Moparts
what the story on dragstrips
Posted By: dennismopar73
what the story on dragstrips - 09/28/10 08:15 PM
gateway in trouble
now sikesten mo closing
to go 1/4 mile racing guy has to
travel to chicago??
indy going 1/8 mile
whats up
Posted By: POS Dakota
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/28/10 08:43 PM
The rent.
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/28/10 08:47 PM
insurance
Posted By: ProStDodge
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/28/10 08:51 PM
Thats an easy one.
Weekly racing doesn't bring in spectators. So no real income from seats, parking, or concessions.
Racers won't pay huge entry fees weekly, but don't want to race for small purses.
Insurance is high due to possible liability. And the insurance requires on property emergency services which are not free.
Dragstrips require lots of space, which in turn converts to lots of property taxes.
So unless we can find away to draw in spectators to support the track costs, they come out of the racers pockets.
Heck even po-dunk little roundy-round dirt tracks pay the racers their entry fee and more for just going a few heats because of the money generated by the spectators.
More and more track owners have found its more profitable to have a fun nite, which requires no pay-outs, draws more spectators, and requires minimal track prep, than to run an actual race.
Now the REAL QUESTION is how do we fix the problem without using our own pocket books???
Posted By: RodStRace
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/28/10 08:52 PM
mickey Ds sells meals for 5 bucks. They sell them all day long every day and operate out of 1/8 acre.
A dragstrip sells a full day pass for 10-20 bucks. A LOT fewer customers. It only has 2 or three days of operation a week, and need 30-40 acres at least.
How's that for a start?
Posted By: Deepockets
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/28/10 10:56 PM
i run at irwindale in california, and they run a test & tune every thursday. we the racers build own bracket race called king of the hill. we take 16 cars maximun and each driver kicks in $20.00 dollars. with a purse of $320.00 to the winner. usually the same group of drivers each week and we like to split the winnings in the final. good affordable racing.
Posted By: ProStDodge
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/28/10 11:22 PM
Quote:
i run at irwindale in california, and they run a test & tune every thursday. we the racers build own bracket race called king of the hill. we take 16 cars maximun and each driver kicks in $20.00 dollars. with a purse of $320.00 to the winner. usually the same group of drivers each week and we like to split the winnings in the final. good affordable racing.
OK - so your race doesn't cost the track anything in pay out, but its also doesn't make them any money. So where is the incentive for them to keep the track open? 16 cars at test-n-tune entry price - that ain't covering the power bill.
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/28/10 11:42 PM
"indy going 1/8 mile"
Where did you hear that?
Posted By: Cudajon
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 12:02 AM
Back in the old days a track could schedule Garlits, Prudhoome, Sox and Martin, Grumpy Jenkins, etc for grudge races between the few national events. Dunn used to come around with his buds and have funny car nights. Most of these racers amde their living doing this. Now there are so many national events the big names never come around to the smaller tracks. Its really a shame because I met many of the old timers at tracks in texas and oklahoma. Without these special races most of the small tracks are limited to one or two division events each year to make any bucks. There needs to be a new formula thought up to bring the spectators out. SUNDAY! SUNDAY! SUNDAY! 200 mile per hour dragsters at double eagle dragstrip. Can Garlits beat Muldowney in two out of three? SUNDAY! SUNDAY! SUNDAY! Those were the days.
Posted By: ProStDodge
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 12:10 AM
Quote:
"indy going 1/8 mile"
Where did you hear that?
The weekly bracket races have been 1/8 mile at Indy for a few years. Since the Summit E.T. Finals are run on the 1/8 mile, they decided to do the weekly points races in 1/8 mile.
Works particularly well for the early spring and late fall races when the track is cold and marginal, and the winds come around the bleachers just past the 1/8 mile mark.
Track rentals, fun nights, and special events area still 1/4 mile
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 12:15 AM
The "pros" can't do that anymore for two reasons...one, it costs way more to run a fuel car for a few laps, than most tracks can afford and two, that is considered a "test session" by NHRA and no team will waste that for a booked in show. Sure, you could book lesser known drivers, or non-touring, but the fans likely won't come for that, plus it is really a roll of the dice, whether some of these cars will get down the track, or even be able to pull in the water more than once.....These days, you are much more likely to draw fans with a couple Pro-Mods, or some type Outlaw Street car stuff......As far as Pro-Stockers, it still costs a lot to get them and frankly, todays cars just don't have the pizazz of Sox, Da Grump, Dyno Don and others. Doubt a Pro-Stock show would draw you much, except a few die hard fans.
Monte
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 12:31 AM
Another thing.......most racers, both bracket and heads-up racers, have gotten spoiled to the big money races, that seemed to be everywhere a few years ago. Now, they say they "can't afford to go for that money" and won't show up for ordinary purses. Lets face it, not many make ANY money racing and the chances of most winning are slim, but still, everyone bases the option of going, on what it pays to win. Even if they never cashed a winners check in their life, they still won't race for a small purse. Makes no sense to me. Spend thousands building a car, only to let it sit, because the race does not pay enough.
Pretty soon, when all the tracks are closed, we will see what they do with those cars.
About the only way small tracks get by these days, is have one or two killer events, that pay for the entire year of operation, like the "Fat Tuesday" race at Hub City Dragway, or some type "grudge" or "midnight madness" event. They pay a small fee to get in, another fee to get on the track and there are no purses. The track gets the gate and the concessions. Around here, every track does it and it is packed with kids, T&T heroes and the occassional "hitter" trying a few things.
Monte
Posted By: goody340g
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 12:46 AM
Quote:
i run at irwindale in california, and they run a test & tune every thursday. we the racers build own bracket race called king of the hill. we take 16 cars maximun and each driver kicks in $20.00 dollars. with a purse of $320.00 to the winner. usually the same group of drivers each week and we like to split the winnings in the final. good affordable racing.
that's not a lot of $ to be splitting
Posted By: moparbrown14
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 01:16 AM
bracket racing can be very boring. Try to explain bracket racing to your neighbor. Try to explain the delay box. Why does that car sound so bad when the tree comes down. Look at the pits, there isnt alot of kids going to the races.
Posted By: HEMIFRED
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 01:30 AM
Quote:
, todays cars just don't have the pizazz of Sox, Da Grump, Dyno Don and others. Doubt a Pro-Stock show would draw you much, except a few die hard fans
It's hard to believe but back in the day those big names mentioned above would get as much as 2500.00 per match race. Even the lesser teams got 1000 or more. They would race as many as 4 or 5 nights per week. Man that's like 20 grand a race in today's money.
Posted By: moparbrown14
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 01:36 AM
they didnt have 22 national events and big sponsors. they had to match race to eat lol
Posted By: moparacer
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 01:39 AM
Quote:
bracket racing can be very boring. Try to explain bracket racing to your neighbor.
Head up racing cat be equally hard to explain to a noob.
"Hey, how come your mopar is 3 seconds slower then that Chevy over there?"
Well, I dont have twin turbos, 4 stages of NOS and a 815 cid sonnys engine in the car.....
"Oh" lol.
Posted By: CHAPPER
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 01:44 AM
I don't know what it takes to run a drag strip or a roundy-round dirt track. I do know, that the local dirt tracks have LOTS of spectators due to the fact they are friends, relatives, associates, etc. of the people racing. Maybe we need to develope a bigger 'fan base' with our cars. Also, another thing that keeps the racers alive in dirt track series racing, is the pay to 'make the show'. If you qualify, run well enough in your 'heat' race to get into the 'final' event, you recieve a pay-out just to start, no matter where you finish. Maybe something in this line could be established for drag racing. We used to run a 'Super 32' class around here. The fastest 32 cars in time trials ran in an elimination bracket by themselves. That way, you knew how many runs/rounds you had to go to get money. Maybe a small pay-out for all 32 that made it in, and another bracket for those that didn't. I realize we still need spectators in the stands. We all should start encouraging people to come watch us race. Talk to tracks to do more advertising and give 'family' discounts to the new fans. Just some thoughts for trying to save our sport and our tracks.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 01:49 AM
I have a lot of ideas that tracks could use to put money in there pockets and save the racers money.
First one: I would put safety rules in place that make sense. They would be more in line with what the circle guys use. Not the SFI BS that NHRA uses. I would go thru the rule book and places that could save the racers money and not compromise safety would get changed.
Seat belts Changed
If the part isn't modified, no expiration date. This would apply to such items as tranny shields and cases. Changed
Let the racer know that we are trying to reduce the cost of racing.
I recently sat out for five years. It took almost a thousand dollars to get the van ready to make another pass. Some of the things were almost perfect that had to be thrown away like my helmet and belts. It will not happen again.
Posted By: dakotahotrodder
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 02:04 AM
We have been lucky in South Dakota. Our car count has remained steady or increased in some classes. We only run on Saturday nights and Sundays here, but not every weekend. Our junior dragster program has exploded in the last couple years. About 3-4 years ago there were maybe 1/2 dozen juniors at our track, now we have about 2 dozen! Say what you want about hating those things, but these kids are the ones that will be kicking our butts in the years to come.
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 02:07 AM
BRACKET RACING....
Posted By: Mr. T
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 02:12 AM
TNT usually brings out a larger crowd than racing. As popular as Mustangs, Camaros and TransAm cars are, I think that the tracks should have a bracket class strictly for the stick shift cars.
One thing is for sure, if we don't get the younger people interested, this sport will die.
Posted By: skep419
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 02:15 AM
I got a book for Christmas last year called muscle car confidential. My favorite article was on the Connecting highway in the Bronx. They would street race while spectators would watch from the bridges above. It would be cool to have seats above the track.
Posted By: Eric
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 02:46 AM
Ok...I wish I could say it was my idea...but here it go's. Dunn Tire in Lancaster NY has a deal one night a week that local radio "shock jocks" host...They have a burnout contest...and it costs $5 to make a pass down the track...thats for each pass..IE 6 passes costs you $30. The admission is free and half the time they run out of beer and food.....THEY MAKE MORE MONEY THAN THE REGULAR RACE NIGHTS>>>>>BY A BUNCH......I would suggest that to every track....brings new people to the sport too.
Posted By: Eric
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 02:52 AM
Posted By: Blucuda413
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 02:56 AM
It's absolutely amazing to me that so few track managers (at least in this part of the country) do anything special to bring in the spectators.
They know it's required to keep the pockets full but so few really put forth any effort. And as everyone knows watching bracket racing is about as exciting as watching grass grow.
There are a few tracks who have gone to exceptional lengths to bring in the shows, pro mods, fuel altereds, etc, etc, etc. Some of the racers have even passed these tracks by to go to a track where there's more time for the bracket guys. IF THE TRACK CAN'T MAKE MONEY IT WILL CLOSE!!!!
I firmly believe this problem is a direct result of the managers not doing what's required to fill the stands. In some places there's not enough bracket racers to make it.
Posted By: 69B3GT
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 08:29 AM
Quote:
Quote:
i run at irwindale in california, and they run a test & tune every thursday. we the racers build own bracket race called king of the hill. we take 16 cars maximun and each driver kicks in $20.00 dollars. with a purse of $320.00 to the winner. usually the same group of drivers each week and we like to split the winnings in the final. good affordable racing.
OK - so your race doesn't cost the track anything in pay out, but its also doesn't make them any money. So where is the incentive for them to keep the track open? 16 cars at test-n-tune entry price - that ain't covering the power bill.
Most thursdays id say theres around 100 cars @ $20 a car and $10 a person, always a big crowd plus food/drink sales.
Posted By: cudaboy
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 04:49 PM
My local track, Milan, hit a goldmine in the last few years. They have a monthly NO E.T race. $40 to race, $15 for spectators, and no purse. The racers set up their own races for however much $$ they want, and the clocks are turned off. They will use the tree, a flagman, whatever the racers want. I have been to the last two, there were easily 200 cars and 2000 people there and the concession stands were making a killing.
Dennis
Posted By: Slingshot383
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 05:10 PM
In eastern Missouri there is a new track being built. Mid America Raceways Too, located in Eolia, MO. 30 miles north of I-70 on Hwy. 61. Head to Wentzville on I-70 and go north. Track is supposed to open in June 2011.
Posted By: Steve1118
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 06:07 PM
Monte, your points are well taken, and true. The professional climate today does not allow for match racing, as you and I remember it. The cost is too high, and with all the national events the schedule is too full. I suppose it's a natural progression....
That being said, I do think that the lack of big name match racing has hurt these local tracks badly. The biggest pure spectator crowds that I can rembember at old Keystone Raceway Park (now PRP), Beaver Springs, and the rest were on nights where there was a Sox-Jenkins match, A Nicholson-Stiles, or things like that. I have pictures of those evenings here when the place was absolutely packed with spectators, who paid an extra ten bucks admission.
Those guys bought the big names to the people...to those who read about them but were not in a position to drive to Indianapolis or St. Louis. Since those days, nothing has come to fill the void.
I'm not sure what the answer is. Here in the east, the Nostalgia races draw big crowds and are money makers, and the tracks are fighting over them, and that's the one bright spot that I see. The bracket guys are self supporting, but will not draw a crowd by themselves....they can probably pay the light bill, but will not make a living for the operator. The problem with some of the booked n circuits is that folks are usually disappointed in the overall quality of cars...there will be one or two good ones, and a bunch of leakers. A couple of those and the paying public will not come.
I think, if I was promoting, that the key would be to have something for everyone. Maybe a booked in circuit once a year, special events for whatever niche' segment is out there. I am one of the few who believe that the faster bracket classes can draw a crowd, if marketed right. However, the electronics and the other stuff that make them cookie cutter cars would have to go, so that is not realistic, either. One or two of the IHRA style "Night of Fire" would probably work.
If there was a way somehow to get a Del Worsham or a Phil Burkhart, An Allen Johnson or a Greg Anderson to the local tracks that would be the answer. But, that isn't going to happen. On top it off, we do not participate in a politically correct sport, and that is another thing working against them.
It's a real dilemma. As much as I love this sport, I am not sure I would invest in a drag strip right now.
Posted By: Boosted
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 06:48 PM
Quote:
My local track, Milan, hit a goldmine in the last few years. They have a monthly NO E.T race. $40 to race, $15 for spectators, and no purse. The racers set up their own races for however much $$ they want, and the clocks are turned off. They will use the tree, a flagman, whatever the racers want. I have been to the last two, there were easily 200 cars and 2000 people there and the concession stands were making a killing.
Dennis
That is what my local track needs to do.. But then you will need extra security...
Posted By: moparbrown14
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 07:01 PM
americans just dont have the love of automobiles that it did have. remember the days when you spent all day sunday under a shade tree waxing you cars. now it is a way to get back and forth and when it goes bad ill get another. that is it.where will drag racing be in the next 25 years. its scary
Posted By: 1badx
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/29/10 07:12 PM
Quote:
My local track, Milan, hit a goldmine in the last few years. They have a monthly NO E.T race. $40 to race, $15 for spectators, and no purse. The racers set up their own races for however much $$ they want, and the clocks are turned off. They will use the tree, a flagman, whatever the racers want. I have been to the last two, there were easily 200 cars and 2000 people there and the concession stands were making a killing.Dennis
I believe that this is one strategy that the track owners should consider. With the right amount of low cost advertising (intenet forums, auto part stores, machine shops, auto repair shops, emailing lists etc.) This could be profitable. In our area there is a group called "Altered Gas" who puts on an event called "The Flashlight Drags". Depending on the weather, location and advertising these events have been wildly successful. They format is similar to the program listed above except they are held on airport runways (down to one now) and a straightaway in a local road course.
In these cases there is no track prep, no timing equipment(just a lane win light), a girl starting the cars with a deer spotting light, plenty of grudge racing, lots of young folks racing their imports and domestics and a final "runoff" to choose the fastest domestic and the fastest import.
These events are packed and a blast. With a little advertising on the local radio stations and maybe a presence on Facebook, Twitter etc. with pictures of the winners and some recognition for the top participants I think the tracks could at least make some additional $ for organizing/hosting these events.
Street racing is where my interest(any many others) in this sport started. This type of event provides a format for the tradition to continue safely.
Throw in a special guest (ie. popular race/show car, band/musician, stunt show etc.) if the events are profitable/popular.
Open the concession stand and start making $.
Posted By: Dago Red
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/30/10 10:13 AM
One of our local tracks did a $10 a carload night with Fuel Altereds, Pro Mods and other specialty race cars. They encouraged people to bring their grill and make a party out of it. So many cars showed up they had to park them on the access road leading to the track. I went to a baseball game today and it cost me and the wife $150. Try this: my son-in-law went to an NFL game and spent over a grand. Just give the folks a little bang for the buck. We are all watching our nickels.
A night/afternoon at the drag strip can be a lot of fun. Any track owners ever thought of letting the average Joe in on this little secret?
Posted By: 440dart
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/30/10 01:02 PM
One of the best days I had at a dragstrip in a long time was Milan, when the Dragweek cars came through town. Free admission, some very interesting cars to look at, and some very fast 1/4 mile runs. I even got to see Monte. If they would have done any kind of advertising, I beleive there would have been a lot more spectators, there was still quite a few for a rainy thursday morning. The drivers were all great, very willing to talk, ansewer questions, and just in general shoot the bull. I hope it comes back to Milan next year I'll be there for sure
Posted By: dennismopar73
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 09/30/10 09:49 PM
thank you guys for these responces
it sounds as if we all have work to do to bring out the spectators and get our track managers
involved better
its our field of dreams to either win or lose
this is a great example of ideas and explanation of how our sport is changing
some good some needs great improvement
Posted By: J_GAMALA
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 10/01/10 06:04 AM
Posted By: 05dakota
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 10/01/10 05:50 PM
Went to Nostagia day at Lebanon Valley last sunday. Major decline in spectators and race cars.
a few years ago the racing last past dark. all down my 5:15 this year.
Posted By: Coronet-R/T-Rag
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 10/02/10 02:17 AM
I still remember the first dragstrip I raced at. It was the early 80's and after the race was over they had beer, a band and a wet t-shirt contest. I thought I had died and gone to heaven.
Posted By: Leigh
Re: what the story on dragstrips - 10/02/10 05:49 AM
Many more things competing for the entertainment dollar now a days.
