Posted By: paul69cuda
Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/14/11 03:15 AM
Need input on what system you have used and the pros and cons I'm looking for dependability for street strip use.
Best fuel inject system for turbo 440
Posted By: JonsGottaDusta
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/14/11 09:17 AM
If you're a DIYer, I suggest MegaSquirt 3 
Posted By: Dragula
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/14/11 12:09 PM
FAST XFI
It has a lot of function the turbo nuts require, and the new software will now learn the map somewhat...
It has a lot of function the turbo nuts require, and the new software will now learn the map somewhat...
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/17/11 04:55 AM
Quote:
If you're a DIYer, I suggest MegaSquirt 3
I'll second what John said. MS3 has everything you would need. Fraction of the cost of a FAST setup, but you have to be willing to do some homework and tune it yourself (without using VEAL in the latest TunerStudio that is).
Posted By: jyrki
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/17/11 03:01 PM
If the megasquirt were the best one, it would propably be used by the pros too. As far as the best goes, my wote would be MoTec. We have Autronic SM4 in ours, it's not bad either.
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/17/11 03:11 PM
Quote:
If the megasquirt were the best one, it would propably be used by the pros too. As far as the best goes, my wote would be MoTec. We have Autronic SM4 in ours, it's not bad either.
When you say "pros", I assume you're talking about race teams. MS3 has been well documented in a number of circle, mud, and drag vehicles. Like I said, it's not the easiest system to work with, but at the end of construction, install, and tuning, you'll know much more about the science of fuel injection than with any of the other systems that cost monumentally more. I guess it's a preference.
Posted By: feets
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/17/11 06:00 PM
I'd have to sell my car to buy the MoTec but I do know an awesome tuner for that package.
Posted By: DakFink
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/17/11 06:08 PM
Really depends on your Budget and what your after!!
MegaSquirt is some what cheap but you better be an Electronics, Software, Tuning, Soldering and Wiring nut because it comes as 100's of pieces in a box that you have to assemble. You can get semi pre assembled units, But if you do that the price quickly approaches that of a basic FAST system.
Most of the Pro Drag racers run either FAST or BigStuff3.
I personally have BS-3 because it has what FAST considers options as standard features and was actually cheaper than a FAST system spec'd out Identically the same.
I haven't gotten mine up and running as of yet.
But I do have a buddy that has run both FAST and BS-3 on his Outlaw 10.5 car and he likes them both about the same.
His only complaint since he switched over to BS-3 is that it can be finicky about transferring data sometimes.
Really about the least expensive and most adaptable for street driving would be a FORD MAF system.
There is a company called MASS-EFI and that is all their system is. I personally think their Kits are a Bit expensive knowing what the hardware costs are.
You can buy all the parts directly from FORD Motor sports rather reasonable and use SCT-Flash to tune it.
You could even go as far as getting the computer and wiring harness from a junk yard.
MegaSquirt is some what cheap but you better be an Electronics, Software, Tuning, Soldering and Wiring nut because it comes as 100's of pieces in a box that you have to assemble. You can get semi pre assembled units, But if you do that the price quickly approaches that of a basic FAST system.
Most of the Pro Drag racers run either FAST or BigStuff3.
I personally have BS-3 because it has what FAST considers options as standard features and was actually cheaper than a FAST system spec'd out Identically the same.
I haven't gotten mine up and running as of yet.
But I do have a buddy that has run both FAST and BS-3 on his Outlaw 10.5 car and he likes them both about the same.
His only complaint since he switched over to BS-3 is that it can be finicky about transferring data sometimes.
Really about the least expensive and most adaptable for street driving would be a FORD MAF system.
There is a company called MASS-EFI and that is all their system is. I personally think their Kits are a Bit expensive knowing what the hardware costs are.
You can buy all the parts directly from FORD Motor sports rather reasonable and use SCT-Flash to tune it.
You could even go as far as getting the computer and wiring harness from a junk yard.
Posted By: TrxR
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/17/11 07:33 PM
The new Holley HP and dominator setup looks real good and I have seen some good reviews as well.
Posted By: Kam*Kuda
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/17/11 08:21 PM
I use Fast and I have heard great things about Motec
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/18/11 02:51 AM
Quote:
MegaSquirt is some what cheap but you better be an Electronics, Software, Tuning, Soldering and Wiring nut because it comes as 100's of pieces in a box that you have to assemble. You can get semi pre assembled units, But if you do that the price quickly approaches that of a basic FAST system.
You can get fully assembly MS3 boxes for $540 bucks. No assembly required on the EMS unit itself.
The "Basic" FAST EZ EFI kit is $1,800.
I'll be the first to admit that Megasquirt is not for everyone. As you point out, it takes a large amount of patience to learn the system and assemble it if you're so inclined. Tuning isn't the easiest thing in the world, but it gives you a new respect for the main induction system on your ride. It's just like anything else. How nuts do you want to be about your engine build? Go to the fastest speed shop in town, pay out the nose and get an engine that you can drop in and know nothing about? Or farm out machining and learn the proper procedures for assembly?
Posted By: instigator
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/18/11 11:29 PM
I built my megasquirt 2 myself....took quite a few hours, but was incredibly enjoyable......now this was a few months ago but work has really been busy and being a family business has hampered me getting it installed....
I came from a very old accel gen7 and ending up having communication problems and just was about to pull my hair out and figured for what I could just buy a replacemnet com cable for the gen 7 I could purchase the whole MS2.....and that still may have not been the problem....
I will hopefully know soon how the MS2 works.
I've got a post a couple pages back that shows some good pics of the MS2 board I built.
I came from a very old accel gen7 and ending up having communication problems and just was about to pull my hair out and figured for what I could just buy a replacemnet com cable for the gen 7 I could purchase the whole MS2.....and that still may have not been the problem....
I will hopefully know soon how the MS2 works.
I've got a post a couple pages back that shows some good pics of the MS2 board I built.
Posted By: Keith Black®
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/21/11 10:01 PM
Quote:
I use Fast and I have heard great things about Motec
this is a good thread , I'm looking for the right ignition/EFI setup myself for my procharged EFI (16 injectors staged sequential E85) setup.
Just checked out the Motec options, gotta say their systems look really comprehensive & extensible.
Posted By: feets
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/22/11 10:48 PM
The Motec can do everything short of changing your oil and doing the dishes. The downside is you pay dearly for it's capabilities.
That is the system of choice for many high end tuners.
That is the system of choice for many high end tuners.
Posted By: paul69cuda
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/23/11 12:19 AM
I love the imput I am leaning to the fast efi it will run around 2600.00 for everything
Accept the intake tb and fuel rails which I want the edelbrock pro flo xt stuff.
Accept the intake tb and fuel rails which I want the edelbrock pro flo xt stuff.
Posted By: dOc !
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/23/11 01:34 AM
Is this DUAL FUEL capable ?
Posted By: paul69cuda
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/23/11 02:07 AM
I believe it is I am planning on running e 85
Posted By: DCI
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/23/11 04:44 PM
Posted By: dOc !
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/23/11 06:17 PM
Quote:
I believe it is I am planning on running e 85
What I mean by dual-fuel is separate tanks of fuel .... normal operation regular gas ... under boost - premium or race OR E-85.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/23/11 07:50 PM
Quote:Quote:
I believe it is I am planning on running e 85
What I mean by dual-fuel is separate tanks of fuel .... normal operation regular gas ... under boost - premium or race OR E-85.
Basically any system can be setup for that if it supports staged injection. There's even guys doing that with the cheap megasquirt systems.
Posted By: Keith Black®
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/24/11 03:02 AM
Quote:
The Motec can do everything short of changing your oil and doing the dishes. The downside is you pay dearly for it's capabilities.
That is the system of choice for many high end tuners.
It looks pretty good, very comprehensive. I've been checking out the product specifications on their website BUT it seems they can't support 16 injectors. ??
Maybe I've misread it?
(Apologies in advance .. I'm not trying to Hijack the thread).. I need to run 8 primary injectors + 8 secondaries, staged & sequential (to the max rpm/fuel delivery point they can be).
Posted By: Dragula
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/24/11 01:18 PM
Quote:Quote:
I believe it is I am planning on running e 85
What I mean by dual-fuel is separate tanks of fuel .... normal operation regular gas ... under boost - premium or race OR E-85.
Use methanol injection. Its very simple to set-up and works very well....
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/24/11 03:37 PM
Quote:So what does one of those set a guy back?
http://www.emi.cc/products/tec3.html
Posted By: Keith Black®
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/24/11 08:58 PM
Quote:Quote:So what does one of those set a guy back?
http://www.emi.cc/products/tec3.html
looks ok.. can't find a price anywhere.. doesn't support dual injectors per cylinder (sigh).
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/24/11 10:48 PM
Electromotive does support 16 injectors, in staged sequential mode. It is standard and works well. If I remember correctly, the control unit is around $1800. The coils are sold separate, and the unterminaded harness is sold separately. This is the system I used.
Posted By: feets
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/25/11 07:20 PM
Quote:
Is this DUAL FUEL capable ?
How's this for dual fuel?
http://bobnorwood.com/Max-4%20Technical%20Summary.htm
I was around while he was building that thing. He has since moved out of the city and I've only seen it a couple times in the last few years.
Posted By: Keith Black®
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/25/11 09:34 PM
that is cool !
Posted By: paul69cuda
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/25/11 11:44 PM
That is cool way more than I can spend
Posted By: Quicksilver440
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/26/11 05:39 AM
Quote:
You can get fully assembly MS3 boxes for $540 bucks. No assembly required on the EMS unit itself.
The "Basic" FAST EZ EFI kit is $1,800.
Thats not a fair comparison though (but I have nothing against MS3)....your comparing a box ONLY for $540 (and you still need to buy all the other parts) to an $1800 EZ kit that includes the control unit, throttle body with injectors and fuel rails, control module, wideband sensor, coolant temp sensor and wiring harness.
I'm not here to advertise anything....because I have nothing to sell. But I'm working on a system that will adapt a full direct port LS1 fuel injection system and coil on plug ignition to a BB or SB mopar. The beauty of this setup is low cost, direct port and fully programable fuel injection AND ignition that supports boost. Also, any LS1 tuner can tune it (if you don't want to do it yourself)...and those guys are everywhere.
When I have mine running I will share more...oh, it can be E85 capable too.
Posted By: paul69cuda
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/26/11 02:35 PM
Quick let us know the ls computer is like 75.00 bucks how close are you to getting it done.
Posted By: Quicksilver440
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/26/11 08:40 PM
Petty close....Only thing left is the wiring harness really. If your looking to do it real soon, I wouldn't wait on the LS stuff. But I hope to have mine running in the next few months in time for the Spring Fling show in Van Nuys.
Posted By: MedPhys
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/28/11 11:39 PM
I'll be using MS3 on my charger 440 project. I agree that a complete package is not apples to apples comparison with MS3. I'm quite familiar with using MS2 and tuning with tuner studio on another project.
MS3x is about $640 which is what you need to run sequential injection and spark (I'll run individual coil packs), Use a crank trigger and you should be able to get rid of the distributor. Two WB02 sensors ~$350, injectors ~$300 - $600 (depends on style and size), IAT sensor $40, Have intake manifold ported for injectors and have two fuel rails made (a member on here says $400). Then you have the throttle body issue to deal with if you don't go with an intake that has the provision for it. (Although, this should be pretty easy to deal with in one form or another.) The key is to add a VTPS.
That comes to right at 2k, still need coil packs, time, and a little wire for a harness.
I admit that I do not know much about the other "complete packages", but the overall control you get with a megasquirt is tough to beat. The autotune feature in tunerstudio is amazing. You can price stuff at diyautotune.com Personally, I liked building it myself.
MS3x is about $640 which is what you need to run sequential injection and spark (I'll run individual coil packs), Use a crank trigger and you should be able to get rid of the distributor. Two WB02 sensors ~$350, injectors ~$300 - $600 (depends on style and size), IAT sensor $40, Have intake manifold ported for injectors and have two fuel rails made (a member on here says $400). Then you have the throttle body issue to deal with if you don't go with an intake that has the provision for it. (Although, this should be pretty easy to deal with in one form or another.) The key is to add a VTPS.
That comes to right at 2k, still need coil packs, time, and a little wire for a harness.
I admit that I do not know much about the other "complete packages", but the overall control you get with a megasquirt is tough to beat. The autotune feature in tunerstudio is amazing. You can price stuff at diyautotune.com Personally, I liked building it myself.
Posted By: MedPhys
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 02/28/11 11:50 PM
Quote:Quote:
You can get fully assembly MS3 boxes for $540 bucks. No assembly required on the EMS unit itself.
The "Basic" FAST EZ EFI kit is $1,800.
Thats not a fair comparison though (but I have nothing against MS3)....your comparing a box ONLY for $540 (and you still need to buy all the other parts) to an $1800 EZ kit that includes the control unit, throttle body with injectors and fuel rails, control module, wideband sensor, coolant temp sensor and wiring harness.
I'm not here to advertise anything....because I have nothing to sell. But I'm working on a system that will adapt a full direct port LS1 fuel injection system and coil on plug ignition to a BB or SB mopar. The beauty of this setup is low cost, direct port and fully programable fuel injection AND ignition that supports boost. Also, any LS1 tuner can tune it (if you don't want to do it yourself)...and those guys are everywhere.
When I have mine running I will share more...oh, it can be E85 capable too.
Please make sure you report back on this. I'm especially interested in the LS1 direct port fuel injection conversion. I planned on using a performer rpm manifold modified for fuel injectors. However it would be very beneficial to tap into the extensive and reasonably priced LS1 aftermarket for things like injectors. If you have some time to explain your ideas, then shoot me a pm.
Posted By: Quicksilver440
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/01/11 07:17 AM
I sent you a PM...I'm using cheap but new LS7 injectors on my car. Cost me like $70.
Posted By: Bruce K Bridges
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/01/11 10:44 PM
Weve played with a few different systems...As a car guy Id use any of the fully sequential 3bar systems for a turbo motor: FAST FXI, BS3, Motech, Megasquirt (I love to solder)...Especially if you are planning to race. Mopar used the Motech on its '98 Lemans car... Individual cylinder tuning can buy you a lot at the margins. I run BS3 units in my cars. Beautiful harness and great functionality. Figuring out how to tune it from scratch was a bit hard. Easier the second time around.
If I was to sell an EFI system (for a pressurized app), Id sell the FAST FXI. The real world support level (FASTMAN, etc.) more than compensates for any processor speed differences and its user interface and help files are some of the best for a beginner. It does 3bar MAP. FAST EZ doesnt do boost. If you get into trouble it can be interrogated and tuned over the internet with wifi connection. Now FAST has dual sync distributors for Mopars as well (no crank trigger necc. if you dont want it, making the install about as hard as a big stereo without the speaker holes...) Weve done GM systems in Mopars as well as GMs and they work well (MEFI) if you want bank to bank inj and no boost. They are about the cheapest out there with the box, harness and software coming in at about 750.00 new (Painless) with no soldering! but no boost and its bank to bank. The newer GM stuff allows boost, is sequential and is even cheaper, but I havnt tried it out yet. EFI systems are coming down in price and up in features, but if you arent familiar with them and their tuning, go with the one with the best support in your area! Minimize down time, maximize drive time!
Im not a FAST distributor...
Bruce
If I was to sell an EFI system (for a pressurized app), Id sell the FAST FXI. The real world support level (FASTMAN, etc.) more than compensates for any processor speed differences and its user interface and help files are some of the best for a beginner. It does 3bar MAP. FAST EZ doesnt do boost. If you get into trouble it can be interrogated and tuned over the internet with wifi connection. Now FAST has dual sync distributors for Mopars as well (no crank trigger necc. if you dont want it, making the install about as hard as a big stereo without the speaker holes...) Weve done GM systems in Mopars as well as GMs and they work well (MEFI) if you want bank to bank inj and no boost. They are about the cheapest out there with the box, harness and software coming in at about 750.00 new (Painless) with no soldering! but no boost and its bank to bank. The newer GM stuff allows boost, is sequential and is even cheaper, but I havnt tried it out yet. EFI systems are coming down in price and up in features, but if you arent familiar with them and their tuning, go with the one with the best support in your area! Minimize down time, maximize drive time!
Im not a FAST distributor...
Bruce
Posted By: feets
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/02/11 12:38 AM
Quote:
The key is to add a VTPS.
I know what a throttle position sensor is but what's a VTPS? I've been selling parts at dealerships for over a decade and never heard of that one.
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/02/11 03:29 AM
Quote:Quote:
The key is to add a VTPS.
I know what a throttle position sensor is but what's a VTPS? I've been selling parts at dealerships for over a decade and never heard of that one.
Methinks he means Variable-TPS, a term coined after a bunch of Mazda owners realized their current throttle body's TPS were just ON/OFF switches (0% or 100%). There is no "trick" to fitting a genuine potentiometer-style TPS- all GM throttle bodies use them and most aftermarket TBs do as well.
Posted By: feets
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/02/11 04:32 PM
So you mean a TPS since we don't drive Mazdas.
I assumed the V was variable but it's fairly redundant since a position sensor is going to be variable by definition.
I assumed the V was variable but it's fairly redundant since a position sensor is going to be variable by definition.
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/03/11 12:47 AM
Quote:
So you mean a TPS since we don't drive Mazdas.
You gots it
Quote:
I assumed the V was variable but it's fairly redundant since a position sensor is going to be variable by definition.
As far as I understand it, "it's" a Mazda thing. To them, the stock on/off switch is a TPS, and replacing it with a vTPS give's them variable. Methinks they don't realize they've been cheated
Posted By: B1KILLER
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/03/11 09:24 AM
Interesting, I was gonna post something similar,
Planning on making my R5P7 motor e85 efi.
When I'm done, I believe it will be like $4000.00
With fuel pump, coil paks, crank trigger, exc, n
That's being modest. I'm going with Big Stuff also
Will go turbo, down the line....
Planning on making my R5P7 motor e85 efi.
When I'm done, I believe it will be like $4000.00
With fuel pump, coil paks, crank trigger, exc, n
That's being modest. I'm going with Big Stuff also
Will go turbo, down the line....
Posted By: DCI
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/03/11 03:45 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:So what does one of those set a guy back?
http://www.emi.cc/products/tec3.html
looks ok.. can't find a price anywhere.. doesn't support dual injectors per cylinder (sigh).
"8 Peak and Hold Injector Channels - Up to 2 Low impedance injectors per channel (Some unused channels available as staged injection channels)"
8 channels with 2 per channel is 16 injectors....how many cylinders do you have?
Posted By: Keith Black®
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/03/11 08:10 PM
Quote:
"8 Peak and Hold Injector Channels - Up to 2 Low impedance injectors per channel (Some unused channels available as staged injection channels)"
8 channels with 2 per channel is 16 injectors....how many cylinders do you have?
my mistake.. I need 16 injectors, 2 per cyl. primaries and secondaries, staged & sequential. primary injectors will be smaller for tunability & secondaries larger. Will need to be able to program fuel maps accordingly. still need to calc final injectors sizes will put up a separate post. aiming to have low level tunability/drivability, plus meet delivery requirements at high end. E85 adds to delivery requirements.
Posted By: DCI
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/03/11 08:58 PM
We did that with it on a turbo methanol 6 cyl. Ran 2 injectors per cylinder. One map table allowed you to blend the secondary injector in as a % of the primary. Worked well in our application and was very smooth. We were able to idle and stall on the primary then blend the secondary in once the car had launched.
Posted By: Rug_Trucker
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/03/11 10:41 PM
Posted By: Keith Black®
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/04/11 12:41 AM
Quote:
We did that with it on a turbo methanol 6 cyl. Ran 2 injectors per cylinder. One map table allowed you to blend the secondary injector in as a % of the primary. Worked well in our application and was very smooth. We were able to idle and stall on the primary then blend the secondary in once the car had launched.
that's exactly what I am seeking to achieve, except will be street driven.
The approximate power curve is in following picture & has steep fuel delivery requirements, simulations were run on non-intercooled scenario & I am running twin A/A intercoolers, circa +150~200hp on top end. Need a very extensible & programmable EFI system.. I think I will start another thread for help on this (not trying to hijack this one!)..
Posted By: DCI
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/04/11 01:34 PM
The TEC 3r will do all of that. You can run same #/hr injectors or one small one big. It can handle it.
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/05/11 12:05 AM
I had a tec3 with this set up and it worked great. I tried all sorts of combinations of injector sizes, I had 83s and 160s at one point, and could flood the engine at full boost if I wanted to.
Posted By: Keith Black®
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/06/11 06:29 AM
wow TRENDZ that looks cool are you running second injectors from underneath on that manifold..?
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/06/11 03:26 PM
Different view
Posted By: Keith Black®
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/06/11 08:35 PM
Quote:Quote:
"8 Peak and Hold Injector Channels - Up to 2 Low impedance injectors per channel (Some unused channels available as staged injection channels)"
8 channels with 2 per channel is 16 injectors....how many cylinders do you have?
my mistake.. I need 16 injectors, 2 per cyl. primaries and secondaries, staged & sequential. primary injectors will be smaller for tunability & secondaries larger. Will need to be able to program fuel maps accordingly. still need to calc final injectors sizes will put up a separate post. aiming to have low level tunability/drivability, plus meet delivery requirements at high end. E85 adds to delivery requirements.
The Tec3 looks like the most extensible system, but I did re-read the Tec3 install manual and while you can run 2 injectors per channel it is not clear how to run a dual staged/full-sequential setup i.e. it must fire both injectors and/or it fires each engine cycle (not true sequential). Not sure of the implications, still learning about EFI setup's but I am shooting for a system that allows:
1. primary injector set fires full sequential mode at low speed/load
2. primaery & secondary injector sets both fire (batch mode?) at high speed/load [my understanding is that injectors/delivery requirements/speed dictate you can't fire full-sequential at high speed/load/boost]
3. blending & of fuel maps in-between, including when the secondary injectors are programmed to kick in.
planning on running smaller injectors for low speed/load (the benefit of tunability), and large injectors + small injectors for full power.
I may be being too optimistic in the setup, or lack knowledge to get the right combination...
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/06/11 09:19 PM
You must run in phased sequential to run an 8 cyl in staged injection mode with a tec3. Paired injectors on companion cylinders. There is a separate table for bringing in the secondary injectors.
The actual software is free to download if you want to sample it. There are no lockouts or options with the TEC3 everything advertised is included with all systems.
The actual software is free to download if you want to sample it. There are no lockouts or options with the TEC3 everything advertised is included with all systems.
Posted By: CokeBottleKid
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/07/11 01:58 AM
makes sense, didn't think the tec3 game with 16 injector drivers 
.
Weren't you always complaining about how buggy/quirky it was Trendz? Have they updated it since?
.Weren't you always complaining about how buggy/quirky it was Trendz? Have they updated it since?
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/07/11 03:33 AM
Yes, the early purple tec3s(which I had) were problematic. The later tec3r (black) is improved and uses improved software. I'm not suggesting this system, only commenting on it's capabilities. Other "mainstream" systems would be a better choice if you are not totally confident in your ability, or the systems ability to get it to do what you want it to do.
Would I run one again? Yes. It can do everything I would need it to do, and more importantly, I am very well versed in its functions.
It has THE BEST starting line rev/boost control method of all systems Im aware of. I could get 15psi on the trans brake at 3700rpm in just under 1 second, and stay there without exhaust or intake explosions or smoke. Thats with TWO PT72 compressors on Qtrim wheels with 1.30 exhaust housings...Awesome.
Would I run one again? Yes. It can do everything I would need it to do, and more importantly, I am very well versed in its functions.
It has THE BEST starting line rev/boost control method of all systems Im aware of. I could get 15psi on the trans brake at 3700rpm in just under 1 second, and stay there without exhaust or intake explosions or smoke. Thats with TWO PT72 compressors on Qtrim wheels with 1.30 exhaust housings...Awesome.
Posted By: CokeBottleKid
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/07/11 06:07 AM
The built-in injector staging stuff is what draws me. However would still like to see what FAST has for this? I think they have an add-on, not sure if it adds on more injector drivers... that'd be cool.
Posted By: Keith Black®
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/07/11 07:48 PM
Quote:
The built-in injector staging stuff is what draws me. However would still like to see what FAST has for this? I think they have an add-on, not sure if it adds on more injector drivers... that'd be cool.
me too, still not comfortable that it is true sequential, if when running two sets of injectors, it requires that you fire injectors on companion cylinders it will not be in conjunction with timed valve events on those cylinders. Either that or I have misunderstood the system (quite possible!).
Otherwise Tec3 looks like a very extensible system.
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/07/11 11:02 PM
You got it right. But you also must consider that even true sequential injector firing is almost never triggered in exact time with intake valve open AND close events.
Phased sequential firing is two pulses @half the pulse width per cylinder event, compared to true sequential. So, the initiation of the injection occurs at the same time in relation to intake valve opening on both cylinders.
Phased sequential firing is two pulses @half the pulse width per cylinder event, compared to true sequential. So, the initiation of the injection occurs at the same time in relation to intake valve opening on both cylinders.
Posted By: Keith Black®
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/07/11 11:27 PM
Quote:
You got it right. But you also must consider that even true sequential injector firing is almost never triggered in exact time with intake valve open AND close events.
Phased sequential firing is two pulses @half the pulse width per cylinder event, compared to true sequential. So, the initiation of the injection occurs at the same time in relation to intake valve opening on both cylinders.
Trendz, so have I got it right in that phased sequential shoots fuel at the back of the closed valve on the companion cylinders? Also, would the 2x fire of the injectors you mention have implications on the sizing of injectors (i.e. ability to handle short pulsewidths?)?.
cheers for your input..
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/08/11 01:48 AM
Yes and yes. You seem to have a good handle on how this works.
Posted By: CokeBottleKid
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/08/11 04:59 AM
Ya phased is nothing new, MS2 does it for their 'true sequential' on V8s if I recall correctly (only 4 injector drivers). Many OE systems do or have done this too. It's not really a big deal... Or at least a small price to pay for staged injectionn
Posted By: HEMIFRED
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/10/11 07:17 AM
Quote:
Electromotive does support 16 injectors, in staged sequential mode. It is standard and works well. If I remember correctly, the control unit is around $1800. The coils are sold separate, and the unterminaded harness is sold separately. This is the system I used.
on my turbo hemi
my partner uses only this system. he said he can contol it and set all the values his own exact way rather than most systems having preset values to choose from.
that's the best way I can explain it but don't know much about it
Posted By: 8valves
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/10/11 06:23 PM
AEM will do all of this as well. Their 6050 box is their universal race unit and works very well, and has all the features discussed in this thread as standard.
Posted By: Keith Black®
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/12/11 10:39 PM
Quote:
AEM will do all of this as well. Their 6050 box is their universal race unit and works very well, and has all the features discussed in this thread as standard.
..looks interesting
Posted By: Keith Black®
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/12/11 11:02 PM
Quote:Quote:
AEM will do all of this as well. Their 6050 box is their universal race unit and works very well, and has all the features discussed in this thread as standard.
..looks interesting
I can't find anything specific about the 6050 on their website. It states 10 injectors in sequential but no mention of 16 (8x2), batched true sequential..??
Maybe can be configured through the software. Em3 seems a pretty sharp system.
Posted By: Keith Black®
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/13/11 03:30 AM
has anyone tried the Haltech system?
http://www.haltech.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Platinum-Sport-2000-Specifications1.pdf
http://www.haltech.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Platinum-Sport-2000-Specifications1.pdf
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: Best fuel inject system for turbo 440 - 03/13/11 03:12 PM
I used a haltec E6K on a 4 wheeler that I turbocharged. The system is so simple that it's complicated. For every load point(map value)there is a bar graph representing pulsewidth for each rpm break point. In other words, for every map value, there is a page that must be tweeked. So lets say you have 10 map break points. This means you have 10 pages. Each page has 10 rpm break points. You can only view one page at a time, so if the engine is idling at 900 rpm at 20in/hg, and you raise the rpm to say 1200rpm, your map value changes so you need to go to a different page. Its a simple system to understand, but very difficult to use compared modern systems.