Moparts
Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ?
Posted By: The Shocker
Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 04:59 PM
I am into Nostalgia type drags (pre 65) and most of the events that i attend all over are heads up.There are a few that are pushing for a dial in type platform to make it more even .The problem is i and others dont like it .Is there another wat to make it more even ,besides a handicap start? I realise that alot of people make money at it and thats great ,but its just not as fun to watch IMO ,as a heads up deal.I race just for fun and dont really care if i win or not .The guys with the slower (14 second and up cars)are the ones that are pushing for the Bracket thing .Isnt there other ways like weight /cubic inch to handle it better? How did they used to do it back in the day to keep it more fair between these old mixed matched hotrods?In my case with my 11.40 ET Dart i get put into the Comp class.I have a mild stroker 408 with a 750 Carb ,and i am running heads up against 9 and 10 second Big Block ,backhalfed cars ,because im too fast for the other class of Gas/Coupe/Sedan .I am trying along with others to give these guys that put on these events sum ideas on how to make it more even matches...:(
Posted By: Slingshot383
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 05:05 PM
Check out
www.nostalgiaprocomp.com, and see if that's what you're looking for. Great group of racers.
Posted By: MegaDart
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 06:18 PM
Bracket racing is so gay
and the index racing I mean come on
Good luck finding what you are looking for...
perhaps and 11.40 smallblock dart class with 750cfm carb, best 2 out of 3
Posted By: cbarracuda
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 06:44 PM
11 10 9 seg index 3rouns to classified heads up final
Posted By: Leigh
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 06:54 PM
Heads up is a money sponge. However, an idea would be to make the breaks pretty tight i.e., 9.00-9.50, 10.0-10.50 (.50 steps) then turn the tree into green start. This is where the timer starts when the green comes on, thus allowing the lower dollar cars, and drivers who can't go .400 or .500, to figure out where they fit, to compete with the higher dollar, harder leaving money sponges. Since your reaction time is now included in your dial-in, er, I mean your "index", the whole field should tighten up considerably. Me, too much bs, I'll just scribble a different number with my sharpened up shoe polish.
Posted By: camastomcat
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 07:05 PM
Quote:
Bracket racing is so gay
and the index racing I mean come on
Good luck finding what you are looking for...
perhaps and 11.40 smallblock dart class with 750cfm carb, best 2 out of 3
Well, as for bracket racing being gay, it's alot more technical than first the finish line stuff. And class racing is even harder. The reason for brackets and classes is so the one with the most money didn't win every week. So.....you must have alot of money! But some of us don't and still like to compete, at a very high level I might add. Top Sportsman might be a good class for you if you think bracket racing is gay.
Posted By: plasticfantastic
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 08:21 PM
probably not the reply that will be popular, but given the thread title,
i love drag racing, in any form, but heads up racing is not one of my favorites, I'd watch it, (and do on occasion at Milan on the first Friday of each month, <plug plug>) BUT it makes me feel like i'm watching an never ending run of time trials.
not putting it down, because I think there is room for all forms of racing, but I dont see the excitement when someone rolls up in a prostock chassis car, with a mountain motor on nitrous outrun the field by a second or more.
To me its not about whos in the stands, if you need that validation then it wont matter what racing you participate in, I like the competition, I like that you can roll up in anything and race it and you win or lose based on your ability and not just on your pocketbook.
so heres a vote for bracket/index racing.
Posted By: Runner
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 08:24 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Bracket racing is so gay
and the index racing I mean come on
Good luck finding what you are looking for...
perhaps and 11.40 smallblock dart class with 750cfm carb, best 2 out of 3
Well, as for bracket racing being gay, it's alot more technical than first the finish line stuff. And class racing is even harder. The reason for brackets and classes is so the one with the most money didn't win every week. So.....you must have alot of money! But some of us don't and still like to compete, at a very high level I might add. Top Sportsman might be a good class for you if you think bracket racing is gay.
pretty sure megadarts comments are sarcasm
Posted By: moparacer
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 08:34 PM
Quote:
Good luck finding what you are looking for...
perhaps and 11.40 smallblock dart class with 750cfm carb, best 2 out of 3
Awww what the heck lets throw a bald headed guy on the line and race for pink slips.
Oh wait a second....
The day they eliminate bracket racing will be the day I finally stop wasting money on this hobby.
Posted By: MegaDart
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 08:36 PM
Quote:
pretty sure megadarts comments are sarcasm
FYI, Top Sportsman is fast bracket racing
c'mon .90 racing is tough? If I had enough bananas I could teach a monkey to do it! 
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 08:50 PM
Quote:
I realise that alot of people make money at it and thats great ,but its just not as fun to watch IMO ,as a heads up deal.I race just for fun and dont really care if i win or not .
good thing you don't care if you win and like watching. you'll get to do a lot of both running heads up. racing has changed dramatically over the years. trying to keep cars evenly matched rarely if ever works. i don't think anyone is really in love with bracket racing but otherwise it's a test of finances as opposed to skill. any of the jokers that think the "box" drives the car would get trailered in short order. 
Posted By: MegaDart
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 08:55 PM
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any of the jokers that think the "box" drives the car would get trailered in short order.
what'ya mean 
I thought if I put a 9.90 in there and had one of those throttle stop thingy's that's what the car would run? It that why I been losing all those rounds? 
Posted By: 10 o to go
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 09:15 PM
agreed jamesc
Majority of us won't go nhra or ihra class racing thats total $$$$ and class commitment .
I've BRACKET race 33 years my pocket book is so shallow ,bracket racing keeps me a bracket that I can compete in and have FUN .
I've done the heads up deal this year ,but I can't figure out why a 10.30 10.50 would enter a 10.0 class .
If your not close then sandbagging a class up is the next option and on the the brakes.
Neither are spectator oriented .Only if its a national event ,PINKS,,something new .
Gir has the SCSS heads up tue nites, but that doesn't draw that many cars or specs .
But when you have 8,7 sec cars tube chassis's with double stackers ,DO you really call them street cars ?
The tracks are trying to find a middle ground for all types of racing .
DR
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 09:19 PM
That box racing must be easy...Everyone on the internets says it is...
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 09:33 PM
Since we attend a lot of racing events with heads-up,index,class and bracket racing I can tell you the any good bracket racer is the guy you want to avoid.Be it a foot brake or box racer,he will hand you your butt at the stripe or on the timeslip.Me I like racing period.....
Posted By: The Shocker
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 09:37 PM
I think we are losing track of matter at hand.99% of the guys that are racing at the events i attend ( pre 65 Nostalgia )are working guys like me .There is no big $$$ to be gained if we win.I am just looking for another way to have us race heads up ,and be somewhat even.There are usually 200 + cars at these events ranging from 8's (only a couple) all the way up to 19's ...
Posted By: Adobedude
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 09:41 PM
I love bracket racing...I've put away a number of 10 second cars, and been spanked by a few 15 second sedans.
I don't have the funds, nor would I spend them anyway to have the fastest truck at the track.
So bracket racing it is...Better than just making laps on TT days.
Posted By: supercomp
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 09:44 PM
Wif dem dar boxes a blind man could win.
Posted By: camastomcat
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 09:48 PM
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pretty sure megadarts comments are sarcasm
FYI, Top Sportsman is fast bracket racing
c'mon .90 racing is tough? If I had enough bananas I could teach a monkey to do it!
OK, I guess you can't be serious with that comment, and I'm well aware of what Top Sportsman is, alot of cash to qualify, and fast bracket racing. More than some of the nostalgia cars.
Posted By: 10 o to go
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 09:51 PM
Quote:
I think we are losing track of matter at hand.99% of the guys that are racing at the events i attend ( pre 65 Nostalgia )are working guys like me .There is no big $$$ to be gained if we win.I am just looking for another way to have us race heads up ,and be somewhat even.There are usually 200 + cars at these events ranging from 8's (only a couple) all the way up to 19's ...
Then the 9.50 10.00 ,10.50 11.00 and up might work ,still looks like bracket racing . No track is going to spend the time to do weight,HP ,what mod are done to each.Get them down the track get a winner shut the gates ,turn the lites off .
DR
Posted By: Anonymous
Post deleted by Defbob - 01/17/10 10:06 PM
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 10:08 PM
Quote:
Bracket racing is BOOOOOOORRRRRRING to watch. I don't care how hard it is, to the spectator, it's BOOOOOOORRRRRRING. To call it a form of racing is ridiculous. In every other form of motorsports, whoever gets to the finish line first, wins. In every other form of motorsports, you don't lose for going too fast. It really should be called Consistency Contest. It's about consistency, not racing. 
how would you know? you haven't done either
Posted By: MegaDart
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 10:10 PM
you tell'em Dave
test n tune is soooo much more exciting...
you have obviously never won a round in your life cause you would realize the excitement of participating.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 10:12 PM
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you tell'em Dave test n tune is soooo much more exciting...
you have obviously never won a round in your life cause you would realize the excitement of participating.
hey now, he has polished a lot of lug nuts at the race track
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 10:15 PM
Quote:
Bracket racing is BOOOOOOORRRRRRING to watch. I don't care how hard it is, to the spectator, it's BOOOOOOORRRRRRING. To call it a form of racing is ridiculous. In every other form of motorsports, whoever gets to the finish line first, wins. In every other form of motorsports, you don't lose for going too fast. It really should be called Consistency Contest. It's about consistency, not racing.
I'll take consistantly winning over racing once or twice a year anytime. 
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 10:34 PM
Quote:
I am into Nostalgia type drags (pre 65) and most of the events that i attend all over are heads up.There are a few that are pushing for a dial in type platform to make it more even .The problem is i and others dont like it .Is there another wat to make it more even ,besides a handicap start?
Yes, just get rid of all the other rules and allow any combo. Then you will not be the fastest car out there and see how you like paying to race with no chance of winning. 
The Nostalgia thing is very cool and I like the fun of it with heads-up start etc. But the reason most tracks run brackets is to keep the cost to be competitive down. Any car can win on any given day.
IMO, the best "Nostalgia" thing to do is have pure no-electronics in the car. No button, no trans brake, nothing! Then make it 0.500" pro tree, heads up index classes (not too many, maybe 3). The raceers will either put weight in the car, positive stop the throttle, or fender race. That is a fun combination. A car too fast for the index can get eliminated by red light or break-out (running under the index). But a good fender racer can do well, but he must cut a light or he will break-out against a good racer running the number.
Avoid complicated rules that can't be inforced from cheating. Like, "I took the wire off the trans-brake". No, the brake cannot be in the transmission. It is too easy to hook up and disconnect when people are not looking. Same with all electronics. Make everyone worry about red light starts, so everyone must drive both ends of the track.
Posted By: 540dust
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/17/10 11:29 PM
I guess I'm kinda boring, I find participating more exciting and challenging than spectating.
Posted By: sam64
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 12:16 AM
i went to one of the type races the orignal poster races(h.a.m.b. drags)at,very different,but still on bracket format.yes even though they put you in the class they think you fall into(they look at your car body style)you could be a 15 sec car and have 8 sec cars in your class.i'm not sure whether he is trying to equal the feild for him or his competition either way its still gona be bracket racing, unless they go back to flag starts.
Posted By: The Shocker
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 12:56 AM
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i went to one of the type races the orignal poster races(h.a.m.b. drags)at,very different,but still on bracket format.yes even though they put you in the class they think you fall into(they look at your car body style)you could be a 15 sec car and have 8 sec cars in your class.i'm not sure whether he is trying to equal the feild for him or his competition either way its still gona be bracket racing, unless they go back to flag starts.
Ha ,ha ,ha, i would like to eqaul the field for myself sure Sam ,but there are alot of guys that are getting the shaft besides me at these events.They are wanting to change it to a bracket deal becasue of it.I myself dont mind losing as long as i dont have to lose and see my oponets tail lights at the stripe.I realise that you and many others make $ on occasion at Braket racing ,but its just not my thing .No offence intended to anyone .Just a difference of opinion is all.Thats why they make chocolate and vanilla.I was just looking for an alternative way to make these type of events more even and keep it heads up ,so everyones happy ...
Posted By: Anonymous
Post deleted by Defbob - 01/18/10 12:57 AM
Posted By: 493_DART
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 01:02 AM
I bracket race due to the fact Im not FILTHY RICH .
Cant afford a $$$ car to go heads up.
If i could, I would run the car heads up 10.5 AND brackets (no electronics) .
Posted By: rickstershemi
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 01:03 AM
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Bracket racing is BOOOOOOORRRRRRING to watch. I don't care how hard it is, to the spectator, it's BOOOOOOORRRRRRING. To call it a form of racing is ridiculous. In every other form of motorsports, whoever gets to the finish line first, wins. In every other form of motorsports, you don't lose for going too fast. It really should be called Consistency Contest. It's about consistency, not racing.
how would you know? you haven't done either
Yes I have! I have watched bracket racing, and it is BOOOOORRRRRING!!!!!! As a matter of fact, YOU ARE BOOOOOOORRRRRING, MR. CONSISTENCY CONTENDER!!!
BTW, you bracket guys are SOOOO sensitive and therefore SOOOO easy to tweak!!
Spectators....That's why they have "National Events" Local tracks depend on and cater to "Racers" OH and just an FYI: Chocolate & Vanilla cost the same
Rickster
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 01:14 AM
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Bracket racing is BOOOOOOORRRRRRING to watch. I don't care how hard it is, to the spectator, it's BOOOOOOORRRRRRING. To call it a form of racing is ridiculous. In every other form of motorsports, whoever gets to the finish line first, wins. In every other form of motorsports, you don't lose for going too fast. It really should be called Consistency Contest. It's about consistency, not racing.
how would you know? you haven't done either
Yes I have! I have watched bracket racing, and it is BOOOOORRRRRING!!!!!! As a matter of fact, YOU ARE BOOOOOOORRRRRING, MR. CONSISTENCY CONTENDER!!!
BTW, you bracket guys are SOOOO sensitive and therefore SOOOO easy to tweak!!
You haven't tweaked me in the lest bit,I've race in many different venues of dragracing and BGR racers are competitive and successfull and have been for over 40 years,we could care less what you think.Opinions are like butt holes,everyone has one,your no exception.Do what you enjoy and watch what you like,many of us would rather be in the "show" while other talk a good game.Different strokes for different folks and some just like to stroke. No sensitivity here,just telling it like it is. 
Posted By: Cheatham
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 01:16 AM
Bracket racing is why i went circle track racing, at the strip if your eliminated you spend another 25$ for a buy back and hope you make it to the next run or load it up and sit and watck or go home, in circle track you can run a heat race or 2 and feature races are 20 lap min. at the end of the night win or lose you atleast you raced your car and have somthething to talk about,my eyes are to poor to be circle track racing anymore so im working on a street strip car to cruise and take to the strip for grudge race nights.
Posted By: sam64
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 01:18 AM
i didn't mean anything bad towards you or what you intentions are,i just posted it to inform those on here what you are up against.also i have been bracket racing for over 25 years and won 2 races,so i'm not in it for the money,i just spend my money on it.good luck daniel.
Posted By: plasticfantastic
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 01:19 AM
Quote:
I was just looking for an alternative way to make these type of events more even and keep it heads up ,so everyones happy ...
making heads up racing more even? isnt that like saying hes retarded but still smart?
short of making rules like prostock (as an example), (limit cubic inches, limit type of transmissions, limit gear ratios, limit, limit limit), you will never have an all run, heads up race be even or "fair", and no one will ever be able to make everyone happy...
Posted By: pyp1000
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 01:21 AM
IBTL
Posted By: The Shocker
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 01:23 AM
Thanks Sam ,i just wanted to make sure you didnt think i was putting Bracket racing guys down ,im not.Its just not what i like to do .Good luck to you as well this season ...
Posted By: MegaDart
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 01:32 AM
shocker, I could tell you weren't slamming bracket racing after reading your post. Your "title" was a bit catchy!lol
I just thought I'd have a little fun with it!
Posted By: justinp61
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 01:47 AM
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Bracket racing is BOOOOOOORRRRRRING to watch. I don't care how hard it is, to the spectator, it's BOOOOOOORRRRRRING. To call it a form of racing is ridiculous. In every other form of motorsports, whoever gets to the finish line first, wins. In every other form of motorsports, you don't lose for going too fast. It really should be called Consistency Contest. It's about consistency, not racing.
Just out of curosity. What type of drag racing to you participate in? Myself, I bracket race and love it.
Posted By: RonTheAnnouncer
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 01:55 AM
I'm flat broke, and couldn't race at all if not for bracket racing. I take my slow junk to the track and do my best to turn on the occasional win light, and maybe take home a little cash or a dust collector. I just paid $450 for a car that I'll put a few hundred more into and go run 19s at the local tracks. Heads up is fun to watch, but I couldn't do it, unless someone wants to let me drive their car.
By the way, Norwalk has seats right at the finish line. THAT is where bracket racing can be very fun to watch!
Posted By: StandOnIt
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 01:58 AM
Bracket racing is all I can afford. As soon as I hit the lotto or some rich relative that I have never met kicks the bucket and leaves me a few drums of cash, I will do some heads up racing. If you want to heads up and not have a quarter million in the car, ya need to step the car up and index race. Oh wait, you would have to spend MORE money on it and would prob get ya rear handed to ya again. If ya keep practicing, you can prob figure out how to do the "bracket thing" and not be so sore about it. Good luck with it either way you decide to race.
Posted By: Bob_Coomer
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 02:05 AM
Thats the only thing we have in this area...These guys around here are absolute sharks on the tree and driving the strip... To win on any given weekend at my local race tracks, you would pretty much need to cut double O'h lights and run dead on within a 3 number...Think Im kiddin
Shoot to even place in foot brake class these guys cut O-teen lights, and run dead on also..
Posted By: rowin4
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 02:12 AM
Just go back and wax your car, you couldn't cut a light if you tried, oh, that's right you tried it once and got beat. Why don't you go to the casino , put your money in the change machine over and over, you'll be a winner every time. Or just go wax your car and tell every body how fast it is.
Posted By: The Shocker
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 02:14 AM
Maybe i should try and explain this better.Heres the deal at the Nostalgia events that i go to the theme is to have racing like they would on a country road somewhere (but legal on a Dragstrip).If you were racing on a country road you would drop a flag and go ,and the first one to the stripe would win.The problem we have now is that there are too many different level of cars running ,ranging from 8's to 19's.We only have 5 classes .One being stock ,another being Gas coupe/sedan (which is about 80% of the cars),dragster ,flatheads and 6 cylinders ,and Comp Coupe.I use to have a 13.5 4 spd Falcon that i drove up to 300 miles to events ,raced and drove back.I kept getting whipped by the trailered 11 and 12 second cars in Gas coupe/sedan class.I sold that car and decided to go with a cheap race only car ,hence my 64 Dart that i bought from Sam on here.It was running 11.90's - 12.00's when i got it and i did some cheap work and got it down to the 11.40's .I figured i would have a good chance of running the field in that class now.The guys that put it on saw that i was running faster than everyone else with a simular car ,and put me in the Comp class.Now im right back where i started with the other car,just in a higher class.I am a little frustrated sure ,but trying to give these guys another way to do it .Some thing like cubic inch / weight .I and others just dont want to bracket race at these events .If its not heads up then we have no insentive to try and go faster.Thats where i have my fun ,challenging myself each time out ,to go faster than the last time .I was just hoping to get some ideas on another way to do it ,not trying to run down what you may like to do ...
Posted By: plasticfantastic
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 02:23 AM
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Bracket racing is BOOOOOOORRRRRRING to watch. I don't care how hard it is, to the spectator, it's BOOOOOOORRRRRRING. To call it a form of racing is ridiculous. In every other form of motorsports, whoever gets to the finish line first, wins. In every other form of motorsports, you don't lose for going too fast. It really should be called Consistency Contest. It's about consistency, not racing.
heads up is boooorrrring, i can see fast cars in time trials, woooo he went a 7.50 and the guy he raced went an 8 flat, EXCITING...
people that think bracket racing is boring, (or even speaks for the entire spectator population), probably just dosent understand whats going on.
I've explained to people that didnt understand what was going on at the track, once they got the concept, they were really into it, did he break out? did he lift too soon, OH he ran dead on and got beat... so i dont agree with you saying its boring to spectators, maybe to the ones that show up wanting pro mod and get super pro.
I'm not speaking for all spectators like others, but to me and others i know, heads up is just a time trial where the announcer goes bat crap about the race.
Posted By: plasticfantastic
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 02:26 AM
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I just paid $450 for a car that I'll put a few hundred more into and go run 19s at the local tracks.
did you buy that out of toledo? slant 6? I think i may have looked at the same car awhile ago.
Posted By: StandOnIt
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 02:26 AM
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Maybe i should try and explain this better.Heres the deal at the Nostalgia events that i go to the theme is to have racing like they would on a country road somewhere (but legal on a Dragstrip).If you were racing on a country road you would drop a flag and go ,and the first one to the stripe would win.The problem we have now is that there are too many different level of cars running ,ranging from 8's to 19's.We only have 5 classes .One being stock ,another being Gas coupe/sedan (which is about 80% of the cars),dragster ,flatheads and 6 cylinders ,and Comp Coupe.I use to have a 13.5 4 spd Falcon that i drove up to 300 miles to events ,raced and drove back.I kept getting whipped by the trailered 11 and 12 second cars in Gas coupe/sedan class.I sold that car and decided to go with a cheap race only car ,hence my 64 Dart that i bought from Sam on here.It was running 11.90's - 12.00's when i got it and i did some cheap work and got it down to the 11.40's .I figured i would have a good chance of running the field in that class now.The guys that put it on saw that i was running faster than everyone else with a simular car ,and put me in the Comp class.Now im right back where i started with the other car,just in a higher class.I am a little frustrated sure ,but trying to give these guys another way to do it .Some thing like cubic inch / weight .I and others just dont want to bracket race at these events .If its not heads up then we have no insentive to try and go faster.Thats where i have my fun ,challenging myself each time out ,to go faster than the last time .I was just hoping to get some ideas on another way to do it ,not trying to run down what you may like to do ...
Why don't you just spray the pants off it and you can keep up with the faster cars in the class. Or, you can always practice with a pocket porta-tree and go bracket racing.
Posted By: QuickDart 502
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 02:39 AM
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Bracket racing is BOOOOOOORRRRRRING to watch. I don't care how hard it is, to the spectator, it's BOOOOOOORRRRRRING. To call it a form of racing is ridiculous. In every other form of motorsports, whoever gets to the finish line first, wins. In every other form of motorsports, you don't lose for going too fast. It really should be called Consistency Contest. It's about consistency, not racing.
All this coming from a person who wasnt good at either heads up or bracket racing. You did the right thing and sold the car.
Posted By: RapidusMaximus
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 02:48 AM
Well...I happen to love bracket racing...fast...it's still about racing...yes you have to cut a light...run your dial...and...drive the stripe...so easy a cave man could do it
...I've footbraked, box raced and driven a 4 speed GTX with no line lock or other "helping devices" to bracket race wins...it's a blast...heads up racing to win is for people with REALLY deep pocket books or resources not available to most of us...yes...I would heads up race in the ultimate heads up class if I had the money...Pro Stock...
Posted By: RonTheAnnouncer
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 02:53 AM
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I just paid $450 for a car that I'll put a few hundred more into and go run 19s at the local tracks.
did you buy that out of toledo? slant 6? I think i may have looked at the same car awhile ago.
Nope, from Cleveland. It was taking up space in my friend's driveway, so it made it's way to me.
Posted By: StealthWedge67
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 05:02 AM
Quote:
Bracket racing is BOOOOOOORRRRRRING to watch. I don't care how hard it is, to the spectator, it's BOOOOOOORRRRRRING. To call it a form of racing is ridiculous. In every other form of motorsports, whoever gets to the finish line first, wins. In every other form of motorsports, you don't lose for going too fast. It really should be called Consistency Contest. It's about consistency, not racing.
Spoken like someone who doesn't race. Even though hitting your number is the name of the game, there's not a bracket racer out there that still isn't spending every extra dollar he has, and busting his knuckles on a regular basis to get his car to go as fast as possible. Racing is racing. index, bracket, heads up, class..... its all good!, and its all fun!
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 08:21 AM
This is why I try never to call S/ST S/G S/C T/S & T/D "Racing"..
I call it a "Competition"..
That should make you happy..
Anyways.. Competing in this boring "S/ST" Class has netted me 5 "Wallys".... Wanna See a pair??
They don't give them out for spectating and bad mouthing..Sorry..
Chris..
.JPG "5742869-IMG_2884(Large).JPG")
Posted By: Leigh
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 10:45 AM
Good to see a forward facing scoupe. lol. By the way, I guess nobody likes my green start idea, eh?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 11:25 AM
Quote:
This is why I try never to call S/ST S/G S/C T/S & T/D "Racing"..
I call it a "Competition"..
That should make you happy..
Anyways.. Competing in this boring "S/ST" Class has netted me 5 "Wallys".... Wanna See a pair?? They don't give them out for spectating and bad mouthing..Sorry..
Chris..
Chris.... is she your girlfriend 
I like racing.... period... bracket, heads up, what ever
but lets face it, you better have a BIG wallet to
race heads up(which I dont have) so thats why I bracket
race. In bracket racing you can still run as fast as
you want but need to be consistent. I stepped up my
car so I wasnt always the first to leave(first red
looses)
Posted By: 1Fast340
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 01:04 PM
i like all dragracing and even if alot of people dont like watching bracket im the opposit think its exciting when watching some good racers run bracket since its so close
Posted By: rickstershemi
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 02:54 PM
Quote:
Thats the only thing we have in this area...These guys around here are absolute sharks on the tree and driving the strip... To win on any given weekend at my local race tracks, you would pretty much need to cut double O'h lights and run dead on within a 3 number...Think Im kiddin
Shoot to even place in foot brake class these guys cut O-teen lights, and run dead on also..
No different around here Bob, but that's what makes it interesting...
Rickster
Posted By: Tig
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 05:52 PM
Experienced bracket racers make the best heads up racers anyway IMHO
Posted By: cbarracuda
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 06:48 PM
Posted By: BradH
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 06:50 PM
My ego and my bank account aren't big enough to be competitive in a true "heads up" class anymore.
Well, at least my bank account isn't...
Bracket racing is still fun for me, as infrequently as I participate. If it isn't fun, leave the car in the garage.
Posted By: 11secdart
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 07:26 PM
Bracket Racing is what I do, As far as anybody else do whatever you want and can afford.I really like Stock, Super/ Stock, and Super Street I just can`t afford it. Bracket racing makes it possible for a lot of us lowbuckers to compete. I race an 11 second Dart and a 15 second pickup truck and I sometimes think I do better in the truck so its not always about being fast. I tried an Index Class race at my local track last year and liked it so I may try it again.
Posted By: bonefish
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 07:40 PM
bracket racing "pitting your skill and expertise against the other drivers luck" at least thats what i like to think when i lose.
Posted By: B G Racing
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/18/10 07:55 PM
Racing takes all the BS out of the issue,each pass you make makes a statement about you and your car and it's all fact for everyone to see.Talking about racing is just someones opinion.Talking about something you are not experienced at is is assuming and we all know that to assume is.
Posted By: Hemi_Joel
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 06:48 AM
A race is by definition a speed contest. If you can loose by going too fast, it is not really a race. I have nothing against bracket racing, but I certainly understand the original poster not being too excited about the idea of switching to format where you can loose your "race" by going "too fast".
What you really ought to consider is switching to the unique race format that is used in F.A.S.T. racing. In F.A.S.T., there is no handicap, no index, no breakout rule, no dial in, no weight breaks, just good old heads up racing. Yet everyone gets a good close race and at least 2 rounds of competition.
Here's how it works. Everybody makes qualifying passes. Qualfiers 1 through 8 (know as the quick 8) go into a pro ladder to determine the event winner. 1 vs. 8, 2 vs. 7, etc. Quick 8 first round loosers go into a consolation ladder to determine the consolation winner. Qualifyers 9 and slower run a best of 3 shoout against their closest qualifying competitor. 9 vs. 10, 11 vs. 12, etc. So the slower cars still get a close heads up race that is just as exciting and competitive as the quick 8.
With this format, the ultra competetive, go for the jugular, always want to be the fastest guys can put in the effort and the bucks to shoot for the quick 8, and try to be the event winner. Everybody else still gets a good heads up race!
It might work very well for your events.
Posted By: 572charger
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 12:05 PM
bracket racing is ok but id rather be in a heads up race thats why i run events lijke the pump gas drags ! both norwalk and thompson drag way are going to have heads up street car type of drag racing i will try to make a few of those this year ! or i just go to test and tunes !!! probably going to go to drag week this year also !
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 12:09 PM
they tried that heads up junk when 75/80 re-opened. they had 9 second 10 second....14 second classes. it was ll heads up, didn't last. nobody went and you either had to sand bag or spend extra money to make your car faster. It's just not practical to have that kind of racing all the time. Maybe a few events here or there. But you have to look at it like a track owner, bracket racing brings more people to the track.
Posted By: MoparPitBull
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 01:19 PM
HEADS UP RACING = WALLET RACING.
Posted By: bwdst6
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 01:40 PM
Let me see if I can summarize this thread.
Heads Up Racing = Expensive
Bracket Racing = Boring
Index Racing = Really Boring
Practical Alternative = None
Revisiting an old discussion ad infinitum = Priceless
Posted By: Hemiroid
Re: Who else doesn't like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 01:50 PM
I like any kind of muscle car and enjoy a lot of different kinds of racing. I bracket race my street driven GTX and enjoy contributing to the purse money the winners get
I'm also attempting to put together a heads-up all motor car for Milan's All Motor class. I won't argue that it's expensive, but have to laugh at the people who say it's all about the money. Go walk around the pits and see how much money is in some S/G, S/C, SS/T cars then come back and talk to me about money
You can have all of the money in the world, but if you don't have your combo on kill, making the most hp possible with the parts you have and can't drive a 1000+ hp car on the ragged edge on a 10.5 tire you're going home first round. And if you think the people driving these cars can't drive you're an idiot.
Milan's Friday night heads-up program fills the stands with spectators from all over the place. Lots of people from out of state travel to Michigan to watch and participate in this race, so I kinda chuckled at the suggestion that it isn't popular.
All racing is cool, just be glad we're able to have the opportunity to watch and race all of these awesome cars and quit getting hung up on which is better.
Posted By: dvw
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 02:22 PM
I remember seeing one of Dave Dudeks motors for sale a while back. These numbers might not be exact but I believe it said over 25K invested. The reason for the sale. A new bullit to remain on top. There are guys who can come up with 20k for a motor,once. Then after a season they're behind. I personally can't afford 20K on the whole car, much less a motor. Then you have to deal with the yearly rule changes. I raced NMCA and NSCA for many years, though not in the heads up classes. I made many friends who were racing heads up. It's a very expensive and VERY time consuming venture to stay on top. Personally I like the no electronics index racing that N/SS racing provides. No dial-in change over a few days,no trans brake. A guy asked me once how do you stay on the dial with weather and track changes. I told him I tune with a stick and a stone.
Doug
Posted By: TMP66
Re: Who else doesn't like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 02:39 PM
Quote:
I am into Nostalgia type drags (pre 65) and most of the events that i attend all over are heads up.There are a few that are pushing for a dial in type platform to make it more even .The problem is i and others dont like it.
I race just for fun and dont really care if i win or not
When you say "pre 65" nostalgia drags would I guess your talking about the HAMB style drags. Those guys only race a few times a year and are more about living in the past, and that includes the claim of cheap fun. The cheapest fun in drag racing ever invented is bracketing racing. But then again "that ain't how we did it in the old days". 
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 02:42 PM
Quote:
Let me see if I can summarize this thread.
Heads Up Racing = Expensive
Bracket Racing = Boring
Index Racing = Really Boring
Practical Alternative = None
Revisiting an old discussion ad infinitum = Priceless
Bracket racing isn't boring if your track does it right. They can match "similar" dials and it's almost heads up. Plus they do have fast and slow brackets. Not every track runs 16-10 second cars in the same bracket class. As a matter of fact most have several classes. For your heads up racing they have plenty of events during the year.
Posted By: hemi-itis
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 02:49 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Bracket racing is BOOOOOOORRRRRRING to watch. I don't care how hard it is, to the spectator, it's BOOOOOOORRRRRRING. To call it a form of racing is ridiculous. In every other form of motorsports, whoever gets to the finish line first, wins. In every other form of motorsports, you don't lose for going too fast. It really should be called Consistency Contest. It's about consistency, not racing.
All this coming from a person who wasnt good at either heads up or bracket racing. You did the right thing and sold the car.
This just enforces why I call him DB DAVE E/mail me for the translation .Bracket racers make up the majority of racers at EVERY track .Some of you are not interested in going any faster or just improving the tune while others are always thinking of ways to go faster.I like seeing people that I do not get to see often,hanging out tween rounds and enjoying the SKIRT steaks.DB DAVE is just another keyboard jockey here to stir 
He is not a racer,never was,never will be.DB DAVE,put the pipe down and walk away from the computer. 
Posted By: bwdst6
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 03:41 PM
Quote:
Bracket racing isn't boring if your track does it right. They can match "similar" dials and it's almost heads up. Plus they do have fast and slow brackets. Not every track runs 16-10 second cars in the same bracket class. As a matter of fact most have several classes. For your heads up racing they have plenty of events during the year.
I'm thinking of a half dozen tracks off the top of my head (some in MD) that run a pro, super pro, street class set up. I haven't seen tracks run "similar" dials classes in nigh on to 20 years! dagnambit!
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 03:55 PM
Quote:
Bracket racing is BOOOOOOORRRRRRING to watch. I don't care how hard it is, to the spectator, it's BOOOOOOORRRRRRING. To call it a form of racing is ridiculous. In every other form of motorsports, whoever gets to the finish line first, wins. In every other form of motorsports, you don't lose for going too fast. It really should be called Consistency Contest. It's about consistency, not racing.
well try racing instead of watching... you might have some fun.
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 04:07 PM
got news for you heads up racers it's not doing so well either. a number of tracks have cancled their 10.5 heads up programs due to lack of turnout. people get tired of the same car winning each week. tube chassis high dollar cars will prevail.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 04:09 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Bracket racing isn't boring if your track does it right. They can match "similar" dials and it's almost heads up. Plus they do have fast and slow brackets. Not every track runs 16-10 second cars in the same bracket class. As a matter of fact most have several classes. For your heads up racing they have plenty of events during the year.
I'm thinking of a half dozen tracks off the top of my head (some in MD) that run a pro, super pro, street class set up. I haven't seen tracks run "similar" dials classes in nigh on to 20 years! dagnambit!
75/80 has those classes and a 14 slower class. I believe it's Super Pro (old class 1) Pro (old class 2) Street, and 2 trophy classes one is for 14 and slower.
Posted By: bwdst6
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 04:18 PM
Quote:
75/80 has those classes and a 14 slower class. I believe it's Super Pro (old class 1) Pro (old class 2) Street, and 2 trophy classes one is for 14 and slower.
exactly! What is it, super pro is 11.99 and under (with box), pro is 13.99 and under basically (with no box ) and street is 12.00 and up. How are those "similar" dial classes?
Posted By: cgall
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 04:54 PM
Look at the top drivers in Sportsman classes, Fletcher, Biondo, Rampy, Richardson, etc. They came from bracket racing and many of them still do.
If you want to succeed in drag racing at any level, you need to learn to hit the tree and drive the stripe. Except, of course, Top Fuel and Funny Car.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 05:03 PM
I understand your point, but they do try and match up racers. If you are in line dailed at 12.0 and the guy behind you is a 13.5 and the guy behind him is a 12.20, they will pull the slower car aside and make the two faster cars go. And I think Super Pro is 10.99 and faster w/ eletronics, 2 is anything no electronics??? S/E is the closet to heads up
Posted By: 11secdart
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 05:03 PM
If you race in NHRA Division One ( Northeast) one thing you can count on is the class ET breaks changing every couple of years. They ruined Pro/ Heavy when they went to a 9.00 low ET. IMO it should have stayed at 10.00. After years of racing in Pro/ Heavy two years ago I slowed my car down , put DOT tires on it and started racing in Street Eliminator ( 11.50-19.99) My car runs consistent 11.50s and I`m having a blast! Theres only a few 11.50 cars every week so I don`t have many headsup races but there are a few real slow cars( an 18 second Station Wagon, a 16 second Maverick, a 16 second Jeep etc.) I have to wait a long time but once I`m in third gear its fun running them down. When I race my truck I`m being chased most of the time, If you are decent on the tree, have a consistent vehicle and can judge the stripe you can do fairly well.
Posted By: bwdst6
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 05:19 PM
I remember when Mason-Dixon (other tracks may have too) ran the format as such...
Super Pro: 10.99 - under
Pro: 11.00 - 11.99
Heavy: 12.00 - 13.99
Street: 14.00 - up
Now that racing I preferred. Especially since electronics didn't exist. But I guess tracks don't like having classes with only 20 cars in them for whatever reason (most likely money would be my guess).
Posted By: 11secdart
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 05:22 PM
I remember the ET breaks like that years ago, IMO that was the best format.
Posted By: racerAL
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 05:31 PM
Quote:
I understand your point, but they do try and match up racers. If you are in line dailed at 12.0 and the guy behind you is a 13.5 and the guy behind him is a 12.20, they will pull the slower car aside and make the two faster cars go. And I think Super Pro is 10.99 and faster w/ eletronics, 2 is anything no electronics??? S/E is the closet to heads up
...i have never heard of such a thing...so your saying, durning a regular weekend bracket race(round-robin style). the track your describing actually moves cars around in the staging lanes to make the best(closest) race? ..can't imagine why they would do that..might as well just call them to the staging lanes by car # to make sure they get the best pairings..?
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Who else doesnt like Bracket / Index racing ? - 01/19/10 05:36 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I understand your point, but they do try and match up racers. If you are in line dailed at 12.0 and the guy behind you is a 13.5 and the guy behind him is a 12.20, they will pull the slower car aside and make the two faster cars go. And I think Super Pro is 10.99 and faster w/ eletronics, 2 is anything no electronics??? S/E is the closet to heads up
...i have never heard of such a thing...so your saying, durning a regular weekend bracket race(round-robin style). the track your describing actually moves cars around in the staging lanes to make the best(closest) race? ..can't imagine why they would do that..might as well just call them to the staging lanes by car # to make sure they get the best pairings..?
If they see 2 equal cars almost back to back they will/have in the past moved on aside, I've been on both ends of it. I was psyched to race this guy that dialed a 12.20 knowing he'd never run it. I was in my turck and dialed a 14.38 They moved me aside and let the guy behind me w/ a 12.35 dial run him. I had to run thenext guy w/ a 13.80 dail. Still won.
