Posted By: sublimehemi
new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/17/10 10:12 PM
it just came today,thought id post pics.he is on ebay or he has a website,his hemi rocker shafts look stout as well.
new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine
Posted By: sublimehemi
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/17/10 10:13 PM
another
Posted By: sublimehemi
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/17/10 10:18 PM
he sold to me for 250 shipped,good deal,his feedback name is promach and says his timing cover is better than rcd and his rockershafts are equal or better than dechellis.i dont know if the cover is better than ar engineering but for 250 i am happy.they also come in black anodized and clear anodized,i have the machine finish...
Posted By: sublimehemi
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/17/10 10:19 PM
back of cover and it is o-ringed
Posted By: Bob_Coomer
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/17/10 10:25 PM
Looks like a nice piece...also looks strikingly similar to AndyF's/AR Engineering cover... 
Posted By: sublimehemi
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/17/10 10:44 PM
anyone have a pic or the ar to compare???
Posted By: SSAAHemiFan
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/17/10 11:59 PM
I couldn't get the website to work, looks like a nice piece however.
I would like to check out his Hemi shafts..
BTW - I think Andy's cover has a external seal
I would like to check out his Hemi shafts..
BTW - I think Andy's cover has a external seal
Posted By: sublimehemi
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/18/10 12:21 AM
go to ebay and type hemi rocker shafts.....they are very trick,i would buy them but i have t$d barton.
Posted By: fourgearsavoy
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/18/10 12:44 AM
Quote:
I couldn't get the website to work, looks like a nice piece however.
I would like to check out his Hemi shafts..
BTW - I think Andy's cover has a external seal
Yeah alot of the aftermarket covers don't have the good seal setup that Andy's cover has.I have no idea why they don't just leave the hole thru
Gus
Posted By: sublimehemi
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/18/10 01:29 AM
THE SEAL LOOKS THE SAME TO ME WHATS DIFFERENT?i have been looking hard at the two and it looks like he must have copied andys almost exactly except for the pointer and the 4 bottom bolts are recessed unless anyone can tell me different...
Posted By: fourgearsavoy
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/18/10 02:14 AM
Quote:
THE SEAL LOOKS THE SAME TO ME WHATS DIFFERENT?
You can replace the seal on the other covers without removing the cover,it drives in from the front
Gus
Posted By: sublimehemi
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/18/10 03:01 AM
i just popped the cam plate off,its super thick and double o-ringed like andy's,i just emailed the guy to ask him if the front seal is push from the back or front,i will let everyone know as soon as i find out....thanks guys
Posted By: abodiesonly1
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/18/10 03:39 AM
Quote:
i just popped the cam plate off,its super thick and double o-ringed like andy's,i just emailed the guy to ask him if the front seal is push from the back or front,i will let everyone know as soon as i find out....thanks guys
Just by looking at the picture, it appears the front seal goes in from the backside. Meaning the cover has to come off to change it.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/18/10 03:40 AM
i wouldn't worry too much about the front seal and from which side it gets installed. in 35 years of working on Mopars i can't ever remember a time where i had to replace a front seal unless i already had the engine apart for another reason.
it looks like a nice cover for a good price.
it looks like a nice cover for a good price.
Posted By: aarcudaden
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/18/10 03:59 AM
Thats a good lookin piece
Posted By: moparmattkos
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/18/10 04:23 AM
I like that !!!
Posted By: sublimehemi
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/18/10 05:06 AM
seal goes in from back of cover 
Posted By: AndyF
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/18/10 05:44 AM
Looks like the guy isn't smart enough to come up with his own design.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/18/10 09:17 AM
Quote:
Looks like the guy isn't smart enough to come up with his own design. Someone sent me a link to the guys ebay ad and the guy is such a low life that he actually used a picture from my website to sell the parts that he copied from me. Nothing more than a scum sucking thief.
i looked at his ebay ad but couldn't find any pictures of your cover on there. maybe he took those down?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-BIL...=item2c5466f15c
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/18/10 12:08 PM
Quote:On ebay it is listed at $299.99 plus shipping.
he sold to me for 250 shipped
As far as the seal, either way is fine IMO. I never had a problem with the timing cover seal. I just use the factory covers, painted the same as the block. I like Andy's feature for roller cam end play measurement.
For price comparison:
$330 AndyF from Mancini
$300 Cleveland from ebay
$125 Indy cast aluminum from Mancini
$100 Fabricated aluminum from 440source
$ 19 New steel factory style from 440source
$ 16 New chrome plated steel from 440source
Compare features yourself.
Posted By: cl440
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/18/10 12:43 PM
Quote:
Looks like the guy isn't smart enough to come up with his own design. Someone sent me a link to the guys ebay ad and the guy is such a low life that he actually used a picture from my website to sell the parts that he copied from me. Nothing more than a scum sucking thief.
If that is true, that is just wrong!!!
Posted By: sublimehemi
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/18/10 03:37 PM
Quote:
Looks like the guy isn't smart enough to come up with his own design. Someone sent me a link to the guys ebay ad and the guy is such a low life that he actually used a picture from my website to sell the parts that he copied from me. Nothing more than a scum sucking thief.
hi andy,i know how it feels when someone copies a part,my brother has the patent on engine girdles,ls1 mainly,but he paid 12 g for the patent,cause he knew people were gonna steal,lingenfelter copied it and a few others.i also made a part for b/rb but if i let the cat out of the bag everyone will be selling it.people will always copy parts.
Posted By: mopardamo
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/18/10 10:28 PM
Hello,
I was the person who sent the info to AndyF. The same person is also selling them on racing junk. Here is the link
http://www.racingjunk.com/category/1297/...COVER-NEW-.html
In this ad he has AndyF's picture. At first AndyF thought he had somehow got a few and was selling them on his own. It appears totally different now.
Hang'em high
Damon
I was the person who sent the info to AndyF. The same person is also selling them on racing junk. Here is the link
http://www.racingjunk.com/category/1297/...COVER-NEW-.html
In this ad he has AndyF's picture. At first AndyF thought he had somehow got a few and was selling them on his own. It appears totally different now.
Hang'em high
Damon
Posted By: sublimehemi
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/19/10 12:24 AM
Quote:
Hello,
I was the person who sent the info to AndyF. The same person is also selling them on racing junk. Here is the link
http://www.racingjunk.com/category/1297/...COVER-NEW-.html
In this ad he has AndyF's picture. At first AndyF thought he had somehow got a few and was selling them on his own. It appears totally different now.
Hang'em high
Damon
man why am i stuck in the middle,paul is not a member her but he said to post this....
Hey there Damon hows it going?
My name is Paul Popov i own CLEVELAND SPEED & MACHINE Co. in, yes you guessed it Cleveland , OH.
I would like to clear the air on a few things , not that i have to but because i think it is the right thing to do.
Why would you send me a message asking about this cover when obviously you are familiar with ANDYF's products?. Yes , this photo IS from ANDYF's website because (actually maybe from Hughes Engines website) Yes , this cover is one from AREngineering by way of Hughes Engines!( it is written in the ad!) and it is for sale. I paid $350.00 plus shipping for it - interested? its a steal at only $300.00!. make me an offer. I am dealing!.
The reason i made my own and extras is because i was not satisfied with the quality of the one from AREngineering - or is it Hershberger Motors? This kind of machine work and fabricated timing pointer for $350.00....ouch.
Do not fear, as soon as i sell the covers i made i will no longer be making them in this configuration. I will be making them a little differently along with covers for Small and Big-Block Chevies , but , the public will get a quality part at a fair price.
Now before you start calling me names again - pay attention - i am not saying that the design is poor - its the quality of the part i was not happy with. i liked the design - because of course it was designed by the Mopar Guru.
I will send a copy of this letter to ANDYF. I am not a member on Moparts, if you would like to post a copy of this letter please feel free. I have more to say to you and ANDYF and the other members which would like to as you say "HANG ME HIGH!" but, i am not going to hide behind a keyboard and call people names and bash them @ 2:00 A.M.! I am just not that way.
Feel free to call me / email me anytime during business hours my # is in the ad and has been posted on MOPARTS , i am more than willing to discuss any issues you may have with me.
Thanks for all your help in twisting this situation into something that never should have been.
All the best to you,
Paul Popov
CLEVELAND SPEED & MACHINE Co.
13800 Progress Parkway
Unit A
Cleveland , OH 44133
440.482.6677
f-440.582.6680
clevelandspeed@sbcglobal.net
Jig & Fixture Design and Build - Prototype and Production CNC Machining - General Machining - Welding and Fabrication - I.D. & O.D. grinding
Contact us with all your manufacturing needs!.
Posted By: mopardamo
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/19/10 12:58 AM
Hello Sublimehemi,
I am doing fine. Thanks for asking. I did not wish for him to involve you. Sorry! Heck I did not know I was walking into a trap.
He sent me the sam message just a bit ago. Wanted me to post it too. Guy seems to be a real card.
I started a tread a few day ago about the best street/strip timing cover because I am in the market. I wanted AndyF's cover and have been conversing with my machinist. The cost is a concern for me. I was looking around trying to find something I also liked that was not stamped steel or made by Indy. Found his ad on Racing Junk. I asked him these questions
"Does this cover come with a end play checking plate like the current ones?
Can the seal be put in thru the front or is it like the stock cover and the seal go in from the motor side?"
He responded and did not know what I was talking about relative to the current ones. He also said that he has ads on ebay about the same cover. So I looked on ebay. Found what Dram posted. Looked like AndyF's cover. I figured if I could save a few dollars maybe it was worth looking into. So I PM Andy with the info I had and asked him if it was his cover. Andy apparently just looked at the Racing Junk ad and replied that he did not know the guy, but buy at your own risk. So what you have read in this thread has now come to light.
Guy admits to copying AndyF's product and trying to undercut him on pricing. He is playing it off as OK because he will not make any more in that "configuration". He obviously has eyes on this thread and has "more to say to you and ANDYF and the other members". Where the heck did his 2 am comment come from? Well Cleveland Speed & Machine if you stole my part and tried blatantly to jam it up my ass I would more than keyboard harass you. Sorry I twisted this up for you. NOT!
Damon
I am doing fine. Thanks for asking. I did not wish for him to involve you. Sorry! Heck I did not know I was walking into a trap.
He sent me the sam message just a bit ago. Wanted me to post it too. Guy seems to be a real card.
I started a tread a few day ago about the best street/strip timing cover because I am in the market. I wanted AndyF's cover and have been conversing with my machinist. The cost is a concern for me. I was looking around trying to find something I also liked that was not stamped steel or made by Indy. Found his ad on Racing Junk. I asked him these questions
"Does this cover come with a end play checking plate like the current ones?
Can the seal be put in thru the front or is it like the stock cover and the seal go in from the motor side?"
He responded and did not know what I was talking about relative to the current ones. He also said that he has ads on ebay about the same cover. So I looked on ebay. Found what Dram posted. Looked like AndyF's cover. I figured if I could save a few dollars maybe it was worth looking into. So I PM Andy with the info I had and asked him if it was his cover. Andy apparently just looked at the Racing Junk ad and replied that he did not know the guy, but buy at your own risk. So what you have read in this thread has now come to light.
Guy admits to copying AndyF's product and trying to undercut him on pricing. He is playing it off as OK because he will not make any more in that "configuration". He obviously has eyes on this thread and has "more to say to you and ANDYF and the other members". Where the heck did his 2 am comment come from? Well Cleveland Speed & Machine if you stole my part and tried blatantly to jam it up my ass I would more than keyboard harass you. Sorry I twisted this up for you. NOT!
Damon
Posted By: Stanton
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/19/10 02:44 AM
In this day and age, anyone with a good product that doesn't expect it to be copied is fooling themselves (or maybe the product just isn't as good as they think!). The only way to eliminate copies is to price the product as low as possible right off the bat. Clearly if this guy can copy Andy's cover and sell it for less, then Andy needs to look at reducing his costs or lowering his profit. Its as simple as that.
And while this topic is fresh, is Andy's the "original" billet cover or has he in fact "copied" someone else's but added a few refinements? (The FHO unit is VERY similar - or is that one of Andy's?)
Furthermore, how many of us have fabricated EXACT copies of products because we have the abilities to do it for less than the retail cost. What's the difference if its one for ourselves or a hundred to sell, a copy is a copy PERIOD.
You live in what is quite possibly the most capitalistic country on the planet guys ... get over it !
And while this topic is fresh, is Andy's the "original" billet cover or has he in fact "copied" someone else's but added a few refinements? (The FHO unit is VERY similar - or is that one of Andy's?)
Furthermore, how many of us have fabricated EXACT copies of products because we have the abilities to do it for less than the retail cost. What's the difference if its one for ourselves or a hundred to sell, a copy is a copy PERIOD.
You live in what is quite possibly the most capitalistic country on the planet guys ... get over it !
Posted By: AndyF
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/19/10 04:07 AM
Many aftermarket parts are copied from other parts and then improved.
Posted By: abodiesonly1
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/19/10 04:07 AM
While I can stand to see products being directly copied, its life. There are very few products that aren't copied, with very slight differences.
That being said, How many ways can you make a timing cover?
That being said, How many ways can you make a timing cover?
Posted By: AndyF
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/19/10 05:26 AM
Copying someone else's product is against the law. The pictures on my website have copyright protection and the distinctive design of my timing cover is also protected. If you decide to sell cola in bottle that has the same shape as a Coke bottle you'll get your butt sued off. Look at the pictures and you'll see that the guy copied my design without even bothering to make it different. Same exact center design with the dual o-rings, same curves at the bottom, same checking plate, etc. Just a simple rip-off job without any effort to change things.
Posted By: abodiesonly1
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/19/10 07:18 AM
I agree Andy. I guess I'm a little confused.
The RJ link and the Ebay link show 2 clearly different covers.
The RJ link and the Ebay link show 2 clearly different covers.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/19/10 07:36 AM
wow, a couple of the posts sure seem a bit over the top, especially with the name calling and bashing. 
after looking at pictures of both covers it appaears to me that the only similarity is the center cover for the cam. the rest of the cover from Cleveland Speed looks to be much more refined with a better timing pointer setup and recessed mounting holes, not to mention the overall machined appearance with more material removed, especially near the bottom, creating a different symmetry, if you will.
i don't have a dog in this fight, but consider how many H beam connecting rods, rocker arms and shafts or cylinder heads (among other things) "appear" to be "copies", yet there doesn't appear to be the same type of outrage.
after all, don't we all want more options for parts when it comes to our Mopars? i know i do.
after looking at pictures of both covers it appaears to me that the only similarity is the center cover for the cam. the rest of the cover from Cleveland Speed looks to be much more refined with a better timing pointer setup and recessed mounting holes, not to mention the overall machined appearance with more material removed, especially near the bottom, creating a different symmetry, if you will.
i don't have a dog in this fight, but consider how many H beam connecting rods, rocker arms and shafts or cylinder heads (among other things) "appear" to be "copies", yet there doesn't appear to be the same type of outrage.
after all, don't we all want more options for parts when it comes to our Mopars? i know i do.
Posted By: moparniac
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/19/10 09:28 AM
the guy obviously took andys design and made a few changes.... I bet the guy is chinese 
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/19/10 12:53 PM
Andy I assume you have a patient on your part... I
have 5 different patients on different automotive
parts BUT being that I was working for Chrysler they
have the rights UNLESS it is sold to another company
but the way they(and all the other companies)get around
this is to TRADE patients which no money is involved.
Even a small change in a part(has to be enough of a
change) to get around patient rights.... but I dont
like people just down right stealing idea's (look at
the Chinese)they dont even reverse engineer it, they
just down right copy it
have 5 different patients on different automotive
parts BUT being that I was working for Chrysler they
have the rights UNLESS it is sold to another company
but the way they(and all the other companies)get around
this is to TRADE patients which no money is involved.
Even a small change in a part(has to be enough of a
change) to get around patient rights.... but I dont
like people just down right stealing idea's (look at
the Chinese)they dont even reverse engineer it, they
just down right copy it
Posted By: Paul_CSM
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/19/10 01:25 PM
First off - NO Sledgehammer, i am not Chinese.
I surely did not think this thread would turn into this type legal blaze about Patents and copyrights , bashing and name calling.
Damon - The way i interpreted your posts was that you were fueling the fire to ANDYF - like "look what this guy is doing", at the time i did not realize that you were actually looking into purchasing a cover. Did not mean to throw you under the bus , for that i apologize.
ANDYF - All i was / am trying to do is improve something which i purchased and was not satisfied with. I wont go into detail here about the similaritis of aftermarket Mopar Timing covers - that would take days to list all which are available and describe how they relate to a stock Mopar stamped cover , afterall they fit the same thing dont they? Dual o-rings on a access cover? Way old technology - this was being done on Cast covers back in the day.I will not make any more covers like i presently have listed on Ebay.
But, ANDYF i do not feel the things you wrote about me are justified , especially on a forum such as Moparts - These comments of yours are a little rough -
from ANDYF "Looks like the guy isn't smart enough to come up with his own design. Someone sent me a link to the guys ebay ad and the guy is such a low life that he actually used a picture from my website to sell the parts that he copied from me. Nothing more than a scum sucking thief"
OR
"Many aftermarket parts are copied from other parts and then improved. But this low life copied my part, made the design worse in the process and then used pictures from my website to advertise. He evidently is too stupid to come up with his own design and is too lazy to take his own pictures.
The guy is basically a crook. Provide him with your credit card info at your own risk. If he is willing to steal stuff from me who says he won't steal stuff from you too? "....Did i deserve this? You dont even know me or have your facts straight.
Now the part about me using your pictures to sell MY cover - this is simply not true. If you go to Racingjunk and look at my ad , i am actually selling the cover i bought from you! - It has a picture of YOUR cover and it states in the ad that the cover is from AR Engineering. I did not know this was wrong.
The covers which are for sale on Ebay are the the ones i made and use pictures i took and descriptions i wrote. I did not know any other way to sell them.
I have just joined Moparts.com and this is my first post , it is not the type of post i envisioned - but here i am.Hopefully me next posts will not of this nature.
Paul
I surely did not think this thread would turn into this type legal blaze about Patents and copyrights , bashing and name calling.
Damon - The way i interpreted your posts was that you were fueling the fire to ANDYF - like "look what this guy is doing", at the time i did not realize that you were actually looking into purchasing a cover. Did not mean to throw you under the bus , for that i apologize.
ANDYF - All i was / am trying to do is improve something which i purchased and was not satisfied with. I wont go into detail here about the similaritis of aftermarket Mopar Timing covers - that would take days to list all which are available and describe how they relate to a stock Mopar stamped cover , afterall they fit the same thing dont they? Dual o-rings on a access cover? Way old technology - this was being done on Cast covers back in the day.I will not make any more covers like i presently have listed on Ebay.
But, ANDYF i do not feel the things you wrote about me are justified , especially on a forum such as Moparts - These comments of yours are a little rough -
from ANDYF "Looks like the guy isn't smart enough to come up with his own design. Someone sent me a link to the guys ebay ad and the guy is such a low life that he actually used a picture from my website to sell the parts that he copied from me. Nothing more than a scum sucking thief"
OR
"Many aftermarket parts are copied from other parts and then improved. But this low life copied my part, made the design worse in the process and then used pictures from my website to advertise. He evidently is too stupid to come up with his own design and is too lazy to take his own pictures.
The guy is basically a crook. Provide him with your credit card info at your own risk. If he is willing to steal stuff from me who says he won't steal stuff from you too? "....Did i deserve this? You dont even know me or have your facts straight.
Now the part about me using your pictures to sell MY cover - this is simply not true. If you go to Racingjunk and look at my ad , i am actually selling the cover i bought from you! - It has a picture of YOUR cover and it states in the ad that the cover is from AR Engineering. I did not know this was wrong.
The covers which are for sale on Ebay are the the ones i made and use pictures i took and descriptions i wrote. I did not know any other way to sell them.
I have just joined Moparts.com and this is my first post , it is not the type of post i envisioned - but here i am.Hopefully me next posts will not of this nature.
Paul
Posted By: AndyF
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/19/10 02:32 PM
Stop making and selling copies of my cover and using my copyrighted material and I'm fine.
Posted By: abodiesonly1
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/19/10 03:09 PM
I'm sorry but this is now ridiculous.
5 bolts vs 6 bolts, does not equal same pattern.
Different timing pointer all together.
This does not equal same cover.
However, I have no dog in this fight. Have at it.
5 bolts vs 6 bolts, does not equal same pattern.
Different timing pointer all together.
This does not equal same cover.
However, I have no dog in this fight. Have at it.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/20/10 01:44 AM
Quote:
I'm sorry but this is now ridiculous.
5 bolts vs 6 bolts, does not equal same pattern.
Different timing pointer all together.
This does not equal same cover.
However, I have no dog in this fight. Have at it.
i feel the same way.
Posted By: 52savoy
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/20/10 03:49 AM
Enough already....stop the insults.
Posted By: big ed
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machine - 06/21/10 05:36 PM
hey just got my cover after reading thru all the drama...I have to say its far from a chinese piece fit is perfect and its a pretty beefy work of art cam changes will be easy I got the black anodized one looks like the one the pros use just need to make the rest of my stuff look good...Emailed him and it sounds like he has alot more stuff on the table for big block mopars.
Posted By: moparniac
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/21/10 08:15 PM
Quote:
ANDYF - All i was / am trying to do is improve something which i purchased and was not satisfied with.
see you just noted you stole his idea! and since you politely said andys stuff was junk I guess its okay then?
Posted By: hemi471
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/21/10 09:32 PM
Seems like a lot of money for a part that you can hardly see once the motor is together. I'll keep using the stock ones, they work just fine!
Posted By: rowin4
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/22/10 03:13 AM
I hardly think Andyf's cover is junk, but in all fairness, Andy must have bought a cover that wasn't up to his liking and set forth to make one to what he thought was the perfect cover. Now this guy buy's Andy's cover, makes a few changes, put's Andy's cover up for sale, and stated it was Andy's cover at a lower price [ oh, I sold that one but I got another that looks almost the same ] Kinda shady advertising in my book. 
Posted By: w7smallblock
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/22/10 03:28 AM
Why all the crying over someone build or improving on something that already exits? Maybe because he's not a member or wasn't until recently. Then if this is wrong why don't everyone crying sell their world or keith black or what every block they have since they improved on something that already exits. Probably because its better and strong than what they had before. 
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/22/10 09:51 AM
We have no dog in this fight either,but unless Andy has the registered patant rights to his cover or any of his manufactured parts anyone can build,sale or claim the right to repop knockoffs as long as they don't claim or identify it as Andys'To prevail in a court challenge would be expensive and arguious.If it's not protected under patant infringment laws then he's shtz out of luck.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/22/10 10:03 AM
Quote:
... (look at
the Chinese)they dont even reverse engineer it, they
just down right copy it
And do a pisspoor job of it in the process
Posted By: Stanton
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/22/10 12:57 PM
My brother once worked for a company that did this - reverse engineering then manufacturing. To add insult to injury they very often returned for refund the item they'd completely disassembled and reassembled!
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/22/10 04:43 PM
You can't stop or control someone from making a product like or similar to your product,you can control how it is marketed or sold if you have secured the patant rights.If you have the rights,you can demand (through court action)royalities from the sales of such goods or products.I would be careful of statements made on the internet by all parties involved,they can come back and bite you in the azz later in a civil court action.Though I feel for Andy and his hard work,we find our self in a country based on free enterprize and free markets.If someone wants to make a product and it serves it's function and is more affordable then we all benifit.The more choises and the more competitive the market is benifits the consumer. Just look at a the mopar head choises we have now 
Same situation there. Just like it's just another head,it's just another timing cover.Some one else invented the cover,others just improved on it and will continue as long as there is a demand.Thanks to anyone who builds parts for Mopars and thanks for choises in parts and price.I'll stick with low cost Indys' and modify them however it suits and me and if I need anything better I'am going gear drive or belt drive.At $300 a cover I would spend a little more and get a lot more than a pretty cover.It's only a cover and not like your getting gears,chains, belts and hardware.Heck a $30 chrome cover will serve 80% of everyones needs.
Just look at a the mopar head choises we have now Same situation there. Just like it's just another head,it's just another timing cover.Some one else invented the cover,others just improved on it and will continue as long as there is a demand.Thanks to anyone who builds parts for Mopars and thanks for choises in parts and price.I'll stick with low cost Indys' and modify them however it suits and me and if I need anything better I'am going gear drive or belt drive.At $300 a cover I would spend a little more and get a lot more than a pretty cover.It's only a cover and not like your getting gears,chains, belts and hardware.Heck a $30 chrome cover will serve 80% of everyones needs.
Posted By: 71TA
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/22/10 11:54 PM
I've got an ORIGINAL AndyF BB timing chain cover on my motor. Very satified with it and glad to purchase from another Moparts member.
And shouldn't a company called "cleveland speed" be making FERD parts
And shouldn't a company called "cleveland speed" be making FERD parts
Posted By: jamesc
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/23/10 12:06 AM
Quote:
if I need anything better I'am going gear drive or belt drive.At $300 a cover I would spend a little more and get a lot more than a pretty cover.
my thought's exactly. by the time you pay for a nice timing set which may or may not include attaching hardware and/or thrust control then buy a billet cover you're getting close to the cost of a milodon gear drive
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/23/10 12:16 AM
There's no question of the quality of Andys parts and his cost is not being questioned,just stating comments on the issues,the choises and my views.I'am not trying to influence anyones decision as to where to buy and how much to pay.Since the issue was brought to the site,then expect and respect others views or keep it off the site.There are other ways of communicating,phone,email,pm or etc.It's no ones business till it goes public,then everyone has the right to their views,good or bad.It'a all fun and games untill someone gets pissed off. 
Posted By: HEMI472
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/23/10 03:41 AM
It's no ones business till it goes public,then everyone has the right to their views,good or bad.It'a all fun and games untill someone gets pissed off.
good advise everyone should read this.
but someone always gets pissed off.
good advise everyone should read this.
but someone always gets pissed off.
Posted By: mopardamo
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/23/10 05:24 AM
Hello,
Some of the comments are partially true. What I see blatantly missing in areas is ethics in this post and any other about this type of controversy. OH yea. Legally we can do this and that and avoid the legal wrongdoing. I think this is humanities undoing. What the heck does it have to do with right and wrong? Have we degraded ourselves to such low standards! That was rhetorical, I know the answer.
But it is ok to buy a part to SEPCIFICALLY COPY it because it is the best that is out there, call it less than desirable when we get caught because it fits our purpose, and then duplicate it with some changes to circumvent the legal implications. Then we can all say it is just our opinion and be legally correct. Just because it IS part of our system of government does not make it acceptable to be a THEIF FROM AN ETHICAL POINT OF VIEW. Where the hell is ethics in America? That is the core subject of this thread since it turned rough and no one has spoken a word about this root concern. If Americans would stand up for what is Just and Good without referring to the law and how they can circumvent an issue or how someone is correct because it is allowed by the law I think we Americans would benefit greatly. Dam’ it how did we get to such low places in our thinking.
Damon
Some of the comments are partially true. What I see blatantly missing in areas is ethics in this post and any other about this type of controversy. OH yea. Legally we can do this and that and avoid the legal wrongdoing. I think this is humanities undoing. What the heck does it have to do with right and wrong? Have we degraded ourselves to such low standards! That was rhetorical, I know the answer.
But it is ok to buy a part to SEPCIFICALLY COPY it because it is the best that is out there, call it less than desirable when we get caught because it fits our purpose, and then duplicate it with some changes to circumvent the legal implications. Then we can all say it is just our opinion and be legally correct. Just because it IS part of our system of government does not make it acceptable to be a THEIF FROM AN ETHICAL POINT OF VIEW. Where the hell is ethics in America? That is the core subject of this thread since it turned rough and no one has spoken a word about this root concern. If Americans would stand up for what is Just and Good without referring to the law and how they can circumvent an issue or how someone is correct because it is allowed by the law I think we Americans would benefit greatly. Dam’ it how did we get to such low places in our thinking.
Damon
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/23/10 05:58 AM
on my to-do list;
remember to get mad at all those H beam rod manufacturers for "stealing" the design, supposedly improving it, and then selling them to me.
remember to get mad at the manufacturers of cylinder heads like edelbrock, 440 source, pro comp etc. for all the same reasons.
remember to get mad at all the crankshaft manufacturers for,
awe heck, this post could get really long, but whose got the time...
i just don't see what all the fuss is about. somebody makes a timing cover and the world is coming to an end. does that mean that anybody that makes a billet timing cover is stealing somebody else's design, even though the only similarity is that it has an access plate and it's billit aluminum, even though the rest of the cover looks and is totally different?
looking at it from a different perspective, how many times have you purchased something and thought to yourself, "if i would have built it, i would have made it differently"?????
remember to get mad at all those H beam rod manufacturers for "stealing" the design, supposedly improving it, and then selling them to me.
remember to get mad at the manufacturers of cylinder heads like edelbrock, 440 source, pro comp etc. for all the same reasons.
remember to get mad at all the crankshaft manufacturers for,
awe heck, this post could get really long, but whose got the time...
i just don't see what all the fuss is about. somebody makes a timing cover and the world is coming to an end. does that mean that anybody that makes a billet timing cover is stealing somebody else's design, even though the only similarity is that it has an access plate and it's billit aluminum, even though the rest of the cover looks and is totally different?
looking at it from a different perspective, how many times have you purchased something and thought to yourself, "if i would have built it, i would have made it differently"?????
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 06/23/10 08:15 AM
Quote:
Hello,
Some of the comments are partially true. What I see blatantly missing in areas is ethics in this post and any other about this type of controversy. OH yea. Legally we can do this and that and avoid the legal wrongdoing. I think this is humanities undoing. What the heck does it have to do with right and wrong? Have we degraded ourselves to such low standards! That was rhetorical, I know the answer.
But it is ok to buy a part to SEPCIFICALLY COPY it because it is the best that is out there, call it less than desirable when we get caught because it fits our purpose, and then duplicate it with some changes to circumvent the legal implications. Then we can all say it is just our opinion and be legally correct. Just because it IS part of our system of government does not make it acceptable to be a THEIF FROM AN ETHICAL POINT OF VIEW. Where the hell is ethics in America? That is the core subject of this thread since it turned rough and no one has spoken a word about this root concern. If Americans would stand up for what is Just and Good without referring to the law and how they can circumvent an issue or how someone is correct because it is allowed by the law I think we Americans would benefit greatly. Dam’ it how did we get to such low places in our thinking.
Damon
Good gosh Gerty
Lets not forget how our great country got started:lies,cheating,slavery,persicution,stealing from the native Americans,revolution and out right murder,just to name a few.That someone feels they got screwed by some one maybe we should hang them like we did horse thiefs.All this drama for what?It's the American way"competitive free market.If you want to be pissed at some one look at our great president who is screwing everyone of us,now that's a cause for revolution not a billit timing cover. 
I agree with Dram,"get over it" and move on.
Posted By: Chilort
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 08/24/10 06:11 PM
Thanks guys! I am using this thread (edit for language, grammar, etc.) in an intro to business class I am teaching to college sophomores and juniors about how free markets work.
I will say that these are some very good points and that we all don't see eye to eye is pretty neat when you look at it from an outside perspective. Some will feel a need to be super-vigilant-ethical while others will skirt by bending every law they can to maximize their own profits.
A chapter that quickly follows this discussion deals with business ethics but even there, there aren't any black and white answers. While the law maybe should be the absolute minimum requirement it doesn't help set what the standard "should" be. Let's also not forget that not all laws are just.
And patents are cool but they are a government controlled monopoly to help protect innovators for some short time but 1) getting a patent is expensive and 2) defending a patent is expensive. Patents are the opposite of free market but we sanction them here so that individuals will make the risky choice to try to develop new products. Without that protection then people are less likely to make that risky choice. But at a philosophical level, patents are anti-free market. How many of you ever thought you would openly admit to supporting anti-free market principles?
I will say that these are some very good points and that we all don't see eye to eye is pretty neat when you look at it from an outside perspective. Some will feel a need to be super-vigilant-ethical while others will skirt by bending every law they can to maximize their own profits.
A chapter that quickly follows this discussion deals with business ethics but even there, there aren't any black and white answers. While the law maybe should be the absolute minimum requirement it doesn't help set what the standard "should" be. Let's also not forget that not all laws are just.
And patents are cool but they are a government controlled monopoly to help protect innovators for some short time but 1) getting a patent is expensive and 2) defending a patent is expensive. Patents are the opposite of free market but we sanction them here so that individuals will make the risky choice to try to develop new products. Without that protection then people are less likely to make that risky choice. But at a philosophical level, patents are anti-free market. How many of you ever thought you would openly admit to supporting anti-free market principles?
Posted By: BradH
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 08/24/10 07:30 PM
Quote:
Where the hell is ethics in America?
I wouldn't even know where to begin...
BTW, I have purchased an AR Engineering billet timing cover since this debacle of a thread was started.
Posted By: mac56
Re: new b/rb timing cover by clevland speed and machin - 08/24/10 09:47 PM
Here it goes again 