Posted By: Mancini Racing
2011 Challenger Drag Pak
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 04:39 PM
Yeah...I saw that David. The whining over on Class Racer has already started and there is not even any racing yet.
MoparŪ Introduces 2011 Challenger Drag Pak for Sportsman Racers
I think it's way, way, cool. Look out CJ's.
This One Has a V-10 and is Race-ready
AUBURN HILLS, Mich., Oct. 1 /PRNewswire/ --
MoparŪ Challenger V-10 Drag Pak built for sanctioned NHRA Stock and Super Stock configurations
Priced at $85,512, Mopar to build 70 serialized units
Production starts 1Q 2011, applications available now at local Dodge dealerships or at www.mopar.com
Past Mopar Challenger Drag Pak model-year programs sold out (2009 and 2010)
Racers rejoice. MoparŪ is dropping a V-10 into the iconic Dodge Challenger.
The new race-only V-10 powered rear-wheel drive 2011 Mopar Challenger Drag Pak features an 8.4-liter 512 cubic-inch engine with a 2-speed automatic transmission. Mopar will showcase its new drag car this evening at the Dodge Viper Owner's Invitational in Salt Lake City. The vehicle will then make its way to the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) show in Las Vegas from Nov. 2-5, and the Performance Racing Industry (PRI) show in Orlando from Dec. 9-11.
"With the introduction of our new 2011 Mopar Challenger Drag Pak, Mopar will be the only place to get a factory-built V-10-powered race-ready drag car," said Pietro Gorlier, President and CEO of Mopar, Chrysler Group's service, parts and customer-care brand. "Mopar's new Challenger Drag Pak is a race rocket that will appeal to racers, collectors, dealers, and Dodge Viper owners."
Based on the 2011 Dodge Challenger and finished in a Stock Eliminator and Super Stock configuration, the 2011 Mopar Challenger V-10 Drag Pak is the first and only 500-plus cubic-inch V-10 drag-race package car. The car features competition wheels and tires, a Mopar solid rear axle with performance gear ratio, a 2-speed drag race transmission with integrated roll control, a complete competition fuel system with fuel cell, and a complete interior with gauge package.
The Mopar Challenger V-10 Drag Pak features a Bright White paint scheme with color options. The Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) is $85,512 and production begins early next year.
Mopar offers three options with this vehicle. First, the Competition Package includes an eight-point roll cage, six-point safety harness and a mesh window net (MSRP: $7,950, part number P5155820). Second, a Mopar logo body wrap (MSRP: $950, part number P5155892) and a range of body colors (MSRP: $6,800, part number P5155893). With the Competition Package, the car is ready to go down the drag strip.
Orders must be submitted using the Mopar Challenger V-10 Drag Pak Application, which is available now at www.Mopar.com, the Mopar Direct Connection Tech Line at 888-528-HEMI (4364), or a local Dodge dealer. Customers should work with their local Dodge dealer to submit their application.
2011 Mopar Challenger V-10 Drag Pak Highlights
Identification plate with unique serial number sequence
Primed and painted body, color options available
512 cid V-10 engine
Unique engine calibration
2-speed automatic transmission with shift assembly and built-in roll control
Special body-in-white modified for drag racing
No windshield wiper assembly
No HVAC system (includes block off plates)
No rear seats
No power-steering system
No underbody heat shields
Complete fuel cell assembly
Race headers with collectors
Modified tunnel for transmission clearance and one-piece drive shaft
Raised floor above differential for solid-axle conversion clearance
Polycarbonate door windows
Smart-glass door window system
Solid engine mounts
Mopar solid rear axle
Lightweight seats to accommodate 6-point harness
Special modified K-member with drop-out crossmember
Lightweight drag-race only front brake assembly
Manual rack-and-pinion steering
Front chin spoiler
Lightweight cooling module with electric fan
Lightweight instrument panel assembly
Special cable-operated decklid release
Special cable-operated throttle pedal and linkage
Race-style wheels and tires
MoparŪ Introduces 2011 Challenger Drag Pak for Sportsman Racers
I think it's way, way, cool. Look out CJ's.
This One Has a V-10 and is Race-ready
AUBURN HILLS, Mich., Oct. 1 /PRNewswire/ --
MoparŪ Challenger V-10 Drag Pak built for sanctioned NHRA Stock and Super Stock configurations
Priced at $85,512, Mopar to build 70 serialized units
Production starts 1Q 2011, applications available now at local Dodge dealerships or at www.mopar.com
Past Mopar Challenger Drag Pak model-year programs sold out (2009 and 2010)
Racers rejoice. MoparŪ is dropping a V-10 into the iconic Dodge Challenger.
The new race-only V-10 powered rear-wheel drive 2011 Mopar Challenger Drag Pak features an 8.4-liter 512 cubic-inch engine with a 2-speed automatic transmission. Mopar will showcase its new drag car this evening at the Dodge Viper Owner's Invitational in Salt Lake City. The vehicle will then make its way to the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) show in Las Vegas from Nov. 2-5, and the Performance Racing Industry (PRI) show in Orlando from Dec. 9-11.
"With the introduction of our new 2011 Mopar Challenger Drag Pak, Mopar will be the only place to get a factory-built V-10-powered race-ready drag car," said Pietro Gorlier, President and CEO of Mopar, Chrysler Group's service, parts and customer-care brand. "Mopar's new Challenger Drag Pak is a race rocket that will appeal to racers, collectors, dealers, and Dodge Viper owners."
Based on the 2011 Dodge Challenger and finished in a Stock Eliminator and Super Stock configuration, the 2011 Mopar Challenger V-10 Drag Pak is the first and only 500-plus cubic-inch V-10 drag-race package car. The car features competition wheels and tires, a Mopar solid rear axle with performance gear ratio, a 2-speed drag race transmission with integrated roll control, a complete competition fuel system with fuel cell, and a complete interior with gauge package.
The Mopar Challenger V-10 Drag Pak features a Bright White paint scheme with color options. The Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) is $85,512 and production begins early next year.
Mopar offers three options with this vehicle. First, the Competition Package includes an eight-point roll cage, six-point safety harness and a mesh window net (MSRP: $7,950, part number P5155820). Second, a Mopar logo body wrap (MSRP: $950, part number P5155892) and a range of body colors (MSRP: $6,800, part number P5155893). With the Competition Package, the car is ready to go down the drag strip.
Orders must be submitted using the Mopar Challenger V-10 Drag Pak Application, which is available now at www.Mopar.com, the Mopar Direct Connection Tech Line at 888-528-HEMI (4364), or a local Dodge dealer. Customers should work with their local Dodge dealer to submit their application.
2011 Mopar Challenger V-10 Drag Pak Highlights
Identification plate with unique serial number sequence
Primed and painted body, color options available
512 cid V-10 engine
Unique engine calibration
2-speed automatic transmission with shift assembly and built-in roll control
Special body-in-white modified for drag racing
No windshield wiper assembly
No HVAC system (includes block off plates)
No rear seats
No power-steering system
No underbody heat shields
Complete fuel cell assembly
Race headers with collectors
Modified tunnel for transmission clearance and one-piece drive shaft
Raised floor above differential for solid-axle conversion clearance
Polycarbonate door windows
Smart-glass door window system
Solid engine mounts
Mopar solid rear axle
Lightweight seats to accommodate 6-point harness
Special modified K-member with drop-out crossmember
Lightweight drag-race only front brake assembly
Manual rack-and-pinion steering
Front chin spoiler
Lightweight cooling module with electric fan
Lightweight instrument panel assembly
Special cable-operated decklid release
Special cable-operated throttle pedal and linkage
Race-style wheels and tires
Posted By: fullmetaljacket
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 04:39 PM
Wow is the word.
Body in flight is more like it.
Body in flight is more like it.
Posted By: StrokerPost
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 05:08 PM
Forgive my ignorance of "class racing", but, whats the point of a V10 chally? I thought that class cars had to have engines that are available in production vehicles? Or did I miss an earlier announcement? 
Posted By: HEMIFRED
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 05:32 PM
unless the rules have changed
TO QUALIFY AS PRODUCTION IT TAKES A MINIMUM OF 100 VEHICLES
TO QUALIFY AS PRODUCTION IT TAKES A MINIMUM OF 100 VEHICLES
Posted By: Bill_T
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 05:38 PM
Now purists can run a powerglide and claim they are a factory option....
Posted By: BBR
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 05:38 PM
Wow.
Posted By: 1Fast340
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 05:43 PM
thats some carzy stuff, almost like the SS darts and barracudas from a long time ago but to compete with the fords,maybe a twinscrew ontopp of said V10 for 2012 ? 
Posted By: HEMIFRED
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 05:47 PM
no serious hood scoop ?
maybe another entry point ??
maybe another entry point ??
Posted By: 1Fast340
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 05:53 PM
Quote:
no serious hood scoop ?
maybe another entry point ??
good eyes
if you look at these pics you can see that it takes the air in somewhere in the front,but i have no idea what that would do to the space for a good radiator
http://www.ontariostreetcar.com/2010/10/01/v10-challenger-lives-as-a-drag-pak/
Posted By: HEMIFRED
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 06:01 PM
Quote:Quote:
no serious hood scoop ?
maybe another entry point ??
good eyes
if you look at these pics you can see that it takes the air in somewhere in the front,but i have no idea what that would do to the space for a good radiator
http://www.ontariostreetcar.com/2010/10/01/v10-challenger-lives-as-a-drag-pak/
Maybe they did some R&D and realized there's a very high pressure point on or at the outer edge of the bumper. WEhen I had Buick GN's the chosen point of fresh air was there
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 06:10 PM
There you go, Fred. Right up your alley.
Next thing you know, someone will dip one, move the wheels around, and, WALLA!! Do some match racing...it's deja vu all over again.
I love it!!
Next thing you know, someone will dip one, move the wheels around, and, WALLA!! Do some match racing...it's deja vu all over again.
I love it!!
Posted By: YGBSM
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 06:18 PM
Very, very cool. Turnkey for a price less than building out a 2010 6.1 Drag Pak. I am very, very interested! Way to go Mopar!
Posted By: YGBSM
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 06:33 PM
Quote:
Forgive my ignorance of "class racing", but, whats the point of a V10 chally? I thought that class cars had to have engines that are available in production vehicles? Or did I miss an earlier announcement?
It may be that there will be a V-10 street legal Challenger in 2011 . . . that would help qualify it
Posted By: Mancini Racing
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 06:43 PM
NHRA is trying to bring back the rivalry between the manufacturers in Stock and Super Stock.
They're also trying to be flexible regarding engine/body combinations to allow the Drag Pak (and Cobra Jet Mustangs) to run various classes.
This why there is a 5.9L Magnum listed in the classification guide for the Challenger and also a 428 and 352 (both based on Ford Racing's 351W platform) for the CJ Mustangs.
Now, were the heck is the 2011 COPO Camaro...?!?
They're also trying to be flexible regarding engine/body combinations to allow the Drag Pak (and Cobra Jet Mustangs) to run various classes.
This why there is a 5.9L Magnum listed in the classification guide for the Challenger and also a 428 and 352 (both based on Ford Racing's 351W platform) for the CJ Mustangs.
Now, were the heck is the 2011 COPO Camaro...?!?
Posted By: mr_340
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 06:56 PM
Quote:
NHRA is trying to bring back the rivalry between the manufacturers in Stock and Super Stock.
I think that is a great idea. It worked in the 1960s. So, is the V10 SS only or is it going to be rated at 400HP like the original Viper engine?
Posted By: StrokerPost
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 07:10 PM
Quote:
They're also trying to be flexible regarding engine/body combinations to allow the Drag Pak (and Cobra Jet Mustangs) to run various classes.
This why there is a 5.9L Magnum listed in the classification guide for the Challenger and also a 428 and 352 (both based on Ford Racing's 351W platform) for the CJ Mustangs.
Gotcha.
I wonder how they will place the car HP wise since there is nothing else out there like it. 
Should be interesting. Any idea what kinda power the DP version of the V10 will make?
Posted By: HEMIDARTS
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 07:17 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
no serious hood scoop ?
maybe another entry point ??
good eyes
if you look at these pics you can see that it takes the air in somewhere in the front,but i have no idea what that would do to the space for a good radiator
http://www.ontariostreetcar.com/2010/10/01/v10-challenger-lives-as-a-drag-pak/
Maybe they did some R&D and realized there's a very high pressure point on or at the outer edge of the bumper. WEhen I had Buick GN's the chosen point of fresh air was there
It might be because the viper has an air induction system at the front of the grill.
Here are 2 pics to show what im talking about.
Posted By: HEMIDARTS
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 07:18 PM
2
Posted By: sixpackbee
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 07:21 PM
I think it is cool right up to the 2 speed trans in a heavy car. Crazy. At least put a 3 speed in it.
Posted By: Locomotion
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 07:26 PM
Quote:
Forgive my ignorance of "class racing", but, whats the point of a V10 chally? I thought that class cars had to have engines that are available in production vehicles? Or did I miss an earlier announcement?
NHRA rulebook has a little note that requests for exceptions can be made for limited run cars or combos.
I forgot the wording & don't feel like digging for an old NHRA rulebook at the moment.
Posted By: HEMIFRED
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 07:28 PM
Quote:
I think it is cool right up to the 2 speed trans in a heavy car. Crazy. At least put a 3 speed in it.
why ? a ton of 3000 lb cars run a glide. it will fly with the right converter and less costly than 3 speed
translated which means a 7k proflite would be needed to replace a 3 speed for serious racing. that would be an automatic cost increase
Posted By: topside
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 07:28 PM
Will the trans be called a MoParGLide?
Posted By: HEMIFRED
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 07:32 PM
Ok where's ZIPPY with the good inside info ??
Posted By: sixpackbee
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 07:44 PM
Quote:
why ? a ton of 3000 lb cars run a glide. it will fly with the right converter and less costly than 3 speed
translated which means a 7k proflite would be needed to replace a 3 speed for serious racing. that would be an automatic cost increase
I don't think this will be a 3000 lb. car. Even so a three speed would accelerate better. Once it became legal to put TH in place of a Glide in SS most racers could not do it quick enough. The full blown Rosler glide is not much less than a Pro Flite. I still say it is a mistake but opinions will vary.
Posted By: ZIPPY
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 07:46 PM
Well...it looks like I picked a really good week to go on vacation 
It's encouraging to see positive comments;
DP has been a ton of work and there is much more to do yet, it's nice to see it paying off already with happiness and compliments.
Sorry I had to deny it's existence for so long, everyone who asked (including David) knows secrets are normal, and the way things are done....once sworn to secrecy, that was that for what seemed like an eternity. It is one heck of a relief to get that V-10 powered cat outta the bag and get things rollin'.
It's encouraging to see positive comments;
DP has been a ton of work and there is much more to do yet, it's nice to see it paying off already with happiness and compliments.
Sorry I had to deny it's existence for so long, everyone who asked (including David) knows secrets are normal, and the way things are done....once sworn to secrecy, that was that for what seemed like an eternity. It is one heck of a relief to get that V-10 powered cat outta the bag and get things rollin'.
Posted By: Mancini Racing
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 08:11 PM
I sure know that Zippy!
We operated in a cloak of secrecy during my tenure!
We operated in a cloak of secrecy during my tenure!
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 08:25 PM
I couldn't help it...I had to check out classracer dot com to see the reaction. They are close to armed insurrection over there. For years they whined about no spectators for Stock Eliminator, now that there is something to draw them they whine about that.
A revival of the old Chrysler/Ford rivalry from the mid sixties may be just the shot in the arm the sport needs. If GM gets involved, that would be better. But, those of us who were there remember that GM was not a major player in the mid sixties doorslammer wars, regardless of what is believed, and the sport still thrived. The Ford/Chrysler wars are what moved drag racing to the front burner...they put the money in it, and pushed for the exposure. It could happen again...deja vu all over again. I lived through it the first time, and it is really, really neat to think I could see it again.
I race Nostalgia because I'm a nostalgia type of guy. But, I think this is neat. What is neat, to me, is that with all the different DP combos it is concieveable that Chrysler will OWN the top several classes in Stock Eliminator.
Now, that IS cool.
A revival of the old Chrysler/Ford rivalry from the mid sixties may be just the shot in the arm the sport needs. If GM gets involved, that would be better. But, those of us who were there remember that GM was not a major player in the mid sixties doorslammer wars, regardless of what is believed, and the sport still thrived. The Ford/Chrysler wars are what moved drag racing to the front burner...they put the money in it, and pushed for the exposure. It could happen again...deja vu all over again. I lived through it the first time, and it is really, really neat to think I could see it again.
I race Nostalgia because I'm a nostalgia type of guy. But, I think this is neat. What is neat, to me, is that with all the different DP combos it is concieveable that Chrysler will OWN the top several classes in Stock Eliminator.
Now, that IS cool.
Posted By: Mancini Racing
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 08:32 PM
The Stock/Super Stock racers who run the traditional "musclecar" combinations are a bit upset due to soft HP/weight factors of the Drag Paks and CJ Stangs.
They want NHRA to dump the new cars into a EFI class or even a "A/FX, B/FX, C/FX, D/FX" struture.
I understand their concerns and hopefully NHRA can come to some resolution and keep everyone happy.
They want NHRA to dump the new cars into a EFI class or even a "A/FX, B/FX, C/FX, D/FX" struture.
I understand their concerns and hopefully NHRA can come to some resolution and keep everyone happy.
Posted By: 1DGEMAN
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 08:46 PM
the Dp's and Cj's are an abomination in Stock eliminator. They are purpose built race cars not available to the general public or street legal. They belong in Super/Stock with the proper HP ratings.
Posted By: Locomotion
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 08:46 PM
Quote:
Will the trans be called a MoParGLide?
Chrysler did have their own 2-speed, in the '50's I think, called a Powerflite!
But I also don't understand using a 2-speed from a performance standpoint or that it's probably based on a Powerglide, even if it is an all-aftermarket unit.
Posted By: B1Fish540
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 09:23 PM
Quote:Quote:
Will the trans be called a MoParGLide?
Chrysler did have their own 2-speed, in the '50's I think, called a Powerflite!
But I also don't understand using a 2-speed from a performance standpoint or that it's probably based on a Powerglide, even if it is an all-aftermarket unit.
Myron, could it be that the Big V10 has more than enuff torque for the lighter Chally? That would be my guess as to why the PG or 2speed Poweflite
Posted By: JERICOGTX
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 09:34 PM
With the proper gear, and convertor, that 2 speed will be just fine, and with only one shift down track a animal to run in the bracket program. It states trans with "roll control" Can we assume it means trans brake? If so every racer in Stock will want NHRA to allow them for everyone...
Posted By: Locomotion
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 09:49 PM
Dave, That could be a safe assumption. But possibly a Powerglide-based trans on a factory built car?
Yea, trans brakes in Stock would be another step in the wrong direction. There may be more details we aren't aware of, but it's hard to imagine an engine with well over 100 more cubic inches than a 6.1 Hemi and "Unique engine calibration" being classified in Stock, unless NHRA starts them with and even more conservative HP rating than the other Drag Pack engines. But 512 cubic inches is the only engine spec we have to go on and compare with at the moment.
Yea, trans brakes in Stock would be another step in the wrong direction. There may be more details we aren't aware of, but it's hard to imagine an engine with well over 100 more cubic inches than a 6.1 Hemi and "Unique engine calibration" being classified in Stock, unless NHRA starts them with and even more conservative HP rating than the other Drag Pack engines. But 512 cubic inches is the only engine spec we have to go on and compare with at the moment.
Posted By: HEMIFRED
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/01/10 10:21 PM
I don't think this will be a 3000 lb. car. Even so a three speed would accelerate better. Once it became legal to put TH in place of a Glide in SS most racers could not do it quick enough. The full blown Rosler glide is not much less than a Pro Flite. I still say it is a mistake but opinions will vary.
drag pac weighs 3100 ? Rossler is still a glide and proflite a 3 speed ?
Ford is also using a glide in both Cobra supercharger Mustang versions
Posted By: BBR
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/02/10 03:34 AM
So Zippy, is Mopar going to offer V10 motor mounts, swap headers, etc as well?
Posted By: HEMIFRED
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/02/10 04:00 AM
9.40's just a rumor or ??? 
Posted By: ZIPPY
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/02/10 04:08 AM
I don't have all the program details memorized, and I will have to wait to give a definite answer.
However I would believe so...because for the past two years, all the special pieces were accounted for with P numbers in the MP catalogs + the documents that come with the car. Whatever small items that could not be easily documented, a person could call up and ask about.
The parts program will most likely be secondary to the car program (as in previous years) so it might be awhile before everything is etched in stone.
However I would believe so...because for the past two years, all the special pieces were accounted for with P numbers in the MP catalogs + the documents that come with the car. Whatever small items that could not be easily documented, a person could call up and ask about.
The parts program will most likely be secondary to the car program (as in previous years) so it might be awhile before everything is etched in stone.
Posted By: YGBSM
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/02/10 01:35 PM
The specs were published last night:
Rear axle "Strange, 9" Gear" . . . so does this mean it comes with a Ford 9"-type instead of a Dana 60 type?
Rear axle "Strange, 9" Gear" . . . so does this mean it comes with a Ford 9"-type instead of a Dana 60 type?
Posted By: RonTheAnnouncer
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/02/10 02:56 PM
Mopar body and motor, GM trans, Ford rear...all one big happy family! 
I do like the idea of a/fx, b/fx, etc. Would these classes be for stock competition, or super stock? are there enough cars to make f/x it's own class? Lots of possibilities there.
I do like the idea of a/fx, b/fx, etc. Would these classes be for stock competition, or super stock? are there enough cars to make f/x it's own class? Lots of possibilities there.
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/02/10 03:01 PM
Quote:
MSRP $85,512,
512 cid V-10 engine
Unique engine calibration
2-speed automatic transmission
512... Cool, and the price with 512 in it.
2-speed... is that an aftermarket powerglide?
$85k... not cheap, but that class is beyond me anyway.
Glad to see some factory cars.
It would be cool for us lower dollar bracket racers to get a body widely available for $10k or so. I mean they can sell a full up 6 cyl car for around $20k, so a no motor/trans/interior, etc body should be affordable to put a bracket race suspension and engine into.
Posted By: nssracer1
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/02/10 07:21 PM
I love my 2009 DragPak car. Its Indy built 6.1 is a great race engine. Its mixture of new car tech and some old school drivetrain makes a killer race car. So when I heard about this V10 DragPak I thought this could be a fun Super Stocker. Now that I see the specs I dont know. I think alot of Mopar purists would not ever put a Powerglide or a Ford rear end in a Mopar. I can tell you this racer would never do it. So it hard spend this kind of money and take this car home and put a AandA 904 and a bullet proof Dana just so I can sleep at night. Call me crazy but I dont think Im alone with this line of thinking. Im going have to think about this one. I wish Mopar would consider not using these nonMopar parts. Thanks, Doug
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/02/10 08:16 PM
Doug,
You are one of the most respected and winningest Mopar drivers there are...........but really...you have got to be kidding with those comments. You may not get one of these because it has a totally aftermarket, 2 speed race trans and a totally aftermarket race rear. Sure they are based on Ford and GM parts....but really...your serious??...wow
Mopar purists......would that include somebody like....say...Al Corda....he fully switched to Pontiac...doubt a trans and rear would bother him.
C,mon man, you need one of these.
Monte
You are one of the most respected and winningest Mopar drivers there are...........but really...you have got to be kidding with those comments. You may not get one of these because it has a totally aftermarket, 2 speed race trans and a totally aftermarket race rear. Sure they are based on Ford and GM parts....but really...your serious??...wow
Mopar purists......would that include somebody like....say...Al Corda....he fully switched to Pontiac...doubt a trans and rear would bother him.
C,mon man, you need one of these.
Monte
Posted By: Irun5snd8th
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/02/10 08:46 PM
Didnt Chrysler have a two speed at one time back in the 60's? Who said that it was going to be a powerglide in the cars anyway?
Also as a FYI Rossler makes a three speed based on a TH400. There is one in Wheatcraft's Neon. He wore me out when I put the glide in mine.
How many 9" Fords are in the SS/AH cars that everyone on this site salivates over?? If it comes stock from the factory with those parts on it then its now a Mopar part in my book. The Dana 60 wasnt a Dodge 60. It was made by Dana and put installed in the Mopars.
OK now let the
begin.
BTW Mopar is doing their job because I am seriously considering building a new Challenger. I had no reason to think about a new car until these things hit the ground.
Also as a FYI Rossler makes a three speed based on a TH400. There is one in Wheatcraft's Neon. He wore me out when I put the glide in mine.
How many 9" Fords are in the SS/AH cars that everyone on this site salivates over?? If it comes stock from the factory with those parts on it then its now a Mopar part in my book. The Dana 60 wasnt a Dodge 60. It was made by Dana and put installed in the Mopars.
OK now let the
begin. BTW Mopar is doing their job because I am seriously considering building a new Challenger. I had no reason to think about a new car until these things hit the ground.
Posted By: nssracer1
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/02/10 09:37 PM
Monte, Thanks for the kind words and I probaly will get one but I will just have to do a few upgrades!
Posted By: jake4cars
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/02/10 10:19 PM
Quote:
I couldn't help it...I had to check out classracer dot com to see the reaction. They are close to armed insurrection over there. For years they whined about no spectators for Stock Eliminator, now that there is something to draw them they whine about that.
A revival of the old Chrysler/Ford rivalry from the mid sixties may be just the shot in the arm the sport needs. If GM gets involved, that would be better. But, those of us who were there remember that GM was not a major player in the mid sixties doorslammer wars, regardless of what is believed, and the sport still thrived. The Ford/Chrysler wars are what moved drag racing to the front burner...they put the money in it, and pushed for the exposure. It could happen again...deja vu all over again. I lived through it the first time, and it is really, really neat to think I could see it again.
I race Nostalgia because I'm a nostalgia type of guy. But, I think this is neat. What is neat, to me, is that with all the different DP combos it is concieveable that Chrysler will OWN the top several classes in Stock Eliminator.
Now, that IS cool.
took a straw poll from some of my buddies since the news came out and have had some interesting comments, the focus group here is at least 55 years old and one owns an original A-990 Dodge. None were impressed which at first surprised me but then it occurred to me that this is a rehash of the opinions back in the 60's when muscle cars first came out. I looked through my archives of old hot rod magazines and reread the comments and articles printed then about how the factory was destroying hot rodding and drag racing with the introduction of these factory built race cars. The flatheads, 394 Oldsmobiles and early Hemis suddenly were rendered obsolete when matched up with a 409 Chevy or Max Wedge or even a 427 Galaxie. The argument of we build our cars compared to signing a check came back into play which at some times always does. I too had to wander over to classracer.com and noticed they held the same opinion as my peers. One posting over there made sense in that maybe NHRA could initialize a class just for the newer cars and keep the old school cars for the old school guys. Personally I think the new cars are cool but I am firmly a NSS guy. My friends worry not only about the value of their cars plunging but also the loss of interest they speculate people will have towards the old cars. My opinion is I didn't build the car to be my 401 so I don't care where the value goes, my wife can worry about that when I am dead. As far as loss of interest goes, any car show or NSS race I have been to always draws a bunch of people to our old cars. Doug Duell can live the best of both worlds with the race cars he owns and that is a pretty cool place to be.
I think as a group, we should be more concerned about the alarming loss of drag strips lately. Missouri just lost one, Gateway is unfortunately on the ropes I hear and Quaker City is soon to be going up for auction. Man, I am glad I made to the Hemi reunion there a couple of years ago. At any rate, if the venue problem isn't stabilized it won't matter what anyone builds, I am too old to go back to the Berlin Turnpike at midnight to race my junk, my bedtime gets earlier and earlier,LOL
Joey
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/02/10 11:52 PM
Some people, especially older racers, are VERY resistant to change. They DO NOT embrace new technology and constantly reminicse about the "good old days", that were in all actuality, not that great. Sure, the cars were cool, but thats about it. There were no decent parts, not many places to race and the pay was laughable. I can see them not embracing the "new" cars, because it is not what they grew up with and they are not comfortable with EFI and new technology.
EFI is the way of the future, without a doubt and it has already been proven what these new combos are capable of. NHRA will get a better handle on the factors and I would not be worried about all the old school cars being factored out. One thing I would like to see, is a combining of both worlds. Similar to IHRA "crate motor" classes. I would like to see you be able to drop a late model EFI HEMI into a Duster, Challenger, Volare, whatever. The best of both. Old style cool cars and modern power. It would be easy. A factor is a factor, does not matter if the weight goes in a 2010 Challenger, or a 70 Challenger
Monte
EFI is the way of the future, without a doubt and it has already been proven what these new combos are capable of. NHRA will get a better handle on the factors and I would not be worried about all the old school cars being factored out. One thing I would like to see, is a combining of both worlds. Similar to IHRA "crate motor" classes. I would like to see you be able to drop a late model EFI HEMI into a Duster, Challenger, Volare, whatever. The best of both. Old style cool cars and modern power. It would be easy. A factor is a factor, does not matter if the weight goes in a 2010 Challenger, or a 70 Challenger
Monte
Posted By: Barnstorm
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 12:23 AM
Me checking out Randy Hopkins Cobra Jet. Nice hat says it all. Doesn't look like a race car inside..just factory nice. Even has the SYNCH voice command...say "run 8.52" and it does. I'm 66 and would race one if I hadmoe $. I'd keep the 64 car because it sounds better.
![Attached picture 6229557-Brainerd2010015[640x480].jpg](https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/6229557-Brainerd2010015[640x480].jpg "6229557-Brainerd2010015[640x480].jpg")
Posted By: HEMIFRED
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 12:38 AM
Quote:
Some people, especially older racers, are VERY resistant to change.
of which running 1.7 under the index or whatever . they remember using the national record with allowing a tenth beakout for handicap in running for the Eliminator .
to them this "NEW" way sucks. Don Frezel hit the AA/S record already
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 03:40 AM
I think Jake and Monte both made great points. I guess, too, I'm resistant to change....but, then again, not all change is good, either.
I remember all the whining and carrying on back in 67 when S&M and Landy started the exodus from funny cars back to legitimate doorslammer racing by starting the factory SS/Clinic program. In fact, I have around here an old Super Stock & Drag Illustrated Magazine with a large article named "Are the factories killing Super Stock racing?". I mean, it was close to being a national scandal. We've seen it all before. It will not happen today anymore than it happened then.
I'm a geezer. I'm not interested in racing the new technology, not because I dislike it, but it's not my thing. I grew up drag racing in the mid to late sixties, the Hemi B-bodies are what I love and will continue to race. I don't see the Nostalgia scene losing steam any time soon. People still love the old stuff, and that isn't going to change. Legendary cars are still going to be legends.
That being said, I do think that the new cars are very, very good for the sport, as a general rule. To me, the cookie cutter Top Fuel, Funny Car, and even Pro Stock show has gone stale, and I don't even bother to watch it on TV anymore. I simply don't care. The only class I care about at all is SS/AH.
These cars have put some interest back in it. Although not interested in racing one, I find the fact of Chrysler owning the top several classes in Stock Eliminator really cool, and interesting. The thought of a Viper Challenger going toe to toe with one of the supercharged CJ's very, very interesting. I also think it can only help Chrysler, as it creates interest. They've seemed to have learned the lessons from the 62 on up time period pretty well.
What I think would be a good idea, is to put several cars in the hands of some teams and have them tour the country, local drag strips and dealerships...take the cars to the people, rather than trying to get folks to drive 500 miles to an event to see the cars. Maybe even get some of the Fords to do some match racing.
The more things change, the more they remain the same.....
I remember all the whining and carrying on back in 67 when S&M and Landy started the exodus from funny cars back to legitimate doorslammer racing by starting the factory SS/Clinic program. In fact, I have around here an old Super Stock & Drag Illustrated Magazine with a large article named "Are the factories killing Super Stock racing?". I mean, it was close to being a national scandal. We've seen it all before. It will not happen today anymore than it happened then.
I'm a geezer. I'm not interested in racing the new technology, not because I dislike it, but it's not my thing. I grew up drag racing in the mid to late sixties, the Hemi B-bodies are what I love and will continue to race. I don't see the Nostalgia scene losing steam any time soon. People still love the old stuff, and that isn't going to change. Legendary cars are still going to be legends.
That being said, I do think that the new cars are very, very good for the sport, as a general rule. To me, the cookie cutter Top Fuel, Funny Car, and even Pro Stock show has gone stale, and I don't even bother to watch it on TV anymore. I simply don't care. The only class I care about at all is SS/AH.
These cars have put some interest back in it. Although not interested in racing one, I find the fact of Chrysler owning the top several classes in Stock Eliminator really cool, and interesting. The thought of a Viper Challenger going toe to toe with one of the supercharged CJ's very, very interesting. I also think it can only help Chrysler, as it creates interest. They've seemed to have learned the lessons from the 62 on up time period pretty well.
What I think would be a good idea, is to put several cars in the hands of some teams and have them tour the country, local drag strips and dealerships...take the cars to the people, rather than trying to get folks to drive 500 miles to an event to see the cars. Maybe even get some of the Fords to do some match racing.
The more things change, the more they remain the same.....
Posted By: 340Cuda
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 02:26 PM
Quote:
One thing I would like to see, is a combining of both worlds. Similar to IHRA "crate motor" classes. I would like to see you be able to drop a late model EFI HEMI into a Duster, Challenger, Volare, whatever.
Sounds like Super Stock GT, that being said I don't think all the Gen 3 Hemi engines are in the classfication guide but those for the Drag Paks are.
SUPER STOCK/GT
Reserved for foreign and domestic factory-production two-door coupes, two-door sedans, sports cars, or convertibles with any production V-8 engine of the same make. Year of engine optional. Only those engines and/or bodies listed in the Official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide are eligible for competition. Also see WEIGHT. Cars will be classified using the shipping weight of the body divided by the horsepower or performance rating of the engine used. Factory production rear-wheel-drive cars must have originally been equipped with a V-6 or V-8.
Posted By: theclutcher
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 02:47 PM
Maybe I'm stupid and poor but 85 grand and change plus 6800 for paint and 7950 for a cage?
Over 100K for what???
They must be joking.
Send a chally body to Bickel for that cash.
It aint your fathers hemi and never will be.
The way things are going, no mddle class in 20 years, therefore extremely limited demand.
Todays economic circumstances are just the beginning.
The wealthy few gonna want to play with these cheap rides or that Lambo?
Ridiculous price, again mopar out to lunch.
HEY MOPAR, JUST GIVE US THE BODY IN WHITE PROGRAM.
Sorry, thats my take.
Over 100K for what???
They must be joking.
Send a chally body to Bickel for that cash.
It aint your fathers hemi and never will be.
The way things are going, no mddle class in 20 years, therefore extremely limited demand.
Todays economic circumstances are just the beginning.
The wealthy few gonna want to play with these cheap rides or that Lambo?
Ridiculous price, again mopar out to lunch.
HEY MOPAR, JUST GIVE US THE BODY IN WHITE PROGRAM.
Sorry, thats my take.
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 02:55 PM
"Maybe I'm stupid and poor but 85 grand and change plus 6800 for paint and 7950 for a cage?
Over 100K for what???"
You will have that much in a top of the line, cutting edge class car. That is the reality of it.
"The way things are going, no mddle class in 20 years, therefore extremely limited demand.
Todays economic circumstances are just the beginning."
I'll bet you they sell every one they build, real, real quick.
Over 100K for what???"
You will have that much in a top of the line, cutting edge class car. That is the reality of it.
"The way things are going, no mddle class in 20 years, therefore extremely limited demand.
Todays economic circumstances are just the beginning."
I'll bet you they sell every one they build, real, real quick.
Posted By: 340RICK
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 02:58 PM
I with you clutcher...........Body n white and a junkyard 6.1.....Thats HOT RODDIN
Posted By: theclutcher
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 03:46 PM
You will have that much in a top of the line, cutting edge class car. That is the reality of it.
I'll bet you they sell every one they build, real, real quick.
Highly doubt the cutting edge, top of line you speak of.
No doubt they sell every one as they only making whats ordered.
Will be interesting to see how many they make.
To each his own, not here tho.
I'll bet you they sell every one they build, real, real quick.
Highly doubt the cutting edge, top of line you speak of.
No doubt they sell every one as they only making whats ordered.
Will be interesting to see how many they make.
To each his own, not here tho.
Posted By: JERICOGTX
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 03:48 PM
Quote:
Maybe I'm stupid and poor but 85 grand and change plus 6800 for paint and 7950 for a cage?
Over 100K for what???
They must be joking.
Send a chally body to Bickel for that cash.
It aint your fathers hemi and never will be.
The way things are going, no mddle class in 20 years, therefore extremely limited demand.
Todays economic circumstances are just the beginning.
The wealthy few gonna want to play with these cheap rides or that Lambo?
Ridiculous price, again mopar out to lunch.
HEY MOPAR, JUST GIVE US THE BODY IN WHITE PROGRAM.
Sorry, thats my take.
Do you really think it was any differnt in '68??? How much was a LO23/BO29 car back then? You then had to take the car home pull the motor, and go through it, paint it, and buy wheels and tires, no differnt then today. In '68 you could walk into a dealer and pay a little less then $3K for a stripped down RoadRunner, and drive it off the lot. The HEMI race cars were almost double that... No different then today. Lets face it MOPAR isn't going to give these things away. This type of racing never has been a poor mans sport, never will be.
Jeff
Posted By: Locomotion
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 03:50 PM
Quote:
I with you clutcher...........Body n white and a junkyard 6.1.....Thats HOT RODDIN
You have to realize that right now Mopar is trying to get as much exposure as they can, which is Stock and Super Stock class racing at national and divisional events. They have to keep up with Ford and possibly Chevy in the future. But if these programs are successful enough and it helps translate to more domestic car sales through brand awareness, perhaps bodies-in-white will be made available later for other racing venues and street rodders. They still have to get out of this economic slump before before redirecting valuable time and resources to projects that may not give them the amount of attention the Drag Pak cars have. Pulling bodies-in-white would also seem to disrupt regular production to some extent.
As for cost, one can quickly have at least $100,000 invested in a competitive SS/AH Hemi Dart or Cuda built from scratch!
I'll just keep racing what I can afford.
Posted By: theclutcher
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 03:56 PM
Just my opinion.
Do you think the cars of today are worth 50K?
And then to double that?
Auto workers and general public taking it in chin with wage and benefit cuts.
What was the cost of those darts and cudas in 68 realtive to the average smucks income.
Compare that to now and add the devaluation of the dollar.
Anyone know this number?
Do you think the cars of today are worth 50K?
And then to double that?
Auto workers and general public taking it in chin with wage and benefit cuts.
What was the cost of those darts and cudas in 68 realtive to the average smucks income.
Compare that to now and add the devaluation of the dollar.
Anyone know this number?
Posted By: JERICOGTX
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 04:06 PM
Quote:
Just my opinion.
Do you think the cars of today are worth 50K?
And then to double that?
Personally, no I don't, and I have not bought a new vehicle in 12 years now, and probably never will again. Just my choice, as I no longer want any car payments, and am fine with driving a $1500 beater back and forth to work the last 2 years.
Also not everyone has taken it in the shorts the last few years. Some have been smart business wise, and probably made more money the last few years then before.
Posted By: Locomotion
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 04:07 PM
Quote:
Just my opinion.
Do you think the cars of today are worth 50K?
And then to double that?
Auto workers and general public taking it in chin with wage and benefit cuts.
What was the cost of those darts and cudas in 68 realtive to the average smucks income.
Compare that to now and add the devaluation of the dollar.
Anyone know this number?
Try this!
Calculator of dollar worth between years.
It appears that you have to spend about 6.5 times the money in 2010 to buy what you could get in 1968. If looking at a factory Hemi Cuda or Dart, you'll also have to factor in the labor costs to make the car safe, legal and competitive. So the 2010 Drag Pak cars will be a LOT more race ready than the '68 Hemi cars.
As for everyday cars. I also say they are overpriced. But that has a lot to do with government emission and safety regulations too.
Posted By: theclutcher
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 04:37 PM
Thanks for that.
No wonder were not getting anywhere.
Should be making well over 100 bucks an hour.
NOT...
Dont know many people making that either.
Excellent point on saftey and emissions cost.
No need to pass on those costs either in the race package.
Another question I have.
What would a fair price be for a body in white today?
No wonder were not getting anywhere.
Should be making well over 100 bucks an hour.
NOT...
Dont know many people making that either.
Excellent point on saftey and emissions cost.
No need to pass on those costs either in the race package.
Another question I have.
What would a fair price be for a body in white today?
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 05:34 PM
A pretty much turn key race car for 85K...yeah, that may sound high and those paint and cage number are laughable, you can get that done for a 1/4 of that........but, look at vehicles today. A loaded up Dually to pull that "race car" with is 65k and you see them going up and down the road everyday........Now which costs more...YOUR tow truck...or YOUR race car. Some answers may vary, but most everyone has more in their race car than their truck.
Monte
Monte
Posted By: theclutcher
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 05:42 PM
Agree there.
Those new dually's are as awsome as the price tag.
More than my house cost.
Stickin with my 74 D200. Does the same thing, just less flash and cost 10x less than new.
I guess I'm just a cheap son of a gun.
Would definately entertain a BODY IN WHITE tho.
Why dont they get it?
Those new dually's are as awsome as the price tag.
More than my house cost.
Stickin with my 74 D200. Does the same thing, just less flash and cost 10x less than new.
I guess I'm just a cheap son of a gun.
Would definately entertain a BODY IN WHITE tho.
Why dont they get it?
Posted By: Thackdaddy
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 06:13 PM
Will there ever be a sorta drag pack, low option production car produced?
Posted By: Locomotion
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 07:35 PM
Quote:
Will there ever be a sorta drag pack, low option production car produced?
SRT and Mopar 10 are probably as close as you can get and be street legal - besides doing your own mods. Government safety, emissions and insurance will keep the HP down and the weight up from the factory. Something like a low option Duster 340 or big block Road Runner would be nice, but not possible these days.
Posted By: HEMIFRED
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 07:41 PM
New 6.7 cummins Laramie dualie 58k
28' classic trailer loaded 20k
golf cart 2k
there's 80k and no tools
28' classic trailer loaded 20k
golf cart 2k
there's 80k and no tools
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 08:59 PM
"Just my opinion.
Do you think the cars of today are worth 50K?
And then to double that?
Auto workers and general public taking it in chin with wage and benefit cuts."
I get it...
You're making a political statement!!
As much as I wish it was....it isn't 1968 anymore.
Do you think the cars of today are worth 50K?
And then to double that?
Auto workers and general public taking it in chin with wage and benefit cuts."
I get it...
You're making a political statement!!
As much as I wish it was....it isn't 1968 anymore.
Posted By: mr_340
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 09:11 PM
Quote:
As much as I wish it was....it isn't 1968 anymore.
It depends on if you still have flashbacks? I was just listening to In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida and Voodoo Chile on Youtube. The 1960s never (completely) went away for me. I was only 11 years old in 1968. Old enough to remember it, but not old enough to have not remembered it.
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 09:19 PM
You are right, Jim....you know my mindset and what I do....I'm still living that time period as much as I can..but, reality is reality...
Just tired of being hassled by THE MAN!!!
Just tired of being hassled by THE MAN!!!
Posted By: theclutcher
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 09:39 PM
Ahhh
If only my dollar bought 6 times more... like in '68, and they were not trying to take back the devalued dollars I make today,
I might not think the drag pack is overpriced.
Agree, a much better time and economic outlook for country in '68
Political statement? No.
Hard facts? Absolutely.
If only my dollar bought 6 times more... like in '68, and they were not trying to take back the devalued dollars I make today,
I might not think the drag pack is overpriced.
Agree, a much better time and economic outlook for country in '68
Political statement? No.
Hard facts? Absolutely.
Posted By: julian2007
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 10:10 PM
I wish I sold trailers in your area, 20k for a loadad 28 ft classic WOW talk about getting bent over.
Posted By: tubtar
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/03/10 11:37 PM
Quote:
I wish I sold trailers in your area, 20k for a loadad 28 ft classic WOW talk about getting bent over.
Huh ???
New ?
Enclosed ?
I must be in the wrong area..........I've seen nice used pieces going for near that.
As far as the V-10 Chally ............me likey.
Pricey to be sure , but not out of line.
Now..........will they let one guy buy ten and race two like Ford did ?
I really thought that move sucked a wheel barrow full of ........well , you know.
There will certainly be a collector buzz following these.
If my pockets were deep enough , I would most certainly have one.
Then buy wrecked 2011 for the title and get plates and tabs for it.
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/04/10 12:00 AM
Quote:Good point(s).
Now which costs more...YOUR tow truck...or YOUR race car. Some answers may vary, but most everyone has more in their race car than their truck.
Monte
For 7 years I pulled my open trailer and race car with a $3000 used truck. I guess I got my money's worth. 2 years ago, I "upgraded" to a $11,000 used truck. That is my budget.
I have less in my race car, trailer, and tow vehicle COMBINDED than most guys at the track have in just their race car. Heck, some of their tow rigs/motor home/trailers are worth more than my house!
Posted By: julian2007
Re: 2011 Challenger Drag Pak - 10/04/10 01:31 PM
I just bought a NEW left over 2009 44 ft 7.0 high Haulmark w/racer package,8-d rings 30 amp service,12v package,16 in mag wheels,chrome package,two speed landing gear,for 12800.00 A friend bought a new Haulmark 7.6 high LOADED w/rubber coin floor,cabinets up and down,12v,110,v,chrome,16in wheels,edge package 28 ft for 13500.00 in 2008.If you are willing to pay that much I would love to be your trailer sales person.Before you hammer me on classic v Haulmark prices I have bought and sold them both.