Moparts
Small Block Edelbrock Heads
Posted By: MarkKirby
Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 12:52 AM
This may have been covered here previously but in your opinion who puts out the best small block Edelbrock heads, either CNC or custom ported? I have talked to Hughes, Indy, and a couple local head experts with mostly similar pricing and theories on performance.
This is for a race only stroker.
Posted By: S/ST 3040
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 01:27 AM
I'll get the ball rolling. How big will the engine be?
How much does the car weigh and what is your goal for it?
Posted By: MarkKirby
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 02:12 AM
The specs are below....although my question is really about who is the best supplier.
416" 340 +30
4" Steel crank, H-beam
Dynoed at
575hp@6500, 550lbs torque @4700
Ported J Heads flowing approximately 270 @.600"
Gary Stinnet HP950 on Super Victor
Cam: 627"/637" 276/281 @.050"
3300lb A-Body
Low gear 904
5.13 Dana
4-link
16 x 33 GYs
Stock front suspension
10.40 @125.00
1.37 60'
The car works well the way it is currently setup. However, I am looking to push it over 600hp to gain mph when running Super Street and a couple tenths padding on a 10.60 index.
Posted By: patrick
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 03:17 AM
given your location, I'd talk to board member OU812, Brian at IMM.
other good small block porters: Jeff at Modern Cyl, and Ryan J at Shady Dell Speed Shop
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 03:21 AM
If you MUST buy Edelbrocks get the IndyBrocks. I have tried both and I dont care what the flowbenches say.....the IndyBrocks were faster on the SAME engine...
Posted By: pittsburghracer
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 04:01 AM
Lighten the car. There's no way that duster should weight 3300# unless your 400#.
Posted By: MarkKirby
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 04:02 AM
Brian at IMM is an absolute genius when it comes to small blocks. I have talked to Indy about the IndyBrocks but at close to $4grand I don't see the value.
I don't need to go the full blown Indy route because I don't need to pickup 100hp....perhaps just half of that. However, although the Eddies will give me less HP gain they are certainly not HALF the cost of the Indy kit. And as far as Shady Dell is concerned...I just can't get him on the phone in spite of numerous tries.
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 04:15 AM
My complete IndyBrock kit was $2200 with rockers pushrods and gaskets....
Posted By: 70AARcuda
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 04:17 AM
Mark..
the Indybrocks are an edelbrock head that has the intake pushrod offsetted aka TA/W2 head. He is not talking about the Indy 360-1 heads, just an indy modified eddy head.
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 04:21 AM
100% here.
.JPG "5658479-ENGINE340RaceEngines(32).JPG")
Posted By: 68Fastback
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 04:58 AM
Quote:
The specs are below....although my question is really about who is the best supplier.
416" 340 +30
4" Steel crank, H-beam
Dynoed at [Email]575hp@6500[/Email], 550lbs torque @4700
Ported J Heads flowing approximately 270 @.600"
Gary Stinnet HP950 on Super Victor
Cam: 627"/637" 276/281 @.050"
3300lb A-Body
Low gear 904
5.13 Dana
4-link
16 x 33 GYs
Stock front suspension
10.40 @125.00
1.37 60'
The car works well the way it is currently setup. However, I am looking to push it over 600hp to gain mph when running Super Street and a couple tenths padding on a 10.60 index.
I have seen your car run, you have done alot of tricks to it no matter how much it weighs. Can you tell me the front to rear bias. And you can't go wrong with either Brian or Ryan, I have seen first hand from both guys 60HP gains in just their head porting, no other changes. of course you will save some freight and travel time getting them to mad man Brian but both guys even help each other out on both coasts. Good guys in my book. Good luck.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 03:25 PM
I have been using Vic(S/ST3040)with great results.I bet by his questions he was wondering if an Edelbrock head would be able to support what you were intending to use it for.
Edelbrock heads can only move X amount of air,no matter who does the port work.The Indybrocks with their relocated push rod locations probably help since most porters crowd the push rod pinch anyway.
Posted By: S/ST 3040
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 04:08 PM
Using the trusty Moroso Power/Speed calculator, I have his 416 @ 495 HP and your 421 @ 520 HP.
I think the INDY version of the RPM is worth some power, espesially on
a 4"+ stroker. Keith's are as big as I could get with tubed pushrods and
I think it would be faster if I could have opened them up another .100".
I'd also consider a different cam on the 416.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/10/09 04:13 PM
based on your current performance,( heads you have already) i would expect a set of well done eddie heads to be 2.5- to 3 tenths better than what you have currently. Not to mention a pretty decent weight savings, that you can factor in as well.
knowing what i know now, and people i have talked to over the past few years, i would recommend the hughes head and the full cnc porting they offer. you are just going to have more uniformity cylinder to cylinder over hand porting, and hughes's cnc program is on the agressive side as well, they produce a nice head, a local friend just ordered a set for his 408 ...i dont see any reason whatsoever you shouldnt pick up at LEAST 40 horsepower over what you currently have, if not a little more.
there are other heads that obviously will offer a bigger gain( indy/w5, etc) but if your goals are as you stated above, the cnc eddie heads from Hughes are, IMO, easily capable of the upgrade in performance to suit your requirements.
they do a lot of work with iron heads as well, give them a call and ask their opinion of a max set of eddies compared to your j heads.
Posted By: Lil Wedge
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/11/09 12:46 AM
Vic, You port heads also?
Posted By: S/ST 3040
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/11/09 01:37 AM
Yes but, I try to stick with SB heads as much as I can though.
Posted By: S/ST 3040
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/11/09 01:42 AM
...and the heart breaker.
Posted By: meus31
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/11/09 02:49 AM
all right i have a question . what is the best anyone has ever seen or had a edelbrock run at the track. pump gas or race fuel just tell us what it was so we can compare apples to applesand race weight if you know it.
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/11/09 02:54 AM
My Cuda ran 6.70 in the 1/8th on BOX STOCK eddys. 3000lbs 340 non stroked. 1.40 60ft time.
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/11/09 03:33 AM
Pretty happy with the Eddies with just a backcut intake, a sharp valvejob and opening up the Pushrod Pinch, of course mines just a little 341 mini stroker so I'm not taxing them all that hard!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWfK6cs8isE
Posted By: dodgeboy11
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/11/09 06:32 AM
With a valve job and port work on some Eddy magnum heads I saw 282 cfm. It was enough air for 498 hp out of a 360 with about 10.5:1 compression and a hydraulic roller. My own personal motor has the earlier LA heads and they have more meat in the ports for a little more aggressive port, but they don't flow as "easy", in my experience, as the magnum versions. I've currently got mine flowing 312 cfm @ .700" with a 2.080" intake valve. I've plugged the pushrod holes and plan on using offset rockers. Problem is, at the amount of effort I'm putting into the eddies, I could have done some Indys. But, I already had the E's. Just can't get enough cross section out of them to flow the big numbers.
We've got a hydraulic roller'd 408 with some oval indy's I ported on the dyno right now. I hope to get it running tomorrow, but it'll probably turn into next week with the other work that needs to be done.
Guess I'll throw my hat into the ring. I've got more experience porting the E's than I sometimes like, but I seem to have a God given talent for getting them to flow air.
Number's in the signature if you're interested.
Jason.
They say a picture's worth a thousand words. Well here's a few thousand words.
little wave in my port's wall, not finished yet.
Posted By: Stroker Scamp
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/11/09 07:37 AM
Quote:
all right i have a question . what is the best anyone has ever seen or had a edelbrock run at the track. pump gas or race fuel just tell us what it was so we can compare apples to applesand race weight if you know it.
ive ran a 10.24 at 130 3000lbs race weight, jeff at modern cyl head cnc ported the heads, bigger valves too, didnt do too much tuning as of yet just having fun, lonnie (wheelsup68) still or has ran eddy heads on a smallblock well into the nines, a bit lighter than me, mabey on alky?? not sure, if your gonna spend the coin to go fast low 10 or in the nines id get a better head
Posted By: Lil Wedge
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/12/09 12:48 AM
We have run a best of 6.15 in the 1/8 @109 in good air with 416, 750 holley and 557 Solid and Shady Dell Eddies , Flowed 290's Car was about 2980lbs. I'd say that is at least a 9.80 or better
Posted By: meus31
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/12/09 01:20 AM
LIL Wedge what kind of compression does your car have and any convertor specs . is that with a mopar performance 557 solid lift cam?
Posted By: Lil Wedge
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/12/09 01:30 AM
it's got Ross 12.5-1 pistons with 63 cc chambers, Converter is 8 in, about 5300 stall, Racer Brown cam
Posted By: meus31
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/12/09 01:05 PM
lil wedge thats a great running combo .
Posted By: 10 o to go
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/12/09 02:44 PM
Ive run my eddies for 3 years .
2 years on my 410 had some port work and a 557 cam with 1.6 rockers
best average 10.30s
built a 418 this year more port work ,work on valve cuts now 590 cam 1.6 rockers .
best average 10.10s
THEN I added low gear got me in 9s
Good heads just don't get the flow numbers up thier .
I like to get some heads that flow to do a 418 up cubic inch .
my car 2860 ,3040 w/me
don
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/12/09 03:13 PM
Mark,
As good as your car runs and your power is with the J's, my gut is the eddies (even with a full tilt port job) may not be large enough of an ET drop to make you happy.
I think you'll need to see 320 cfm to really make you smile, I would strongly consider either a W5 or a brodix to get more CFM and Intake port CC (which is what the big motor needs). You can only get so much fuel through a port.
Posted By: patrick
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/12/09 04:11 PM
Quote:
Mark,
As good as your car runs and your power is with the J's, my gut is the eddies (even with a full tilt port job) may not be large enough of an ET drop to make you happy.
I think you'll need to see 320 cfm to really make you smile, I would strongly consider either a W5 or a brodix to get more CFM and Intake port CC (which is what the big motor needs). You can only get so much fuel through a port.
or one of the indy 360 variants...
Posted By: MarkKirby
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/12/09 11:59 PM
It seems I've got a little more weight than most of you for a Duster. Kind of tough to cut it down since I'm pushing 330 without the race car!!!! I could lay off the enchiladas and learn to like broccoli and probably pickup a few hundredths!
The thing I'm struggling with is that obviously the Indy kit brings forth the most power at about $4000...the Eddies(from Indy) are still $3700(quoted by Indy) for quite a bit less power upgrade. Although I don't need as much power gain as the Indy 360 will provide it doesn't seem to make economic sense to buy the Eddies unless I can find a similar package at a heck of a lot less than Indy quoted.
I don't want to run 9.99 in this car. I DO want to pickup a few mph and a couple tenths which probably translates to 50-60hp.
Posted By: 68Fastback
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 12:18 AM
Quote:
It seems I've got a little more weight than most of you for a Duster. Kind of tough to cut it down since I'm pushing 330 without the race car!!!! I could lay off the enchiladas and learn to like broccoli and probably pickup a few hundredths!
The thing I'm struggling with is that obviously the Indy kit brings forth the most power at about $4000...the Eddies(from Indy) are still $3700(quoted by Indy) for quite a bit less power upgrade. Although I don't need as much power gain as the Indy 360 will provide it doesn't seem to make economic sense to buy the Eddies unless I can find a similar package at a heck of a lot less than Indy quoted.
I don't want to run 9.99 in this car. I DO want to pickup a few mph and a couple tenths which probably translates to 50-60hp.
Do you know the Sloan brothers, I think they maybe selling the top end off their current motor, Brian at IMM did the heads so you can't go wrong there.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 01:02 AM
Quote:
It seems I've got a little more weight than most of you for a Duster. Kind of tough to cut it down since I'm pushing 330 without the race car!!!! I could lay off the enchiladas and learn to like broccoli and probably pickup a few hundredths!
The thing I'm struggling with is that obviously the Indy kit brings forth the most power at about $4000...the Eddies(from Indy) are still $3700(quoted by Indy) for quite a bit less power upgrade. Although I don't need as much power gain as the Indy 360 will provide it doesn't seem to make economic sense to buy the Eddies unless I can find a similar package at a heck of a lot less than Indy quoted.
I don't want to run 9.99 in this car. I DO want to pickup a few mph and a couple tenths which probably translates to 50-60hp.
Just don't plan on picking up any HP if you use Indy's kit with OOTB -1 heads...
those heads don't make any more HP than eddy heads OOTB. They flow 260 cfm MAX on my bench!!
They NEED porting to work like they should.
Change the cam, ported eddy heads and your super victor intake and your going to go 10.teens I guarantee it!
Posted By: PUNK
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 07:09 AM
Mark, dont do the CNC stuff. Buy the Edelbrocks and have Brian @ IMM port them and pick out a cam to compliment the new heads. Your intake, rockers and headers will bolt right up making it the most economical choice. Indy heads will be WAY more money just because you wouldnt be able to utilize anything on your current top end. I would sell you the Eddies off of Dougs engine, but Im using them on my wifes hotrod once I finish up DOugs new 411 Indy headed engine with some IMM port work. Mark, what did you end up doing with your superstock 340 engine?
Posted By: S/ST 3040
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 01:26 PM
Quote:
Mark, what did you end up doing with your superstock 340 engine?
I think he's re-using the cam.
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 01:45 PM
AGAIN,
I dont know who you are talking to at Indy but I just bought a set. Heres the link. They are $2500 for the topend kit.
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/inedenalhe.htmlAnd this is from Indy's site direct.
http://indyheads.com/images/p_pge/price13.pdf
Posted By: Hunted Duck
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 03:19 PM
Quote:
Quote:
It seems I've got a little more weight than most of you for a Duster. Kind of tough to cut it down since I'm pushing 330 without the race car!!!! I could lay off the enchiladas and learn to like broccoli and probably pickup a few hundredths!
The thing I'm struggling with is that obviously the Indy kit brings forth the most power at about $4000...the Eddies(from Indy) are still $3700(quoted by Indy) for quite a bit less power upgrade. Although I don't need as much power gain as the Indy 360 will provide it doesn't seem to make economic sense to buy the Eddies unless I can find a similar package at a heck of a lot less than Indy quoted.
I don't want to run 9.99 in this car. I DO want to pickup a few mph and a couple tenths which probably translates to 50-60hp.
Just don't plan on picking up any HP if you use Indy's kit with OOTB -1 heads...
those heads don't make any more HP than eddy heads OOTB. They flow 260 cfm MAX on my bench!!
They NEED porting to work like they should.
Change the cam, ported eddy heads and your super victor intake and your going to go 10.teens I guarantee it!
is the super victor that much better than the victor 340 with eddys in a combo like he running? Just asking, thats all. Just want to see if I am leaving any power on the table.
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 03:35 PM
The Super Victor picked me up a tenth. BUT, the AirGap I have was faster than the regular Victor and the Mopar M1 on mine. The Super Victor was the best on mine.
Posted By: 10 o to go
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 03:40 PM
Not to hijack i put my 2 cents in on heads.
What are others seeing if any in the SUPER VICTOR INTAKE ?
I'm running the victor 340 with super sucker .
wanting to buy it if the gain justify's the cost .
Also in what stage's of port work .
they are pricey from hughe's .
Going on my 418 .
thanks don
Posted By: 10 o to go
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 03:43 PM
Quote:
The Super Victor picked me up a tenth. BUT, the AirGap I have was faster than the regular Victor and the Mopar M1 on mine. The Super Victor was the best on mine.
i type too slow
dakuda is that oootb or ported to what degree ?
thanks DR
Posted By: PUNK
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 03:46 PM
When the Edelbrocks were stock and unported, we used a Mopar M1 manifold. We then had the heads ported by Brian @ IMM and at the same time I switched to the Super Victor. THe car went from 11.20s to 10.60s. I wish I would have done the manifold swap after running the ported heads. So basically I cant even give an honest conclusion as the affects of the manifold vs. another one. We have a 2" tapered spacer ontop as well and the manifold is TALL.
Posted By: Hunted Duck
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 03:54 PM
Quote:
The Super Victor picked me up a tenth. BUT, the AirGap I have was faster than the regular Victor and the Mopar M1 on mine. The Super Victor was the best on mine.
How much port work were done to your heads if you don't mind me asking. And what spacer and carb.
Posted By: MarkKirby
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 04:21 PM
Brian
If we decide to go the Eddie/IMM route, how quickly can you turn them around? I have a race on New Years Day!!!
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 04:29 PM
Quote:
Quote:
The Super Victor picked me up a tenth. BUT, the AirGap I have was faster than the regular Victor and the Mopar M1 on mine. The Super Victor was the best on mine.
i type too slow
dakuda is that oootb or ported to what degree ?
thanks DR
Mine was out of the box from Summit. Really nice intake. Wilson 1" 4 hole spacer with QuickFuel 750 carb. Ran 6.71 in the 1/8th on 340 inches. Like I said, my AirGap was faster than the regular and Mopar M1 though.
Posted By: S/ST 3040
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 04:32 PM
Intake selection might be somewhat confusing.
Didn't you run that 340 on straight methanol?
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 04:42 PM
The M1 is very very similar to the original Strip Dominator, the Airgap works best in heavier cars where the fatter midrange power will help it ET, but hte M1 is typically going to produce a bit more power upstairs if you have the head, cam and compression to use it....so it really depends on the combo, gearing and weight. The RPM AG design is really only limited at the higher Revs by the cross-section from the plenums to each of the 2 ports it feeds. I will say that the M1 works really well in combination with with the 2" Super sucker.
I've always considered the M1 and the Victor pretty much a dead-heat (if I had one I wouldn't trade it for another) but the M1/Strip Dom always seemed to have better torque on a high comp motor. i've heard good things about the Super victor, looks like if I was at 390+ cubes and turning 6700+ that'ed be the one to go for.
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 05:05 PM
Quote:
Intake selection might be somewhat confusing.
Didn't you run that 340 on straight methanol?
Yes,
340 .620 solid roller on Alky. Ran 7.00 on AvGas from the Airport. Ran 6.70 on alky both with the same intakes.
Posted By: DaKuda
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 05:08 PM
On AvGas it ran 7.00 with the AirGap. Ran 7.19 with the Mopar M1. Same EVERYTHING else including RPM. Tried to turn it harder and the M1 was just CRAP. I do not like that intake.
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 09:19 PM
Quote:
Brian
If we decide to go the Eddie/IMM route, how quickly can you turn them around? I have a race on New Years Day!!!
I can have them done by the 24th...and I think a new cam and lifters are in order as well!!
Posted By: mokid
Re: Small Block Edelbrock Heads - 12/13/09 09:37 PM
I had the Elelbrocks on my 4in stroked motor that Muscle motors put together for me very little done on them, Victor intake best time was 10.00, best person to call would be rick liuzzo for your small block, But I would say get off the bench and go with a R3 W8 motor or the new P7 stuff