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Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference??

Posted By: Von

Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/09/09 10:39 PM

Had to take the shaft from our truck to be rebalanced.

I noticed the guy had a sign about aluminum drivelines. Thought Id ask how much, just for the heck of it.

Turns out they have 6 pallets of new aluminum shafts that are for Crown Vics. Bought em from a defunct Ford dealership and got them for way cheap.

They have them in 3.5 and 4 inch diameters.

The price is good at 250 for the shaft, (cut and balanced to what I need) plus the price of joints.

I need another shaft for another car Im slowly putting together and I could use my current shaft for it.

Any track results from swapping to aluminum?

Thanks
Posted By: joshking440

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/09/09 10:40 PM

FYI there are 1350 4" aluminum ends on the bullet for 35 bucks a piece...
Posted By: topfueldart

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/09/09 10:41 PM

Depends on your goals.. I think Mark Williams limits their 3.5 inch Aluminum driveshafts to like 500 horse... So if your planning on making much more than that, your pushing the limit...
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/09/09 10:47 PM

dynotech told me and quicktree that they run aluminum shafts in cars with over 1000hp. moore and moore on here gave a bigs thumbs up to a aluminum shaft after he kept slightly bending a chromemolly shaft i believe
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 12:23 AM

Is this another trick question???

It's not worth ANY ET.......I wouldn't run one unless you're trying to get weight out of the car........
Posted By: Locomotion

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 12:25 AM

I never looked into aluminum driveshafts, but what about differences in wall thickness and are there different grades of aluminum used for different applications?
Posted By: Locomotion

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 12:36 AM

Quote:

Is this another trick question???

It's not worth ANY ET.......I wouldn't run one unless you're trying to get weight out of the car........



Any reduction in weight, especially rotating, is worth "something" in ET's, even if it is not easily seen.
Not sure about durability comparisons, but it may be possible that a broken aluminum driveshaft will produce less collateral damage than a steel one!
Posted By: Sport440

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 12:49 AM

Quote:

I never looked into aluminum driveshafts, but what about differences in wall thickness and are there different grades of aluminum used for different applications?




Aluminum driveshafts can handle some power but using some Crown Vic production shaft units for a racing shaft ??

Id want to know the grade of aluminum and thickness too. Id also feel more safe if they were production F 150 shafts. mike
Posted By: 408Dust

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 12:58 AM

Any reduction in weight, especially rotating, is worth "something" in ET's, even if it is not easily seen.
Not sure about durability comparisons, but it may be possible that a broken aluminum driveshaft will produce less collateral damage than a steel one!



The use of an aluminum shaft has a higher critical speed rating over mild steel.
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 01:45 AM

my dakota is so long that I have a 2 piece shaft from the factory, and I HATE it! I think that's my weakest link right now and would love to toss in an aluminum shaft, but everyoen says no go

I don't really care if it ends up being made out of a solid steel rod! but everyone says it's too long and a 1 piece shaft cannot be made for it.

when I swapped in the 4.56s I noticed a driveshaft vibration now too...when the rear axle had 3.21s I would have had to drive 125mph to feel this vibration, but now the 4.56s and tire diameter change, my driveshaft speed is MUCH higher, and I can feel the vibration at 65mph.

what's the longest shaft anyone has ever used?
Posted By: Sport440

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 02:04 AM

Quote:


what's the longest shaft anyone has ever used?




The max length of the shaft will depend on RPM, Diameter and the strength of the material its made of.

Based on www.markwilliams.com , 60" is about tops for most race units for typical size shafts. mike
Posted By: RedRam

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 02:44 AM

Quote:

my dakota is so long that I have a 2 piece shaft from the factory, and I HATE it! I think that's my weakest link right now and would love to toss in an aluminum shaft, but everyoen says no go

I don't really care if it ends up being made out of a solid steel rod! but everyone says it's too long and a 1 piece shaft cannot be made for it.

when I swapped in the 4.56s I noticed a driveshaft vibration now too...when the rear axle had 3.21s I would have had to drive 125mph to feel this vibration, but now the 4.56s and tire diameter change, my driveshaft speed is MUCH higher, and I can feel the vibration at 65mph.

what's the longest shaft anyone has ever used?


BTDT,
First trip to the track in my old LWB 85 D100 w/493 resulted in a tossed stock shaft.
Started calling around all the big name companies looking for a replacement. Once I told them it was for a LWB truck and it would be occasionally raced they said no deal
All sugested a 2pc or carbon.
I wanted a 1pc, name brand shop referred me to Dynatech in MI.
Called them up and they agreed to build me a MMC shaft that was 67.5" long w/1350 Ujoints. They warned me not to exceed the critical speed of 5900rpm(determined by the length), past that and I am on my own. Only ran 1/8th mile after that with that long shaft.
Switched to a SWB 87, had that shaft shortened to 49.5".
I have total confidence in my Dynatech MMC shaft.
Posted By: qwkmopardan

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 02:56 AM

My Inland Empire aluminum D-shaft in the Demon has been in there since 1996. Same 1350 U-joints. 3000+ passes. On the 4th Ring and Pinion 3rd motor, 7th transmission, same driveshaft, just clean it and put it back in. Better knock on some wood.

Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 02:59 AM

Quote:

My Inland Empire aluminum D-shaft in the Demon has been in there since 1996. Same 1350 U-joints. 3000+ passes. On the 4th Ring and Pinion 3rd motor, 7th transmission, same driveshaft, just clean it and put it back in. Better knock on some wood.





that pretty much ends that debate. NEXT
Posted By: Sport440

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 03:11 AM

Quote:

Quote:

My Inland Empire aluminum D-shaft in the Demon has been in there since 1996. Same 1350 U-joints. 3000+ passes. On the 4th Ring and Pinion 3rd motor, 7th transmission, same driveshaft, just clean it and put it back in. Better knock on some wood.





that pretty much ends that debate. NEXT




Wrong! Was his shaft a production leftover Crown Vic shaft??



I didnt feel this thread was a debate about aluminum shafts.

But just thought it was about some leftover Crown Vic Aluminum shafts of Unknown diameter and grade. mike
Posted By: Dale

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 03:14 AM

I had a Explorer Aluminum shaft in my GTX ran 7.50 and a pair of 7.07 with spray. It held up fine until I put the 4spd then I broke it.

Attached picture 5343944-Picture093.jpg
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 03:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My Inland Empire aluminum D-shaft in the Demon has been in there since 1996. Same 1350 U-joints. 3000+ passes. On the 4th Ring and Pinion 3rd motor, 7th transmission, same driveshaft, just clean it and put it back in. Better knock on some wood.





that pretty much ends that debate. NEXT




Wrong! Was his shaft a production leftover Crown Vic shaft??



I didnt feel this thread was a debate about aluminum shafts.

But just thought it was about some leftover Crown Vic Aluminum shafts of Unknown diameter and grade. mike



your right, i was just trying to be funny
Posted By: Sport440

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 03:30 AM

Im Sorry, Humor is good!! sorrry I missed it mike
Posted By: Joshs68

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 03:42 AM

I have a crown vic aluminum shaft in my charger. supposed to be out of a police car. I paid $10.00 for it and $75.00 to have it cut and balanced. If I remember correctly it is .125 wall tube. It is 3.5" diameter mine has 1330 joints and I run a 1330/7290 solid conversion joint
Posted By: BILLYJAY

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 04:18 AM

Well I have the same question.. i am going to be buying a DS in a few weeks and need some schooling..i looked at the MW chart posted above and will measure in the morning the length as to what i need..i know carbon fiber is the strongest but cant afford that.. which is stronger..Alum,CM,...i will be making in the 900hp range with about 800ft lbs..

Attached picture 5344070-DartNewStance5-3-09016.jpg
Posted By: Madness

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 05:48 AM

I've had an Inland Empire aluminim shaft in my hot rod for about 4yrs., with about 600 miles on it. Not a race car, but pretty hot 470" low deck stroker & a fully comp 727. I do tend to abuse it some. Today I found the rear yoke totally worn out (loose) around the u-joint cups. IE is sending me a new yoke I'll have to swap onto the shaft. Cost from them is around $100 to my door, and I've got to see if any local driveline shops can handle aluminum shafts. I thought these shafts would last longer than this. Should I change to a steel shaft?

Attached picture 5344152-Burnout.jpg
Posted By: qwkmopardan

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 06:28 AM

I have a IE alum. shaft in my 4200# 79 "300" also and have 800+ passes and 15000+ street miles on it and have had no problems with it either. Car runs mid to high 11s 1/4 mile.
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 10:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My Inland Empire aluminum D-shaft in the Demon has been in there since 1996. Same 1350 U-joints. 3000+ passes. On the 4th Ring and Pinion 3rd motor, 7th transmission, same driveshaft, just clean it and put it back in. Better knock on some wood.





that pretty much ends that debate. NEXT




Wrong! Was his shaft a production leftover Crown Vic shaft??



I didnt feel this thread was a debate about aluminum shafts.

But just thought it was about some leftover Crown Vic Aluminum shafts of Unknown diameter and grade. mike



heck I thought it was about ET difference between steel and aluminum
Posted By: jughed

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 10:48 AM

used a 4" alum. shaft with 1350s that came from a '97 Ram. bought it cheap and had it shortened. held up well behind a 600hp 452
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 11:53 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Is this another trick question???

It's not worth ANY ET.......I wouldn't run one unless you're trying to get weight out of the car........



Any reduction in weight, especially rotating, is worth "something" in ET's, even if it is not easily seen.




It's as good as peeing in the ocean to raise the tide.........sure it's doing something, but it's way too small to even worry about.........If the car is overweight for a certain class, then it's something to look into........
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 03:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Is this another trick question???

It's not worth ANY ET.......I wouldn't run one unless you're trying to get weight out of the car........



Any reduction in weight, especially rotating, is worth "something" in ET's, even if it is not easily seen.




It's as good as peeing in the ocean to raise the tide.........sure it's doing something, but it's way too small to even worry about.........If the car is overweight for a certain class, then it's something to look into........



true but when your class racing like Myron is evey .01 helps. bracket racing it will make no difference..
Posted By: deaks

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 08:10 PM

I bought a MW aluminium driveshaft used, sent it to a race shop to be shortened and after doing a test weld, they said the weld wouldn't take, possibly because it had been heat treated.
Mick
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/10/09 09:50 PM

Quote:

I bought a MW aluminium driveshaft used, sent it to a race shop to be shortened and after doing a test weld, they said the weld wouldn't take, possibly because it had been heat treated.
Mick




i just bought a new Mark Williams 3.5 aluminum driveshaft this week, all new 1350 u joints and they told me should see around .0400 from a mild steel shaft.
its 11 lbs lighter than a steel shaft, meaning a lighter rotating mass means faster times.
Russ at mark williams said my 52" aluminum driveshaft will hold up to 7700 rpms at 850 hp no problem. my tranny yoke and pinion end is chemically bonded and not welded and tested.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/11/09 03:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I bought a MW aluminium driveshaft used, sent it to a race shop to be shortened and after doing a test weld, they said the weld wouldn't take, possibly because it had been heat treated.
Mick




i just bought a new Mark Williams 3.5 aluminum driveshaft this week, all new 1350 u joints and they told me should see around .0400 from a mild steel shaft.
its 11 lbs lighter than a steel shaft, meaning a lighter rotating mass means faster times.
Russ at mark williams said my 52" aluminum driveshaft will hold up to 7700 rpms at 850 hp no problem. my tranny yoke and pinion end is chemically bonded and not welded and tested.



Do an accurate back to back to back to back test and post the results........

Quote:

true but when your class racing like Myron is evey .01 helps. bracket racing it will make no difference..





As you know, in class racing he's got to weigh a certain weight.........If he's already at weight, and installs an 11LB lighter driveshaft, he'll have to add 11LBS to his car..........and I guarantee he won't even see .01 gain by going to that, no matter what Professor SuperStockRacer says....."its 11 lbs lighter than a steel shaft, meaning a lighter rotating mass means faster times.".............

Now, like I'd mentioned earlier, if you're overweight, and need to lose the 11LBS, then it's something to think about.........
Posted By: Sport440

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/11/09 04:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

My Inland Empire aluminum D-shaft in the Demon has been in there since 1996. Same 1350 U-joints. 3000+ passes. On the 4th Ring and Pinion 3rd motor, 7th transmission, same driveshaft, just clean it and put it back in. Better knock on some wood.





that pretty much ends that debate. NEXT




Wrong! Was his shaft a production leftover Crown Vic shaft??



I didnt feel this thread was a debate about aluminum shafts.

But just thought it was about some leftover Crown Vic Aluminum shafts of Unknown diameter and grade. mike



heck I thought it was about ET difference between steel and aluminum






Oh yea , I missed that part.

As far as a ET difference.

Any Gain from switchin from a steel to aluminum drive shaft will be Very minimal.

The drive shaft , while being rotational weight gains rpm {slowly] [from a rotational perspective] through the whole timed 1/4 or 1/8 mile event.

With its tight center of rotation, any differences of weight between a aluminum and steel driveshaft of the approximate [same strength] will be in comparison the same as dead weight. IMO mike
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: Aluminum driveshaft, real world difference?? - 07/13/09 04:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

my dakota is so long that I have a 2 piece shaft from the factory, and I HATE it! I think that's my weakest link right now and would love to toss in an aluminum shaft, but everyoen says no go

I don't really care if it ends up being made out of a solid steel rod! but everyone says it's too long and a 1 piece shaft cannot be made for it.

when I swapped in the 4.56s I noticed a driveshaft vibration now too...when the rear axle had 3.21s I would have had to drive 125mph to feel this vibration, but now the 4.56s and tire diameter change, my driveshaft speed is MUCH higher, and I can feel the vibration at 65mph.

what's the longest shaft anyone has ever used?


BTDT,
First trip to the track in my old LWB 85 D100 w/493 resulted in a tossed stock shaft.
Started calling around all the big name companies looking for a replacement. Once I told them it was for a LWB truck and it would be occasionally raced they said no deal
All sugested a 2pc or carbon.
I wanted a 1pc, name brand shop referred me to Dynatech in MI.
Called them up and they agreed to build me a MMC shaft that was 67.5" long w/1350 Ujoints. They warned me not to exceed the critical speed of 5900rpm(determined by the length), past that and I am on my own. Only ran 1/8th mile after that with that long shaft.
Switched to a SWB 87, had that shaft shortened to 49.5".
I have total confidence in my Dynatech MMC shaft.



MMC shaft? what is that?

I'd have to measure my length again, but I seem to remember it being just shy of 70", but that was a quick and dirty measurement.

that 5900 RPM limit, is that for the driveshaft, or your engine? what was the RPM limit for the drive shaft? at an RPM limit of 5900 on the shaft, my 4.56 gears and 29" tires, that puts me at about 110 MPH. I don't see myself ever going faster than that
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