What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA???????????

Posted By: camastomcat

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 08/31/10 06:25 PM

I eagerly await my weekly Dragster. I agree that it is better than ever. As for the NHRA bashers. My advice to you guys is to run somewhere else. If the NHRA sucks then get with the IHRA or some other junior league organization. You can't please all of the people all of the time. The NHRA does it's best to please as many as possible. And, you can be sure of this, without the NHRA drag racing as we know it would be greatly inferior.

Well, because of the NHRA the IHRA is my only choice in Salt Lake City. And I'm not saying our local track didn't help that situation to happen, but the NHRA did nothing to stop it. And I do like the Dragster and read it every week. But having raced with the IHRA the last couple of years, as well as with NHRA, IHRA seems to be much more Bracket and Sportsman friendly. And there is a lot wrong with the crap they have on the Pro racing coverage. It's obviously turning people off to our sport. When comments are made like "we have 2 winners, let them race in the finals" as was said in Seattle to the Pro Stock guys, it can be considered nothing more than pure arogance. Oh....and I'll race where the hell I want! Things at NHRA could and should be better!

Posted By: Kyle Reasbeck

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 12:06 AM

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As for the NHRA bashers. My advice to you guys is to run somewhere else.

Excellent business advice. This attitude sure shows how this venue will thrive and attract more cars and people. Unfortunately, this is also "seems" to be the view point of NHRA. Sure there are always some you just cannot please, but the car counts don't lie. They are racing somewhere else.

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And, you can be sure of this, without the NHRA drag racing as we know it would be greatly inferior.

And the God complex. You are right, it probably would be inferior. But people dont go racing to make sure the NHRA stays afloat as their motivation.

And Kevin, I also think National Dragster is better then ever, expecially this past issue

Posted By: SuperStockWagon

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 01:02 AM

Quote:

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The short answer on the 2011 schedule is that the Las Vegas event could not follow Pomona due to the NASCAR event in Las Vegas. No question that going from Pomona to Gainesville to Las Vegas is not convienient, but there were virtually no other options.

While there are never any guarantees in regards to weather, it can get pretty cold (and wet) in Las Vegas in February.

While there may be some challenges geographically, next year's scheule appears much more "user friendly" than the 2010 version since we no longer have seven races in eight weeks during the summer and there are no more "four in a row" swings.

Also, other than possibly Don Schumacher, no one has more vehicles on the road than NHRA. When you count the Safety Safari, Tech, Registration and other support vehicles.

As for National Dragster, we're always seeking CONSTRUCTIVE input on how to make it better. We understand that people no longer turn to print publications to find out who won the race, so we have tried to improve in other areas.

In the last two years, we have gone to an all color format and includes numerous features that can't be found elsewhere.

Kevin McKenna
National Dragster

I eagerly await my weekly Dragster. I agree that it is better than ever. As for the NHRA bashers. My advice to you guys is to run somewhere else. If the NHRA sucks then get with the IHRA or some other junior league organization. You can't please all of the people all of the time. The NHRA does it's best to please as many as possible. And, you can be sure of this, without the NHRA drag racing as we know it would be greatly inferior.

Well said BobR! Kevin,I for one look foward to my ND every week..and of course as a Stock/Superstock racer wish there was always more class racer features and coverage!

Posted By: BobR

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 01:47 AM

"And the God complex. You are right, it probably would be inferior. But people dont go racing to make sure the NHRA stays afloat as their motivation."

No but because of the NHRA there are modern, safe tracks. We don't run any NHRA exclusive events with our Outlaw car but we race at their tracks which are almost always higher quality, safer, better prepped than the non-NHRA sanctioned crap around. And we run by their chassis and other rules which means safer cars.

Posted By: Rhinodart

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 02:17 AM

I really wish I could answer that question.

I work for Mr. Norms Garage and we have been TRYING for the last two years to GIVE the NHRA money so we can display our wares at a couple of events but we cannot even get ONE return phone call!

The GOD COMPLEX comment is spot on as far as I am concerned. I guess they believe they are the only game in town and if they decide they think it may be in thier best interest one day to communicate with us I guess we will be waiting with baited breath.

At least the guys at the NHRA Museum get it and want us at thier events, I just wish the NHRA brass would listen to the guys who got them there...

Signed FRUSTRATED AS HE11!

Posted By: NDragster

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 03:59 AM

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. A lot of interesting stuff here.

In random order;

I agree that Dan Fletcher's colums are some of the best stuff we run. The whole idea of him writing about his adventures came from a conversation we had many years ago when he was bemoaning his luck. I told him, you should write all this down. It would make a great story.
That was 1996 and who knew he'd still be at it.

Evan Smith is also a big asset to ND. His perspective is unique because he's not only a top knotch journalist, but also a die-hard sportsman racer (even if it's a Ford)

We also enjoy the Featured Flyers. It's nice to put the spotlight on some racers who might not otherwise get noticed. Sure enough, every one of them has an interesting story to tell. Incidently, we decided to feature one car per race this year so that we could go into more detail and use more photos. personally, I like the new format but I suppose it's possible that we could make some adjustments in the future.

Finally, while I enjoy all facets of working at ND, I hope it's obvious that my favorites are the sportsman racers. There was a time when I contemplated working in the Tech Department but decided to stick with ND. The major difference? When I pick up the phone, I (usually) get to talk with happy racers (ie national event winners).

Posted By: Sixpak

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 04:29 AM

It's obvious to me that the powers that be in Pomona don't have any original ideas for improving the current format. Witness the current FUBAR state of the race to 'whatever' they are calling it, with a final elimination points chase like basketball. If I wanted to watch basketball I would, but I don't. And the tired attempts to copy whatever NASCAR is doing. Witness the rise, and sudden demise, of Pro Stock Truck.

Instead, they have consolidated their 'big show' categories and have actively encouraged multi car teams, while in one fell swoop have killed the Nitro match race circuit and made their national event venues effectively the only place where we can see the likes of current top Nitro cars, by limiting test sessions.

And while it's sad that Scott Kalitta died, one racer's death should not have led to the shortening of the race track to 1000'. Instead, the engine combinations should have been changed to both reduce the cost and reduce the horsepower to slow the cars down, thereby attracting more potential cars in the field.

NHRA has become yet another faceless corporation playing to the lowest common denominator, in an attempt to attract Joe Lunchpail to tune in and watch the freak show.

And I really don't care WHAT they've done lately for the sport - any kudos I could heap on them were accomplished years ago. Now, they are just protecting their product and their cashflow.

So yeah, I will go somewhere else. Maybe once in a blue moon to see a points race, but I won't watch it on the tube nor spend money on National Events tickets.

Posted By: BobR

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 02:41 PM

"And while it's sad that Scott Kalitta died, one racer's death should not have led to the shortening of the race track to 1000'. Instead, the engine combinations should have been changed to both reduce the cost and reduce the horsepower to slow the cars down, thereby attracting more potential cars in the field."

Apparently not that sad. Hey, it's only one death. What's that in comparison to your happiness? The insurace company wanted immediate action or they were going to drop coverage. There would have been NO RACING. It isn't quite as easy to detune fuel cars as you seem to think. What is your expertise in this arena BTW? You do know that there is a consortium of fuel racers and product suppliers that are working on this as we speak? Do you even race? What? My guess is that you are just another monday morning quarterback.

Posted By: Steve1118

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 03:12 PM

Bob, I can't agree. I would have much rather seen them do what they should have done....slow 'em down. All they've done by going to 1000 foot is to postpone what they are going to have to do at some time anyway.

You can do it without costing anyone a lot of money....smaller blowers, limit the fuel pump size, take some amps out of the mags, go to single mags instead of doubles....all kinds of ways. You never know....making it easier might just bring some new blood into the fuel ranks. Check out the new HOT ROD with an indepth piece with Don Prudhomme....he says the same thing. And, HE does know fuel racing.

They can't even fill the fields anymore, and the same two or three guys own everything that shows up. What was once a great sport is now a PR marketed circus act....complete with vaudeville acts and basketball drill teams.

It is not the sport that I fell in love with when I first went to Indy in 1967. I realize it would not stay the same, but the yuppie "we wanna be like NASCAR" guys who run the show from Glendora have totally ruined it.

Regardless of how they market Indy, it has been relegated to just another stop on the tour, one of the other twenty some odd traveling circus shows. Gone are the days when a Gary Burgin or Marvin Graham could come out of nowhere and make themselves a household name over Labor Day weekend. The only attraction it has for me is the Hemi Challenge, that IS Indy to me. The rest of it is just another circus show.

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 03:15 PM

Quote:

Bob, I can't agree. I would have much rather seen them do what they should have done....slow 'em down. All they've done by going to 1000 foot is to postpone what they are going to have to do at some time anyway.

You can do it without costing anyone a lot of money....smaller blowers, limit the fuel pump size, take some amps out of the mags, go to single mags instead of doubles....all kinds of ways. You never know....making it easier might just bring some new blood into the fuel ranks.

They can't even fill the fields anymore, and the same two or three guys own everything that shows up. What was once a great sport is now a PR marketed circus act....complete with vaudeville acts and basketball drill teams.

It is not the sport that I fell in love with when I first went to Indy in 1967. I realize it would not stay the same, but the yuppie "we wanna be like NASCAR" guys who run the show from Glendora have totally ruined it.

Regardless of how they market Indy, it has been relegated to just another stop on the tour, one of the other twenty some odd traveling circus shows. Gone are the days when a Gary Burgin or Marvin Graham could come out of nowhere and make themselves a household name over Labor Day weekend. The only attraction it has for me is the Hemi Challenge, that IS Indy to me. The rest of it is just another circus show.

I say put them on a 10.5 tire

Posted By: camastomcat

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 04:29 PM

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Bob, I can't agree. I would have much rather seen them do what they should have done....slow 'em down. All they've done by going to 1000 foot is to postpone what they are going to have to do at some time anyway.

You can do it without costing anyone a lot of money....smaller blowers, limit the fuel pump size, take some amps out of the mags, go to single mags instead of doubles....all kinds of ways. You never know....making it easier might just bring some new blood into the fuel ranks. Check out the new HOT ROD with an indepth piece with Don Prudhomme....he says the same thing. And, HE does know fuel racing.

They can't even fill the fields anymore, and the same two or three guys own everything that shows up. What was once a great sport is now a PR marketed circus act....complete with vaudeville acts and basketball drill teams.

It is not the sport that I fell in love with when I first went to Indy in 1967. I realize it would not stay the same, but the yuppie "we wanna be like NASCAR" guys who run the show from Glendora have totally ruined it.

Regardless of how they market Indy, it has been relegated to just another stop on the tour, one of the other twenty some odd traveling circus shows. Gone are the days when a Gary Burgin or Marvin Graham could come out of nowhere and make themselves a household name over Labor Day weekend. The only attraction it has for me is the Hemi Challenge, that IS Indy to me. The rest of it is just another circus show.

Yeah, what he said. Oh....and this is the "unlawfuls race only" section, so I would guess most of the people here race. There might even be a fuel guy or 2, but many racers in all classes. And the NHRA took the line of least resistance with the 1000ft thing. There are only 2 ways to a permanent fix, 1. lengthen the tracks in the shutdown area, 2. slow them down. These guys are already running 313mph at 1000 ft, just like the crew chiefs said they would. JMO

Attached picture 6171477-19-188-Tom-Debartolo.jpg

Attached picture 6171477-19-188-Tom-Debartolo.jpg

Posted By: BobR

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 06:12 PM

Quote:

Bob, I can't agree. I would have much rather seen them do what they should have done....slow 'em down. All they've done by going to 1000 foot is to postpone what they are going to have to do at some time anyway.

You can do it without costing anyone a lot of money....smaller blowers, limit the fuel pump size, take some amps out of the mags, go to single mags instead of doubles....all kinds of ways. You never know....making it easier might just bring some new blood into the fuel ranks. Check out the new HOT ROD with an indepth piece with Don Prudhomme....he says the same thing. And, HE does know fuel racing.

They can't even fill the fields anymore, and the same two or three guys own everything that shows up. What was once a great sport is now a PR marketed circus act....complete with vaudeville acts and basketball drill teams.

It is not the sport that I fell in love with when I first went to Indy in 1967. I realize it would not stay the same, but the yuppie "we wanna be like NASCAR" guys who run the show from Glendora have totally ruined it.

Regardless of how they market Indy, it has been relegated to just another stop on the tour, one of the other twenty some odd traveling circus shows. Gone are the days when a Gary Burgin or Marvin Graham could come out of nowhere and make themselves a household name over Labor Day weekend. The only attraction it has for me is the Hemi Challenge, that IS Indy to me. The rest of it is just another circus show.

Every one of those "fixes" has a down side. There are 4 nitro drivers testing various methods(John Force is one of them)and there hasn't yet been determined a best one. Personally, as a fan, I would rather see a full power 1000' nitro run than a cut back 1/4 miler. What you said about cost may be true-or not. Highly funded teams always figure out an edge that the others have to ante-up for or be an also ran. Don Garlits had some interesting ideas on leveling the playing field. However, then you get NASCAR and cookie cutter vehicles. Is that what fans want?

Posted By: BobR

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 06:13 PM

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Quote:

Bob, I can't agree. I would have much rather seen them do what they should have done....slow 'em down. All they've done by going to 1000 foot is to postpone what they are going to have to do at some time anyway.

You can do it without costing anyone a lot of money....smaller blowers, limit the fuel pump size, take some amps out of the mags, go to single mags instead of doubles....all kinds of ways. You never know....making it easier might just bring some new blood into the fuel ranks.

They can't even fill the fields anymore, and the same two or three guys own everything that shows up. What was once a great sport is now a PR marketed circus act....complete with vaudeville acts and basketball drill teams.

It is not the sport that I fell in love with when I first went to Indy in 1967. I realize it would not stay the same, but the yuppie "we wanna be like NASCAR" guys who run the show from Glendora have totally ruined it.

Regardless of how they market Indy, it has been relegated to just another stop on the tour, one of the other twenty some odd traveling circus shows. Gone are the days when a Gary Burgin or Marvin Graham could come out of nowhere and make themselves a household name over Labor Day weekend. The only attraction it has for me is the Hemi Challenge, that IS Indy to me. The rest of it is just another circus show.

I say put them on a 10.5 tire

Hey, we do it.

Posted By: BobR

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 06:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Bob, I can't agree. I would have much rather seen them do what they should have done....slow 'em down. All they've done by going to 1000 foot is to postpone what they are going to have to do at some time anyway.

You can do it without costing anyone a lot of money....smaller blowers, limit the fuel pump size, take some amps out of the mags, go to single mags instead of doubles....all kinds of ways. You never know....making it easier might just bring some new blood into the fuel ranks. Check out the new HOT ROD with an indepth piece with Don Prudhomme....he says the same thing. And, HE does know fuel racing.

They can't even fill the fields anymore, and the same two or three guys own everything that shows up. What was once a great sport is now a PR marketed circus act....complete with vaudeville acts and basketball drill teams.

It is not the sport that I fell in love with when I first went to Indy in 1967. I realize it would not stay the same, but the yuppie "we wanna be like NASCAR" guys who run the show from Glendora have totally ruined it.

Regardless of how they market Indy, it has been relegated to just another stop on the tour, one of the other twenty some odd traveling circus shows. Gone are the days when a Gary Burgin or Marvin Graham could come out of nowhere and make themselves a household name over Labor Day weekend. The only attraction it has for me is the Hemi Challenge, that IS Indy to me. The rest of it is just another circus show.

Yeah, what he said. Oh....and this is the "unlawfuls race only" section, so I would guess most of the people here race. There might even be a fuel guy or 2, but many racers in all classes. And the NHRA took the line of least resistance with the 1000ft thing. There are only 2 ways to a permanent fix, 1. lengthen the tracks in the shutdown area, 2. slow them down. These guys are already running 313mph at 1000 ft, just like the crew chiefs said they would. JMO

Some are running 320. There is still 320 feet more shutdown area and they were getting real close to 340 when they went to 1000'. As I stated, the insurance company wanted immediate action-hence the 1000'. The NHRA has since found that the majority of fueler fans sit as close to the starting line as possible and don't seem to care so...it's still 1000' at full power. There will eventually be a change IMO.

Posted By: Steve1118

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 07:03 PM

As far as fuel racing goes...you have "cookie cutter" race cars now. There isn't a dime's worth of difference in them, except for the tune-up. Even the funny cars do not look like Detroit offerings anymore, they look like.....like....I don't know what they look like.

Here is what NHRA is missing. For every fuel racer, or even fuel fan, there is a hundred sportsman racers. Add local bracket racers, and it is probably 250-1. We are the guys who buy the Comp Cams, the Holley carbs, the tires, the converters and everything else NHRA relies on for support. I don't think anyone other than the fuel guys want to race 1000 feet, or are interested in "hospitality areas". We just want to do what a lot of us have been doing for a long, long, time.

Yet, all NHRA cares about is the John Force's and DSR's. That's OK, but they've thrown everyone else under the bus to cater to those guys. You say...."Well, they've got to 'grow' the sport". They've done a terrific job, eh? The TV coverage is on at what...2AM?? They've 'grown' the sport so well that instead of 54 T/F cars like entered Indy in 1979, they are lucky to get sixteen. Some "growth".

I've been involved in this deal since 1964. I attended every Indy from 1967 to 1992, and just did not like what I saw it becoming. I went to Maple Grove a year ago, and was ready to leave once I saw my Stocker and SS buddies run. There is absolutely no connection between the fuel guys and the rest of the sport.

Slow 'em down. You'll get more cars. Did you happen to notice that there were 34 Top Fuelers at Bakersfield March Meet this year? That should
tell them something.

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 08:16 PM

Although we enjoy racing both NHRA and IHRA we have to agree with Steve that the NHRA events themselves have lost touch with the everyday racers and cater to the pro classes.Like Steve we have been envolve for many years and watched the excitment of all the class racing and bracket racing deminish with all the emphasis on the T/F and Pro catagories.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 08:54 PM

News flash.....of course they cater to the pros, because that is the only thing that puts butts in the seats and it has always been that way. You cater to the pros, to draw fans, to make money, so that the sportsman racers, even have a place to race. To those that relish the "old days"...I was there in those days and same as today, the stands were a ghost town when the non pros were running. Nothing was any different then. I remember having to be in the lanes at 8am on a Thurs for class elims, same as now. The sport, has moved with the technology, same as the cars have.

Sure, you had some less than the most well known guys win back then, but most of the wins came from guys like Prudhomme, McCulloch, Glidden, Sheppard and others. Money and backing ruled then and it still does, just on a much larger scale.......Correct me if I am wrong, but did Bob Bode not just win a national event. Thats a very low buck team, as far as teams go today.

As far as some nostalgia race having 34 cars, what does that mean....thats like comparing apples to shoes, means nothing. There have been some short fields this year, but bracket turnouts are down as well, so what does that mean. It means the economy sucks, for the locas as well as the multi-million dollar teams, thats all.

Yeah, lets make it like the old days and let enginuity, imagination and MONEY sort it out. Dixon and others like him will totally dominate, even more than they do now. You can't beat money, never have, never will.

The more things change, the more they stay the same, as far as I'm concerned.

I am older than most think and like I said, was there during what some consider the "glory years".....can't say I miss it one bit, as compared to what we have now.

You want nostalgia, go to a nostalgia race.

Monte

Posted By: Sixpak

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 09:46 PM

Quote:

"And while it's sad that Scott Kalitta died, one racer's death should not have led to the shortening of the race track to 1000'. Instead, the engine combinations should have been changed to both reduce the cost and reduce the horsepower to slow the cars down, thereby attracting more potential cars in the field."

Apparently not that sad. Hey, it's only one death. What's that in comparison to your happiness? The insurace company wanted immediate action or they were going to drop coverage. There would have been NO RACING. It isn't quite as easy to detune fuel cars as you seem to think. What is your expertise in this arena BTW? You do know that there is a consortium of fuel racers and product suppliers that are working on this as we speak? Do you even race? What? My guess is that you are just another monday morning quarterback.

You speak as if you work for Glendora...yes? So I guess by your estimation, there is no problem? First step in fixing a problem is recognizing there is one to begin with; otherwise you're in denial...

I've seen some rule changes get mandated within 1 - 2 races. And that consortium you speak of are only interesting in protecting their bottom line.
Gee, someone would have to pull out some old tuneups from 20 years ago - GREAT. Bring some parity back into the ranks, while we watch these guys get a handle on a new set up. Sure we'd see the teams struggle for a race or two but it would be no different than when Goodyear yanks a certain tire and mandates another one, or a certain type of blower is outlawed.

I've done my share of bracket racing over the years, and attended my 1st National event in 1979. So no, I am not some morning quarterback. I offer up some possible solutions to attract more teams, and make the cars safer while restoring the track to the full 1320. How about picking apart my solutions with some real solid reasons, not some answer that just seeks to maintain and justify the status quo with glib retorts.

If that's Monday morning quarterbacking, and what we have now is preferable to the 'old days' then I guess the future will bring 1/8 mile Nitro cars with Force and Schumacher fielding 8 car teams....and Nitro match racing will STILL be just as dead...

Posted By: Steve1118

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/01/10 09:57 PM

Can't agree, Monte.

When I first went to Indy in 1967, the entry list was 1300 some odd and the paid attendance was over 100,000. NHRA may have picked up more spectator only types because of the catering to the pros, but for every spectator they've picked up they've lost a stock/superstock/gasser/comp, and with them the four or five people that came with them to the big races. So, the best you can say in that regard that it has been a wash. Maybe yearly attendance is up, but, don't forget, they have twenty some odd races today, where they had four or six back then.

How can you say things are healthy when if one of the three or four guys who own everything folds up his tent tomorrow there goes half the field? When all these spectators that you say they draw show up at races disguised as a aluminum bleachers?

They've been correct in trying to grow the sport, but in doing so I believe they've lost more than they've gained.

As far as going to a Nostalgia race...you said it yourself go to one. But, if you care to check it out, you will find that a lot of NHRA's ex customers do just that.

Posted By: John

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 12:55 AM

Well said, Steve1118.

Posted By: BobR

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 01:00 AM

Quote:

Although we enjoy racing both NHRA and IHRA we have to agree with Steve that the NHRA events themselves have lost touch with the everyday racers and cater to the pro classes.Like Steve we have been envolve for many years and watched the excitment of all the class racing and bracket racing deminish with all the emphasis on the T/F and Pro catagories.

The IHRA doesn't have any more pros do they? Sorry but the average fan does not pay to see the sportsmen run. There is a move to get into the popular heads up racing and that shows that the NHRA is listening to someone.

Posted By: BobR

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 01:07 AM

Quote:

News flash.....of course they cater to the pros, because that is the only thing that puts butts in the seats and it has always been that way. You cater to the pros, to draw fans, to make money, so that the sportsman racers, even have a place to race. To those that relish the "old days"...I was there in those days and same as today, the stands were a ghost town when the non pros were running. Nothing was any different then. I remember having to be in the lanes at 8am on a Thurs for class elims, same as now. The sport, has moved with the technology, same as the cars have.

Sure, you had some less than the most well known guys win back then, but most of the wins came from guys like Prudhomme, McCulloch, Glidden, Sheppard and others. Money and backing ruled then and it still does, just on a much larger scale.......Correct me if I am wrong, but did Bob Bode not just win a national event. Thats a very low buck team, as far as teams go today.

As far as some nostalgia race having 34 cars, what does that mean....thats like comparing apples to shoes, means nothing. There have been some short fields this year, but bracket turnouts are down as well, so what does that mean. It means the economy sucks, for the locas as well as the multi-million dollar teams, thats all.

Yeah, lets make it like the old days and let enginuity, imagination and MONEY sort it out. Dixon and others like him will totally dominate, even more than they do now. You can't beat money, never have, never will.

The more things change, the more they stay the same, as far as I'm concerned.

I am older than most think and like I said, was there during what some consider the "glory years".....can't say I miss it one bit, as compared to what we have now.

You want nostalgia, go to a nostalgia race.

Monte

I think that you and I are about the same age and have seen the same things. You know what I race and it costs plenty but I don't mind taking a back seat to the guys who draw the fans. I like racing at top notch facilities. Where was all these nostalgia cars? Oh ya, Famosa. Great track! We race there several times per year and it's always a tuning nightmare as well as an insect nightmare. I'll take Vegas, Firebird and Rt 66 thank you. Without professional racing these tracks would not exist.

Posted By: dOoC

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 01:23 AM

Quote:

Slow 'em down. You'll get more cars. Did you happen to notice that there were 34 Top Fuelers at Bakersfield March Meet this year? That should
tell them something.

It is not that EZ to slow-em-down ? ... Huh ? ... nitro %, fuel pumps, blower size and overdrive ..... LOTS of ways ....

Does anyone remember INDY ....way back when .....

..... and the SIXTY FOUR car fields of TF cars !

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 02:51 AM

Sportsman cars at a national event are nothing more than space filler for the nitro cars. That also includes everything up to P/S.

Look at the car counts in the IHRA since they went to the Nitro Jam formats. It's not unusual to see less than 20 cars in Super Stock and less than 30 in Stock.

Posted By: Steve1118

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 02:52 AM

This is an interesting discussion.

I will cede to you that the "supertracks" would not exist today without the DSR's and the JFR's "evolvement". I will also cede another point that has not been mentioned...that is that there has been some political clout that may have helped the sport out in some legal issues.

That being said, there has been a trade off. I still believe that for every fan they've gained they've lost a stock/ss/comp guys and the support they brought with them. I really think that the numbers of 1967 vs. the numbers today confirm that. I also think there has been such a rift between the rank and file racer and the pros/NHRA that is very alarming. I can name ten long time racers that I run with that used to attend NHRA national events and simply are not interested anymore. They can't relate to it. Oh, they still love the sport, are still active, but don't give a hoot about NHRA?Powerade "Championship" drag racing. Has the trade off been worth it? I guess everyone will have to decide that for themselves. I don't, and I think that without that strong grassroots "foundation" the sport will suffer.

I honestly don't understand the resistance to slowing the cars down, rather than push 1000 foot racing on everyone. Control the fuel, air, and ignition and you've done it. You could probably do that with existing equipment. NASCAR did it...remember in 1971 when the winged cars were running faster than they do today? They didn't shorten the tracks, they put some controls on the equipment. I don't see why NHRA can't do the same thing. They got used to it in NASCAR, they'll get used to it in NHRA. Everything is relative, anyway....I honestly don't think the average spectator can tell the difference between a 290 mph pass and a 330, provided everyone is running the same.

Posted By: camastomcat

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 03:21 AM

I have to agree with both Monte and Steve. The Sportsman classes are suffering because of the Pro syndrome at NHRA, but without the Pro fans, the sport will cease to exsist. And like Steve said, the average fan couldn't tell the difference between a 290MPH run and 330MPH. Personally, I think they just want to hear and feel the sound of nitro. It's time to slow the cars down because the tracks can't afford to lengnthen the surface on the paultry money NHRA allows them to make for a divisonal or national event. And the track operators are every bit as pi$$ed at NHRA too.
Since our track went to IHRA, the crown appeal has doubled and tripled, and while I don't care for the format, I love to see the stands full. It means we will continue to have a place to race. And I have attended both venues now and must confess while I didn't care for the new format at first, I love the way they tech and run our part of the race. Although, I wouldn't ever care to spectate at one of these things. IHRA has also put their money where their a mouth is in improvments to the track.
IMHO NHRA has forgotten an important point, the weekend bracket guys pay for the show all year long, and they shouldn't treat us like second class citizens. The hiarchy at NHRA sucks. Rant over!

Posted By: 66Hemiwagon

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 03:41 AM

Posted By: jamesc

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 04:00 AM

boy you guys sure do expect a lot from a non-profit organization

Posted By: Kyle Reasbeck

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 05:45 AM

as far as the track argument, there must be a disconnect between the east and west coast, because here in the NE the IHRA tracks are as good if not superior to the NHRA tracks:

NHRA:
Numidia (good)
Mason Dixon (fun but not a high end facility)
Maple Grove (great)

IHRA:
Pittsburgh (great)
MIR (great)
Norwalk (great, i know there NHRA now, but they were the top facility and IHRA long before they went to NHRA)
Beaver Springs (not high end, but great hook and great place to race)

So i'm not buying the "NHRA tracks are great because they're NHRA and the others suck" because here its quite the opposite.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 08:02 AM

People talk about the NHRA "circus" and how great you are treated at IHRA, well it would seem to me that IHRA IS THE CIRCUS now. Run by the same people and has the same format.

Steve, I understand your comment about the sportsman racers....but...you overlook the very point you made. Yeah, there may have been a ton on cars at INDY in 67, but there were 4 races a year. Of course you went to INDY, everybody went to INDY. Now, with 20+ big races and all the divisional races spread all over the country, sportsman racers have way more opportunity to run at more races, closer to home and for more money. I fail to see where this is a bad thing for the sportsman guys. Total numbers of racers now, at both national and divisional races, over the course of a year, will blow the 60s numbers away. So again, I just don't get where the sportsman guys are suffering. Must be doing something right, if they had to incorporate the grade point system, to keep the number of sportsman racers in check at some events.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not an NHRA lover. They do plenty I don't agree with, but I am not going to bash them. It is pretty easy for all of us to sit behind a keyboard and say what they should do, what we want them to do, or what we would do if we were in charge, but bottom line is, we are not in charge and it is never as easy as everyone thinks it is.

As far as slowing fuel cars down...sure, one pump and one mag will slow em down, but if you think it will be any cheaper, or allow any lower budget teams to be more competitive, you are sadly mistaken. Less fuel and less spark, just means they will use more compression, more boost and more lead. Motors will still be on the edge and burned up on a regular basis, probably more so. Sure, you could limit boost and compression, but then you have a spec motor, that everybody is screaming they don't want. You can't have it both ways. I have a good friend, who is the crew chief on a current, top 3 fuel car. We have had this discussion many times. If it was as easy as everyone thinks, it would have already been done.

Monte

Posted By: bwdst6

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 12:33 PM

I wonder what the effect of a restrictor plate under a roots blower would have.

Anyway, it makes good business for the sanctioning bodies to cater to national events because bringing in tens of thousands of spectators to a national event has a much greater profit margin compared to a couple hundred sportsman racers at a typical track. Because, for one, you don't have to pay spectators any win money!

Posted By: camastomcat

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 12:37 PM

Monte,
While you are right that the IHRA format is more of a circus, it draws fans and "puts peoples butts in the stands. And they pay more for less rounds and cost of entry in T/D and all of the sportsman classes with almost the same contigency program.
And your point about the NHRA doesn't hurt sportsman racers, how about all of the entry fees and certifications that seen to go up every time they feel the need to line their pockets? Have you ever been to main office in Glendora, CA? I have and and it is easy to see why this top heavy "non profit" organization is so inefficiant.
And I'm not even going to argue the cost issue with the T/F ranks. I know several teams as well, and most would like the 1000ft ruke to stand, essecially Connie K.
Bottom line is....NHRA has a major disconnect with the sportsman racers and the current attitude towards us sucks!

Posted By: BobR

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 02:29 PM

Quote:

as far as the track argument, there must be a disconnect between the east and west coast, because here in the NE the IHRA tracks are as good if not superior to the NHRA tracks:

NHRA:
Numidia (good)
Mason Dixon (fun but not a high end facility)
Maple Grove (great)

IHRA:
Pittsburgh (great)
MIR (great)
Norwalk (great, i know there NHRA now, but they were the top facility and IHRA long before they went to NHRA)
Beaver Springs (not high end, but great hook and great place to race)

So i'm not buying the "NHRA tracks are great because they're NHRA and the others suck" because here its quite the opposite.

How much HP are you running? What kinds of ET's?

Posted By: BobR

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 02:34 PM

"As far as slowing fuel cars down...sure, one pump and one mag will slow em down, but if you think it will be any cheaper, or allow any lower budget teams to be more competitive, you are sadly mistaken. Less fuel and less spark, just means they will use more compression, more boost and more lead. Motors will still be on the edge and burned up on a regular basis, probably more so. Sure, you could limit boost and compression, but then you have a spec motor, that everybody is screaming they don't want. You can't have it both ways. I have a good friend, who is the crew chief on a current, top 3 fuel car. We have had this discussion many times. If it was as easy as everyone thinks, it would have already been done."

Another thing that many don't understand is that the fuel itself is a coolant for the nitro cars. Not all of the fuel these huge pumps move gets burned. Some goes through the engine where it picks up heat then gets bypassed back into the fuel cell. If the pump size it cut something else has to suffice for this part of the operation.

Posted By: BobR

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 02:38 PM

Quote:

Monte,
While you are right that the IHRA format is more of a circus, it draws fans and "puts peoples butts in the stands. And they pay more for less rounds and cost of entry in T/D and all of the sportsman classes with almost the same contigency program.
And your point about the NHRA doesn't hurt sportsman racers, how about all of the entry fees and certifications that seen to go up every time they feel the need to line their pockets? Have you ever been to main office in Glendora, CA? I have and and it is easy to see why this top heavy "non profit" organization is so inefficiant.
And I'm not even going to argue the cost issue with the T/F ranks. I know several teams as well, and most would like the 1000ft ruke to stand, essecially Connie K.
Bottom line is....NHRA has a major disconnect with the sportsman racers and the current attitude towards us sucks!

The 1000' rules has done much to reduce costs-maybe as much or even more than depowering the engines.

Posted By: cudadon

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 03:28 PM

Quote:

I love the way they tech and run our part of the race.

What do you mean LOVE THE WAY THEY TECH?

Don

Attached picture 6173502-5-12-07final.jpg

Posted By: camastomcat

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 09/02/10 04:20 PM

I mean it doesn't take half a day to get through the registration process like it does at an NHRA national event.

Posted By: BDS871Cuda

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 11/10/10 04:33 PM

I do have to say, WOW!!! All 4 pro classes
go to the last race to win a championship.

I vote to DUMP PSM in favor of Pro-Mod!

Now only if college football would go to a
playoff system!!

Posted By: mr_340

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 11/10/10 06:37 PM

I tend to side with Monte on this one, although it was good to finally meet Steve1118 at Beaver Springs this summer. The TV coverage is "All about the NITRO", even PS gets bypassed a lot in the 1st round. Unfortuately, I think they are responding to what I see at the Texas Motorplex during the national events, the stands clear out after the nitro cars and especially after PS. Not many people even watch the alcohol classes and hardly anybody but me there for SS and Stock. I went to Indy for the 50th anniversary race. Other than the cacklefest and some nostalgia cars, it looked pretty much like any other national event to me. The Hemi shootout and the old cars was the highlight of that race. I didn't even attend the Motorplex race this year since SS wasn't running and none of my friends were racing. Only missed that race twice since 1986. The other was weather and the mudbog parking lot.

Posted By: julian2007

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 11/10/10 07:46 PM

In the end its all about the money so NHRA needs to come up with a way to make sportsman racing more interesting to the average Joe.I am a true drag race fan, trying to predict a race from watching the wind and weather is allot of fun at are races.we try to do quick math in are heads to guess a reaction time on the spread of a win.The problem is there are very few who are entertained by this.I propose they let people come in and gamble on the races.Give them a sheet with all the sportsman races and average finishes and let them bet on the outcome.It works with horse and dog racing and it will work with drag racing too,and if they donate some of the new money coming in to the cancer research deal or anything worth while they would not only be richer they would be more popular.Please don't bash me for the gambling Idea I don't even gamble but I wouldn't care if someone else did.Buts in the seats = more prize money =more car count=more prize money=more car count and so on and so on, gambling is my idea whats yours?

Posted By: MagnumExpress

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 11/11/10 01:26 AM

We Race both NHRA & IHRA. We do not run NHRA national events because we can not afford to spend a week at a race track. I really do not understand why people are so negative towards the IHRA. We get treated 100 times better at an IHRA event vs. NHRA. The tracks are equal in quality. The people that claim that they can't hook up at IHRA tracks need to spend less time on the computer complaing and more time in the shop making their cars better. The NHRA will always be about the pro's, Bottom line!!. Just my thoughts.

Posted By: Hemiroid

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 11/11/10 03:39 AM

It's funny, I hear all of this "people don't/won't watch sportsman racing", yet I went to every Milan Friday night heads-up race and the place was packed every race. Was there as many as at a national event? Nope, but they had a race every month for 6 months, not one a year.

There wasn't any nitro or alcohol flops or dragsters yet people showed up to spectate. How about "The Shakedown" at E-Town or the Yellow Bullet race? No nitro or alky pros there but the places were filled with spectaters.

If NHRA would market and cater to the sportsman racing it would be much more popular. If your sole focus is nitro pro racing and you build your races around that and neglect the rest, doing you really think it's going to be popular and succeed?

Posted By: Eric

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 11/11/10 04:55 AM

Quote:

We Race both NHRA & IHRA. We do not run NHRA national events because we can not afford to spend a week at a race track. I really do not understand why people are so negative towards the IHRA. We get treated 100 times better at an IHRA event vs. NHRA. The tracks are equal in quality. The people that claim that they can't hook up at IHRA tracks need to spend less time on the computer complaing and more time in the shop making their cars better. The NHRA will always be about the pro's, Bottom line!!. Just my thoughts.

..... I know at some events S/G was cut to one hit before eliminatons....NHRA can keep their reality TV....I'll hang with the Hillbilly's at IHRA. While I don't agree with alot of whats happened in the last 5 yrs or so...I still think IHRA actually cares if sportsmen racers show up.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 11/11/10 05:05 PM

Quote:

It's funny, I hear all of this "people don't/won't watch sportsman racing", yet I went to every Milan Friday night heads-up race and the place was packed every race. Was there as many as at a national event? Nope, but they had a race every month for 6 months, not one a year.

There wasn't any nitro or alcohol flops or dragsters yet people showed up to spectate. How about "The Shakedown" at E-Town or the Yellow Bullet race? No nitro or alky pros there but the places were filled with spectaters.

If NHRA would market and cater to the sportsman racing it would be much more popular. If your sole focus is nitro pro racing and you build your races around that and neglect the rest, doing you really think it's going to be popular and succeed?

You answered your own question "HEADS UP NIGHT AT MILAN" yes sir, that draws the crowd, but what about regular bracket night at Milan...likely a ghost town, like every other track in the country, as far as spectators anyway.

NHRA is at least trying, with the Unleashed deal. They started with Outlaw 10.5, Limited Street, EZ street and Modified Street. Modified was dropped after 1 race and EZ was run at all 4, but will be dropped because of poor car count. They are planning to continue with Outlaw and Limited, as far as I know.............We attended all 4 NHRA Unleashed races and ran EZ Street. Have never been treated better, at any other track or organization. They were more than willing to listen and even did some of the things, we, the racers suggested.

Monte

Posted By: Quicktree

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 11/11/10 05:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It's funny, I hear all of this "people don't/won't watch sportsman racing", yet I went to every Milan Friday night heads-up race and the place was packed every race. Was there as many as at a national event? Nope, but they had a race every month for 6 months, not one a year.

There wasn't any nitro or alcohol flops or dragsters yet people showed up to spectate. How about "The Shakedown" at E-Town or the Yellow Bullet race? No nitro or alky pros there but the places were filled with spectaters.

If NHRA would market and cater to the sportsman racing it would be much more popular. If your sole focus is nitro pro racing and you build your races around that and neglect the rest, doing you really think it's going to be popular and succeed?

You answered your own question "HEADS UP NIGHT AT MILAN" yes sir, that draws the crowd, but what about regular bracket night at Milan...likely a ghost town, like every other track in the country, as far as spectators anyway.

NHRA is at least trying, with the Unleashed deal. They started with Outlaw 10.5, Limited Street, EZ street and Modified Street. Modified was dropped after 1 race and EZ was run at all 4, but will be dropped because of poor car count. They are planning to continue with Outlaw and Limited, as far as I know.............We attended all 4 NHRA Unleashed races and ran EZ Street. Have never been treated better, at any other track or organization. They were more than willing to listen and even did some of the things, we, the racers suggested.

Monte

I have to agree with Monte on the unleashed event we attended last week. we really enjoyed it. probably the best I have ever been treated as a sportsman racer. sorry to hear about EZ street that was one of my favorite classes. maybe they give up to quick. wish they had give it another year. really hard to tell about a class in only a few races.I think after it starts airing on TV every class will pick up. lets hope so anyway.

Posted By: BobR

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 11/11/10 07:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It's funny, I hear all of this "people don't/won't watch sportsman racing", yet I went to every Milan Friday night heads-up race and the place was packed every race. Was there as many as at a national event? Nope, but they had a race every month for 6 months, not one a year.

There wasn't any nitro or alcohol flops or dragsters yet people showed up to spectate. How about "The Shakedown" at E-Town or the Yellow Bullet race? No nitro or alky pros there but the places were filled with spectaters.

If NHRA would market and cater to the sportsman racing it would be much more popular. If your sole focus is nitro pro racing and you build your races around that and neglect the rest, doing you really think it's going to be popular and succeed?

You answered your own question "HEADS UP NIGHT AT MILAN" yes sir, that draws the crowd, but what about regular bracket night at Milan...likely a ghost town, like every other track in the country, as far as spectators anyway.

NHRA is at least trying, with the Unleashed deal. They started with Outlaw 10.5, Limited Street, EZ street and Modified Street. Modified was dropped after 1 race and EZ was run at all 4, but will be dropped because of poor car count. They are planning to continue with Outlaw and Limited, as far as I know.............We attended all 4 NHRA Unleashed races and ran EZ Street. Have never been treated better, at any other track or organization. They were more than willing to listen and even did some of the things, we, the racers suggested.

Monte

Well that's going to leave a mark on the Glendora boys haters.

Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA??????????? - 11/11/10 07:47 PM

meh, i'm sure the nhra are doing the best they can, doing what they think is right in a tough economy. it would not behoove them to run the operation into the ground, don't you think? they may anyway, but i find it hard to believe that the hierarchy are not well intentioned. if a member is blessed with a "better idea", why not share it with the nhra, and see what happens? this doesn't mean i'm going to renew my membership, btw.

What the H___ is wrong with the NHRA???????????