TF270 Heads....HP

With a typical stroker build, a real cam, what kind of HP are you guys getting out of these? Just trying to see what runs better, the Indy of the TF's.....

The TF270 heads make 700 hp with typical bolt on parts and pump gas compression. They'll make 800 hp with really good parts and some careful tuning. If you want more than 800 hp then you need to switch to a -1 type head or a 572-13.

My feeling is that the 440-1 head, on a suitably sized short block, is the “easy button” for getting past the 800hp mark.

I also feel that the added port volume of the EZ 295 and 325 are going to have more potential as the power levels start to exceed 700hp...........with the bigger heads proving their worth as the cubes/desired rpm/power go up.

However, for around 500” and say up to say 725-ish hp, dollar for dollar it’s going to be hard to beat a TF270.

The Indy heads seem to wake up some with porting, and I've seen a few people change the 295/325 intake valve to 2.25 to pick up some additional flow. Would the Trick Flow 270's benefit any from porting or are they pretty much tapped out since they started as the 240 casting?

For a wedge with stock exhaust port location it doesn't sound like there are any better options than the max wedge sized EZ's, or the TF270.

Ootb TF270 on pump gas 713 hp/709 torque. Street car motor.

It should probably be mentioned that in “ootb” form, the TF heads are consistently good.

The Indys often should really get some tweaking to the valve job and the way the valve job is blended into the bowls and chambers.
In one extreme example, I had some SR 295’s that picked up over 30cfm on the exhaust side by re-cutting the seats and blending.

Last I heard Indy cancelled the 325 heads due to casting control problems...is this still true Dwayne?

I haven’t heard that, but I’ve only ever sold I think 3 sets of EZ325’s..........and one of those sets had some issues.

Todd Marsh might have that info.

I think a dyno comparo between some EZ295’s vs the TF270’s would be interesting.
But I also think a test between ootb EZ295’s vs “prepped” EZ295’s would be interesting.

Just not interesting enough to put in the effort to actually do the test.

I've built race engines with both the 270 heads and the EZ 325 heads. The EZ325 heads make more power than the TF270 heads, but the EZ325 heads can be trouble down the road with water leaks. I was told that Indy stopped selling them but I haven't confirmed that with Indy. The last engine I did with Indy parts was a bit of a hassle. It took several tries before the parts all worked properly. We've done a lot of engines with TF heads and they always work right out of the box. Only exception is fitting the rocker arm shafts. Some rocker arms require the stands on the TF heads to be machined for clearance.

If a guy is building a street car I always recommend the TF heads. Race car probably gets Indy heads. Street/strip car with 700 to 750 hp I'd go TF270. Race car shooting for 800 hp I'd go Indy -1 heads.

I don't think I've ever used a set of EZ295. They might be a good matchup against the TF270 heads. Either one should make 750 without any trouble if the rest of the parts are up to the task.

I wouldn't bother spending any money trying to port a set of 270 heads. If you want to spend money to make more power spend it on the intake. There are no really nice OOTB 700 to 800 hp intake manifolds for MW ports. The Super Victor is pretty good but not great, the Indy stuff is okay but needs work to be great. I've heard the new TF intake is good but I haven't seen one yet. They made a few and then ran out.

That's great info, thanks Dwayne and Andy. It sounds like the hot ticket would be to send either the new TF MW intake or the Indy 440-3X to Wilson to get cleaned up.

Looking on Indy's site, they don't have pricing for the 325's listed anymore. They do list the EZ, EZ-1, and EZ-295 though, along with the SR, -1, 572, 600 and predator heads.

Best Machine built a 572 last year for a customer of mine. It had EZ325 heads and it made 860 hp on the dyno. It was an EFI, dry sump, Jesel belt drive, T&D rocker arm type engine so not your average bracket racer stuff. Nice motor, probably would've made over 900 hp with 572-13 heads but the customer was constrained to stock port locations.
Engine also had an Indy aluminum block and the intake was ported by Wilson. Big buck engine, probably had close to $40,000 in it by the time they were done.

That's a really interesting build, I can't say I've seen any max effort 572's with standard exhaust port heads. If that was dialed back a bit with a conventional wet sump and TF270's (assume the TF's are giving up 40 cfm over prepped 325's?), what would you expect that motor to make? 750-ish with a lower HP peak because the ports really aren't big enough for a 572?

Depends on how much power a person wants to make. I don't think there would be any problem making 800 hp with a 572 inch shortblock and TF270 heads if a person is willing to do some testing. My old 514 made 700 hp when I first put it together with EZ heads. After a couple of years of dyno testing it broke 900 hp. It took us a while to figure out the correct combination of parts but eventually we cracked the code.
I was able to get close to 800 hp with a pump gas 470 that had TF270 heads on it so I think it would be fairly easy to hit 800 hp with a race gas 572. Just need the right cam and a good intake manifold.

What would be a good cam for a 500 ish TF270 700+hp engine?
Same question for a 572 Indy head 800+ hp?

What do you consider a " real cam"?

Cams would be different for different applications.

I wouldn’t use the same cam for an 1800lb dragster and a 4000lb street strip wagon.

Good point. Let's say your typical 3000 - 3600 lb street/strip, NSS or bracket car with appropriate converter, gear and tire, Not a tube car or a tuna boat.

TF heads are very sensitive to cam timing since they flow so well at lower lifts. It is easy to over cam them, I've done it a few times even though I should know better. For my pump gas 470 a 271 was too big but a 264/268 was just about perfect. I don't remember the cam in the 572, probably something in the 280/290 range.

I did have a customer try the 264/268 in a street car. It was a 505 with TF270 heads that made 700 hp on the dyno, but the idle was so rough that it took several hours of tuning before he could even drive the car. Fortunately it was an EFI car so we were able to tune it. Not so sure a carb and distributor could have been modified enough to work.

Basically, for a “race car”, meaning 5000+ converter and gears to match, the 700hp 500 would be in the 270’s and .700 or so lift(something that could use the TF springs).

The 800+hp big cube Indy head combo would be in the 280’s and .800-ish lift.
That will actually get you over 900 with a nice high CR bottom end and good heads.



That cam is under 270@.050 and under .700 lift.

most here would be talking roller I imagine . I run a solid flat tappet for reasonable results with these heads on both my 440 and 505

Tex

I think if you can't make ~700 with any head that flows what a TF 270 or comparable head flows at 500" it's usually due to the owner being afraid to put decent compression in it. The big ports work well if you have enough "bang" to work the ports hard enough.

You don't really need to over cam most of the Aftermarket MW heads to still make decent power (they can flow more at .550 lift than most standard ports do at .650-700) but you can damn-sure under compress them.

A lot of people "want the 270's but they're afraid to run the 11-12:1 the aluminum head needs, IMO many of them would be happier with a 10.5:1 625-650 horse 240 or other standard port that they could easily run pump gas in any weather conditions. If the torque is there through the middle (especially in an Automatic mid 3 geared 3700+ pound b-e body) and they'ed rarely even be able to tell the difference because the Bigger ports don't really start pulling away harder until 4800-5000 anyway. probably better for them to build the 240 port head and run their 10.5:1 and get the neck snapping torque through the middle...and if they really want 700-800, throw a 250 kit on it and jet it small/safe. And the majority of guys we see building these strokers won't blink at dropping 5K into the top end .... but they still expect to run around with the same factory 8 3/4 rear the car had with 1/2 or less horsepower.

I never built an 800 hp BB wedge, though I greatly respect those of you that have.

But these days 800+ for a N/A race motor is easier with a turbo small block or the other brand of motor you could build 2 of for the price of a built B/RB.

And for about the same $$$ once you go to an aftermarket block you could about build a comparable Hemi ...and that would allow you to get a lot bigger Percentage of your money back for it if /when you sell it....And that's probably the main reason I would shy away from a high dollar B/RB race motor.

For me the BB mopar wedge is a torque motor and a great street or street/strip engine, It's cool and nostalgic and all those other great things. But unless you're going aftermarket block anything much over 670-700 hp it's too big a gamble/time bomb for my $$$.

20-25 years ago hardly anybody split a B/RB stock block, and if you did you usually had a really bad tune in the motor.....but that the time was before we had the heads capable of moving the torque peak rpm way past the block's reasonable structural limits.

There's a reason Ma put those cross-bolted mains in their race motors...just my opinion only.

I love the fact we can get 360-400+ cfm heads for our beloved big blocks, it's just over the hot street level of performance I just think (at least for me) at that kind of level there's a lot of other options.

I live near Concord N.C and race shops still have plenty of old NASCAR mopar 358" motors that will handle boost and over 1000 HP

Big power wedges are easier than ever to build but guys don't realize the rest of the drivetrain is wholly inadequate at those levels! Even tire choice has to be re-thought as a hard street radial is like driving on ice.

As you mentioned, nitrous makes it easy to have a tractable, easy to drive engine at 600-700 hp and then add a 200-ish shot to wake it up.