History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally?

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 12:53 AM

I do have a little insight through several friends and parts suppliers to Pauls program at that time, Paul was not against pushing the rules to the fullest extent allowed

Start with a unbored 400 block, bore it to 4.375 or 4.380, add a 3.763 stroke crankshaft and legal rods, two ring piston with back cut rings(Ultra lightweight psitons and pins

) a big, stout solid roller cam, a six pak and a lot of hard work and tesing and it will amaze you what that combination will do

I remember talking to Paul at Orange county racetrack one Wednesday night at a TNT, he made this comment to me about torque converters (I had ask him what he thought of the B&M O69J nine inch converters, he was in the middle of doing in car testing on the new T/A brand O69J just coming out at that time) His comment was that you had to try a bunch of different converters of the same brand and size to get one good one

Once you had that good one you where truly blessed. The differnces between a good one and a so so one was less than .030 and .4 (tenths) MPH

Paul had two other customers cars, 1970 and maybe 1971 Cuda's that where running the same combination(440 six pak) so he did get a lot of testing done with three cars with basically unlimited budjets(SP?) His car was always the fastets of the three

The Challengers with the T/A fibreglas hoods had a distinct advantage over the Cuda's with the steel shaker hoods, even back then

Another thing ou need to know is that Paul had been a Commercial airline pilot as well as being a drag racer in SS/A or SS/AA in a factory backed 1968 Hemi Dart

He quit flying once Chrysler offered him a full time ride driving Butch Leals SS 1973 or 1974 360 powered Cuda. He went from there to his own deal on the Challenger, so he always had good support(factory) and was expected to get good results

Posted By: Tig

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 01:16 AM

Quote:

Other photos of it at http://www.challengertaregistry.com/race_photos.html it is also the Sylvia Hauser car at that link.

The owner is a Moparts member.

I think he's called MrSixPak, from Sweden IIRC

Posted By: Mike Swann

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 01:51 AM

I seen him in Pomona a few years in a row and talked to him in the pits. If memory serves me correctly, Paul was running high 10.40's at the time with an R286 and a 1/2 inch lobe. Sounded really good.

Posted By: hemiviper588

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 02:23 AM

That car had two rear valances welded together with the void between filled with lead. Mike Dawson did that work at his shop in Detroit.

Posted By: BradH

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 02:45 AM

Quote:

Late 1970's I think he went 10.27 at around 127 mph. alfully fast at the time! How he did that i wonder! A friend of mine ran a ss/fa car to with some help from chrysler, ran a best of maybe some 10.90, at the time.

IIRC, Dave Boertman was dipping into the high 10s w/ his '71 383 SS Challenger, so Rossi going that much faster w/ the 440-6 sounds reasonable.

I noticed someone else above mentioned seeing Rossi going 10.4s, so those are in the same ballpark.

Posted By: SuperStockWagon

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 03:47 AM

Quote:

I do have a little insight through several friends and parts suppliers to Pauls program at that time, Paul was not against pushing the rules to the fullest extent allowed Start with a unbored 400 block, bore it to 4.375 or 4.380, add a 3.763 stroke crankshaft and legal rods, two ring piston with back cut rings(Ultra lightweight psitons and pins ) a big, stout solid roller cam, a six pak and a lot of hard work and tesing and it will amaze you what that combination will do I remember talking to Paul at Orange county racetrack one Wednesday night at a TNT, he made this comment to me about torque converters (I had ask him what he thought of the B&M O69J nine inch converters, he was in the middle of doing in car testing on the new T/A brand O69J just coming out at that time) His comment was that you had to try a bunch of different converters of the same brand and size to get one good one Once you had that good one you where truly blessed. The differnces between a good one and a so so one was less than .030 and .4 (tenths) MPH Paul had two other customers cars, 1970 and maybe 1971 Cuda's that where running the same combination(440 six pak) so he did get a lot of testing done with three cars with basically unlimited budjets(SP?) His car was always the fastets of the three The Challengers with the T/A fibreglas hoods had a distinct advantage over the Cuda's with the steel shaker hoods, even back then Another thing ou need to know is that Paul had been a Commercial airline pilot as well as being a drag racer in SS/A or SS/AA in a factory backed 1968 Hemi Dart He quit flying once Chrysler offered him a full time ride driving Butch Leals SS 1973 or 1974 360 powered Cuda. He went from there to his own deal on the Challenger, so he always had good support(factory) and was expected to get good results

Hey Cab, I noticed in a couple of rear shots of Rossi's Challenger it had an Idaho plate?? Was he or the car from this area?

Posted By: Ari440

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 04:03 AM

dos any one have any motor pics

what ever happened to the mirada he used to run

Posted By: SuperStockWagon

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 04:19 AM

Rossi's 6pk Challenger was probably one the top SS/FA cars in the country at the time, I'm not sure what the index was back then but you can darn sure bet knowing the quality and "engineering" of his cars they set and held many records.
Flash foward to 2010 and the current record holder in SS/FA(9.26@141mph)and EA(9.04@145mph) is Eric Bells 70 6pk Challenger..The difference in technology is amazing,yet the goal was still the same!
Kind of like comparing the original 68 Hemi Darts and Barracudas to the current SS/AH cars.

Attached picture 6367483-EricBells70.jpg

Attached picture 6367483-EricBells70.jpg

Posted By: SuperStockWagon

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 04:24 AM

Quote:

dos any one have any motor pics

what ever happened to the mirada he used to run

I'm not sure about the Mirada,but my brother in Colorado has Pauls old Rampage.

Attached picture 6367492-MATSVegas016.JPG

Posted By: sixpakdodge

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 04:58 AM

The Mirada is still in Rossi's colors and being raced on the east coast. Primarily at IHRA events.

Posted By: Mike Swann

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 05:19 AM

Quote:

dos any one have any motor pics

I think the key thing that helped his program was the 6 pak Edelbrock STR which was really a tunnel ram.

Posted By: TomsCharger70

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 09:26 AM

The Rossi Challenger is still running strong over here in Sweden. The owner (Mr. SixPack here on Moparts)ran it at one race weekend this summer.. He did put on a nice show with BIG wheelies...

Sadly I do not recall what 1/4 mile times it ran, I was busy with my own ride...

/Tom

Posted By: JAKE68

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 03:59 PM

Quote:

That car had two rear valances welded together with the void between filled with lead. Mike Dawson did that work at his shop in Detroit.

i helpped Mike do the work on that car back then. He also did some tricks to the gas tank???? Jake

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 04:37 PM

http://www.moparperformance.se/eng/

Posted By: BradH

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 05:49 PM

Quote:

I think the key thing that helped his program was the 6 pak Edelbrock STR which was really a tunnel ram.

I thought Rossi used the Weiand 6-bbl intake, not the STR... The Weiand fits the "tunnel ram" description better than the STR, too.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 10:42 PM

One of the tricks used in both Stock and SS on the 440 6 paks was to cut the deck way down to low deck specs and build the motor from thier, or mold a high deck pad onto a 400 block

I was offered a Eddy NHRA legal(it was on the car when it set a NHRA record in C/SA, not Pauls car

) 6 pak intake that would have requiered intake spacer to make it fit on a stock deck 440

The owner was selling that intake as he had quit racing NHRA stock and he knew I like 6 paks. Making the Weinand 440 6 pak SS manifold fit on a SS car with a cut down 440 deck would be no big deal, even back then with the rulses they had on intakes then

I was thinking the Ron Butler had a lot to do with building that car, maybe not

Posted By: hemiviper588

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/20/10 11:31 PM

I can't recall what else was done...but I do remember Mike saying that he didn't paid!

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/21/10 12:07 AM

Quote:

Also, I had heard years ago, that the car was finally ruled as "Not Legal" in Super Stock after it was weighed front to rear..

That thing was sure a wheelstander..

I had heard a rumor from some other class racers that the car was pretty well twisted up when Rossi sold it. Too many big wheelstands in it's life.

Jim Van Cleve Jr's Fairlane used to stand up pretty well too. Saw him and Rossi side by side once. It was awesome!

Posted By: Gavin

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/21/10 12:29 AM

Quote:

Pete, I think this one was Hausers previous 71 car, not the Rossi car..

Anyway, the Rossi car was awesome, one of the cars that got me into Mopars and Challengers in particular!
Here's another pic in another paint scheme!

Attached picture 6368784-hauserpink.jpg

Posted By: Gavin

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/21/10 12:32 AM

And another paint scheme!

Attached picture 6368789-hauserspod.jpg

Posted By: Mike Swann

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/21/10 01:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I think the key thing that helped his program was the 6 pak Edelbrock STR which was really a tunnel ram.

I thought Rossi used the Weiand 6-bbl intake, not the STR... The Weiand fits the "tunnel ram" description better than the STR, too.

Your right, I had my manufacturer's mixed up, me bad.

Posted By: Ari440

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/21/10 01:29 AM

whos headers was he using ?

Posted By: Mike Swann

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 12/21/10 02:51 AM

Just about everyone was running Hookers at that time.

Posted By: bill_greenwood

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/03/11 07:09 AM

A local S/S Hemi racer had a good look at that car back when he and his brother ran a SS/DA Cuda. It definitely lived on the razor's edge of the rule book. Something that sticks with me about that car was the rear suspension. Apparently the front spring eye was lowered by a couple of inches, which was the key to the big wheelstands. I was also told that on a really hard launch, the passenger window glass would pop out of the track at the top and then pop back in as the car rotated back to ground.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/03/11 07:13 PM

My dad ran a SS/GA, six pack, Challenger in the 70s and we crossed paths with Mr Rossi a few times. I think they ran each other in class elims 4 times and split the total. I don't remember the exact ETs, as I was young and that was a long time ago. All I remember, was whoever left first, seemed to win, the cars were that close. My dad did all his own engine work and the rules then were very restrictive. Untouched

heads, stock rods and other things. I know our car REALLY responded to the Weiand intake when he made the switch. I still have the intake setup. It is full of balsa-wood damns and other mods. We ran manual carbs. I know my dad had some obscure, availability letter, that he had at all the races, when the manual carbs were questioned. That motor had more sets of heads, cams and converters bolted to it, than you can imagine. Lots of power in valve angles and other things. Car setup was critical as well. Our car would hook anywhere.

Monte

Posted By: poppaj

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/04/11 02:25 AM

Quote:

A local S/S Hemi racer had a good look at that car back when he and his brother ran a SS/DA Cuda. It definitely lived on the razor's edge of the rule book. Something that sticks with me about that car was the rear suspension. Apparently the front spring eye was lowered by a couple of inches, which was the key to the big wheelstands. I was also told that on a really hard launch, the passenger window glass would pop out of the track at the top and then pop back in as the car rotated back to ground.

The front spring eye was raised about 1-1/2". That car was a rulebook twister for sure. The Wiend 6pk intake was the hot intake then, it was a .2-.3 gain with the mods and even more on some cars. Most guys ran 5.57-5.86 gears as well. Valvetrain breakage was a common problem when running a wedge back then, valves were checked after every pass.That is when class racing was fun, not a bracket race.

poppaj

Posted By: Ari440

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/04/11 02:47 AM

any body have pics of the mods made in the manifold

dos any one have pics of the motor

Posted By: LSP

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/04/11 02:50 AM

Quote:

I seen him in Pomona a few years in a row and talked to him in the pits. If memory serves me correctly, Paul was running high 10.40's at the time with an R286 and a 1/2 inch lobe. Sounded really good.

I built a motor where I used to work for Art Pacheco back in the early 90's. Cam was a .460" lobe, 287* @ .050", 2 ring piston, real similar to what else was posted here. Manifold was the Weiand, but didn't have all the "Mopar" dams in it, ran 10 teens IIRC, been a while. Wasn't a high strung deal like today, 7100-7200 max rpm IIRC.

Posted By: bill_greenwood

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/05/11 05:34 AM

That would make more sense, wouldn't it? Gosh, it was 30 years ago that I discussed that car with Al. They had a 1600 mile Cuda that was a modestly competitive DA car, and they were at the point that if they really wanted to run with the big dogs, they would have to cut up a car they already knew was becoming rare and valuable. Their mph was as good as anyone's, but the stock suspension was a liability, so they switched to SS/AA, and now Al runs A-stick

Posted By: MrSixpack

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/05/11 11:15 AM

Okey Guy's I saw this topic now, sorry for being slow

What can I help you with, picture of the engine will come soon.
Any hidden lead is impossible to find, I have searched for years without finding it.
I have some older articles made bu Mr. Rossi and about his car and engine program.

I know he was on the thinn line and sometimes over the line of being SS legal.
I'm in fact anal about rules as a local tech guy, so I stay on the right side of the rules, quite a bit in fact, no one should be able to say I'm cheating

My best with this moderat home built 440 sixpack is 10.21 and 131mph with a 1.39 sixty feet.

The hard part is to get a good sixty feet in this car, I have worked real hard with that

So everything is exactly as it was in 1979 except for the engine and transmisson.

On the great "Facebook" I'm friends with 2 past owners of the car, my old friend Joran Persaker and the loveley Sylvia Hauser.

I hope I can help answering any questions

Thanks

Video from this summer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR1Y6SzgDNs Challenger

Posted By: 340B5

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/09/11 11:17 PM

Nice Vid. You might say things are "looking up"

Posted By: mloboda

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/10/11 02:48 AM

Another video of car from outside

http://www.youtube.com/user/4406chally#p/u/11/A2p23ysLrc4

Posted By: MrSixpack

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/10/11 08:13 PM

I have had some questions about why I'm so slow.
The reason why, is my old dream to get it as close to the way Rossi had it.
So the chassie is 100% as it was, the engine is as close I could get without stretching the rules.
Engine is a 1972 440 with .055 bore, pistons is from Probe, rods is std. Eagle H-beam, crank is a .010-.010 1971 forged crank, rings is childes&alberts that I prepped for real LOW tension.
Camshaft is a Isky shelf cam, rockers are from Harland Sharp 1.6, beltdrive from Jesel.

Well you get the point

My new engine is no joke, this is an all out race engine, no funds saved, is just all out bad

Hope that will get me in the mid to high 9 sec. runs.

Take care

Posted By: 70AARcuda

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/10/11 08:38 PM

Took this one at the 1979 SuperNationals at the Ontario Motorspeedway

Attached picture 6409016-img031.jpg

Posted By: MrSixpack

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/10/11 09:22 PM

Quote:

Took this one at the 1979 SuperNationals at the Ontario Motorspeedway

Wow... nice.
Can I get this picture in high resolution from you?
I would like to use it on my homepage if it's okay with you?

Tanks

Posted By: 70AARcuda

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/10/11 09:31 PM

wow..that was shot with a 35mm camera back then and scanned...i can see if i have any others.

Posted By: MrSixpack

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/10/11 09:37 PM

Quote:

wow..that was shot with a 35mm camera back then and scanned...i can see if i have any others.

That would be awesome

Posted By: 6PACMAC

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/11/11 02:37 AM

Quote:

I have had some questions about why I'm so slow.
The reason why, is my old dream to get it as close to the way Rossi had it.
So the chassie is 100% as it was, the engine is as close I could get without stretching the rules.
Engine is a 1972 440 with .055 bore, pistons is from Probe, rods is std. Eagle H-beam, crank is a .010-.010 1971 forged crank, rings is childes&alberts that I prepped for real LOW tension.
Camshaft is a Isky shelf cam, rockers are from Harland Sharp 1.6, beltdrive from Jesel.

Well you get the point

My new engine is no joke, this is an all out race engine, no funds saved, is just all out bad

Hope that will get me in the mid to high 9 sec. runs.

Take care

Tell us about the heads, Which ones and what kind of work done on them

Posted By: MrSixpack

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/11/11 09:08 AM

Sorry, missed the heads.

They are 906 with ferrera 2.08-1.74, compcams 999 springs.
Ported but stock size runners, c chambers are 79.5 cc
Nothing fancy but they flow good, 306 cfm at .700 lift.
I don't have the flowpapers right now.

Take care

Posted By: deaks

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/11/11 09:44 AM

I remember when Sylvia Hauser was interviewed on TV and she took the TV reporter for a wheels up blast down the pod.
Great car

Mick

Posted By: 6PACMAC

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/11/11 01:42 PM

Quote:

Sorry, missed the heads.

They are 906 with ferrera 2.08-1.74, compcams 999 springs.
Ported but stock size runners, c chambers are 79.5 cc
Nothing fancy but they flow good, 306 cfm at .700 lift.
I don't have the flowpapers right now.

Take care

Are the intake port floors epoxied to then raise the port roof as much as possible? Just curious

Posted By: 1Fast340

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/11/11 05:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Sorry, missed the heads.

They are 906 with ferrera 2.08-1.74, compcams 999 springs.
Ported but stock size runners, c chambers are 79.5 cc
Nothing fancy but they flow good, 306 cfm at .700 lift.
I don't have the flowpapers right now.

Take care

Are the intake port floors epoxied to then raise the port roof as much as possible? Just curious

and where they done by the quiet man who wont speak at all if he would have a choise?

Posted By: MrSixpack

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/11/11 06:20 PM

6PACMAC yes a little epoxie on the floor, they are not maxed out, remeber I use the weiand intake.
The intake is just matched to the heads not welded or epoxie in the low part of the runners.

Hmmm.... quiet man that don't speak, one guy from Skelleftea and one guy from Norrkoping is the only one's that have touched the heads beside's me

Take care

Posted By: 1DGEMAN

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/13/11 01:51 AM

So Cab how many people in the 1979 Supernationals pic can you name?

Posted By: Ari440

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/13/11 05:25 AM

where the mech carbs an advantage over the vacuem (sp) carbs

Posted By: MrSixpack

Re: History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally? - 01/13/11 11:50 AM

Quote:

where the mech carbs an advantage over the vacuem (sp) carbs

I can't really say, but it's only legal to use the original vacuum carbs.
I don't think the mechanical carbs are better to a well dialed in vacuum system.

Just my

History question - How fast was Paul Rossi's SS Chally?