CUT THE BULL !

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it was put together whit his proving combo.

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no dyno sheet on this motor. it was put together whit his proving combo. header are 2in hooker fender well .msd 7 al2. fuel punp is aeromovive 1000.i shift @6800b traps about 7000 .compression is 13;1 69cc head. old motor was a 30 over 440 stage 6 heads 76cc .cam was isky 660 [Email]282@50.[/Email] 1050 dom . the same 2in headers.

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why should he have to test it??? he paid 15 g's for a motor that does not perform. If I went from my current 600 ponies to 800 ponies even in the same set up it better do better than run the same number. besides, he all ready put it to the best test there is. He has time slips and they suck. Gonna take more than fiddlefarting around with cam timing to find what he's missing. I hate it when I see what people spend good money for and the results they get. I am done.

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why should he have to test it??? he paid 15 g's for a motor that does not perform. If I went from my current 600 ponies to 800 ponies even in the same set up it better do better than run the same number. besides, he all ready put it to the best test there is. He has time slips and they suck. Gonna take more than fiddlefarting around with cam timing to find what he's missing. I hate it when I see what people spend good money for and the results they get. I am done.

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He is right, time to take it back. I hate to break it to some of you, but a few jets off here, a little timing of there isnt going to cost him what seems to be 150-200hp he is a missing.

The car should be running mid to low 9's. or faster.

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I'm REALLY curious who this "supposed" guru is that doesn't even provide a dyno sheet, for a $15,000 engine? That's just ludicrous! RandyB

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you all have heard of him and its not INDY .

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NOT GOING TO BEATUP ANYONE YET.just looking for ideals or help on what could be worng on my end .and yes i have talked to him bout it. he is not much help.its getting to the point you cant trust anybody.i guest I'm going to take it out. take it a part get some books and try and do it my self.

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NOT GOING TO BEATUP ANYONE YET.just looking for ideals or help on what could be worng on my end .and yes i have talked to him bout it. he is not much help.its getting to the point you cant trust anybody.i guest I'm going to take it out. take it a part get some books and try and do it my self.

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If you don't know how to do it now(build and diagnose) that motor is not the one you should learn on, take it back and see what he will do. Do you have or have access to a leak down meter? If not buy one now before you take the motor out or apart ad leak it down, that will give you documantation for future action in court, if needed I sincerely hope that your engine builder takes care of the problem, give him a chance first and let us know your results BTW, the last motor I built and dyno tested pck up 100 HP from the first pull to the best pull by changing little things like four jet sizes smaller than the carb. company that built them sent them with, changing the timing some for the race gas used and adding velocity stacks with air cleaner on the top You found the car went faster by changing the cam timing, change it some more, don't quit working on the motor in the car until it won't get any faster no matter what you do The track is the best test bed out there, all the rest (dynos, flow benches and so on) are just tools to measure with I have fought the same battle, other cars with the "same" parts where going faster than mine was , some racers won't tell you all of the true story on which parts thier actully using Do the math on the finish line RPM and the calculated MPH versus the time slip MPH, new converrter may not be the best converter for this new combination, I know one NHRA class racer that treid 8 different converters to find the best one, which was right at .03 better than the next better one all eight conveters where from the same, really good, converter company, each converter was a little different and he was the test bed at the track for them Don't give up, test, test and test some more

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727 224 low gear

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NOT GOING TO BEATUP ANYONE YET.just looking for ideals or help on what could be worng on my end .and yes i have talked to him bout it. he is not much help.its getting to the point you cant trust anybody.i guest I'm going to take it out. take it a part get some books and try and do it my self.

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YES I HAVE TALKED TO THE BUILDER ABOUT IT. HE IS NOT MUCH HELP!!!!

This a RED flag. He should be bending over backwards trying to help you get it running right!
Take it back to him and ask him why it's not showing it's potential??
Can he meet you at the track to observe and help tune it? That's a lot of money!! If this is his proven combo he should be proving to you that it has the Horsepower and Torque he told you it would have when he built it!!!
Don

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after sending 15000.00 with a well known mopar builder that said my 500 cid crate motor would make 800 hp. its time for me to do it myself . my 3100 lb a body will only 10.20's. i was going 10.40's with a 30 over 440 with stage six heads that ran on pump gas . here what he sent me. it's 4.38 bore 4.15 crank. cam is 706/690-274\274 @50 .440-1 fully ported. heads are 69.9 cc 13.1 comp. converter is a 5500 coan made for motor. 4.88 dana 60 and coilover ladder bars 13-31 good year slicks 1.43 60ft . please dont tell me call no one . tell me your real world combs and et and what would you do?

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you would think the responsible engine builder would see this and come and give his opinion? I am sure there is another side to the story.

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maybe he is not a member here....

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I would think that the power band between the 2 engines would be a lot different, did you go from a 3.75 stroke to 4.15? It may be the car needs to be changed to suit the new engine, you can be leaving a lot on the table with gear and tire size, I am no drag race expert but I do know in a boat if you replace a 600hp diesel with a 800hp diesel if you don't change the propeller or gear ratio you will have little to no gain at the same rpms

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My brother is trying to help a freind through a similar situation. 1000 HP 572 B-1, small tire A-body, 727 with a 5500 Coan. 60ft's are horrible, car runs 9.60's. The difference is the owner was standing in the dyno room when it made 1000hp.

You opened with "CUT THE BULL" OK, lets do just that.

1. I don't care who the engine builder is, or whether you got all the sheets with numbers on them you thought came with the price tag...THATS ALL BUll!


Most of us have been doing this for a while, If you want to compare apples to apples, we need clear concise information: Parts before. parts now. How many runs? Incrementals? Weather conditions, track conditions? Hood scoop?

I have a buddy with a 473" BBF in a tube chassis T-bird. the engine made 825 HP. I've seen it run 8.87-153 all out, I've also seen it run 9.55-144 all out, with worse conditions, a tighter converter, and taller slicks. Everyone always brags about there best numbers, but everyone who races on a regular basis has days where they are 4 tenths away easily, it doesn't make them think, "I'm yanking the motor tomorrow, it's hurt."

The gear is too deep, which exaggerates the problem of the headers being too small and too long, and personally, there's no way I'm giving the trans and converter a free pass just because they are new...do you still have your old converter?

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If he wont fully work with you at this point----what is there to lose ?
You need to move on anyway it sounds like !


I cant believe he wont stand behind his race engine

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I have nothing in this and I'm not saying the engine
isn't down on power but, I have to disagree.

I don't think it's the engine builder's responsibility to
finish the guy's car. Make reccomendations, yes but,
if the engine is NOT the problem, his job is done.

That's like blaming the tire manufacturer for not being
able to cut a light.

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after sending 15000.00 with a well known mopar builder that said my 500 cid crate motor would make 800 hp. its time for me to do it myself . my 3100 lb a body will only 10.20's....

tell me your real world combs and et and what would you do?

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Hey Jim, what did you run the first time out with the new engine?

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Col. Mustard with the wrong gear... in the rear.

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And, no, it certainly doesn't run like it should based on the changes described. Beyond this, I can't add anything that hasn't already been suggested.

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header are 2in hooker fender well

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493 CID
Includes Hooker Super Comp A-body fenderwells (2" x 43")
versus his dyno headers, stepped 2 to 2-1/8", 32" long (12" + 20")

test A-M1 4150/905 carb/1" open spacer/dyno headers

test B-M1 4150/1050 carb/2" adapter/dyno headers

test C-M1 4500/1050 carb/no spacer/dyno headers

test D-M1 4500/1050 carb/no spacer/ A body 2" headers

rpm--A/tq/hp-----B/tq/hp----C/tq/hp----D/tq/hp
3700---------------------------------------586/413
3800---------------------------------------598/433
3900---------------------------------------607/451
4000-521/397-----------------524/399---619/471 = +72 hp
4100-525/410---519/405----524/409---632/493
4200-555/444---533/426----545/436---631/505
4300-594/486---588/481----599/490---635/520
4400-605/507---594/498----617/517---636/532
4500-611/524---618/530----618/530---640/548 = +18 hp
4600-628/550---623/546----628/550---635/556
4700-632/565---634/567----630/564---635/568 = + 4 hp
4800-628/574---637/582----635/581---632/578 = - 3 hp
4900-630-587---632/589----634/592---626/584
5000-624/594---625/595----632/602---619/589 = -13 hp
5100-623/605---626/608----625/607---619/601
5200-617/611---622/616----624/618---612/606
5300-615/620---621/627----619/625---606/612
5400-609/626---620/637----609/626---599/616
5500-603/631---606/635----612/640---593/621 = -19 hp
5600-591/630---600/640----599/639---586/625
5700-587/637---600/651----597/648---578/627
5800-585/646---592/654----592/654---576/636
5900-578/649---589/661----584/656---560/629
6000-571/653---581/664----580/663---553/632 = -31 hp
6100-565/656---576/670----576/670---550/639
6200-557/658---567/669----560/661---538/635
6300-546/655---561/673----556/669---526/631
6400-541/660---549/669----544/663---516/629
6500-530/655---541/670----540/668---504/624 = -44 hp
6600-518/651---535/672----527/663---494/620 = -43 hp
6700-509/650---523/667----518/661---484/617 = -44 hp
6800--------------514/665----511/662---476/616 = -46 hp

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Thankx Jim, But thinkin about it you were not the best choice to prove my point, ya got your chit together much better than most

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by the lack of any more post, I think EJ440
has taken his motor apart and is sitting in
a $2500 pile of swap meet gems.

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From EJ440,s post history hes not a big talker. The barrage of questions probably scared him away.

He inquired about engine builders before and "Hensly racing" engines was recommended, so maybe that was the engine builder. Hes also about 6 hours away from him,


With the limited info given there is not info to blame any engine builder IMO.

The engine is definately not up to snuff and running like it should. But that could be for a number of reasons as already stated. It could be as simple as two plug wires crossed or some simple timing or jetting issues,etc,etc.

Without anymore quality input/feedback from EJ440 I guess we'll never know.

Back in 95 when I put my new MP 484cam 440 combo together it wouldnt even spin the tires the first time out. After working out the bugs, 11.75 ET

After a few more years of dialing in the combo and a MP 509 cam, 10.47 ET.

My point is, to check all the basics before condeming the motor and its builder. mike

Also while EJ440,s car is not running as it should, she doesnt run bad and it sure looks Nice

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I just got back from droping the car off at my local moparmam. would had him build it from the begging but the machine shops around here just plain suck . he said that the car is just plain lazy. he is going find out whats going on. Im not a motor guy but a paint & body guy . just never got in to building short blocks. and about the converter ? . without a dyno sheet they ask for cam lift, [Email]cam@50[/Email], bore & stroke ,compression, est hp. I did all the things the builder said to do. "I'm not here to BASH OR BAD MOUTH anyone". I have been spending a lot of money and not going any where . tired of beating the hell out of my car and not going any where. just want to unlock my 800 hp .

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To the point it may have nothing to do with the engine build.We have seen our engines that we have built not perform to the level that they should only to find the problem in the tuning,drive train combo or chassis.We even found that sometimes it's the driver that makes a world of difference.We built a 605" hemi that didn't perform for a racer only to find that his race-pak setup(computer)was the culprit.He set his timing at 33/35 locked but the computer would advance it 10* for every thousand RPMs.He was upset with me when I explained it was not the engine but his $3500+ ignition set up,since the mechanical parts of the engine ie: timing chain and gear set/lock distributer cannot advance themselves.Imagine running an engine at 8000 rpm with 35* at 2000 rpm adding 10* for every 1000rpm,that's 95*@8000rpm.But I guess that was my fault... <snip>

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I remember that. Boy did that truck pop going down the track!

That wasn't even the end of his problems. Dropped a valve with another engine builder, with major damage and still hasn't got a 7 second ET if I recall correctly. Which really isn't impressive considering the truck is a Bickle's pro stock chassis/trim.