Moparts

727 front drum

Posted By: MOPARCHAS

727 front drum - 09/28/09 12:18 PM

what do you guys use for a front drum in a 727
racing only and why and from who
thanks Charlie
had a good time at Monster Mopar Weekend untill my line like failed and only had rear brakes
Posted By: atoetly

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 12:27 PM

I use a billet steel unit for safety reasons. I've had a billet aluminum one but they are a pain in the butt in terms of oil contamination and they don't last. And don't believe the hype that an aluminum unit will make you go faster either.

Attached picture 5510361-finally.jpg
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 12:31 PM

I have the A&A billet steel drum in mine. I went with the steel drum b/c it's a street car and wanted max durability. CHIP

Attached picture 5510366-cudadriveway.jpg
Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 12:35 PM

this is about 50 runs on an aluminum drum


use a billet steel one from CRT , of you plan on driving it on the street... - John is a great guy to deal with.
Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 12:44 PM

I bought a billet steel drum from CRT when the factory drum couldn't keep the snap ring in place after the T brake install.

John is a great guy to deal with
Posted By: Crizila

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 01:23 PM

Quote:

this is about 50 runs on an aluminum drum


use a billet steel one from CRT , of you plan on driving it on the street... - John is a great guy to deal with.


After smoking my original 3 disc clutch pack, CRT set me up with a steel drum and 4 disc pack. Works good.
Posted By: KD800X

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 01:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

this is about 50 runs on an aluminum drum


use a billet steel one from CRT , of you plan on driving it on the street... - John is a great guy to deal with.


After smoking my original 3 disc clutch pack, CRT set me up with a steel drum and 4 disc pack. Works good.




Our A&A Aluminum drum is over 2 years old and the fluid never looked like that.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 02:40 PM

Quote:

what do you guys use for a front drum in a 727
racing only and why and from who


Since your application is race only, you get to pick between aluminum and steel to get rid of the cast factory drum.

I have been running an aluminum drum from TCS with a smooth (no slots) red band for about 4 years and 600+ passes. I am very happy. I don't overheat the fluid or slip the clutches so my fluid holds up well and I change fluid and filter every 40 passes. The drum still looked good (minor wear) on the band surface during last winter's refresh. Another nice feature of the TCS drum is the replacable bronze sleeve that the rings ride on. More durable than aluminum and replaceable.
Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 04:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

this is about 50 runs on an aluminum drum


use a billet steel one from CRT , of you plan on driving it on the street... - John is a great guy to deal with.


After smoking my original 3 disc clutch pack, CRT set me up with a steel drum and 4 disc pack. Works good.




Our A&A Aluminum drum is over 2 years old and the fluid never looked like that.




2 years - but how many runs?

I am not knocking the aluminum drum, to say the least, that was the A&A drum and it needs to be cut every so often due to wear, and if you do any type of street driving the billet steel is the way to go.
Posted By: 70blackfish

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 04:33 PM

I like my feet.

so I use a billet drum from A&A trans.
I bought it from CRT
Posted By: Voluster

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 04:34 PM

Quote:


use a billet steel one from CRT , of you plan on driving it on the street... - John is a great guy to deal with.





I did the same thing after running a stock one for 14 years
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 05:13 PM

billet steel here. because it rules. from crt. because john rules.
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 05:19 PM

Quote:

I use a billet steel unit for safety reasons. I've had a billet aluminum one but they are a pain in the butt in terms of oil contamination and they don't last. And don't believe the hype that an aluminum unit will make you go faster either.





Mine did not wear much but it is a giant pain using a steel billet one now if there was a performace difference it did not show up same times this spring?? No other changes!
Posted By: KD800X

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 05:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

this is about 50 runs on an aluminum drum


use a billet steel one from CRT , of you plan on driving it on the street... - John is a great guy to deal with.


After smoking my original 3 disc clutch pack, CRT set me up with a steel drum and 4 disc pack. Works good.




Our A&A Aluminum drum is over 2 years old and the fluid never looked like that.




2 years - but how many runs?

I am not knocking the aluminum drum, to say the least, that was the A&A drum and it needs to be cut every so often due to wear, and if you do any type of street driving the billet steel is the way to go.




We have about 90 passes on the drum. We changed the fluid once last year and started with fresh fluid this year. We were running Mobil 1 fluid and switched to Castrol Synthetic this year, and so far our fluid dosn't look like that... YET! We are also running the A&A red bands in lue of the Kevlar. The Kevlar bands are too agressive and wear the drum quicker.
All I'm saying is we are happy with our aluminum drum so far. The steel drum is a good choice also, no doubt.
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 05:22 PM

yes I think there was more wear the first year with the kevlar band then the next two with the red. Band adjustment is likely critical with an aluminum.
The longer it takes to stop the drum the more wear??
Posted By: rebel

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 05:46 PM

i went straight to the source & bought my billet steel drum from TCS. they're an awesome company to deal with & cheaper too. saved a few bucks dealing direct with them. only wish ICH had this kind of customer service.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 07:28 PM

Quote:

i went straight to the source & bought my billet steel drum from TCS. they're an awesome company to deal with & cheaper too. saved a few bucks dealing direct with them. only wish ICH had this kind of customer service.




Both the TCS and the A+A have their pros and cons , I've had both. I like the TCS , you can fit 5 thick clutches in it because the snap ring groove is higher BUT they put the vent valve in the WRONG place and kolene steels won't fit because the grooves for the steels are a little narrow, I have an EARLY TCS drum.

The A+A has the proper vent placement but is a copy of the stock 4 clutch drum , the plus is it will spin to a higher RPM over the TCS drum and not distort , the drum distorts and it's junk.

But the A+A is a couple hundred more than the TCS .
Posted By: VernMotor

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 09:13 PM

Quote:


both the TCS and the A+A have their pros and cons , I've had both ,Ii like the TCS because you can fit 5 thick clutches in it because the snap ring groove is higher BUT they put the vent valve in the WRONG place and kolene steels won't fit because the grooves for the steels are a little narrow , I have an EARLY TCS drum.

The A+A has the proper vent placement but is a copyu of the stock 4 clutch drum , the plus is it will spin to a higher RPM over the TCS drum and not distort , the drum distorts and it's junk.

But the A+A is a couple hundred more than the TCS .




That great info..I am going to buy one here soon.
Posted By: LA360

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 10:40 PM

If you buy anyone's Aluminium Drum, make sure you run a Red lined band. The Kevlar bands are too aggressive and will wear the drum out quickly.
AL....
Posted By: mopar dave

Re: 727 front drum - 09/28/09 11:06 PM

anyone know if the aluminum drum mancini sells is ant good? there aluminum drum has a steel ring to prevent wear from the band.
Posted By: rebel

Re: 727 front drum - 09/29/09 03:46 AM

Quote:



both the TCS and the A+A have their pros and cons , I've had both ,Ii like the TCS because you can fit 5 thick clutches in it because the snap ring groove is higher BUT they put the vent valve in the WRONG place and kolene steels won't fit because the grooves for the steels are a little narrow , I have an EARLY TCS drum.





my TCS drum is just over a year old & my trans man managed to fit 6 kolenes into this drum. do you think they may have upgraded from your earlier version?
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 727 front drum - 09/29/09 01:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:



both the TCS and the A+A have their pros and cons , I've had both ,Ii like the TCS because you can fit 5 thick clutches in it because the snap ring groove is higher BUT they put the vent valve in the WRONG place and kolene steels won't fit because the grooves for the steels are a little narrow , I have an EARLY TCS drum.





my TCS drum is just over a year old & my trans man managed to fit 6 kolenes into this drum. do you think they may have upgraded from your earlier version?




I talked to someone in the know and he had addressed the issues that my drum has with them and it seemed to be hit and miss as to whether it came in correct or not still. In their defense the drum I have is probably 6 or 7 years old , it was one of their first and I got it for half of what they sell for now. I'll move the vent and you can grind the edges of the kolene steels to make them fit properly. But if I were starting from scratch I'd pony up for the A+A .
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: 727 front drum - 09/29/09 01:35 PM

Quote:

this is about 50 runs on an aluminum drum


use a billet steel one from CRT , of you plan on driving it on the street... - John is a great guy to deal with.




I think this picture and testimony is an example of not knowing
what you're looking at. OEM transmissions produce the same residue,
in complete passenger car applications.

I have/had an A&A aluminum drum in my 727 with way more than 50
passes on it and it has never looked like that.

Both drums have their place but, both solve the safety issues of
the OEM forged powder drum.

I hate for one guy's opinion to mislead potential customers for
the aluminum drum. It's not usually necessary but, is not the
cause for the grey sludge pictured.

Posted By: mk_

Re: 727 front drum - 09/29/09 11:38 PM

The A&A aluminum drum in my car has hundreds of passes on it and looks like it's hardly been used when I take it apart to check things over in the off season.
I change the trans fluid every 40 runs with Dextron 3 and don't ever have the sludge shown in the picture above.
I run a smooth red band from A&A as well and run a Tranzact valve body with a clean 2-3 shift which may help prevent premature drum wear.
Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: 727 front drum - 09/30/09 10:52 AM

and what do you think the silver material on those fingers is? swiss cheese?

it wear from the aluminum drum - plain and simple... i'm not bashing the aluminum drum... if you read my post it states that for a a car that drives on the street you will have to deal with this - that is a fact and that will not change.

this was not form an old tranny - it was a seasonal rebuild and the drum had wear at the band location.

here is that drum before it was cut.


Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 727 front drum - 09/30/09 12:39 PM

Quote:

and what do you think the silver material on those fingers is? swiss cheese?

it wear from the aluminum drum - plain and simple... i'm not bashing the aluminum drum... if you read my post it states that for a a car that drives on the street you will have to deal with this - that is a fact and that will not change.

this was not form an old tranny - it was a seasonal rebuild and the drum had wear at the band location.

here is that drum before it was cut.







Dave , what is this person using for a band ?
Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: 727 front drum - 09/30/09 12:40 PM

IIRC it was the either a red band or the factory blue, I know it was not the kevlar band - this pic was taken over 2 years ago - so it's escaping me right now..

I do know the fluid was changed every 50-75 runs and the drum was serviced every few seasons. This drum had at least 2 seasons ( 6-800 passes) when it was tore down. It needed to be cut after that.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 727 front drum - 09/30/09 12:44 PM

I've never seen a blue band from the factory , but that's not saying they aren't ? either Raybestoes or Borg Warner sold a Blue Plate HP kit for race trans , I had one can't remember if the band was blue but I do know it was kevlar.
Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: 727 front drum - 09/30/09 12:45 PM

I think Mopar sells the blue ones.
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: 727 front drum - 09/30/09 01:42 PM

I can't make out any aluminum in you first picture.

You said 50 runs on it. That's a lot of crap in there for 50 runs.

I wouldn't put aluminum drum in a car that saw street duty either.

It looks like BAD Swiss cheese.

edit: I'd expect the wear pictured on the drum after 600 passes.
Posted By: B3422W5

Re: 727 front drum - 09/30/09 01:48 PM

Quote:

If you buy anyone's Aluminium Drum, make sure you run a Red lined band. The Kevlar bands are too aggressive and will wear the drum out quickly.
AL....





thats what i use.Red band


I got my drum from JPT, he makes them in house,on his own CNC equipment. i think he said he was the first one to do that.

Have had mine over 5 years and still looks great..
Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: 727 front drum - 09/30/09 02:10 PM

Quote:

I can't make out any aluminum in you first picture.

You said 50 runs on it. That's a lot of crap in there for 50 runs.

I wouldn't put aluminum drum in a car that saw street duty either.

It looks like BAD Swiss cheese.

edit: I'd expect the wear pictured on the drum after 600 passes.




the picture of the drum was in fact 6-800 passes...

my last posts has that info in there..
Posted By: Leigh

Re: 727 front drum - 10/01/09 11:48 AM

I don't understand the infatuation with an aluminum drum. People have compared lightened drivetrain componets, and don't report much if any gain. Go with the billet steel unit, and be done with it.
Posted By: MOPARCHAS

Re: 727 front drum - 10/02/09 01:24 AM

what do you guys think about the full metal jacket aluminum steel sleeved drum from TCS
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: 727 front drum - 10/02/09 01:31 AM

If it's a drag only car, get the aluminum or billet steel. If it
will see any street duty, get the billet steel.

If it's a small block, get a 904.

Posted By: mopar dave

Re: 727 front drum - 10/02/09 03:01 AM

i had the same sludge in the bottom of my pan on the last refreshening and i dont have an aluminum drum. i figured it was from the kolenes.
Posted By: Hunted Duck

Re: 727 front drum - 10/02/09 01:27 PM

Does anybody make the billet steel drum for a 904?
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: 727 front drum - 10/02/09 01:55 PM

Quote:

Does anybody make the billet steel drum for a 904?




TCS

I personally wouldn't bother unless, I was 100% sure I needed the
extra clamping of the bigger piston.

I'm using an OEM front drum on my first 904, due to lack of funds.
The next one will be aluminum. 904 drums don't have the front
drum explosions the 727s do, as their mass and diameter are
much less.

727 high gear drum is 3480.5 grams and 7.496" in diameter

904 high gear drum is 2378 grams and 5.876" in diameter

This example shows the 904 drum is 2.43 lbs. lighter and 1.620" less in diameter.



Posted By: Hunted Duck

Re: 727 front drum - 10/02/09 02:29 PM

Thanks Vic. I am currently running a 727 but I am considering going back to a 904. I was wondering if that was a must going to the aftermarket drum.
Posted By: S/ST 3040

Re: 727 front drum - 10/02/09 02:55 PM

Get a 71-up 904 case. They have the bigger diameter servos.

Pre-68 have the wrong input spline count for RACE converters.

I think........76 and later 904s have the steel planetaries for
the 2.45:1 1st gear or get a 2.74:1 1st gear-set and swap.

Valve body from 727 is the same.

Multiple return-spring conversion for high gear drum is a must.

Longer driveshaft is required due to the 904s 3.900" shorter OAL.

1350 slip shafts are made by a few.

I'm no 727/904 specialist but, these are a few things I've found during my switch.
I hope it helps a little.
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: 727 front drum - 10/03/09 08:26 AM

I just rebuilt my 727 with the TCS steel drum. The Kolene steels fit with no issues. The steel drums are heavy when fitted with 5 or 6 clutches. I used the 5 Thick Alto red eagle clutches, kolene steels and 0.062" snap ring. These drums require the rear clutch drum to be beveled to clear the new front clutch drum. I poped for the TCS billit aluminum rear clutch drum that is already machined for clearance. The clearances between the drums was still fairly close when there was no load on the rear clutch diaphram spring. My old diaphram spring was a bit flatter than new, so the clearances were a bit slopy. I spent the $5 for a new diaphram spring and it helped with the front to rear drum clearances. I also used the A&A super sprag, bolted in with all six bolts, although the sprag came with 5 long bolts and one short bolt that did not fit? Because none of the hardware stores carries 1/4"fine thread grade 8 allen head cap screws, I ordered up some (actually a box of 100.) So if anyone needs one of these bolts (I think 1-1/2" long) just ask, I have extras
Posted By: wyoming

Re: 727 front drum - 10/03/09 04:53 PM

Run either the aluminum or steel, both are a big improvement over stock, mines aluminum, didn't hear about steel ones unitil I'd owned it several years, but the stock ones are a safety issue
© 2024 Moparts Forums