Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!!

Posted By: RockChip

Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/06/10 11:43 PM

So I am gonna hang a set of snails on my coronet and buy what i have been reading that making a set of nice tube headers are a waste of time.

So I plan on making some logs similar to what HEMIFRED have on his car.

I already have some 1/2" flanges to match my heads.

What size tubes and thickness of pipe should i use?

I was thinkin 2 1/8" onto 3" pipe to my turbo flange.

Engine is a 490ci Indy headed Wedge.

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Attached picture 6072336-Freshend440-2.jpg

Posted By: Anonymous

Post deleted by Defbob - 07/07/10 12:54 AM

Posted By: RockChip

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/07/10 06:37 AM

Thanks !!!!! that really gonna help,

every one thinks I should make some fancy headers but i dont think its that important on a Turbo engine.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Post deleted by Defbob - 07/07/10 07:09 AM

Posted By: TRENDZ

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/08/10 11:06 PM

Durability will be the problem, not power output. You will go crazy repairing cracked/ warped logs. You dont have a symetrical port spaced hemi. Your center ports will give you more grief than most are willing to put up with. Do yourself a favor and listen to what "everyone else" says.

Posted By: feets

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/09/10 02:16 AM

My hot rod is an exhaust leak from hell. I can't keep gaskets in it and have had to repair a few cracks too.
My logs use 1/2" flanges.

Posted By: CW25

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/09/10 03:59 AM

I use stock manifolds sealed to the heads with high temp RTV. Never had a leak...

Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/09/10 12:29 PM

Make sure both the exh flange side and head side are perfect and don't use a gasket, just some high temp sealer.

Posted By: feets

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/09/10 01:52 PM

Quote:

I use stock manifolds sealed to the heads with high temp RTV. Never had a leak...

That's a great way to do it! Unfortunately, I couldn't make it happen without major surgery to the manifold or engine mounts.

Posted By: moparmattkos

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/09/10 06:37 PM

Please post pics of your progress . I have also been thinking of doing this!!

Posted By: feets

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/09/10 08:40 PM

I haven't done anything about it.

Posted By: CokeBottleKid

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/10/10 11:19 AM

Copper is your friend....

Posted By: feets

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/10/10 11:54 AM

Copper gaskets blow out too.

I have the ability to create an exhaust leak after the first sustained boost run.
Yeah, the logs are warped.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/11/10 03:44 AM

Now that the logs are well seasoned, just take them to a machinist that knows what he is doing and have the flanges trued. Problem solved. My machinist does this with big block Chev motorhome manifolds all the time. They are famous for warping but once seasoned and trued are good to go.

Kevin

Posted By: feets

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/11/10 03:15 PM

They are "seasoned" enough that cracks are popping up here and there.

Posted By: Duner

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/11/10 04:16 PM

Disimilar metals?

Posted By: DusterDave

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/11/10 04:51 PM

Quote:

Disimilar metals?

Probably weak welds or too thin a metal. Gotta build them beefy.

Posted By: feets

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/11/10 06:16 PM

Bingo! Metal was too thin. I should have used weld els.

Posted By: TRENDZ

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/12/10 12:08 AM

No. They will continue to shrink and harden no matter how used, or how thick they are. You plain and simply need room for expansion and contraction. If you build them so strong that they wont move, you end up first breaking studs. Then, after putting in larger studs, you eventually crack the head. If you make logs and expect them to last you MUST put slip joints in between the ports.

Posted By: feets

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/12/10 03:46 PM

I built the flanges with oversized stud holes with that in mind.
In the past, I cut the flanges between the center and outboard ports. It didn't seem to help that much since the headers were already trashed.
My current flanges are not cut.

Posted By: TRENDZ

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/12/10 09:36 PM

The slip joints need to be in the tubing. I also suggest every time this comes up, adding stud holes at the center ports.
The headers I built used the extra studs, but had a one piece 3/8" flange. No split in the flange between the ports. I had ZERO problems with them.

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Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/12/10 10:53 PM

Quote:

I built the flanges with oversized stud holes with that in mind.
In the past, I cut the flanges between the center and outboard ports. It didn't seem to help that much since the headers were already trashed.
My current flanges are not cut.

SAME AS PREVIOUSLY POSTED BY "Anonymous "

Posted By: 67_Satellite

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/16/10 02:46 PM

Built mine with all the "tricks". 1/2" flange split between center and outter ports,oversize stud holes,copper gasket with copper spray on the head side and liberal amounts of anti-sieze on the manifold side. So far so good,but time will tell.

Posted By: feets

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/16/10 03:36 PM

Quote:

Built mine with all the "tricks". 1/2" flange split between center and outter ports,oversize stud holes,copper gasket with copper spray on the head side and liberal amounts of anti-sieze on the manifold side. So far so good,but time will tell.

My headers are well seasoned. Unlike drag cars, mine get hot and stay hot. They have run more than 12,000 miles of cruising, racing, and everything else cars go through. I've had to repair a few cracks over the last 6 years.

Posted By: RockChip

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/21/10 04:40 AM

I was doin some reserch and it looks like I should use 2" els tubing, that size seems to be the closest to what i am shooting for.

Also what should I use for my 3" pipe to connect to the turbo, Just some .100 wall stainless or steel pipe?

Anny one know whare you can get the best deal on the tubing I am lookin for?

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Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/21/10 07:04 AM

for the body of the log try to stay as close as possible to the size of the opening on the turbo. that way there's no harsh steps to alter exhaust gasses

Posted By: Curt

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/24/10 12:40 AM

Dont know about "deal" but they have a good online selection

http://www.mcmaster.com/#iron-and-steel-pipe-fittings-and-pipe/=83buez

HUGE difference between 2" radius and 3" radius

Curt

Posted By: gg408

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/25/10 08:27 AM

Here is a pic of mine that i just started doing.
Hope they work or I will be making headers next.
Feel free to citique them anyone as I'm not to sure if im doing the right thing.
The primaries are 1.500" id and the log is 2.00 id. using a BW S480 on a 410 SB hoping to make around 850 fwhp.

Cheers gg408

Posted By: Duner

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/25/10 03:07 PM

Quote:

Here is a pic of mine that i just started doing.
Hope they work or I will be making headers next.
Feel free to citique them anyone as I'm not to sure if im doing the right thing.
The primaries are 1.500" id and the log is 2.00 id. using a BW S480 on a 410 SB hoping to make around 850 fwhp.

Cheers gg408

Have you checked to be sure you can get the spark plugs in and out yet?

Posted By: feets

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/25/10 05:04 PM

Quote:

Have you checked to be sure you can get the spark plugs in and out yet?

Spark plugs are so over rated. Who uses those things anymore?

I was going to flip some factory manifolds but learned that I wouldn't be able to do that and have spark plugs at the same time.

Posted By: TRENDZ

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/25/10 06:34 PM

Quote:

Here is a pic of mine that i just started doing.
Hope they work or I will be making headers next.
Feel free to citique them anyone as I'm not to sure if im doing the right thing.
The primaries are 1.500" id and the log is 2.00 id. using a BW S480 on a 410 SB hoping to make around 850 fwhp.

Cheers gg408

I have a few suggestions. I would put a slip joint between 1&3 and one between 5&7.
When finish welding, use a shielding gas inside the tubes.
The last thing I would suggest would be to try to add at least one bolt for sealing between 3&5. Now is the time since your heads are not installed on the block.
They look real nice and should easily meet your goals.

Posted By: feets

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/25/10 07:21 PM

Whenever possible, look to the OEMs for input and ideas. They spend millions of dollars designing stuff to last through the warranty period and beyond.

Trendz mentioned expansion joints. Take a look at what Merciless Bends did on their long V-12 turbo manifolds. The pics are small but they speak volumes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MERCEDES-...=item335f457f35

Posted By: gg408

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/26/10 12:00 PM

Thanks for the input guys.

The spark plugs fit ok and the bonus is I can even fit leads to them.

As for the third bolt on centre ports not to sure if it will go through to water, shouldn't be a problem i hope.

Was going to mig weld them but tig sounds like a better option so will have to get some one else to do them, will make the suggestion re sheilding gas.

Appart from trying to buy some slip joints have you any suggestions on how to make then?

Cheers gg408.

Posted By: Fury Fan

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/26/10 02:37 PM

Cummins (probably other truck diesels, too) uses slip joints in their log manifolds. Theirs look like sections of pipe collared together, unlike the 'bellows' type shown in that Mercedes picture.

Another thing to keep in mind when fabricating:
The expansion is denoted in change per unit length, meaning a longer piece will exhibit a larger change in length, so shorter pieces distort less. I doubt that it makes much difference with regards to the pipe growth/fitment in the vehicle (things shouldn�t be that tight), but it can make a difference with regard to shearing of header/manifold studs. Use the amount of slip in factory manifold holes as a guide and increase from there. There is also a good explanation in Corky Bell�s book.

Also, the coefficient of expansion is higher for stainless than steel.

Posted By: Fury Fan

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/26/10 02:48 PM

Quote:

Appart from trying to buy some slip joints have you any suggestions on how to make then?

Cheers gg408.

I've browsed the pipe fitting chart on Mcmaster and I don't see any sizes that can work as-is. The closest I found was 2" Sched 80 pipe (1.939" ID) vs the 1.9" OD of a 1 1/2" pipe (which I suspect most of us would use). I think .039" is too much clearance and would leak (but that's just my hunch).

I suppose a pipe coupling could have its ID opened up in a lathe to match the butt-weld pipe we'd use, but that's not convenient for most of us.

I think an exhaust pipe adapter of the appropriate size could be slid as a shim into the next-size-larger pipe collar. Haven't investigated, but that's the route I'd go.

Posted By: TrxR

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/26/10 07:20 PM

anyone know where a person could find either style of those expansion joints?

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/29/10 06:27 PM

Quote:

Feel free to citique them anyone as I'm not to sure if im doing the right thing.
The primaries are 1.500" id and the log is 2.00 id. using a BW S480 on a 410 SB hoping to make around 850 fwhp.

upsetting the cart here.
I think the 1.5" I.D. maybe too small as is the 2.0"
I do not know the exhaust inlet size of the turbo
but the tube should come fairly lose to it

Posted By: gg408

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 07/31/10 11:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Feel free to citique them anyone as I'm not to sure if im doing the right thing.
The primaries are 1.500" id and the log is 2.00 id. using a BW S480 on a 410 SB hoping to make around 850 fwhp.

upsetting the cart here.
I think the 1.5" I.D. maybe too small as is the 2.0"
I do not know the exhaust inlet size of the turbo
but the tube should come fairly lose to it

The turbo has a split pulse exaust housing and each side is 1 5/8" x 2 3/8" opening.
There will be 2 x 2" id pipes, 1 going to each side of the turbo exh inlet.
I'm hoping this will be sufficent for my needs right now.

gg408.

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Posted By: 68chargerboy

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 12/12/10 04:59 AM

hate to beat a dead horse but how do you guys get a round weld el to fit the oval exhaust ports on a RB? just put it in a vice and crush it just like mild steel tubing??

Posted By: gg408

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 12/15/10 11:40 AM

Yep thats the one. Hope u have a strong vice.
If you have a oxy set it makes it easier.

Cheers
gg408

Posted By: 68chargerboy

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 12/15/10 09:18 PM

thanks for the reply, lucky for me i have both

cant wait to get this project done this winter!!

Posted By: Wilde Racing

Re: Gonna build some log manifolds HELP!!!!!!! - 12/23/10 06:35 AM

Quote:

Here is a pic of mine that i just started doing.
Hope they work or I will be making headers next.
Feel free to citique them anyone as I'm not to sure if im doing the right thing.
The primaries are 1.500" id and the log is 2.00 id. using a BW S480 on a 410 SB hoping to make around 850 fwhp.

Cheers gg408

You will have no problem hitting that HP goal, I had very good luck with a S475.

I would recommend schedule 40 weld 90*'s. They are thick, strong and easy to weld. They just REALLY suck cutting and grinding....

Here is a picture of my "log" type manifold on a LS engine...