sec. but not all out that would reqire a Dana.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 02:43 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I would replace the housing ends and run custom axles with Green wheel bearings.



So is there stuff to upgrade your 9 1/4 so it can handle 700 hp or are you better off going to a Dana.


I'm sure there are some drive train experts on this sight that can shed some light on your question, but in my opinion: If there is a weak link with the 9 1/4, I would say it is the "C" clip axle retention system. The diff itself is plenty stout to handle 700HP and well beyond. Definitely stronger than the 8 3/4 in every respect. Problem is it came mostly in truck applications. Early muscle cars came with the 8 3/4 or the Dana 60, so most up grade / after market stuff was directed towards those 2 axles. Although you can now buy gears up to at least 4.56:1 for the 9 1/4, no one makes a spool for it yet and it appears no "C" clip eliminator kits - you have to have something special made? My car, like many late B body cars, came with the 9 1/4. Way overkill for the HP these cars were making from the factory. They may eventually be utilized more in the drag racing arena, simply because they are plentifull, cheap, and strong enough to handle some HP.

Attached picture 6491210-caltrac9.jpg
Posted By: Adobedude

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 02:46 AM

Quote:

Dana 60 out of 93 Dodge RAM 250 HD. I know for a fact the ones Norfolk Southern had had the Dana 60 HD and had the tone ring. HAD HAD HAD LOL

Just find one of these and buy axles and housing ends. Or just buy a complete rear with brakes for $1,500. Pyle Bros used to advertise these in ND.
Leon




As in...Ditch the 9.25
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 05:14 AM

Dana 60 housing and a trip to Comp Chassis in Glendale and it was problem solved for me!
Posted By: Crizila

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 03:22 PM

Quote:

Dana 60 housing and a trip to Comp Chassis in Glendale and it was problem solved for me!


Great, But I don't have a problem. I've run the 9 1/4 in my car for over 4 years now with 4 different gears in it ( and one clutch change )and it's been working great. Made the tools ( that slide down the axle tubes ) for setting side bearing preload and backlash as well as a holding fixture for the yoke for setting pinion bearing preload. With these 2 tools, the 9 1/4 is as easy to set up as any diff - in my own garage.
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 03:25 PM

A 9 1/4" rearend is pretty stout when you run billet housing ends, custom axles with Green bearings, Detroit Locker and a crush sleeve eliminator.
Posted By: Duner

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 03:31 PM

I've already got the locker. Are the billet ends, green bearings and custom axles readily available? Or is it all custom made to fit, one at a time special build stuff.

Can I pick up the phone and just order these?
Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 04:35 PM

Quote:

Who has installed them in a 9 1/4? Are they necessary for an 11 second car? Thanks, John



The real need for the eliminators has NOTHING to do with the c-clips - the clips don't fail, they don't pop out, and the button doesn't break off the end - it's a failure elsewhere that is the problem. What breaks is the axle itself - an axle of that strength would fail, c-clip or not. Granted, once the axle breaks, then you can lose the wheel/tire and the problem starts, but it wasn't the clips that failed. Put in strong enough axles and the clips are never an issue. Sometimes the whole diff explodes; again, nothing to do with the c-clips. As to your situation, I'd look into stronger axles for the most bang-for-the-buck. If your wallet allows, the strongest way is as others have mentioned - new ends, bearings, and axles.
Posted By: Adobedude

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 05:37 PM

Quote:

I've already got the locker. Are the billet ends, green bearings and custom axles readily available? Or is it all custom made to fit, one at a time special build stuff.

Can I pick up the phone and just order these?




Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 05:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I've already got the locker. Are the billet ends, green bearings and custom axles readily available? Or is it all custom made to fit, one at a time special build stuff.

Can I pick up the phone and just order these?









With extra butter, please
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 05:58 PM

Housing ends are off the shelf. Custom axles are 3-4 day turn around.

All I need to know is your desired housing or assembly width and bolt pattern.

Ford 9" (Daytona) crush sleeve eliminator kit works nicely with a slight modification. 1350 U-bolt yokes are also readily available (29 spline 8 3/4" application).

Of course, you must have a shop change the housing ends with an alignment jig. I could probably rent out one of my jigs if someone wanted to do the fab work themselves.

Please E-mail me for more information.
Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 06:02 PM

Quote:

Housing ends are off the shelf. Custom axles are 3-4 day turn around.

All I need to know is your desired housing or assembly width and bolt pattern.

Ford 9" (Daytona) crush sleeve eliminator kit works nicely with a slight modification. 1350 U-bolt yokes are also readily available (29 spline 8 3/4" application).

Of course, you must have a shop change the housing ends with an alignment jig. I could probably rent out one of my jigs if someone wanted to do the fab work themselves.

Please E-mail me for more information.




At that point they just have to make sure the ends that they use match the brakes that they have, or they will need to find new brakes.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 10:20 PM

Thanks Evil Spirit and DoctorDiff. All good info on the 9 1/4. I don't plan on running my existing car faster than 11.50, so I'm not sure the work ( axles, new retainer style housing ends )to upgrade my existing unit is necessary. Just doesn't appear to be a lot of breakage in my ET / HP range. Still gonna get some numbers together though for the mods you mentioned.
Posted By: Duner

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/23/11 11:16 PM

Thanks for the info. I'll be contacting you very soon.

I've been skirting the rules and pretending that my disc brake setup was a positive axle retention device. LOL At present - my rig doesn't hook well enough to break the axles, but there's always a first time and I don't want to be along for the ride. It broke the factory LSD carrier in half on a good launch so that's where the locker came from. Hopefully the backing plates for the disc brakes will still work with the new housing ends.
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/24/11 03:34 AM

Luckily, 8 3/4" housing ends fit OEM 9 1/4" brakes.
Posted By: Adobedude

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/24/11 03:54 AM

Quote:

Thanks for the info. I'll be contacting you very soon.

I've been skirting the rules and pretending that my disc brake setup was a positive axle retention device. LOL At present - my rig doesn't hook well enough to break the axles, but there's always a first time and I don't want to be along for the ride. It broke the factory LSD carrier in half on a good launch so that's where the locker came from. Hopefully the backing plates for the disc brakes will still work with the new housing ends.




I smell a need for kit...There's gonna be more Dakota guys in the 10's and some in the 9's pretty soon, all running 9.25 rear ends.
Posted By: DaKuda

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/24/11 05:59 AM

Doesnt the 9-1/4 have a "necked down" axle that gets pretty small near the splines?
Posted By: Crizila

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/24/11 03:25 PM

Quote:

Doesnt the 9-1/4 have a "necked down" axle that gets pretty small near the splines?


Yes, Don't have the sizes in front of me, but they are BIG axles, even in the spline area. BTW, when I went to install 4.56 gears a few weeks ago, I had to grind the corner off of one tooth in order to slide the center pin in. Didn't have to do that with the 4.10 or smaller ( numerically ) ratios that I have used in the past?? If someone were to come up with a kit where I could use my existing brakes, that would be great.
Posted By: MattW

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/24/11 04:40 PM

Quote:

Luckily, 8 3/4" housing ends fit OEM 9 1/4" brakes.




Didn't Rick Ehrenburg used Ford end in his 64. It had an 83/4 and he Ford end and kept the existing brakes. He does not like the green bearing. He use a sealed tapered Ford bearing. Matt
Posted By: Crizila

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/24/11 06:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Luckily, 8 3/4" housing ends fit OEM 9 1/4" brakes.




Didn't Rick Ehrenburg used Ford end in his 64. It had an 83/4 and he Ford end and kept the existing brakes. He does not like the green bearing. He use a sealed tapered Ford bearing. Matt


Doesn't answer your question, but here is a pic of how the axle tube transitions from 4" to 3" about mid way on the tube. I would guess you could use any end that is made for a 3" tube with a press in bearing? I would perfer to use my existing brakes ( 11"x 2 1/2") as they stop my heavy weight well and are well matched to the fronts.

Attached picture 6493968-axletube.jpg
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/24/11 06:32 PM

You can use your existing brakes as-is if you use standard 8 3/4" billet ends.

You can also use hybrid 3.15" bore Mopar housing ends and a Timken set 20 or a Ford sealed ball wheel bearing if you want to bore the center out of your original backing plates.

If a few people are interested, I could probably make a bolt-on C-clip eliminator/axle package for a 9 1/4" rearend.
Posted By: Duner

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/24/11 06:36 PM

Like Adobe said above - there's a whole bunch of Dakota guys running the 9.25 that are skirting the rules that would be VERY interested in a bolt-on option. So far, none of us have broken axles or really torn up much more than the LSD unit.
Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/24/11 07:01 PM

I took the hard road, Moser big ford ends, fit perfectly, Moser 31 spline axles, Moser Torino Budget brakes.

Come on Dave, You know I did this on my truck already.





Posted By: Crizila

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/24/11 09:00 PM

Quote:

You can use your existing brakes as-is if you use standard 8 3/4" billet ends.

You can also use hybrid 3.15" bore Mopar housing ends and a Timken set 20 or a Ford sealed ball wheel bearing if you want to bore the center out of your original backing plates.

If a few people are interested, I could probably make a bolt-on C-clip eliminator/axle package for a 9 1/4" rearend.


I'm interested!
Posted By: Adobedude

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/25/11 12:26 AM

Quote:

I took the hard road, Moser big ford ends, fit perfectly, Moser 31 spline axles, Moser Torino Budget brakes.

Come on Dave, You know I did this on my truck already.





Two words...Hard & Road...LOL

There's more than enough interest for c-clip eliminator axle packages.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/25/11 01:36 AM

What is the cost of changing ends, etc on the 9.25?

How close would you be to getting a Dana 60 and being done with the issue and have a better selling point if you decide to get out?
Posted By: MattW

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/25/11 02:12 AM

Quote:

You can use your existing brakes as-is if you use standard 8 3/4" billet ends.

You can also use hybrid 3.15" bore Mopar housing ends and a Timken set 20 or a Ford sealed ball wheel bearing if you want to bore the center out of your original backing plates.

If a few people are interested, I could probably make a bolt-on C-clip eliminator/axle package for a 9 1/4" rearend.




Would the timken # BR20 fit the original axles?
I am thinking cheap.
Weld ends on and press bearings on original axles and go.
Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/25/11 03:43 AM

Quote:

What is the cost of changing ends, etc on the 9.25?

How close would you be to getting a Dana 60 and being done with the issue and have a better selling point if you decide to get out?




If all you are doing is changing the ends and putting in new axles its not bad. 100 for the ends, 200 to cut off and weld new ends, then the cost of the axles. Assuming your brakes cross over.
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/25/11 04:08 AM

Unfortunately, no unitized bearing would be a simple, press on deal.

I looked at a few options today, and I think a 9.25" C-clip eliminator/axle package is do-able. I will start to chip away at the design.
Posted By: bad360rt

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/25/11 05:05 AM

Quote:

I looked at a few options today, and I think a 9.25" C-clip eliminator/axle package is do-able. I will start to chip away at the design.



Posted By: Crizila

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/25/11 03:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I looked at a few options today, and I think a 9.25" C-clip eliminator/axle package is do-able. I will start to chip away at the design.






Thanks!!
Posted By: HR3128

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/25/11 07:21 PM

Quote:

You can use your existing brakes as-is if you use standard 8 3/4" billet ends.

You can also use hybrid 3.15" bore Mopar housing ends and a Timken set 20 or a Ford sealed ball wheel bearing if you want to bore the center out of your original backing plates.

If a few people are interested, I could probably make a bolt-on C-clip eliminator/axle package for a 9 1/4" rearend.




Let me know when you get the package worked out. I will take one.
Posted By: MattW

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/25/11 08:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You can use your existing brakes as-is if you use standard 8 3/4" billet ends.

You can also use hybrid 3.15" bore Mopar housing ends and a Timken set 20 or a Ford sealed ball wheel bearing if you want to bore the center out of your original backing plates.

If a few people are interested, I could probably make a bolt-on C-clip eliminator/axle package for a 9 1/4" rearend.




Let me know when you get the package worked out. I will take one.




X2
Seriously there are over a million of these rear ends out there, once the word gets out maybe spool, pro gears.
i
Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/25/11 08:41 PM

A spool for bigger axles would be great.
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/25/11 10:38 PM

Do you think street/strip '97-'04 6 lug Dakota axles with 3" studs would be the most popular application?

I assume everyone understands installing C-clip eliminators requires cutting the wheel bearing pockets off the housing, so nothing protrudes past the brake backing plates?
Posted By: Adobedude

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/25/11 11:26 PM

5 lug, one of the more common Dakota complaints is lack of wheels for a 6 lug.
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/26/11 04:55 AM

I could supply axles with dual 6 and 5 lug patterns.
Posted By: Adobedude

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/26/11 07:34 PM

Sounds good...5 lug would seal the deal for a lot of guys. I have 6 lug Bogarts...But they were stupid expensive, and strip only. When we do find 6 lug race wheels, that's all they are, race only...Never street/strip.

I could post up an info thread in a couple Dakota forums when you get more info
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/26/11 09:35 PM

Axle forgings are not a problem.

What size of rear brakes are common on 9.25" Dakota rears?

The brake book shows 9", 10" and 11" depending on the year. Do you know if the axle flange standout, brake register diameter and brake backing plate bolt pattern is consistant?
Posted By: MattW

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/27/11 12:38 AM

Quote:

Axle forgings are not a problem.

What size of rear brakes are common on 9.25" Dakota rears?

The brake book shows 9", 10" and 11" depending on the year. Do you know if the axle flange standout, brake register diameter and brake backing plate bolt pattern is consistant?



Are not the Dakota drum brakes the same as B body brakes.
Posted By: HR3128

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/27/11 02:11 AM

I have a 9.25 in the garage. Let me know if you need measurements on something. It's still asembled. I can get at it but can't move it around until some snow melts.
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/27/11 02:42 AM

Every 5 lug 9 1/4" I've seen uses standard Mopar brakes.

Do you have a 6 lug Dakota rear?
Posted By: Duner

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/27/11 06:13 AM

Quote:

Every 5 lug 9 1/4" I've seen uses standard Mopar brakes.

Do you have a 6 lug Dakota rear?




My '99 and '00 Dakotas both came with 10" drums - 6-lug.
Posted By: HR3128

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/27/11 12:16 PM

Quote:

Every 5 lug 9 1/4" I've seen uses standard Mopar brakes.

Do you have a 6 lug Dakota rear?




Mine is a 5 lug.
Posted By: 10 o to go

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/27/11 12:31 PM

Borrowed a chevy for a pts nite ,mopar was down .
12 sec nova .without c clips wasn't pretty .
pic
DR

Attached picture 6499106-paulscarwithDon.jpg
Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/27/11 01:04 PM

That is part of the reason I went through all the trouble to get rid of them. Not the easy way, but the right way.
Posted By: Adobedude

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/27/11 03:03 PM

10" drum 6 lug on my 01 R/T. I think some of the newer years came with Disks.
Posted By: MattW

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/27/11 06:38 PM

Quote:

10" drum 6 lug on my 01 R/T. I think some of the newer years came with Disks.




OK 1986 to 1990 5 lug 4.5 spacing 71/4 to 81/4 rears.
1991 to 2004 6 lug 4.5 spacing 8 1/4 to 9 1/4 rears.
2003 to 2004 rear disk
And I am almost certain that all the drum brakes are the same spacing except for numbers of lugs.
The problem is with the disk. There is different spacing requirements. Where the backing plate bolts to the housing. It is closer to the end of the housing on a drum than a disk.
Posted By: Duner

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/27/11 07:29 PM

I converted my '99 Dakota to disk brakes using '94 Jeep Gran Cherokee parts. The spacing was perfect. No cutting or welding required. Just had to drill the hat for 6 lugs.
Posted By: MattW

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 02/28/11 02:04 AM

Quote:

I converted my '99 Dakota to disk brakes using '94 Jeep Gran Cherokee parts. The spacing was perfect. No cutting or welding required. Just had to drill the hat for 6 lugs.



I got this info from Dakota Durango.com in the wheels brake and tire section.
Posted By: Blue93Dakota

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 04/11/11 09:19 PM

I did the same thing after you did. Would that hold the axle in if it broke?
Posted By: Five9Dak

Re: "C" clip eliminators. - 04/26/11 04:29 AM

Interested in a kit, putting 4.10s and a truetrac in my 9.25 as we speak. I have a '99 with drums. Waiting for this to materialize to upgrade axles, and to a custom disk brake setup. It would be great if the stock drums were a bolt on ordeal in the meantime.
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