Low deck Indy 540 on the dyno

Low deck 540, Indy aluminum block, Indy 440-1 heads, Indy 400-2 intake. Roller cam but owner didn't have cam card, thinks it is an Indy cam. 1050 carb. Drag race engine. Owner was told it makes 900 hp but we'll see. We're getting it ready to run now, should have numbers later in the week. Engine has some good parts in it, Jesel belt drive, T&D rockers, etc.

900 hp with 440-1 is doable, but a high water mark. This will be interesting, especially all the parts that went into it. If i remember correctly your 514 build left few stones unturned in the quest for NA power at that level .

Exactly. My 514 hit 900 once with Q16 fuel but that engine was very, very well sorted out. I think we had over 100 dyno pulls on it and everything had been touched multiple times. My 514 was dry sump and had a Wilson ported intake and custom built Jesel rocker arms and a ton of stuff like that. I'd be surprised if this engine makes more than 850 hp but who knows, we'll find out. It is a combination that has been together a long time so it is sorted out.

I say 838.

Assuming it's one I saw listed not long ago with car and performance numbers... I'd guess 800. Like has been said it has some pretty nice pieces and still not a bad motor performance-wise!

That is pretty much exactly what I want to build for my car.

Any idea on compression? Will have to be pretty high to get 900.

Awesome.

Agree with previous post, I'd expect a 13:1 compression ratio and up.

Very similar to mine. My heads were old version of indy 440-1 ported by Larry Smith. Same intake with adapter to dominator also ported by Larry. mine made 890 hp at 7200rpm and 755tq at 5900rpm. This one should be around the same. My compression was 13.9.

Only way it gets close is if the heads are fully ported equal to the 345CC versions and the cam is large enough to support the airflow needed to make 900hp. I think its gonna be good but fall somewhere in the 850 range give or take 20.

It does have the CNC 345 heads on it and the cam specs on the old build sheet are 282/290 R113. I'm not sure if that is an old Indy cam or not. Customer's carb is a Holley 80672 1050 three circuit. It was way too rich so we swapped on the dyno room 1050.

Curious to see how this one does. My low deck 528 Indy block and 440-1 heads ran well in my Demon. Best of 5.43 at 125mph at 2825lbs. We are currently in the process of making it a 540 after the 20 year old eagle crankshaft gave up on me at the Mopar race in Norwalk last fall.

282/290 on 113 LSA sounds good to me. With at least 13.0 CR, it should make good power 840-875
Close to Indy cam specs, but not a match.

What size dia & length are the dyno headers. That will affect things too.

Andy, patiently waiting for an update . I assume something unexpected is holding up testing?

That engine didn't do as well as expected. It made 815 hp at 6900 RPM. The vacuum pump that the customer brought was wore out so it didn't pull much vacuum. Once he gets his pump rebuilt the engine will probably make around 825. Not sure why the power was down. The parts he had seemed capable of more. I'm not a fan of using a 4500 to 4150 adapter on a 400-2 intake but the customer was told that the necked down intake made more power. I would've liked to see what a ported 400-3 intake would do on the engine but we didn't have one to try.

One interesting footnote is that we're currently running a 428 inch SBC on the dyno that is making 795 hp. Cam specs are almost identical between the two engines, and we're using the same 1050 Dominator dyno carb. The 540 Mopar had less rocker arm ratio than the 428 SB so that could've been part of the issue.

Next motor on the dyno is a 540 inch BBC with very similar specs. Same compression, cam specs, carb, etc. It will be interesting to see how it does. I think the heads on the BBC are bigger so that might work in its favor.

Always going to make more power with a dedicated 4500 intake. Seen it a number of times for sure.

Frankly, the 815 seems about right to me for that combo.
On the dyno here, a similarly built 572 with 14:1 made 878……. So at the same hp/ci a 540 would be 829.

A 14:1 542 with 572-13’s and the 440-3x made 860.

-1/345’s flow about 380 on my bench.

In the BBC world, those would be pretty mediocre flow numbers for heads getting used on a 540” build.

What was the peak TQ, and at what rpm?

The Mopar 540 torque peak was 700 ft-lbs at 5700 rpm. I bet his truck will be faster than it was last season even though the engine is making a lot less power than he was told.

Sounds like he should look into getting his carb reworked.

Yes, his carb needs to be reworked. It is a 3 circuit Holley that hasn't been modified and the intermediate circuit floods the engine at certain throttle positions. Evidently it runs okay from him at the track because of his two step and then being WOT down the track, but it was super rich on the dyno when we were trying to start the pulls. But the engine showed some signs of being run rich so we told him to either buy a two circuit, or to get someone to rework his carb.
The dyno carb is a box stock Holley 1050 XP. It works great on every engine we use it on. Usually don't even need to change jets in it.

I had problems footbraking 3 circuit Dominators, and always converted them to 2 circuit. Not that big of a deal to do.

Things that come to mind are what rocker ratio, the lash amount and intensity of rhe cam, thickness of the rings, and the effect of the intake/adapter combo, and how much room for improvement there might be in those areas?
My first 440-1 build after porting the heads made over 840 hp with a similar cam but injected methanol. So i bet the things i mentioned may be holding it back from 850 hp.

I don't think it would require much work to bump this engine up to 850 hp but the owner didn't seem interested. The engine goes in a pickup that he drag races and he runs low 9's or high 8's and is happy with it.
From what I've seen over the years only about 5% of the customers are actually interested in finding more power after a dyno session. Most customers just want to get the engine home so they can put it in the car and get back to racing.

Did you guys do any work on that engine…….or was it just there for a dyno test?

Is it just me or are those dyno headers kind of small for 850-900 hp?

Did the owner at least have a few ignition timing settings tested?
The combination 4150 intake with carb adapter to 4500 may have limited top rpm power capability at 540 CID.
It would be interesting to see how the HP held up past peak. It might benefit from a higher shift point.

That is a good point. The 4150 to 4500 trick might work great on a 440 to 500 inch engine but not so great at 540 inches. I tested it on my 514 and the best intake for that engine was a 4500 intake. The Super Victor worked best for me. The 440-3 was okay, the 440-3x didn't make more power.

I think all runs were made at 35 degrees. I don't recall changing the timing on it.

It got rings and bearings, upgraded to a belt drive, fixed some issues. I think the short block was built by Indy originally but I might be wrong.

Most customers don't want to spend the extra dyno money. Also, there is zero reason to test stuff that doesn't fit the car. Why test carb spacers, if you don't have room for them? What good are dyno headers if they don't fit your chassis, other than they fit the dyno?

Just for comparison, had a Chevy 540 on the dyno today and it made 920 hp. Very similar engine to the 540 Mopar. This BBC is also all aluminum, similar compression, similar cam specs, single 4 bbl intake using the same 1050 dyno carb, both were wet sump with vacuum pump, both used dyno headers, both use Jesel belt drive, crank trigger with MSD, etc. The BBC heads are just that much better. This engine uses Brodix Big Brodie 3x heads. I think they are 365 cc with a big rectangular intake port. The intake port is so big it requires a special gasket and you have to buy the Brodix intake if want it to fit out of the box.

Those BB3 Heads are no joke! Brodix moved the valves around some (still 24°) to accommodate a larger valve without shrouding...they make power!

This is the first time I'd seen these heads. I figured the engine would make 850 hp since the compression wasn't that high and the cam was an off brand. But when we opened the throttle the engine started to howl and the needle spun on the HP gauge.

Funny thing about this engine is that the customer who brought it in bought it at the track from a guy who was pissed at poor performance. Guy was so mad he sold the engine for $10K at the track. Probably cost close to $40K to build an engine like this with all new parts.

We didn't have the heads off the engine so I wasn't able to look them over carefully. The Brodix website says the 366 cc version flow 423 cfm @ 0.800 lift. The 380 cc version flows 440 cfm. I think this engine has the 366 cc version since the ends of the heads are stamped 366. But there isn't any other information on the heads so I'm not sure if that is a cc stamp, or if it some random date stamp or foundry mark.

Anyone know what a Ray Barton Hemi would cost? And what power they make

Years ago, there was a 'Cuda local to here that had a BBC in it, people gave the owner a hard time about it. At a car show a few of us were looking at it and some were not pleased with the swap, the guy's wife or his GF, not sure which, said something like, we wanted to go fast but had enough money to build a car or just build an engine.

Not the first time I have seen or heard of 900+ hp BBC motors that are not running ET's according to weight and HP.

I drove one last year that was 900 hp and 300 lbs lighter than my crate and ran the exact same ET.

Sometimes big honking carbs, intakes heads and header pipes and dyno numbers don't equate to quick ETS at the track.

Made a lot of noise though!

I'm not sure exactly what the previous owner was upset about but the current owner is going to be happy at the track. He has a Monte Carlo that currently runs in the nines with a 780 hp big block. This engine will be a little lighter due to the aluminum block, and it has 140 more hp. He runs in a 9.00 to 10.50 bracket class and he wants to have the most MPH at the stripe so he is stepping up to this engine.

A BBF that is similar would probably make more again. I don't know what the Chrysler engineers were thinking when they designed the BBM factory heads, but it wasn't performance. Even a lot of the aftermarket stuff isn't great, compared to their Ford and GM counterparts.

Maybe, depends on the Ford and the heads. FE Fords don't make a lot power, but the 385 series can make big power. I have a 521 Ford with Kaase heads that is ready to go on the dyno. I think it will make around 850 hp. The heads can make a lot more power but there aren't really good intakes available for that engine. Kaase has built some bigger SR-71 engines that make a ton of power so it can be done.

The Mopar BB is basically a truck engine. That is why it has the tall deck, tall pistons, heavy skirt, tiny ports, etc. The Mopar engineers could've built a low deck 451 or 470 with MW heads back in the early 70's and kicked Chevy to the curb but they didn't do it. A low deck 470 with MW heads and a big 4bbl would've been surprised a lot of street guys back in 1972!

I have always said Mopar should have built a 451.....

I have never owned a 440 block. My 502 is a low deck.

Or better yet, a 500 inch low deck, with a set of modified high port max wedge heads that would accept an RB max wedge intake, preferably 2 4bbl. Add 1.7 rockers maybe? A motor like that could be built to 500 hp without breaking a sweat. And it would have TORQUE!

If Brodix made the exact same heads to bolt onto a big block Chrysler block people would be afraid to run them because “they would lose torque.”

In fact they would come on here and probably get advised not to use them too.

B/RB std port heads were designed in 1956 and 1957 for 350 and 361 cubic inch engines, and designed to make good part throttle torque and response for use in station wagons and big cars. Chrysler engineers designed a port for performance use at 400+ cubic inches. Its the Max Wedge port, and again, most people seem to be afraid its “too big.”

Theres also the 426 Hemi port, thats a pretty good one I’ve heard.

There is a pretty big difference between most of the engines designed in the mid/late 50s, like the standard B/RB, Buick Olds Pontiac, Ford FE, etc and those designed in the 60s. Hemi in 64, Big Block Chevy in 63/64, Ford 335 and 385, etc. The later stuff all has much better heads and stronger blocks.

The Brodix 540 made pretty good torque. 720 ft lbs @ 6000 rpm and it held on pretty well. The car it is going in has a 6200 stall converter and the guy shifts around 7400 rpm so it should stay in the powerband going down the track. He is thinking it might run an 8.90 once he gets it back to the track. The car runs low 9's now with a 780 hp iron block engine.

This pull was with a 1050 carb. The airflow turbine shows that the engine is using about 1100 cfm so we might try a bigger carb to see if that picks up some power. On the last pull the oil pressure started to drop so the pan needs to come off to see if the oil pump is bad. Always something!