Moparts

stealth heads?

Posted By: 73_dart_beast

stealth heads? - 06/29/10 02:35 AM

I want to build a 512 stroaker and i was concidering using the cnc ported stealth heads from 440source. Anyway do any of you have thease heads? If so what type of power are they capeable of making? Can the heads handle being cnc ported to the maxwedge size ports and would they flow more than the standard cnc port? Thanks in advance, have a great day...
Posted By: mopartoby

Re: stealth heads? - 06/29/10 02:44 AM

i built a mild 528 six pack for a customer, and used a set of stealth heads. they were'nt ported but they handle it very well. all in all they work pretty good for what they are. i don't know if i would use them on an all out race motor,
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: stealth heads? - 06/29/10 04:04 AM

Quote:

I want to build a 512 stroaker and i was concidering using the cnc ported stealth heads from 440source. Anyway do any of you have thease heads? If so what type of power are they capable of making? Can the heads handle being cnc ported to the maxwedge size ports and would they flow more than the standard cnc port? Thanks in advance, have a great day...



The 440 source Stealth and Edelbrock RPM heads really are geared / sold as aluminum replacement heads that make good power, but I would not bother trying to make them into a race head. If you want a max wedge port size head, use the Indy, Edelbrock Victor M/W, B1, or (I think pro-comp may have a M/W port size head?)
Posted By: 73_dart_beast

Re: stealth heads? - 06/29/10 02:10 PM

Thanks for the info. I am really looking to make a 700 HP street srtip car. To hurt some feelings here in the big easy.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: stealth heads? - 06/29/10 02:30 PM

The CNC version should support 700 hp on a 512 inch shortblock. You'll need plenty of compression, cam and intake. Wouldn't be all that street friendly but you can make 700 hp with that combo.
Posted By: TonyS451

Re: stealth heads? - 06/29/10 02:46 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the info. I am really looking to make a 700 HP street srtip car. To hurt some feelings here in the big easy.



Hurt some feelings , I like that. I agree, if 700hp is the number you need, and you like the Stealth value, I might look to the Pro Comp Victor copies. They are selling those for like 1500 bucks cnc ported. The Stealths could get you to 700, but would need to be a max effort type build.
Posted By: therocks

Re: stealth heads? - 06/29/10 03:50 PM

I agree the Stealths are a good buy for what they are.My motor is pushing 600 with them and they have been on 3 years street strip.Ive heard some of the other heads suggested are cracking and porous.If you want to go Max wedge Id look at Indys.Rocky
Posted By: PolyDart

Re: stealth heads? - 06/29/10 03:53 PM

Quote:

Can the heads handle being cnc ported to the maxwedge size ports and would they flow more than the standard cnc port?



There is a guy on the Big Block Dart site who took his Stealth heads up to MW port size. I believe he needed to do a bit of TIG welding, but he definitely did it. If I'm not mistaken he's running 8s in an Arrow.
Posted By: 73_dart_beast

Re: stealth heads? - 06/29/10 09:08 PM

Thanks for the tips...
Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: stealth heads? - 06/29/10 11:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks for the info. I am really looking to make a 700 HP street srtip car. To hurt some feelings here in the big easy.



Hurt some feelings , I like that. I agree, if 700hp is the number you need, and you like the Stealth value, I might look to the Pro Comp Victor copies. They are selling those for like 1500 bucks cnc ported. The Stealths could get you to 700, but would need to be a max effort type build.



the motor would be pretty hairy..not much fun on the street. 700 HP is alot for any street motor..unless forced induction or nitrous is used. Something like a 572 with SR heads is what it would take to get 700 "streetable" N/A horsepower...and thats big $$$.
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: stealth heads? - 06/30/10 03:52 AM

700 HP is a blast on the street, but way too easy to get a ticket

Here is a MaxWedge intake gasket on a stealth head to get an idea of the port size difference.

Attached picture 6061018-stealth.jpg
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: stealth heads? - 06/30/10 04:01 AM

Victor MW vs. Stealth intakes picture

Attached picture 6061027-sv-intake.jpg
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: stealth heads? - 06/30/10 04:02 AM

Victor vs. stealth exhaust port picture

Attached picture 6061030-sv-exhaust.jpg
Posted By: 73_dart_beast

Re: stealth heads? - 06/30/10 08:57 PM

Thanks for all the help....
Posted By: 512 VALIANT

Re: stealth heads? - 06/30/10 09:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks for the info. I am really looking to make a 700 HP street srtip car. To hurt some feelings here in the big easy.



Hurt some feelings , I like that. I agree, if 700hp is the number you need, and you like the Stealth value, I might look to the Pro Comp Victor copies. They are selling those for like 1500 bucks cnc ported. The Stealths could get you to 700, but would need to be a max effort type build.



I agree this is a post here on my engine, similiar #'s https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...&PHPSESSID=
700hp just doesn't fall out of trees. Stealth heads are not going to get you there.
Posted By: topbrent

Re: stealth heads? - 06/30/10 09:20 PM

If you can be satisfied with "only" 654-HP, build a clone of this engine.
It uses hand ported RPM heads. MCH cnc Stealth heads are even better.
There are many combinations out there, but this one is very impressive from the parts/cost/performance standpoint.

The Scott Brown built, 496 in Caper's car is simple and stout.
10.44 , 1.44 60 ft 3704lbs, street driven 654 hp , 653 ft tq

http://www.buyracingparts.com/dyno-ehead496.html
496 CID Wedge - pump gas street engine (10.7 to 1)
Straightline rotating assembly
Ported Edelbrock heads (300 CFM)
Ported Victor Single Plane
Straightline Flat tappet, 263/273 @ .050
4150 Carb ( Quick Fuel 1050-AN)
Indy Roller rockers
1" tapered spacer


Posted By: 383man

383man - 07/01/10 12:52 AM

Quote:

If you can be satisfied with "only" 654-HP, build a clone of this engine.
It uses hand ported RPM heads. MCH cnc Stealth heads are even better.
There are many combinations out there, but this one is very impressive from the parts/cost/performance standpoint.

The Scott Brown built, 496 in Caper's car is simple and stout.
10.44 , 1.44 60 ft 3704lbs, street driven 654 hp , 653 ft tq

http://www.buyracingparts.com/dyno-ehead496.html
496 CID Wedge - pump gas street engine (10.7 to 1)
Straightline rotating assembly
Ported Edelbrock heads (300 CFM)
Ported Victor Single Plane
Straightline Flat tappet, 263/273 @ .050
4150 Carb ( Quick Fuel 1050-AN)
Indy Roller rockers
1" tapered spacer







Thats very close to what I want to build for my 63. When I can afford the parts I plan to build it as I want it to be a 3700 lb mid 10 second pump gas street car. Thats my ultimate goal with my 63 and I was planning on using Eddy heads and the Victor intake at first. Ron
Posted By: 440sourcedotcom

Re: stealth heads? - 07/01/10 03:35 AM

Quote:


700hp just doesn't fall out of trees. Stealth heads are not going to get you there.



We have had quite a few people break the 700 HP mark with the CNC stealth heads done by Jeff at Modern. The heads are 320+ CFM, using the standard formula which translates CFM into horsepower potential (because internal combustion engines are, after all, large air pumps) 320 CFM comes out to about 690 horsepower or so, IIRC.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: stealth heads? - 07/01/10 04:51 AM

I agree, 700 certainly isn't impossible with the CNC ported Stealths. Might not be easy to do but shouldn't really be a problem for an experienced engine builder. Might not be the most cost effective way to make 700 hp but that is another matter.
Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: stealth heads? - 07/01/10 11:49 AM

First off, let me say welcome to the board

While I've never run the Stealth heads, I've heard that they can be made to flow about the same as Eddy RPM's. If that's true, Like Adny said an experienced builder should be able to get you there.

We did make a couple of pulls on my Koffel's Place built 446 with hand ported eddy heads on C 12 .

The best Gas pull of the first go around. This was with the 5555 solid cam intaslled on a 108 CL




After the bearing and spring failure, Scott decided to adv the cam to 105 to make a little more piston to valve clearence and lower the RPM range to help my springs live longer and not float the valves.




All things being equal, I'ld think the extra cubes and maybe a bigger cam than I'm running would improve those numbers.

Assuming I'm not at the limit of what the heads can feed that is

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: stealth heads? - 07/01/10 07:20 PM

This is sort of what I was getting at.
I think the CNC ported stealth heads are $997 each and flow about 320 cfm.
A pair of Victor M/W heads from Hughes is $1497 and I think they flow about 320 cfm out of the box (according to Edelbrock, 322 @ 0.600"?)

The Stealths do come with valve springs where the Victors don't, but the Stealth springs are not going to work with a cam that would make 700 HP numbers.

I think at the 700 HP level, both heads should be using high quality rocker systems, so the cost of the differnt rocker offsets is a wash, same for intake and exhaust.
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: stealth heads? - 07/01/10 07:48 PM

Quote:

This is sort of what I was getting at.
I think the CNC ported stealth heads are $997 each and flow about 320 cfm.
A pair of Victor M/W heads from Hughes is $1497 and I think they flow about 320 cfm out of the box (according to Edelbrock, 322 @ 0.600"?)

The Stealths do come with valve springs where the Victors don't, but the Stealth springs are not going to work with a cam that would make 700 HP numbers.

I think at the 700 HP level, both heads should be using high quality rocker systems, so the cost of the differnt rocker offsets is a wash, same for intake and exhaust.



I just bought a pair of EDE Vic MW heads w/valves for $1288, less $100 in goodies/rebates, ~$1200 to my door. Getting T&D 1.7's and some good springs, should be in at around $2800 or so ready to bolt on with some clean up porting. If I went smaller on the cam, I could run rockers which cost basically $500 or so vs. $1000 T&D's, so that would reduce the number further along with lower cost springs.

By the time you buy/port the stealths, buy good valve train and replace springs/retainers, the EDE MW are same money or less and have more room for growth, better chamber, etc.

Every product has it's target market. Nice thing about the stealth head is the look. However, you aren't going to fool anyone with a stock look BB mopar busting out 700hp. It's gotta a fouled plug line won't cut it!
Posted By: 73_dart_beast

Re: stealth heads? - 07/01/10 09:46 PM

451, the ede victor head does look like the better deal for me. Who makes the best bang for the buck springs, rockers and shaft? The cam i am looking at is a solid roller cam 272/276 dur @.050, 620/620 lift with 1.5 and 661/661 lift with 1.6. I am thinking i want to use the 1.6 rockers. Is there a way to figure what the duration will be with the 1.6 rockers? Also because the vicktor head is taller will the extra hight be an issue in my 73 dart? Thanks for all the help yall are giving me...
Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: stealth heads? - 07/01/10 10:57 PM

Your duration is virtually the same no matter the rocker ratio.
Yes, the raised exh. ports on Victors could be an issue with headers, etc. You might consider the Indy EZ head which would produce power close to the Victor but has stock location exh. ports.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: stealth heads? - 07/01/10 11:22 PM

Quote:

This is sort of what I was getting at.
I think the CNC ported stealth heads are $997 each and flow about 320 cfm.
A pair of Victor M/W heads from Hughes is $1497 and I think they flow about 320 cfm out of the box (according to Edelbrock, 322 @ 0.600"?)

The Stealths do come with valve springs where the Victors don't, but the Stealth springs are not going to work with a cam that would make 700 HP numbers.

I think at the 700 HP level, both heads should be using high quality rocker systems, so the cost of the differnt rocker offsets is a wash, same for intake and exhaust.



you probably shouldn't get hung up on flow #'s. port cross section and chamber size and design have just as much to do with making power.
put the same level of porting in to both heads and the victor headed motor will make the stealth headed motor look like it's in reverse. indy SR and 440-1 heads don't flow big numbers out of the box either, but they smoke even the ported stealth and rpm head and have way more potential.
cubic feet of air is but one equation when it comes to making horsepower.

not coincidentally, of the engines i've read about with stealth or rpm heads that supposedly make 700 hp, i've yet to see any of them at the track back up what the dyno says. eventually it'll happen, but it hasn't yet.
Posted By: mopar65

Re: stealth heads? - 07/01/10 11:28 PM

Quote:

Your duration is virtually the same no matter the rocker ratio.
Yes, the raised exh. ports on Victors could be an issue with headers, etc. You might consider the Indy EZ head which would produce power close to the Victor but has stock location exh. ports.



I agree i just put my Indy EZ headed 440 into my 73 dart last night.mopar65
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: stealth heads? - 07/02/10 04:29 AM

Quote:

451, the ede victor head does look like the better deal for me. Who makes the best bang for the buck springs, rockers and shaft? The cam i am looking at is a solid roller cam 272/276 dur @.050, 620/620 lift with 1.5 and 661/661 lift with 1.6. I am thinking i want to use the 1.6 rockers. Is there a way to figure what the duration will be with the 1.6 rockers? Also because the vicktor head is taller will the extra hight be an issue in my 73 dart? Thanks for all the help yall are giving me...



I don't know what the best bang for the buck parts are. The Victors have their own issues, mainly pushrod clearance and getting the correct offset rocker arms. As far as I know only the T&D and Harlan Sharp (Indy) rockers work. I think the HS Indy rockers are 0.800" offset and the T&D rockers are 0.725" offset. That is for the M/W ports, I think the standard port victors can use the Hughes 0.600" offset rockers. Remind me to get more rocker info next week. My machine shop is building a 528" megablock with M/W victor heads and it is a blower motor. That engine is using the harlan Sharpe rockers. I have the T&D 1.6:1 rockers and both rocker systems cost about $1,000, not cheap, but if your building a 700 HP engine (even with Stealth or RPM heads) you will want to use these brands of rockers, the less expensive rockers may work, but I think they will break or wear out much sooner. I am using the PAC1325 valve springs. I was going to use the 1225 springs but they were back ordered so i got a deal on the 1325 springs. Again, these are pricy, but they should last much longer than the Comp cams springs. Believe me, you don't want to float a valve and have it break the head off at 6,500 RPM!
This is the reason I had to build a new engine.
You did not say if this is a "B" or "RB" build?
I just got done building a 500" "B" (400 block) using the 440 source kit, the Victor M/W heads, and a mild Comp 264/264 @ 0.050", 0.714" lift cam.
originally I planned to use more cam, but the piston to valve clearances were getting tight, so if you go with a larger cam, you may want to mock up the engine before ballancing it just in cast the valve pockets need to be machined deeper.
I also used the BCR aluminum main caps and girdle to beef up the stock 400 block. As you can tell, this was not a "budget" engine build, but is less than some other "crate" engines in the same power range.
My next upcomming build is a 512" 440 source kit in a 0.030" over 440 block (really 505".) This is for my convertible which is street driven, so I don't need big HP numbers, and I want it to look fairly stock, so I am using the 440 stealth heads on it, and a hydraulic cam. I haven't decided on an intake, but maybe a six-pack so it will fit under the hood.
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