Posted By: Wedge7070
SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/17/11 09:36 PM
ANY ADVICE GUYS? LOOKINF AT SOMETHING IN THE 236-248 AT .050
SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET
Posted By: HemiRick
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/17/11 09:43 PM
I got one much like that in my Hemi, a Comp cams grind. The specs are straight out of AndyF's Hemi book. (Correction brain fart, Whoops its RichN who wrote the hemi book this cam is out of.) He said it should run on the street with very little maintenance. I used Best Machines roller lifters w pressurized oiling to the roller bearing and the perp. oil holes.
spec are crh 4123b
246 254 @ .50 .646 .639 lift mines an EFI cam so its on a 114 LSA
spec are crh 4123b
246 254 @ .50 .646 .639 lift mines an EFI cam so its on a 114 LSA
Posted By: Wedge7070
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/17/11 09:51 PM
Thanks for the input. Andy F is a wealth of knowledge, I have his bigblock book.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 12:53 AM
I have a comp cams 588 solid roller. I'll let ya know in a few weeks how it works.
Posted By: Stanton
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 01:32 AM
Take a look at the Lunati VooDoo Rollers.
Posted By: mopartony
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 01:44 AM
Get a hold of Scott Brown formerly straightline performance or Damon Kuhn of Fugly racing in TX.
Both are cam gurus. I would lay money they will give you a cam that will make more power than an off the shelf job and still be smaller than you are expecting.
I have seen both of thier cams in action. One in a pump gas hemi making 851 with something like a 640ish lift the other in a wedge in that ball park on race gas. The wedge is a low 9 high 8 second car and comes in at 3200 if my mind does not fail me. Oh and both are under 500cid.
just my
Yes I will use one of those 2 for my next project and for the freshen up I need to do to my BB when funds allow.
Both are cam gurus. I would lay money they will give you a cam that will make more power than an off the shelf job and still be smaller than you are expecting.
I have seen both of thier cams in action. One in a pump gas hemi making 851 with something like a 640ish lift the other in a wedge in that ball park on race gas. The wedge is a low 9 high 8 second car and comes in at 3200 if my mind does not fail me. Oh and both are under 500cid.
just my
Yes I will use one of those 2 for my next project and for the freshen up I need to do to my BB when funds allow.
Posted By: PUNK
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 01:56 AM
Rich Nedbel? of FASTMAN EFI designed a camshaft for a 511 street HEMI with FAST fuel injection for me. It was very tame and docile on the street and the as cast Stage V HEMI heads it made 721 horsepower. Nice camshaft and the FAST fuel injection works AWESOME!!!! Rich knows his fuel injection stuff.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 02:07 AM
The cam companies I have talked with don't recommend a solid roller for the street due to durability issues. Just sayin.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 02:11 AM
Quote:Maybe some lobe designs but my solid roller Isky`s been kickin for 6-years street/strip and changed springs and re-built the lifters after several thousand miles and is still going strong. It`s .680-.660 lift w/275-280@ .050..............just saying.
The cam companies I have talked with don't recommend a solid roller for the street due to durability issues. Just sayin.
Posted By: BSB67
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 02:53 AM
Quote:
The cam companies I have talked with don't recommend a solid roller for the street due to durability issues. Just sayin.
From their perspective, there is not much up side, mostly risk in recommending a solid roller to a customer for street service. I would guess that most cam suppliers and distributors will recommend against them unless they know you or have a good sense of the type of customer you are. Obviously, the valve action is faster, and the spring pressures higher. Your valvetrain will see considerably more stress and it is silly to think that it isnt at a higher risk of catastrophic failure. My guess is that some customers will then blame the cam company and/or distributor for the failure.
Posted By: Darryls-Demon
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 05:32 AM
I have one in my Challenger and so far it is great. I have appox 2000 miles on it.
My advice, make sure you have Very Good valve springs and Good rockerarms like T&D or Jessel.
My advice, make sure you have Very Good valve springs and Good rockerarms like T&D or Jessel.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 05:41 AM
Quote:OR, Harland-sharps.....
I have one in my Challenger and so far it is great. I have appox 2000 miles on it.
My advice, make sure you have Very Good valve springs and Good rockerarms like T&D or Jessel.
Posted By: 10secGTX
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 06:09 AM
I have used mine for street and strip since 2003, I check the lash at the begining of the driving season, and before I race it, maybe 2 more times during the year. I'm checking the lash and not adjusting them very often. my
Posted By: Twin Turbo Mower
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 06:20 AM
Try the comp xtreme solid roller profiles they are pretty good off the shelf cams.
Posted By: dodgeboy11
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 07:45 AM
The problem that most don't think about with a solid roller street combo is that street engines idle a lot more than race engines. Without the splash lubrication on the rollers, they can and will fail. And it's much more catastrophic than a flat tappet cam that goes flat. Direct oiling to the rollers is the way to go even on a mild solid roller setup. You NEED enough spring pressure to keep the roller on the lobe though. If it bounces it WILL destroy the lifter.
Posted By: 1Fast340
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 06:06 PM
they work great on the street,just dont buy the cheapest valvetraincomponents and keep it sane and it will work a long time, im not worried about keeping them alive at idle either, the cam and lifters gets plenty of oil from above,start an engine and let it idle for a while without valvecovers and you will see what im talking about 
Posted By: DusterDave
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 06:29 PM
Quote:
ANY ADVICE GUYS? LOOKINF AT SOMETHING IN THE 236-248 AT .050
My old street driven Duster seen in my sig pic (now HEMIFRED's) has a Scott Brown-designed solid roller cam. Coupled with Comp roller lifters, it was totally trouble free. The only maintenance item was the bronze gear, which I replaced every two years. Specs: duration @ .050, 238º intake/246º exhaust, .625 lift intake/.604 lift exahust, on 112º lobe separation.
Posted By: RodStRace
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/18/11 07:24 PM
What are you guys running for the drive gear?
That's the part I'd be worried about, getting bronze all over the inside of the motor....
That's the part I'd be worried about, getting bronze all over the inside of the motor....
Posted By: fishy340
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 01:36 AM
find out what the heads flow,and then call bullit cams,,solid roller no prob on the street,just dont skimp on spring,lifters and rockers
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 03:16 AM
Quote:My gear has going on four yeasr on it, racing and street. Some gears live without wear and some wear faster than others
What are you guys running for the drive gear?
That's the part I'd be worried about, getting bronze all over the inside of the motor....
I wish I knew how to tell the good from the not so good, 
but I don't 
There was a employee at Crane Cams that had a large C.I. Indy stroker wedge motor in a early RR that ran the Hot Rod tour, One Lap around America as well as several other long cruise events, he had 70,000 miles on his brtonze gear when I talked to him about the gears wearing I was trying to buy a two piece cam core, stock front with oil pump gear and all the rest steel, to have ground by Comp Cams for my street motor back before Crane went BK. Crane was the only cam maker that had them back then, I ended up buying a steel solid roller cam from Comp Cams and have been running it every sense with absolutely no troubles with the bronze gear and oil pump shaft I bought from Mopar
Posted By: 383man
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 04:36 AM
Quote:
The problem that most don't think about with a solid roller street combo is that street engines idle a lot more than race engines. Without the splash lubrication on the rollers, they can and will fail. And it's much more catastrophic than a flat tappet cam that goes flat. Direct oiling to the rollers is the way to go even on a mild solid roller setup. You NEED enough spring pressure to keep the roller on the lobe though. If it bounces it WILL destroy the lifter.
Thats one of the reasons my 493 going in my 63 will have a solid flat tappet cam. I drive my 63 alot on the street and I dont want to worry about any roller lifter problems. Ron
Posted By: BigBlockMopar
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 01:39 PM
Quote:Quote:
The problem that most don't think about with a solid roller street combo is that street engines idle a lot more than race engines. Without the splash lubrication on the rollers, they can and will fail. And it's much more catastrophic than a flat tappet cam that goes flat. Direct oiling to the rollers is the way to go even on a mild solid roller setup. You NEED enough spring pressure to keep the roller on the lobe though. If it bounces it WILL destroy the lifter.
Thats one of the reasons my 493 going in my 63 will have a solid flat tappet cam. I drive my 63 alot on the street and I dont want to worry about any roller lifter problems. Ron
How do all those millions of modern car-engines survive with their roller cam setups?
Do those engines all have roller-oiling mods or is it all just a bit of scare-tactics and hearsay? Just curious.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 01:47 PM
Quote:Quote:
The problem that most don't think about with a solid roller street combo is that street engines idle a lot more than race engines. Without the splash lubrication on the rollers, they can and will fail. And it's much more catastrophic than a flat tappet cam that goes flat. Direct oiling to the rollers is the way to go even on a mild solid roller setup. You NEED enough spring pressure to keep the roller on the lobe though. If it bounces it WILL destroy the lifter.
Thats one of the reasons my 493 going in my 63 will have a solid flat tappet cam. I drive my 63 alot on the street and I dont want to worry about any roller lifter problems. Ron
The roller lifters I am using have a oil supply hole
for the roller... no worry here about lack of oil
Posted By: tubtar
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 02:14 PM
Quote:
How do all those millions of modern car-engines survive with their roller cam setups?
Do those engines all have roller-oiling mods or is it all just a bit of scare-tactics and hearsay? Just curious.
Apples to bacon cheeseburgers comparison.
A combination of hydraulic roller lifters and mods to the oiling ( oiling the roller for one ) , coupled with WAY tamer grinds let them work like an OEM likes them to.
Roller lifters have been around for a long time , but cost and lack of technology to make them last is what kept car manufacturers out of the game for as long as it did.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 05:45 PM
Solid roller lifters have been around in production cars since the early 1930 in V12 Cadilacs 
Aircraft motors have used them forever, the bad thing about race rollers is the spring pressures and RPM. The lifter weren't designed for the load Buy a good set of endurance roller lifters and make sure the spring pressures are enough to keep the rollors in contact with the cam lobes ALL of THE TIME, no matter what RPMs
Aircraft motors have used them forever, the bad thing about race rollers is the spring pressures and RPM. The lifter weren't designed for the load Buy a good set of endurance roller lifters and make sure the spring pressures are enough to keep the rollors in contact with the cam lobes ALL of THE TIME, no matter what RPMs
Posted By: an8sec70cuda
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 06:17 PM
Both my hemi and wedge have solid rollers and have seen a lot of street miles.
Do NOT use cheap lifters and you'll be fine. I use Isky Red Zones.
Obviously if it's a real aggressive lobe profile that needs a lot of spring pressure, things will have to be looked at more closely.
Do NOT use cheap lifters and you'll be fine. I use Isky Red Zones.
Obviously if it's a real aggressive lobe profile that needs a lot of spring pressure, things will have to be looked at more closely.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 06:35 PM
Quote:
Both my hemi and wedge have solid rollers and have seen a lot of street miles.
Do NOT use cheap lifters and you'll be fine. I use Isky Red Zones.
Obviously if it's a real aggressive lobe profile that needs a lot of spring pressure, things will have to be looked at more closely.
define "aggressive" I'm using a Comp cams 254 int./260 exh (.292/297) 0.582 int./0.588 exh. on a 110* They recommended springs with a seat load of 148 @ 1.900 open load of 456 @ 1.250 coil bind 1.085 and 474lbs.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 06:48 PM
Quote:Quote:
Both my hemi and wedge have solid rollers and have seen a lot of street miles.
Do NOT use cheap lifters and you'll be fine. I use Isky Red Zones.
Obviously if it's a real aggressive lobe profile that needs a lot of spring pressure, things will have to be looked at more closely.
define "aggressive" I'm using a Comp cams 254 int./260 exh (.292/297) 0.582 int./0.588 exh. on a 110* They recommended springs with a seat load of 148 @ 1.900 open load of 456 @ 1.250 coil bind 1.085 and 474lbs.
That isn't aggressive. Mine isn't aggressive either...220# on the seat, 600# open.
Posted By: tubtar
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 07:05 PM
My personal definition of aggressive starts around .700 lift and 270ish at .050 , but lobe profile has more to do with it than actual lift and duration numbers.
under .600 and 250 @.050 would be mild in the roller world......solid roller that is.
under .600 and 250 @.050 would be mild in the roller world......solid roller that is.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 10:20 PM
500 lbs (sq/in) in on the seats is not agressive for a Race motor that operates only minutes at the time...but on a street car each time every time for up to hours at the time does have a cumulative effect on the valves and aespecially the seats. also .700 lift adds a lot of feet per mile to the guide wear compared to .500 or even .600...up and down = 1 cycle.
Engineers deal in duty cycles...everything mechanical with moving parts has a finite (and predictable) life cycle. Opinions of what is "long Lasting" and "it works for me" vary greatly.
Bottom line is if you run your car mainly on week-ends and you pretty much only take it out for occassional cruises or a Test-n-tune, you're probably all right with a street roller.
My approach to a street motor is a bit different....to try to get the most out the motor in order to hit a target horsepower level with as small a cam and as low an RPM as is practical to do. That usually means big cubes and Excellent heads.
If you can get heads that flow at say .600 what others do at .700 that allows you to make the same power with a much milder cam....that seems to me to be a better overall approach, because anything below the torque peak means you get a much more streetable combination and odds are makes more average useable torque throughout a realistic street powerband.
Engineers deal in duty cycles...everything mechanical with moving parts has a finite (and predictable) life cycle. Opinions of what is "long Lasting" and "it works for me" vary greatly.
Bottom line is if you run your car mainly on week-ends and you pretty much only take it out for occassional cruises or a Test-n-tune, you're probably all right with a street roller.
My approach to a street motor is a bit different....to try to get the most out the motor in order to hit a target horsepower level with as small a cam and as low an RPM as is practical to do. That usually means big cubes and Excellent heads.
If you can get heads that flow at say .600 what others do at .700 that allows you to make the same power with a much milder cam....that seems to me to be a better overall approach, because anything below the torque peak means you get a much more streetable combination and odds are makes more average useable torque throughout a realistic street powerband.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 10:38 PM
"Bottom line is if you run your car mainly on week-ends and you pretty much only take it out for occassional cruises or a Test-n-tune, you're probably all right with a street roller."
That'd be me except when I go to the track I run 2 classes as I only get out once a month or so...
kids...wife ya know.
That'd be me except when I go to the track I run 2 classes as I only get out once a month or so...
kids...wife ya know.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/19/11 11:15 PM
...I can't complain. My last wk end street warrior (500" Indy-1) lasted ~6 yrs with a Comp solid roller before one had a bearing failure.
...I'm currently building a 475" Hemi for the street with Stage V's & these Comp rollers. Hope to have at least or more of that life span.
...I'm currently building a 475" Hemi for the street with Stage V's & these Comp rollers. Hope to have at least or more of that life span.
Posted By: polyspheric
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/20/11 12:54 AM
keep the rollors in contact with the cam lobes ALL of THE TIME
3 ways to do that:
1. hydraulic
2. set your lash to .001" hot, every day
3. rev kit
3 ways to do that:
1. hydraulic
2. set your lash to .001" hot, every day
3. rev kit
Posted By: DusterDave
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/20/11 01:05 AM
Quote:
keep the rollors in contact with the cam lobes ALL of THE TIME
3 ways to do that:
1. hydraulic
2. set your lash to .001" hot, every day
3. rev kit
I'll add 2 more:
4. Run no less than the recommended amount of valve spring pressure
5. Stay away from aggressive lobe profiles
Posted By: thecarfarmer
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/20/11 01:29 AM
Quote:Quote:Maybe some lobe designs but my solid roller Isky`s been kickin for 6-years street/strip and changed springs and re-built the lifters after several thousand miles and is still going strong. It`s .680-.660 lift w/275-280@ .050..............just saying.
The cam companies I have talked with don't recommend a solid roller for the street due to durability issues. Just sayin.
Well, there's the rub: some guys would be p1ssed if they have to pull the lifters and springs in several thousand miles. At your car's performance level, I think it's entirely reasonable.
But the OP was talking 'bout a stick in the 230's or 240's duration... I'd be cheesed off if I was replacing valvesprings and rebuilding lifters more often than the neighbor kid runs valves on his Civic for that kind of performance level.
Right now my pickup has just under .400" lobe lift; calculates to .670" (1.7 rockers) w/o lash or deflection. When I re-cam (aka "after I get a better paying job and finish this horrid divorce"), I'm thinking I should contact Harold Brookshire and have him set up a cam with gentler action and a little less lift. I can port the heads to try to offset any small power loss.
And it's a tamer combo than Thumper's Dart, but I still don't think it'll have the long-term longevity I want.
-Bill
Posted By: BSB67
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/20/11 01:32 AM
Aggressive is the lobe profile. You can get a pretty agressive lobe with .600" valve lift and less than 250 degrees at 0.050" cam. It might be small, but does not mean it is not agressive. A profile that takes the lifter from seat to 0.050" and back in 32 degrees or less is agressive IMO. These gerenally also go from seat to 0.200" and back in less than 110 degrees. Comp, Bullet, Lunati all have several profiles that move the valve this fast but are under 250 degrees @ 0.050". Manufacturers and distributers, in my experiance, will recommend 250/600 springs for these profiles even if you're only turning it 6500 rpm.
Posted By: moparniac
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/20/11 01:48 AM
so by these 2 which would you say is better for the street just by timing events 
bullet +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++comp
bullet +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++comp
Posted By: maximum entropy
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/20/11 01:50 AM
Quote:
keep the rollors in contact with the cam lobes ALL of THE TIME
3 ways to do that:
1. hydraulic
2. set your lash to .001" hot, every day
3. rev kit
winner!
Posted By: bodyworks racing
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/20/11 01:52 AM
i agree with awbdart contact bullit cams just got a 440 back from dyno 467 hp 501 torque with a mild hydraulic and just 10 to 1
Posted By: BSB67
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/20/11 01:59 AM
I'm not sure what your question is?
Posted By: moparniac
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/20/11 02:01 AM
Quote:
I'm not sure what your question is?
with the 2 cams in question not knowing the rest of the cam specs..
Posted By: BSB67
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/20/11 03:23 AM
Yeah...ya had me going..
Posted By: thecarfarmer
Re: SOLID ROLLER FOR THE STREET - 01/20/11 07:15 AM
Quote:
so by these 2 which would you say is better for the street just by timing events
bullet +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++comp
Easy: the one that matches the engine better.
Well, I can't see the seat durations; going from the .050" numbers, I'd expect the bullet with an intake closing 12.5 degrees earlier to be the better choice for low speeds. But, that's just a shot in the dark, without knowing anything about what it's going in, isn't it?
Quote:
Aggressive is the lobe profile. You can get a pretty agressive lobe with .600" valve lift and less than 250 degrees at 0.050" cam. It might be small, but does not mean it is not agressive. A profile that takes the lifter from seat to 0.050" and back in 32 degrees or less is agressive IMO. These gerenally also go from seat to 0.200" and back in less than 110 degrees. Comp, Bullet, Lunati all have several profiles that move the valve this fast but are under 250 degrees @ 0.050". Manufacturers and distributers, in my experiance, will recommend 250/600 springs for these profiles even if you're only turning it 6500 rpm.
True that.
The grind I happen to have is pretty gentle; the 1.7:1 rockers make the lift a little high... springs would have an easier time with 1.5:1 rockers. Which is the way I'd go, except the cam isn't really optimized at all. So, if I'm going to have a cam made, might as well use a mild profile that's going to give me around .600-ish lift w/ my existing rockers.
Some cam companies have multiple series of lobes, with different characteristics and applications. Some are for limited lift app's... way nasty opening and closing; harder on valvetrain.
As far as the OP's concerns, I'd contact someone who's really, really in the know. There are some engine builders here, and on the speedtalk board who can help pick catalog lobe profiles suitable for endurance applications. Or, a person can also go to a custom cam grinder (the guys who just do 'one offs'). There's a couple of those guys on speedtalk; these are guys who actually design the lobe profiles; so that's another option.