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440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD??

Posted By: domingo

440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 05/31/10 09:31 PM

Has anybody used these heads?

Any comments?

Are they good, bad?

Any issues?

How do they compare to the Edelbrocks?

Id' buy eddies but the thing is they dont look anywhere close to OEM. The stealths look very stockish once painted...
Posted By: dwayne welder

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 05/31/10 09:44 PM

depends on how much power you want to make. they look like 906 castings, only in aluminum. i haven"t flowed one yet, so not nowing how good they are.
Posted By: Thor500

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 05/31/10 10:06 PM

Bolted a set on out of the box, work great! Whats not to like?
Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 05/31/10 10:11 PM

IMO they are a great replacement head, and mkae good power too. On the same note, I dont think they are a race head, and not a option in a race type appication....
Of coarse these are just my opinions.
Posted By: Thor500

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 05/31/10 10:31 PM

I have another set coming cnc'd for my 500" stroker, 12:1 590 cam, I'm expecting easy 10.50's
Posted By: MikeyT

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 05/31/10 10:32 PM

I really like mine, they work well and really flow well. I think I flowed 274 at .6 inch of lift out of the box, good numbers really helps my 440 breath.

Mike
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 05/31/10 10:34 PM

Right OOTB ? .... some people have suggested that you check everything.
Posted By: dwayne welder

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 05/31/10 10:42 PM

274@.6 sounds like a good bowl ported, and gasket match set of 906. I woulden wast my money on cnc, porting on these heads period!
Posted By: ireland383

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 05/31/10 11:18 PM

Had my machinist check them over and he was impressed. Bolted them on and . I probably could use a little more cam with them.
Posted By: moparniac

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 05/31/10 11:32 PM

use the search function for anything 440source related. people are tired of arguing over the overall quality that comes from there
Posted By: Thor500

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 05/31/10 11:37 PM

Quote:

[Email]274@.6[/Email] sounds like a good bowl ported, and gasket match set of 906. I woulden wast my money on cnc, porting on these heads period!



Modern cylinder head cnc's them, I think they know what there doing!
Posted By: DusterKid

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 12:05 AM

used a set for a yr now and work great.
Posted By: Bob_Coomer

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 12:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

[Email]274@.6[/Email] sounds like a good bowl ported, and gasket match set of 906. I woulden wast my money on cnc, porting on these heads period!



Modern cylinder head cnc's them, I think they know what there doing!



I know how they work, I purchased a set of Eddy's not long after they came out. The actually did check out OK for Use OOTB. Big heavy 69 Coronet totally stock suspension and gearing, bench seat went mid 7's in the 8th mile, so I know how they can work, seeing how they are direct copy's.
Im just saying they have cracking problems, I can only imagine cnc port work would make them much worse.
This isnt hear say, My best friend has a set on his mud truck, they are one season old...Both heads leak water like a sprinkler.
Im not saying he done everything correct with this engine, but I dont see Indy heads, or Edelbrock heads cracking under race conditions.
Thats all I am saying.....
great for a little street car, or daily driver, they wont go on anything that makes more than 500hp in my book.
They would get looked over, just like any other head for that matter.
Fact is the castings are not that great.
The material is soft. Valves, retainers and springs are junk, and wouldnt run these OOTB on one of my engines if they were offered for FREE..just to do this.
Im not trying to make this a 440 Source Bash fest.
Im just saying they are ment for a replacement head..They work well, and do work well even ported. But the casting problems and parts, and machine work can and do cause major problems....
Just the facts.
Posted By: Thor500

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 12:58 AM

Thats the first instance I've heard of cracking. I'd like to think thats an isolated incident. My ootb set were from the first batch they sold.
Posted By: '72CudaRacer

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 01:02 AM

I put a set on my 440 this year. So far so good. 3200 lb E body, 11.5" MT tires, SS leaf springs, 13.5+ comp, .590 MP cam. 60' 1.39, 6.59 1/8, 103+ MPH (in East Tenn hills, 1300 ft above sea level). Didn't get to put it on dyno, but works out to approx 585 HP?

Brian Dunnigan

Attached picture 6013502-IMG_0830.JPG
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 01:09 AM

Quote:

Thats the first instance I've heard of cracking. I'd like to think thats an isolated incident. My ootb set were from the first batch they sold.




I know of 3 or 4 people who have/had stealths. 2 of those people were making roughly 575-600 hp and both had issues with cracking. Heads were returned on both instances. Both now have Eddy's
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 01:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Thats the first instance I've heard of cracking. I'd like to think thats an isolated incident. My ootb set were from the first batch they sold.




I know of 3 or 4 people who have/had stealths. 2 of those people were making roughly 575-600 hp and both had issues with cracking. Heads were returned on both instances. Both now have Eddy's




Well I'll have to cross my fingers then. I've also got a set of first production run stealths. No problems yet but little miles on them so far. Will be in that hp range in the future so time will tell.
Posted By: VernMotor

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 01:51 AM

There been at lease 5 sets posted on this web site alone that been cracked..I have seen 2 sets myself that been cracked... like it been said..if they do not crack..they would make a nice replacement head..They dam sure ain't no race head.
Posted By: 440sourcedotcom

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 04:12 AM

Quote:

There been at lease 5 sets posted on this web site alone that been cracked..I have seen 2 sets myself that been cracked... like it been said..if they do not crack..they would make a nice replacement head..They dam sure ain't no race head.




We did have one isolated production run last year that had a problem with the aluminum that made the heads more prone to cracking. The problem was solved shortly after it was discovered, and we have sold over two thousand heads since that particular production batch, and not a single one has had a cracking problem.

Every single customer that has called us with a cracked head has had it replaced under warranty at no charge, and we will continue to do this as long as possible.

Again, any cracks were an isolated incident from one production run. Please understand that any manufacturer, no matter how well known of a "name brand" or no matter expensive or inexpensive their products are, they will occasionally have issues which need to be corrected. This is the reason why reputable manufacturers offer a warranty against defects in manufacturing for a specified period of time after purchase.
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 07:46 AM

I have a set for a future build and castings look really good. The springs/retainers should be good for a hydraulic cam with around 0.500"+ lift?
The pros of these heads:
#1 - They look like a stock head (no other aluminum head does.)
#2 - They fit like a stock head (straight plugs allow using manifolds or headers designed for stock heads. The angled plugs of the Edelbrocks can cause problems with headers not designed for the angled plugs.)
#3 - Cost and performance.

The cons:
#1 - I guess they are not made in the USA?
#2 - The large diameter chamber needs a larger bore size head gasket?
#3 - Possable quality issue on some early heads? (just to be fair, my Stealth heads castings looked better than my Edelbrock Victors, and I did crack the Edelbrock heads, so any company can have problems?)

I also know of at least three people who have been running the Stealth heads for a year or more with no problems
Posted By: therocks

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 12:11 PM

Mine are going on their third year.My 440 runs 12.5 Ross domes and street and strip.I did upgrade the locks retainers and springs which I would have done with Eddys.Just had to back cut the valves and cleaned them up a bit.Rocky
Posted By: BobR

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 01:24 PM

I'd certainly(and have) buy a 440Source engine kit.I would not buy these heads-crack prone or not-for any kind of race car. For a street deal, fine, but the flow numbers coming out of these heads aren't race car worthy type figures.
Posted By: moparmanjames

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 03:37 PM

I guess I'm confused, I see a lot of bracket cars at the track running stock heads, I see stock eliminator cars running stock heads, and I'm guessing these Stealth heads flow better than stock from what I have read.
Why would they not be race worthy if they flow better than stock both out of the box and ported?
I would think it would depend on what you wanted to do and how fast you want to go. I see no reason why a set these CNC ported Stealth heads wouldn't be fine for a 3500lb bracket car running 10's all day long.
Posted By: domingo

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 08:03 PM

I have a friend who had his stealth heads crack too....he was running high compression. like 13:1 something like that.

thats why im asking.
Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 08:14 PM

Quote:

I have a friend who had his stealth heads crack too....he was running high compression. like 13:1 something like that.

thats why im asking.




Sounds like all he has to do is send 'em back to brandon for some good ones. Thats cool of Brandon to admitt to the problem, i'm sure he will make good on his promise. I bet ther are zillions of guys who have had no problems with them, and I still want a set for a future low deck project I'm working on.
Posted By: BobR

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 08:25 PM

Quote:

I guess I'm confused, I see a lot of bracket cars at the track running stock heads, I see stock eliminator cars running stock heads, and I'm guessing these Stealth heads flow better than stock from what I have read.
Why would they not be race worthy if they flow better than stock both out of the box and ported?
I would think it would depend on what you wanted to do and how fast you want to go. I see no reason why a set these CNC ported Stealth heads wouldn't be fine for a 3500lb bracket car running 10's all day long.




I guess that all depends on how fast you want to go. Mid 10's to me isn't what it used to be. Compare flow numbers of maxxed out Stealths to almost anything Indy makes but especially their top shelf stuff. Now compare this stuff to the better Ford and Chevy heads. I stand by what I said.
Posted By: moparmafia

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 08:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I guess I'm confused, I see a lot of bracket cars at the track running stock heads, I see stock eliminator cars running stock heads, and I'm guessing these Stealth heads flow better than stock from what I have read.
Why would they not be race worthy if they flow better than stock both out of the box and ported?
I would think it would depend on what you wanted to do and how fast you want to go. I see no reason why a set these CNC ported Stealth heads wouldn't be fine for a 3500lb bracket car running 10's all day long.




I guess that all depends on how fast you want to go. Mid 10's to me isn't what it used to be. Compare flow numbers of maxxed out Stealths to almost anything Indy makes but especially their top shelf stuff. Now compare this stuff to the better Ford and Chevy heads. I stand by what I said.




i think most people get caught up on flow numbers and dyno numbers. we might not have the most peak flow but the stock mopar heads have very good velocity and make good power. i have ran mopars my whole adult life and i have outrun many a ford and chevies that have higher flow numbers and an impressive dyno sheet. my very mild 1977 400 with stock 452 heads was out running my friends 93 mustang with edelbrock heads cam and intake. but man did his flow sheet look good. lol
Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 09:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I guess I'm confused, I see a lot of bracket cars at the track running stock heads, I see stock eliminator cars running stock heads, and I'm guessing these Stealth heads flow better than stock from what I have read.
Why would they not be race worthy if they flow better than stock both out of the box and ported?
I would think it would depend on what you wanted to do and how fast you want to go. I see no reason why a set these CNC ported Stealth heads wouldn't be fine for a 3500lb bracket car running 10's all day long.




I guess that all depends on how fast you want to go. Mid 10's to me isn't what it used to be. Compare flow numbers of maxxed out Stealths to almost anything Indy makes but especially their top shelf stuff. Now compare this stuff to the better Ford and Chevy heads. I stand by what I said.




440Source does not claim that it is a race head. That is totally NOT its purpose. Its a stock replacement(almost identical)and is supposed to make a "stock looking" motor faster than it looks. And I think it succeeds for its intended purpose...plus, it is cheap. This may tempt alot of guys to use it for bracket or other limited type of racing. Just like the Eddy RPM. The flow numbers are pretty much the same for both. The RPM may look more like a race head but its not much better than a maxed out 906 iron head ..just like the Stealth. The BB Chev head, by its design, is an inherently a good flowing head just like a Hemi. So, you almost have to compare the BB mopar to a SB chevy...thats what it most closely resembles and the power can go from the most wimpy to fairly muscular...but not until serious changes are made in the design..ports, valve size and length etc etc,. Then you have a head that does not even look stock any more. The ports are much bigger and raised, the plugs are relocated and the head itself is taller and wider.
Posted By: 440sourcedotcom

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 09:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I guess I'm confused, I see a lot of bracket cars at the track running stock heads, I see stock eliminator cars running stock heads, and I'm guessing these Stealth heads flow better than stock from what I have read.
Why would they not be race worthy if they flow better than stock both out of the box and ported?
I would think it would depend on what you wanted to do and how fast you want to go. I see no reason why a set these CNC ported Stealth heads wouldn't be fine for a 3500lb bracket car running 10's all day long.




I guess that all depends on how fast you want to go. Mid 10's to me isn't what it used to be. Compare flow numbers of maxxed out Stealths to almost anything Indy makes but especially their top shelf stuff. Now compare this stuff to the better Ford and Chevy heads. I stand by what I said.




440Source does not claim that it is a race head. That is totally NOT its purpose. Its a stock replacement(almost identical)and is supposed to make a "stock looking" motor faster than it looks. And I think it succeeds for its intended purpose...plus, it is cheap. This may tempt alot of guys to use it for bracket or other limited type of racing. Just like the Eddy RPM. The flow numbers are pretty much the same for both. The RPM may look more like a race head but its not much better than a maxed out 906 iron head ..just like the Stealth. The BB Chev head, by its design, is an inherently a good flowing head just like a Hemi. So, you almost have to compare the BB mopar to a SB chevy...thats what it most closely resembles and the power can go from the most wimpy to fairly muscular...but not until serious changes are made in the design..ports, valve size and length etc etc,. Then you have a head that does not even look stock any more. The ports are much bigger and raised, the plugs are relocated and the head itself is taller and wider.




When comparing flow numbers from different companies, you are not comparing apples to apples. It is well known in the industry that certain companies greatly inflate their flow numbers, while others are much more accurate. The ONLY way to evaluate flow numbers is if all the heads you are comparing are flowed on the same calibrated flow bench, bolted to the same fixture (bore size), and flowed by the same person at the same time.

Bottom line is, several dozen of our CNC'd stealth heads have been dyno'd on 500+ CI engines. They make in the area of 675-725 horsepower everytime like clockwork.

We will be the first to tell you, if you are looking for 750+ HP, these are not the heads for you. If you are looking for 700/725 HP or less, (generally in the 9 second range for most cars) then they will be a good option, as they have been proven without a doubt to be capable of these power levels.
Posted By: 70RT Charger

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 09:52 PM

Im thinking about building a 512 stroker from 440 source and they recommend running the stealth heads or the Elderbrock Victor.I was told the same thing about the Stealth heads cracking,so whats the difference between the eddy Victor and the eddy rpm.I was told to go with a eddy victor?
Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 10:03 PM

Quote:

I'd certainly(and have) buy a 440Source engine kit.I would not buy these heads-crack prone or not-for any kind of race car. For a street deal, fine, but the flow numbers coming out of these heads aren't race car worthy type figures.




Bob, I do understand where you are coming from(from other posts you have made)and I agree that the term "race head" should be confined to heads that have some of the modification I mentioned in my other post. In other words, they are considered exotic. Examples would be original B1, 440-1, Predator, B1-TS, Brewer, 426 Hemi..these heads are all capable of 1000+ HP. Even the Victor and mopar Stage VI are more "exotic" than "stock" so should be consider race heads. as well, imho.
Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 10:04 PM

Quote:

Im thinking about building a 512 stroker from 440 source and they recommend running the stealth heads or the Elderbrock Victor.I was told the same thing about the Stealth heads cracking,so whats the difference between the eddy Victor and the eddy rpm.I was told to go with a eddy victor?




about 100 HP!
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 10:10 PM

Quote:



Bottom line is, several dozen of our CNC'd stealth heads have been dyno'd on 500+ CI engines. They make in the area of 675-725 horsepower everytime like clockwork.






CNCed ? .. how about the-best OOTB ??

And what would your grocery-list on that motor be?
Posted By: 440sourcedotcom

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 10:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:



Bottom line is, several dozen of our CNC'd stealth heads have been dyno'd on 500+ CI engines. They make in the area of 675-725 horsepower everytime like clockwork.






CNCed ? .. how about the-best OOTB ??

And what would your grocery-list on that motor be?




For the motors we are talking about, we are talking 500+ cubes, a cam at least .565+ lift, usually pump gas (10 to 10.5:1 compression - a few of the engines have been 12 or 13 to 1), roller rockers, 950-1050 carb, etc. Obviously, components must be matched correctly, and the engine must be tuned correctly, but there's no magic to it.

Out of the box, (non CNC version) most guys are making 540-560 HP with similar internal components as described above.

If you take the well known formula of CFM x .257 x number of cylinders, these horsepower numbers quoted are within the range of this formula, based on the CFM numbers we publish for our heads. This stuff is not rocket science and there's no mysteries to it, it's pretty simple and straightforward.
Posted By: moparmanjames

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 11:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I guess I'm confused, I see a lot of bracket cars at the track running stock heads, I see stock eliminator cars running stock heads, and I'm guessing these Stealth heads flow better than stock from what I have read.
Why would they not be race worthy if they flow better than stock both out of the box and ported?
I would think it would depend on what you wanted to do and how fast you want to go. I see no reason why a set these CNC ported Stealth heads wouldn't be fine for a 3500lb bracket car running 10's all day long.




I guess that all depends on how fast you want to go. Mid 10's to me isn't what it used to be. Compare flow numbers of maxxed out Stealths to almost anything Indy makes but especially their top shelf stuff. Now compare this stuff to the better Ford and Chevy heads. I stand by what I said.




So basically you agree that they are fine for a mid 10 second bracket car or slower, yes?
It seems that 10 seconds or slower is what 70% of the people are running at the track, basically most of Pro Bracket along with sportsman/street.

These are race cars too you know.

BTW I have a set of maxxed out Indy SR's that flow around 345 and I love them too.
Posted By: moparmanjames

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 11:35 PM

Quote:



When comparing flow numbers from different companies, you are not comparing apples to apples. It is well known in the industry that certain companies greatly inflate their flow numbers, while others are much more accurate. The ONLY way to evaluate flow numbers is if all the heads you are comparing are flowed on the same calibrated flow bench, bolted to the same fixture (bore size), and flowed by the same person at the same time.

Bottom line is, several dozen of our CNC'd stealth heads have been dyno'd on 500+ CI engines. They make in the area of 675-725 horsepower everytime like clockwork.

We will be the first to tell you, if you are looking for 750+ HP, these are not the heads for you. If you are looking for 700/725 HP or less, (generally in the 9 second range for most cars) then they will be a good option, as they have been proven without a doubt to be capable of these power levels.




Nice numbers, do you guys plan on offering a raised port/longer valve head anytime soon? Thanks
Posted By: 440sourcedotcom

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/01/10 11:59 PM

Quote:



Nice numbers, do you guys plan on offering a raised port/longer valve head anytime soon? Thanks




Yes, our Stealth stage II heads are out of design and development and are currently in the pattern/tooling production stage. They may hit the market by the end of the year.

They will use an offset rocker to get rid of the "pushrod turn", but still have the exterior factory look and form factor (no cast in "intake spacers, raised valve covers, etc).

As far as flow numbers, we're getting peak numbers of about 325 cfm from them out of the box. On our same bench, out of the box victors flowed about 330, so they are holding their own with victors out of the box, however because of the raised port and longer valve design of the victors, the victors should have more potential with all out porting then our Stealth stage II. But we are confident the Stealth stage II should easily be an 800-850HP capable head.
Posted By: B1Fish540

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/02/10 12:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Nice numbers, do you guys plan on offering a raised port/longer valve head anytime soon? Thanks




Yes, our Stealth stage II heads are out of design and development and are currently in the pattern/tooling production stage. They may hit the market by the end of the year.

They will use an offset rocker to get rid of the "pushrod turn", but still have the exterior factory look and form factor (no cast in "intake spacers, raised valve covers, etc).

As far as flow numbers, we're getting peak numbers of about 325 cfm from them out of the box. On our same bench, out of the box victors flowed about 330, so they are holding their own with victors out of the box, however because of the raised port and longer valve design of the victors, the victors should have more potential with all out porting then our Stealth stage II. But we are confident the Stealth stage II should easily be an 800-850HP capable head.




Cool, will the price be comparable to the Pro Comp victors? They are about $1200, CNCed.
Posted By: cudadoug

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/02/10 12:10 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I guess I'm confused, I see a lot of bracket cars at the track running stock heads, I see stock eliminator cars running stock heads, and I'm guessing these Stealth heads flow better than stock from what I have read.
Why would they not be race worthy if they flow better than stock both out of the box and ported?
I would think it would depend on what you wanted to do and how fast you want to go. I see no reason why a set these CNC ported Stealth heads wouldn't be fine for a 3500lb bracket car running 10's all day long.




I guess that all depends on how fast you want to go. Mid 10's to me isn't what it used to be. Compare flow numbers of maxxed out Stealths to almost anything Indy makes but especially their top shelf stuff. Now compare this stuff to the better Ford and Chevy heads. I stand by what I said.




i think most people get caught up on flow numbers and dyno numbers. we might not have the most peak flow but the stock mopar heads have very good velocity and make good power. i have ran mopars my whole adult life and i have outrun many a ford and chevies that have higher flow numbers and an impressive dyno sheet. my very mild 1977 400 with stock 452 heads was out running my friends 93 mustang with edelbrock heads cam and intake. but man did his flow sheet look good. lol




I would agree 100% with this statement. I once ran a TRW flat top 440 (12+ years ago) going 10.30s @ 128 with 906 heads (263 peak CFM) at 3250-ish lbs. All of the "experts" said "no way, gotta be a stroker, where's the bottle"...I heard it all. Head flow, is just that: head flow, which is PART of the overall combo...
Posted By: BobR

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/02/10 12:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I guess I'm confused, I see a lot of bracket cars at the track running stock heads, I see stock eliminator cars running stock heads, and I'm guessing these Stealth heads flow better than stock from what I have read.
Why would they not be race worthy if they flow better than stock both out of the box and ported?
I would think it would depend on what you wanted to do and how fast you want to go. I see no reason why a set these CNC ported Stealth heads wouldn't be fine for a 3500lb bracket car running 10's all day long.




I guess that all depends on how fast you want to go. Mid 10's to me isn't what it used to be. Compare flow numbers of maxxed out Stealths to almost anything Indy makes but especially their top shelf stuff. Now compare this stuff to the better Ford and Chevy heads. I stand by what I said.




440Source does not claim that it is a race head. That is totally NOT its purpose. Its a stock replacement(almost identical)and is supposed to make a "stock looking" motor faster than it looks. And I think it succeeds for its intended purpose...plus, it is cheap. This may tempt alot of guys to use it for bracket or other limited type of racing. Just like the Eddy RPM. The flow numbers are pretty much the same for both. The RPM may look more like a race head but its not much better than a maxed out 906 iron head ..just like the Stealth. The BB Chev head, by its design, is an inherently a good flowing head just like a Hemi. So, you almost have to compare the BB mopar to a SB chevy...thats what it most closely resembles and the power can go from the most wimpy to fairly muscular...but not until serious changes are made in the design..ports, valve size and length etc etc,. Then you have a head that does not even look stock any more. The ports are much bigger and raised, the plugs are relocated and the head itself is taller and wider.




I agree.
Posted By: BobR

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/02/10 12:40 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I guess I'm confused, I see a lot of bracket cars at the track running stock heads, I see stock eliminator cars running stock heads, and I'm guessing these Stealth heads flow better than stock from what I have read.
Why would they not be race worthy if they flow better than stock both out of the box and ported?
I would think it would depend on what you wanted to do and how fast you want to go. I see no reason why a set these CNC ported Stealth heads wouldn't be fine for a 3500lb bracket car running 10's all day long.




I guess that all depends on how fast you want to go. Mid 10's to me isn't what it used to be. Compare flow numbers of maxxed out Stealths to almost anything Indy makes but especially their top shelf stuff. Now compare this stuff to the better Ford and Chevy heads. I stand by what I said.




So basically you agree that they are fine for a mid 10 second bracket car or slower, yes?
It seems that 10 seconds or slower is what 70% of the people are running at the track, basically most of Pro Bracket along with sportsman/street.

These are race cars too you know.

BTW I have a set of maxxed out Indy SR's that flow around 345 and I love them too.




Can't argue with that. Just realize that with the Stealths there isn't much room for growth and there won't be much resale value.
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/02/10 12:42 AM

First of all the Victor is not that great of a head. On my SF-1020, 4.375" fixture, 28" of water the victors went a best of 317 or 319 @ .650". I was not all that thrilled-so I cut and cut and cut,,, etc. I managed a peak of 357 cfm after many hours of work @ .700-.750" lift. So this engine went onto our Sf-902 and we struggled to make 720 hp and 652 ft/lbs from 471 cubes on pump fuel. To make a long story short the Victors have left a foul taste in my mouth and without the benefit of 13-1+ compression they would have a hard time cresting 800HP on a realistic dyno. As a matter of fact I have a 512 combo going together right now that will have some Stealth heads on it that flow 284-288 on our bench. It will have a hydro flat tappet cam 9.5 to 1 and I expect 550-570 hp @ 5300rpm. The Stealth heads are what they are! A LOT better than 906/452/346 OEM cast junk (oh and inexpensive). J.Rob
Posted By: BobR

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/02/10 12:43 AM

Quote:

First of all the Victor is not that great of a head. On my SF-1020, 4.375" fixture, 28" of water the victors went a best of 317 or 319 @ .650". I was not all that thrilled-so I cut and cut and cut,,, etc. I managed a peak of 357 cfm after many hours of work @ .700-.750" lift. So this engine went onto our Sf-902 and we struggled to make 720 hp and 652 ft/lbs from 471 cubes on pump fuel. To make a long story short the Victors have left a foul taste in my mouth and without the benefit of 13-1+ compression they would have a hard time cresting 800HP on a realistic dyno. As a matter of fact I have a 512 combo going together right now that will have some Stealth heads on it that flow 284-288 on our bench. It will have a hydro flat tappet cam 9.5 to 1 and I expect 550-570 hp @ 5300rpm. The Stealth heads are what they are! A LOT better than 906/452/346 OEM cast junk (oh and inexpensive). J.Rob




Great post.
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/02/10 12:47 AM

Quote:

Quote:

First of all the Victor is not that great of a head. On my SF-1020, 4.375" fixture, 28" of water the victors went a best of 317 or 319 @ .650". I was not all that thrilled-so I cut and cut and cut,,, etc. I managed a peak of 357 cfm after many hours of work @ .700-.750" lift. So this engine went onto our Sf-902 and we struggled to make 720 hp and 652 ft/lbs from 471 cubes on pump fuel. To make a long story short the Victors have left a foul taste in my mouth and without the benefit of 13-1+ compression they would have a hard time cresting 800HP on a realistic dyno. As a matter of fact I have a 512 combo going together right now that will have some Stealth heads on it that flow 284-288 on our bench. It will have a hydro flat tappet cam 9.5 to 1 and I expect 550-570 hp @ 5300rpm. The Stealth heads are what they are! A LOT better than 906/452/346 OEM cast junk (oh and inexpensive). J.Rob




Great post.




Are you being facetious Bob?
Posted By: Erik Jones

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 06/02/10 01:01 AM

We have tested the 440 source head and have good results. Pretty good quality for the money. They will never flow the Big numbers that some people claim they need but are a very good upgarde for the money.

I have developed a pretty good upgrade for these heads if anyone is interested. I applied the Same Technology to these heads as we use on our 383/440 Superstock heads and have had great results!

I will be glad to answer any questions!

Erik Jones
www.jonesenginedevelopment.com
661-942-3364
Posted By: 2fast4yourBrain

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 08/30/11 03:01 AM

Quote:



Yes, our Stealth stage II heads are out of design and development and are currently in the pattern/tooling production stage. They may hit the market by the end of the year.





Update???
Posted By: 440sourcedotcom

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 08/30/11 06:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Yes, our Stealth stage II heads are out of design and development and are currently in the pattern/tooling production stage. They may hit the market by the end of the year.





Update???




They are currently IN STOCK, however they are so new we have not yet listed them on our website. Look for them to be "officially" for sale in the next couple weeks. Price should be $995/pair, sold BARE only.
Posted By: moparmanjames

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 08/30/11 06:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



Yes, our Stealth stage II heads are out of design and development and are currently in the pattern/tooling production stage. They may hit the market by the end of the year.





Update???




They are currently IN STOCK, however they are so new we have not yet listed them on our website. Look for them to be "officially" for sale in the next couple weeks. Price should be $995/pair, sold BARE only.




I have had trouble with pushrod clearance on these type of heads when using 1.6 ratio rockers or higher, have you guys made any modifications for this or will I still have to clearance the pushrod holes when using higher ratio rockers?
Thanks!
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 08/30/11 06:45 AM

Quote:



They are currently IN STOCK, however they are so new we have not yet listed them on our website. Look for them to be "officially" for sale in the next couple weeks. Price should be $995/pair, sold BARE only.




Who would you recommend for putting a complete package together? .. and at what cost? ...same valve sizes as #1?
Posted By: 69dart

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 08/30/11 01:57 PM

I'm planning to put a set of Stealths on my old 383 that I rebuild last winter. Hoping for about 450 HP.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 08/30/11 02:33 PM

They are currently IN STOCK, however they are so new we have not yet listed them on our website. Look for them to be "officially" for sale in the next couple weeks. Price should be $995/pair, sold BARE only.




What length valve are you calling out for this new head
so the rockers will work correctly
Posted By: 440sourcedotcom

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 08/30/11 06:57 PM

Our new heads (which will be called "Super Stealth") use a stock length valve. When you get into longer valves, you must raise the valve cover rail by a corresponding length, which also increases the overall exterior height of the head. At that point, it becomes impossible to keep the factory 'look' on the exterior of the casting. Plus, because the bowl area was opened up considerably and port roof was raised as far as possible, we were getting flow numbers that we wanted without feeling we needed to go to longer valves.

On the question of pushrod clearance, the "dog leg" or turn in the intake ports has been almost completely removed in these heads. This requires them to use a .650" offset intake rocker. We chose this offset because it is identical to what the Edelbrock Victor head uses, ensuring there are many rocker arm manufacturers (Harland Sharp) etc, making these. We also carry our own version available on our web site at: http://store.440source.com/650-Offset-Aluminum-Roller-Rockers_shafts-15-Ratio/productinfo/200-1125/

Because of the offset rockers, we had to completely relocate and enlarge the intake pushrod holes. We made the holes as large as we could, and out of all the test engines we used, not a single one had any pushrod clearancing problems. However, (as they say) YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY. You should always do a mockup before final assembly and check for clearancing. Too many factors affect pushrod placement to put an engine together without checking it first. Also, our 1.5 rockers outsell our 1.6's by a factor of at least 10 to 1, so all our test engines were fitted with 1.5 rockers. So using 1.6's would likely increase the chances (if any) that clearancing would be required.

Hope this answers your questions, thanks for your interest. These new heads have been several years in the making. Eventually we hope to have a CNC version available from Jeff.
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 08/30/11 07:03 PM

Projected cost of the total package ?
Posted By: 440sourcedotcom

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 08/30/11 09:12 PM

Quote:

Projected cost of the total package ?




There isn't really a specific "package", although we'd be happy to put together a quote for everything you'll need based on your particular situation.

The only components which are "specific" to these heads are eight .650" offset intake rockers. You can buy these complete as a set, or if you already have rockers, you can still use eight of your standard rockers, plus the standard shafts, holddowns, shims, etc. All you need to buy are the eight individual offset arms themselves. One other fact to mention is that because the rockers are moved over so far, eight of the pushrods will be slightly diagonal, which may require a tiny bit of extra length. In almost all the test engines, we were able to use one of our off the shelf pushrods, but you should always use a checking tool to measure correct pushrod length before ordering pushrods, or get our cut to fit pushrod set, so you don't have to worry about getting the wrong length.

Depending on how much power you want to make from the heads, there are several different ways you can go for the valves. The heads do come with a "production" valve job setup for 2.14 valves, but this valve job is really just a starting point. We expect most people at the minimum will want to do a custom competition valve job along with some bowl cleanup and port matching. For this we do sell nice sets of stainless valves which work great. If you're planning on significantly opening up the ports, you'll most likely want to go with a 2.19 or larger valve. Any big block Chrysler length valves will work.

We expect these heads to run with a healthy camshaft, so you'll want to match the springs to your cam based on the cam manufacturers recommendations, and you'll want to go with some premium 10 deg locks and retainers as well.

All the above reasons are why we only sell these heads bare. They are designed as a head to be built as part of a serious performance engine, not a "bolt on" deal, where you do a head swap in a couple hours and are back on the road after lunch.
Posted By: viperblue72

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 08/30/11 09:22 PM

Brandon,
So these heads will be standard port or max wedge? 75cc chamber, 2.14. 1.81??
Posted By: moparmanjames

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 08/30/11 09:26 PM

Brandon, I didn't see you guys at the last Mopars at the Strip, will you be there next year?
Posted By: kilroy

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 08/30/11 10:29 PM

Have to say the STEALTH 2 actually have me a little excited about a new set of head. No stupid intake spacer cast in, standard gear, 325cfm. COOL!

x2 on the chamber volume and shape

also what about the Intake and Exhaust runners's CC?
Posted By: 440sourcedotcom

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 08/30/11 11:22 PM

We should be at MATS next year. These heads use the same 80cc "closed chamber" design as our standard Stealths, with straight spark plugs. The port window is not max wedge, but it is essentially an enlarged or "port matched" version of a standard port size. Factory spec on port windows is 2.27 x 1.23, and factory heads are usually considerably smaller than this. Our port window size spec is 2.33 x 1.28, although port window size ends up being determined by the size/position of the sand core molds, so they are not accurate to the thousandth by any means.

As far as CFM and port CC's, etc, we are not officially advertising these, because these heads are being sold only as a rough starting point. What your shop does to them, including what size/type of valves used, valve job, level of porting, etc will determine these numbers. We'll see what some cylinder head shops can do and have them advertise their specs and numbers. I'm sure we'll be setting up a partnership with Jeff at Modern for something like this. Once this is setup, we'll publish the numbers and specs he supplies.

Also, these are currently available for purchase. The part number for one bare head is 200-1127, so be sure to order a quantity of two for a set. They are not listed on our web store yet, but they can be ordered over the phone through a salesperson. Cost is $499.95 per head.
Posted By: CSK

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 02/11/12 04:01 AM

the stupid stealths flow the same as the old stealth heads out of the box oh super stealth 267 cfm @ .550
Posted By: SG duster

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 02/11/12 08:38 AM

I would think 267cfm @ only 550" for a short valve head "out of the box" cyl head is quite resonable. what are that at 700"? and what did you get with a bit of port work? the source says they sell them blank so to do what you like with them. its an open envelope
Posted By: BDS871Cuda

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 02/11/12 07:32 PM

Quote:

the stupid stealths flow the same as the old stealth heads out of the box oh super stealth 267 cfm @ .550






You read the ad and 440 source says 875 HP and up
with their stroker kit and their super stealth
heads. You only fool yourself into thinking
how easy it is. You buy a $500 head and you get
a $500 head. Everybody wants the most HP for the
least amount $$$. Super Stealth's 100-150 HP
over regular Stealth heads without a major head
mod like Victor heads over RPM's? REALLY??? !~!

Like I said, you buy a $500 head, you get a $500
head... nothing more nothing less.
Posted By: CSK

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 02/11/12 07:32 PM

thats it they stop @ 550
Posted By: RAMM

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 02/11/12 09:59 PM

Quote:

As a matter of fact I have a 512 combo going together right now that will have some Stealth heads on it that flow 284-288 on our bench. It will have a hydro flat tappet cam 9.5 to 1 and I expect 550-570 hp @ 5300rpm. J.Rob




Just saw this post and the 512 wound up making a whopping 523 hp and 583 ft.lbs. Yeah--I thought that was terrible and it is, although I think the cam and low compression has a major role in that. At least the 65 year old dude that owns it thinks its awesome. I have built '452 headed 451's that exceeed that with not much work at all. IF you just have to have aluminum heads then go for it, if you want to go fast then talk to somebody that knows. J.Rob
Posted By: CSK

Re: 440 source stealth heads: GOOD?? BAD?? - 02/13/12 10:46 PM

ok did a little reshaping on short side ,opened up the roof 320@.600 2.14 valve not bad at all will work on seats for low & mid lift flow & post my results & thats just a little work,will turn off my phone & close the shop doors & see what more i can get note to all these are SUPER STEALTH HEADS FROM 440 SOURCE FOR A STOCK LOOKING HEAD ITS DARN GOOD moral of the story is out of box not so great,just a little grinding & sandpaper roll work,dang good so far, more to come ck
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